in a lightsaber combat match vader would own him with form V because vaders strength is superior, remember dooku getting blown back by anakins shien form? vaders physical strength is far greater than anakins and still able to keep his agility.
the only way for dooku to win is to run far enough and strike vader with lightning and merry christmas vaders fried, cuz vader cant stand electricity when it short circuts his life support
and makashi is one of the worst form to use on a 1v1 match with some 1 using shien/djem so
Vader's advantages:
He uses a form V variant, which is the most effective against Makashi users.
Vader has partially lightsaber resistant armor, and with the low powered strikes from Makashi, only a well placed hit will do damage.
Much more physical strength.
Speed?
On a side note: Makashi takes concentration to duel, that's why form V throws it off with powerful swings. If you have to concentrate to duel, then, I doubt that he could fire off any lightning that would do any real damage to Vader with his free hand. Even if he could, Vader could block it with his saber, or send Dooku flying back (with or without a free hand, Vader has used powerful telekenisis and grip before with no gestures), along with any lightning he shoots out.
Vader has also shown us more with force attacks.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
[B]Vader's advantages:
He uses a form V variant, which is the most effective against Makashi users.
Yes, but Dooku uses the ultimate duelling form and has mastered it to the highest possible degree. I see your point but this alone will not ensure a victory.
Vader has partially lightsaber resistant armor, and with the low powered strikes from Makashi, only a well placed hit will do damage.
I doubt it. Yes Vaders armour is resistant but that doesnt mean that Dooku's attacks are going to be useless. Also Makshi excels at precise movements anyway. Point moot.
Much more physical strength.
Cant argue that. But again it doesnt guarantee a victory. almost all the forms have more strength than Makashi because it lacks the kinetic energy. However almost all the forms are useless againt a proficient makashi master like Dooku.
Speed?
I would say Makashi has more speed. As it only uses small parries and thrusts it is naturally going to be quicker than a form which has to use large, sweeping swings.
On a side note: Makashi takes concentration to duel,
OMG!! Concentration!! Correct me if im wrong but dont all forms require a degree of concentration from the user. So your argument collapses.
Vader has also shown us more with force attacks.
Examples? I disagree. Dooku has pulled down rooves, thrown large metal generators, ripped out steel balconies, pwned people with force lightning and lifted/choked ROTS Kenobi while fending off Skywalker - and that is only from the movies.
Originally posted by ESB Vader
not while he is fighting rampant, anakin ROTS is far weaker than OT vader and yet dooku got smacked by form v, vader could get into a saber lock and throw poles at dooku.
And who's to say Dooku wouldn't do the same thing? How is this even a real point?
dooku has never been shown in the movies to use force powers while dueling, he might have in the comics
No one has ever been shown to use Force powers while in the middle of a strike. In a saber duel, during a saberlock or a brief opening - Dooku has used Force powers quite a few times. In the initial duel with Kenobi, he Force pushed him back. Later on, when Kenobi got back up, he took him out with the Force as soon as Kenobi brought a downward strike on Dooku's lightsaber. He's also used Force lightning on Sora Bulq during their duel.
I wouldn't agree Dooku would win, however, I'm just saying whatever point you're trying to get past with this post utterly fails, and is pretty meaningless.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Yes, but Dooku uses the ultimate duelling form and has mastered it to the highest possible degree. I see your point but this alone will not ensure a victory.I doubt it. Yes Vaders armour is resistant but that doesnt mean that Dooku's attacks are going to be useless. Also Makshi excels at precise movements anyway. Point moot.
Cant argue that. But again it doesnt guarantee a victory. almost all the forms have more strength than Makashi because it lacks the kinetic energy. However almost all the forms are useless againt a proficient makashi master like Dooku.
I would say Makashi has more speed. As it only uses small parries and thrusts it is naturally going to be quicker than a form which has to use large, sweeping swings.
OMG!! Concentration!! Correct me if im wrong but dont all forms require a degree of concentration from the user. So your argument collapses.
Examples? I disagree. Dooku has pulled down rooves, thrown large metal generators, ripped out steel balconies, pwned people with force lightning and lifted/choked ROTS Kenobi while fending off Skywalker - and that is only from the movies.
No, but it helps.
Luke swung harder than Dooku would in Episode 5, and it barely did anything on a direct attack.
Still, it helps.
Vader seems faster, though, judging from his candid appearance in Crimson Empire.
Way to ignore my post...
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=82&page=14
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=68 >
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=69
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=86&page=08
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=86&page=19
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=69&page=13
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=69&page=15
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=69&page=18
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=69&page=22
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=66&page=06
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=88
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=89
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=97
Also: Is this canon?
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=153&page=23
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=153&page=24
Originally posted by Advent
And who's to say Dooku wouldn't do the same thing? How is this even a real point?No one has ever been shown to use Force powers while in the middle of a strike. In a saber duel, during a saberlock or a brief opening - Dooku has used Force powers quite a few times. In the initial duel with Kenobi, he Force pushed him back. Later on, when Kenobi got back up, he took him out with the Force as soon as Kenobi brought a downward strike on Dooku's lightsaber. He's also used Force lightning on Sora Bulq during their duel.
I wouldn't agree Dooku would win, however, I'm just saying whatever point you're trying to get past with this post utterly fails, and is pretty meaningless.
whats to stop vader from beating dooku into a submission? like he did to bol chatak?
the only way for dooku to win is to fry vader with lightning before the fight begins.
in a lightsaber match because during a match you cant execute powers, vader would own him with djem so, if dooku backs far enough he can use lightning to fry vader, or vader could use crush which he did demonstrate in the end of ROTS and Eaw
but you know you can defend crush by creating a shield
Originally posted by ESB Vader
whats to stop vader from beating dooku into a submission? like he did to bol chatak
Oh god, here we go with the "what's to say" this and that. Well, what's to say Dooku doesn't slice at Vader and then Force lightning the f*ck (not that there is any) out of Vader like he did to Sora Bulq? Or what's to say he doesn't stab Vader through the shoulder like he did Master Tholme?
Actually, no. You know what? I frankly don't care. The point you made previously held no water, if you stopped to read my post instead of rant and think you have a chance of proving me wrong - then you'd know that. I made specifically clear I don't think Dooku would win, but the points you tried to get across were meaningless.
the only way for dooku to win is to fry vader with lightning before the fight begins.
And I care why exactly? Perhaps you missed the end of my post, though I can't see how as I didn't just add it in, but here's for refreshing:
Originally posted by Advent
I wouldn't agree Dooku would win, however, I'm just saying whatever point you're trying to get past with this post utterly fails, and is pretty meaningless.
Maybe you need to put on your super spectacles, old chap? Get a bit of focal adjustments made? Your points in that post prior to this held no value.
in a lightsaber match because during a match you cant execute powers,
Yes, you can use Force powers during a fight. We've seen it happen twice in succession, and a few other times. You cannot apply Force powers during a strike, but - for example - if your opponent's footing slips up (Vader's did against ROTJ Luke) or leaves an opening, you clearly can. Sora Bulq, Obi-Wan Kenobi (twice), and obviously more have been victim to that; although, I do doubt Dooku would even use Force powers during a match against a near equal, possibly even greater opponent. Nonetheless, your point is still wrong.
vader would own him with djem so, if dooku backs far enough he can use lightning to fry vader, or vader could use crush which he did demonstrate in the end of ROTS and Eaw
My Buddha, I really don't care. Read my post. It has nothing to do with who wins and who loses, your points were just ridiculous and applied to both sides, hence my interference.
Like, really. Are you trying to make a case for Vader or something? Because guess what? I don't give a shit. I'm not arguing winners and losers, I'm arguing plainly that the previous points made applied to both sides, and didn't make sense.
but you know you can defend crush by creating a shield
I really could care less, you can also just plainly move out of sight, but that doesn't matter, nor do I care.
I say Tyranus wins but doesn't own. Vader's 80% of Sidious, right? And Yoda's more-or-less tied with Sidious, so OT Vader's about 80% of Yoda. Judging from the duel between Yoda and Dooku in AOTC I'd say Dooku's a fair bit more than 80% of Yoda, likely 90% of Yoda. And when they dueled in Dark Rendezvous Dooku even cut Yoda with his lightsaber before he fled. Dooku definately has Vader in saber dueling - Dooku being an 8, Vader I would also assume is an 8 though a on the lower side on an 8. In Force Skills Vader likely has Tyranus, thoigh only by a little. Overall I say the Count wins. I can't imagine Vader toying with AOTC Kenobi and still pwning him so badly as Tyranus did, or fighting ROTS Anakin and Kenobi 2 on 1 and taking Anakin out before being defeated by Skywalker. On the otehr hand, Tyranus would beat ANH Kenobi without to much trouble, imo, and he could never get hurt by ESB Luke like Vader was, not even a little but. And I could never see Tyranus losing to ROTJ Luke under any circumstances. So I go with Tyranus.
Originally posted by ESB Vader
vader could get into a saber lock and throw poles at dooku.
😆 😆 😆 WTF!!!
dooku has never been shown in the movies to use force powers while dueling, he might have in the comics
Well then we clearly watched different movies. In AOTC Dooku uses the force to bring down the generator on top of the duo while fighting Yoda. In ROTS wesee him pwn Kenobi with the force while fighting Anakin. Next time get your facts straight.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
No, but it helps.Luke swung harder than Dooku would in Episode 5, and it barely did anything on a direct attack.
Still, it helps.
Vader seems faster, though, judging from his candid appearance in Crimson Empire.
Way to ignore my post...
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=82&page=14
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=68 >
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=69http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=86&page=08
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=86&page=19http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=69&page=13
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=69&page=15
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=69&page=18
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=69&page=22http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=66&page=06
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=88
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=89
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=97Also: Is this canon?
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=153&page=23
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=153&page=24
Lol, im not going to read through every single link. However I looked at the first one and found it totally irrelevant. Vader was fighting some sort of dog - completely different to a duelling situation.
Originally posted by Advent
Oh god, here we go with the "what's to say" this and that. Well, what's to say Dooku doesn't slice at Vader and then Force lightning the f*ck (not that there is any) out of Vader like he did to Sora Bulq? Or what's to say he doesn't stab Vader through the shoulder like he did Master Tholme?Actually, no. You know what? I frankly [b]don't care
. The point you made previously held no water, if you stopped to read my post instead of rant and think you have a chance of proving me wrong - then you'd know that. I made specifically clear I don't think Dooku would win, but the points you tried to get across were meaningless.And I care why exactly? Perhaps you missed the end of my post, though I can't see how as I didn't just add it in, but here's for refreshing:
Maybe you need to put on your super spectacles, old chap? Get a bit of focal adjustments made? Your points in that post prior to this held no value.
Yes, you can use Force powers during a fight. We've seen it happen twice in succession, and a few other times. You cannot apply Force powers during a strike, but - for example - if your opponent's footing slips up (Vader's did against ROTJ Luke) or leaves an opening, you clearly can. Sora Bulq, Obi-Wan Kenobi (twice), and obviously more have been victim to that; although, I do doubt Dooku would even use Force powers during a match against a near equal, possibly even greater opponent. Nonetheless, your point is still wrong.
My Buddha, I really don't care. Read my post. It has nothing to do with who wins and who loses, your points were just ridiculous and applied to both sides, hence my interference.
Like, really. Are you trying to make a case for Vader or something? Because guess what? I don't give a shit. I'm not arguing winners and losers, I'm arguing plainly that the previous points made applied to both sides, and didn't make sense.
I really could care less, you can also just plainly move out of sight, but that doesn't matter, nor do I care. [/B]
and what are you trying to argue with me? i hardly giva shit
darth sith do you even know why vader lost to luke? because he underestimated luke as dooku underestimated anakin
lightsaber = vader
force = tyrannus if he striked with lightning first
saber and force = either one of them depending on the situation
Originally posted by ESB Vader
and what are you trying to argue with me? i hardly giva shit
Are you like, blind? I made it clear about fifteen times that I was arguing your points you made in the initial post I replied to were meaningless, applied to both sides, etc. That's that I was "arguing", rather just correcting.
Need to get your spectacles examined?
I say Tyranus wins but doesn't own. Vader's 80% of Sidious, right? And Yoda's more-or-less tied with Sidious, so OT Vader's about 80% of Yoda. Judging from the duel between Yoda and Dooku in AOTC I'd say Dooku's a fair bit more than 80% of Yoda, likely 90% of Yoda. And when they dueled in Dark Rendezvous Dooku even cut Yoda with his lightsaber before he fled. Dooku definately has Vader in saber dueling - Dooku being an 8, Vader I would also assume is an 8 though a on the lower side on an 8. In Force Skills Vader likely has Tyranus, thoigh only by a little. Overall I say the Count wins. I can't imagine Vader toying with AOTC Kenobi and still pwning him so badly as Tyranus did, or fighting ROTS Anakin and Kenobi 2 on 1 and taking Anakin out before being defeated by Skywalker. On the otehr hand, Tyranus would beat ANH Kenobi without to much trouble, imo, and he could never get hurt by ESB Luke like Vader was, not even a little but. And I could never see Tyranus losing to ROTJ Luke under any circumstances. So I go with Tyranus.
1.) Tyrannus is 80% of Sidious. Mace Windu is about 90% of Sidious, and Anakin is 85% of Sidious. ESB Vader and ROTS Anakin are almost equal, with Anakin being slightly greater. Therefore, Vader beats Dooku.
2.) Force: Tyrannus has Lightning, Choke, Push and Pull
Force: Vader has Force Hand Block (lol that's not the name though), Super Choke, strong Push and Pull, and superhuman strength.
Tyrannus might be better in the Force but his Lightning isn't too powerful, since AOTC Obi-Wan fended it off quite easily. If Vader can connect his Force Choke, Tyrannus is going to be crushed.
3.) Saber skills: Vader has mastered several lightsaber forms, including mastery of one-handed Force + Djem So. Dooku's good with Makashi, but Vader overpowers him.
4.)
or fighting ROTS Anakin and Kenobi 2 on 1 and taking
Anakin out before being defeated by Skywalker.
He took on both of them because both were using totally different forms and weren't connected. Anakin couldn't use his Djem So fury without slicing Obi-Wan. It was only by taking Obi-Wan out of the picture was Anakin able to show his potential. Vader could take on both of them. His one-hand Djem So can block the Jedi's sabers and then he can use his Choke to throw Obi-Wan away.
5.) Vader lost to ROTJ Luke because
- Vader was trying to seduce Luke, not kill him.
Luke was using the Dark Side with great strength.
1.) Tyrannus is 80% of Sidious. Mace Windu is about 90% of Sidious, and Anakin is 85% of Sidious. ESB Vader and ROTS Anakin are almost equal, with Anakin being slightly greater. Therefore, Vader beats Dooku.
2.) Force: Tyrannus has Lightning, Choke, Push and Pull
Force: Vader has Force Hand Block (lol that's not the name though), Super Choke, strong Push and Pull, and superhuman strength.
Tyrannus might be better in the Force but his Lightning isn't too powerful, since AOTC Obi-Wan fended it off quite easily. If Vader can connect his Force Choke, Tyrannus is going to be crushed.
3.) Saber skills: Vader has mastered several lightsaber forms, including mastery of one-handed Force + Djem So. Dooku's good with Makashi, but Vader overpowers him.
He took on both of them because both were using totally different forms and weren't connected. Anakin couldn't use his Djem So fury without slicing Obi-Wan. It was only by taking Obi-Wan out of the picture was Anakin able to show his potential. Vader could take on both of them. His one-hand Djem So can block the Jedi's sabers and then he can use his Choke to throw Obi-Wan away.
5.) Vader lost to ROTJ Luke because- Vader was trying to seduce Luke, not kill him.
Luke was using the Dark Side with great strength.
Those numbers are f*cked up. Sidious has already stated that ROTS Vader = ROTS Sidious, so he's 100% of Sidious, not 85% of Sidious. Meaning ESB Vader's a fair bit behind ROTS Vader. And Mace is surley more than 90% of Sidious, I mean, he did beat him in a saber duel. He's got to be at least 95% of Sidious. And I thought Dooku was just slightly below Windu. So he's got to be about 90% of Sidious.
Wow, so what if Sidious has stated that? Grievous said you are doomed to Kenobi, so was Kenobi doomed? Sidious could have defeated Mace with Lightning, and he wasn't even trying to fight him with a saber. He was trying to convert Anakin. Dooku was slightly lesser than TPM Mace, when Mace didn't even have fighting experience. Anakin is lesser than Mace, and Dooku is lesser than Anakin.
Dooku= 80%
Vader= 85%
Anakin= 90%
Mace= 92%
Sidious/Yoda= 100%
Wow, so what if Sidious has stated that?
Sorry, I didn't mean to say Sidious. GL has stated that ROTS Vader = Sidious.
Sidious could have defeated Mace with Lightning, and he wasn't even trying to fight him with a saber.
Dooku was slightly lesser than TPM Mace, when Mace didn't even have fighting experience.
Anakin is lesser than Mace, and Dooku is lesser than Anakin.
Dooku= 80%
Vader= 85%
Anakin= 90%
Mace= 92%
Sidious/Yoda= 100%