Darth Vader versus Darth Tyranus

kk, well exar kun also didnt demonstrate lightning yet the dark side source book claimed he mastered it, and force shield is a basic ability

well i dont know if he said 2 times of sidious or 2x of himself, sidious is hell powerful you know especially by DE but i believe its only because he learnt more techniques,

well even if its 2x of sidious then NJO luke would be 2.1 to 2.2 times stronger than vader, because lucas exact quote is

"as anakin skywalker, darth vader is roughly 80% of sidious, had he not sustained his injuries he would have been twice as powerful,"

well yes i think twice as powerful as sidious but isnt vader stronger than anakin? because lucas said as anakin skywalker and OT vader has demonstrated some incredible abilities like choking his officer while looking at him on the tv screen? thats quite a distance away considering the size of the executor and also vader due to experience is stronger than anakin

vader by the OT could have been even 90% or maybe even 95% of the emperor but not as powerful due to that he cant use lightning
thats my opinion because the 80% thing when lucas mentioned was as anakin skywalker, not OT vader

doesnt it make a little bit of sense? its a 19 year gap

Since when is force shield a basic ability? Or what exactly do you mean by "force shield"? I didn't see Anakin nor Obi-Wan use it during the PT....

And yes, I belive that means he would be 200% of Sidious had he not been injured. And Lucas stated that Vader is 80%, so he is....

Levels Based on Sidious-

Sidious- 100%
Yoda- 100%
Mace Windu- 94%
Anakin Skywalker- 93%
Darth Vader- 92%
Count Dooku- 80-85%
Obi-Wan Kenobi- 76-79%

why is obi wan lower then anikan is it who is best or is it like sidiouss style of fighting

We could argue the levels for awhile... like Mace Took on Sidious and was winning til Anakin took out Mace... But hell, I guess even top rated teams fall to underdogs sometimes.

once again quinlan vos, vader is above anakin skywalker you got your facts messed up

and kam, lucas said AS anakin skywalker, not the vader we know in the OT, and i mean even with most of his potential gone he still fufilled his remaining potential which clearly beats anakin in ROTS when i mean force shield its like vader using the force with his hands to shield againsts hans blaster bolts, a feat which yoda used to defend himself against sidious lightning

Darth Vader- 92%
Count Dooku- 80-85%

*laughs*

And Lucas stated that Vader is 80%, so he is....

Originally posted by ESB Vader
once again quinlan vos, vader is above anakin skywalker you got your facts messed up

and kam, lucas said AS anakin skywalker, not the vader we know in the OT, and i mean even with most of his potential gone he still fufilled his remaining potential which clearly beats anakin in ROTS when i mean force shield its like vader using the force with his hands to shield againsts hans blaster bolts, a feat which yoda used to defend himself against sidious lightning

That is if Vader can block lightning. And is that really called force shield? That sounds more like an anime attack or something. I would just call it force block or defence or anything like that... (I thought you meant like a shield that surrounded your body, when you named Kyle and Jaden...)

And Palpatine has shown himself easily beyond Vader in the OT. In the Mandalorian armour, Vader refuses to do something that the Emperor wants him to, or disagrees with him. Palpatine just raises his arm, and stops all his mechanics from helping him breath and so, Vader is totally defenceless and can't do shit to stop him....

Tyranus loses big time, Vader beats him both in Saber Skill, and in Force Ability

Vader

Can we please get back on topic. I dont know what you are arguing ESB Vader. Id GL says that vader is 80% of Sidious then he is. Not 81% and not 79%, just 80%.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Tyranus loses big time, Vader beats him both in Saber Skill, and in Force Ability

Bullsh*t. The only thing Vader has in saber skills is brute strength. Dooku however is an 80 year old jedi master/ sith lord who has mastered, perfected and modified the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. Also in force abilities I might give that barely to Vader, however that is irrelevant because Dooku has knowledge of lightning - which absolutley wtf pwns Vader.

Okay fine Rampant, I would say Dooku is 80% because Mace is like 90 and Anakin is like 85% and Vader is slightly less like 82%

82 > 80

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Okay fine Rampant, I would say Dooku is 80% because Mace is like 90 and Anakin is like 85% and Vader is slightly less like 82%

82 > 80

Can I inquire as to where you are getting these figures from because last time I checked your opinion was not canon. I personally think that Dooku is a fair bit more than 80% but again it is just opinion. So then we are left with facts, and the fact is Dooku's lightning means pwned Vader.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Can we please get back on topic. I dont know what you are arguing ESB Vader. Id GL says that vader is 80% of Sidious then he is. Not 81% and not 79%, just 80%.

Bullsh*t. The only thing Vader has in saber skills is brute strength. Dooku however is an 80 year old jedi master/ sith lord who has mastered, perfected and modified the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. Also in force abilities I might give that barely to Vader, however that is irrelevant because Dooku has knowledge of lightning - which absolutley wtf pwns Vader.

WTF? Where are these 32 1/2.6%'s coming from?

You do realise that Vader > Anakin: Anakin > Dooku right? He still uses Djem So to great effect, with Dun Moch, while using 1 hand, it's basically a Strong Makashi. Vader would just Grip Dooku, as he does to everyone else, he has a much greater grasp of the Force.

Your fanboyism of Dooku is the only irrelevent thing here, Vader was much better, at his time, likely better than Sidious was in ROTS in terms of saber combat. The EU(Shadows of the Empire which probably is slightly higher than C Canon as Lucas stated if the book had been around, would have been made a movie) has Vader beating the Highest Level of Lightsaber Training Droid in a matter of seconds(without Force Powers). He would destroy Dooku

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger WTF? Where are these 32 1/2.6%'s coming from?

GL said that vader was 80% of Sidious. God knows where everything else iscoming from.

You do realise that Vader > Anakin: Anakin > Dooku right?

So what? That doesnt mean that Vader is better than Dooku. Its a stupid A>B>C argument which mean absolutley sh*t all.

He still uses Djem So to great effect, with Dun Moch, while using 1 hand, it's basically a Strong Makashi.

Hardly. Watch the OT duels and tell me one time that Vader uses anything similar to Makashi. Using one hand does not instantly mean you know Makashi, but it does mean that he is going to lose a great deal of power in his strikes. Also Dooku is an extremely good Dun Moch practicioner, so that really doesnt hold any weight.

Vader would just Grip Dooku, as he does to everyone else, he has a much greater grasp of the Force.

Dooku would just use force lightning. Point moot. Also what is to say he has a greater grasp? Oh, is this because he choked the commander on the other ship, because if it is who gives a sh*t. Dooku will not be on another ship so it is irrelevant. Put it this way. Dooku knows lightning, Vader knows choke. But Vader is naturally weak against lightning because of his suit and Dooku is fater so he can let off the force attack first.

Your fanboyism of Dooku is the only irrelevent thing here,

Im not arguing because im a fanboy im arguing because I am right.

Vader was much better, at his time, likely better than Sidious was in ROTS in terms of saber combat.

What? Are you saying that OT Vader is better than ROTS Palpatine with a blade? Give me a break, that would put Vader above ROTS Yoda in lightsaber skills. This is the same Vader who got beaten by a boy who had no proper training with either a blade or the force.

The EU(Shadows of the Empire which probably is slightly higher than C Canon as Lucas stated if the book had been around, would have been made a movie) has Vader beating the Highest Level of Lightsaber Training Droid in a matter of seconds(without Force Powers).

So what. Wasnt Maul able to beat a huge number of training droids as well (sorry if im wrong I dont read much EU)? This didnt stop him being beaten by a pissed of padawan.

He would destroy Dooku

Hardly

Yoda and Sidious are basically equal in terms, so they are 100% of one another.

Now Mace Windu is quite powerful. He has defeated Sidious in saber combat, but is probably weaker in the Force. Now there is also the chance that Sidious wasn’t really “trying”. For that, we can lower Mace’s strength a little bit. Therefore we yield:

Sidious/Yoda- 100%
Mace Windu- 92%

Now the next strongest warrior is Anakin Skywalker. Anakin while strong, is still a fair bit weaker than Sidious. However, he is described as being on par with Mace Windu. Since Mace Windu did defeat Sidious, he is stronger than Anakin. Anakin would probably be ranked as:

85% of Sidious.

Now we get Count Dooku. Anakin manages to dispose of Dooku within a minute of fighting, even while being taunted by Dooku’s Dun Moch. This shows a slightly larger gap of power between the two. Since Anakin is 85%, I would say Dooku would rounded off as 80% of Sidious.

Obi-Wan Kenobi ranks about 76% of Dooku.

Normal Jedi are about 40% of Sidious. A few others like Kit Fisto and Shaak Ti rank about 60% of Sidious.

Now we get to Vader, who I say is about 82% of Sidious. Let’s compare Anakin with Vader

Anakin:
-Masterful Djem So user
-Uses the Force abilities Push and Pull with an occasional weak Choke
-Extremely quick and agile
-Arrogant, sometimes costs him in battle

Darth Vader:
- In a futuristic suit which probably reduces his agility by ¼ of original, in the long run maybe 1/3
- Mastered several forms, including one-handed Djem So with Force
- Uses Force abilities Push, Pull, Choke, Persuasion, Telekinesis, Dissipate energy, Crush, Dun Moch
- Possesses great physical strength
- While fighting, he uses crushing blows which wears down the opponent. For those who say he is slow and useless, look at this:

People just judge him because of the choreography in the movies. If Vader was made today, he’d probably much quicker and even more powerful than Dooku. There is no reason why Vader cannot defeat Dooku. Just because he is in a suit does not mean he is like 7/8 of his original speed. His suit is not like medieval armor. His suit is futuristic and probably of only medium build. I would say even lightweight. It also gives protection from lightsaber blows, and Makashi won’t yield much kinetic power, so he is somewhat safe.

Vader > Dooku

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Yoda and Sidious are basically equal in terms, so they are 100% of one another.

Now Mace Windu is quite powerful. He has defeated Sidious in saber combat, but is probably weaker in the Force. Now there is also the chance that Sidious wasn’t really “trying”. For that, we can lower Mace’s strength a little bit. Therefore we yield:

Sidious/Yoda- 100%
Mace Windu- 92%

Now the next strongest warrior is Anakin Skywalker. Anakin while strong, is still a fair bit weaker than Sidious. However, he is described as being on par with Mace Windu. Since Mace Windu did defeat Sidious, he is stronger than Anakin. Anakin would probably be ranked as:

85% of Sidious.

Now we get Count Dooku. Anakin manages to dispose of Dooku within a minute of fighting, even while being taunted by Dooku’s Dun Moch. This shows a slightly larger gap of power between the two. Since Anakin is 85%, I would say Dooku would rounded off as 80% of Sidious.

Obi-Wan Kenobi ranks about 76% of Dooku.

Normal Jedi are about 40% of Sidious. A few others like Kit Fisto and Shaak Ti rank about 60% of Sidious.

Now we get to Vader, who I say is about 82% of Sidious. Let’s compare Anakin with Vader

Anakin:
-Masterful Djem So user
-Uses the Force abilities Push and Pull with an occasional weak Choke
-Extremely quick and agile
-Arrogant, sometimes costs him in battle

Darth Vader:
- In a futuristic suit which probably reduces his agility by ¼ of original, in the long run maybe 1/3
- Mastered several forms, including one-handed Djem So with Force
- Uses Force abilities Push, Pull, Choke, Persuasion, Telekinesis, Dissipate energy, Crush, Dun Moch
- Possesses great physical strength
- While fighting, he uses crushing blows which wears down the opponent. For those who say he is slow and useless, look at this:

People just judge him because of the choreography in the movies. If Vader was made today, he’d probably much quicker and even more powerful than Dooku. There is no reason why Vader cannot defeat Dooku. Just because he is in a suit does not mean he is like 7/8 of his original speed. His suit is not like medieval armor. His suit is futuristic and probably of only medium build. I would say even lightweight. It also gives protection from lightsaber blows, and Makashi won’t yield much kinetic power, so he is somewhat safe.

Vader > Dooku

There is simply far to much specualtion in that to be used as evidence. God knows how you got Mace Windu being 92% of Sidious. By that sort of logic I could say 'Anakin is better than Dooku and I think Dooku is about 93.58% of Sidious which means that Anakin is 96.65487% of Sidious'. See, it is pure speculation and completely wrong.

However I do agree that Vader is alot faster than people make him out to be - just not as fast as Dooku. Dooku was able to keep up with the like of Yoda, Vader was bested by Luke. Also stop saying his armour if futuristic - may I remind you "A long time ago in a galaxy far far way".

Originally posted by Rampant ox
GL said that vader was 80% of Sidious. God knows where everything else iscoming from.

So what? That doesnt mean that Vader is better than Dooku. Its a stupid A>B>C argument which mean absolutley sh*t all.

Hardly. Watch the OT duels and tell me one time that Vader uses anything similar to Makashi. Using one hand does not instantly mean you know Makashi, but it does mean that he is going to lose a great deal of power in his strikes. Also Dooku is an extremely good Dun Moch practicioner, so that really doesnt hold any weight.

Dooku would just use force lightning. Point moot. Also what is to say he has a greater grasp? Oh, is this because he choked the commander on the other ship, because if it is who gives a sh*t. Dooku will not be on another ship so it is irrelevant. Put it this way. Dooku knows lightning, Vader knows choke. But Vader is naturally weak against lightning because of his suit and Dooku is fater so he can let off the force attack first.

Im not arguing because im a fanboy im arguing because I am right.

What? Are you saying that OT Vader is better than ROTS Palpatine with a blade? Give me a break, that would put Vader above ROTS Yoda in lightsaber skills. This is the same Vader who got beaten by a boy who had no proper training with either a blade or the force.

So what. Wasnt Maul able to beat a huge number of training droids as well (sorry if im wrong I dont read much EU)? This didnt stop him being beaten by a pissed of padawan.

Hardly

rampant ox did you forget vader blocked hans solos shots at him? yoda used that to defend against dookus lightning and luke did it on a biger scale.

so even if dooku lightning and attack, it would be blocked

and vos for the last Fu*king time ANAKIN is 80% of sidious NOT OT vader, OT vader is HIGHER than anakin due to experience

Originally posted by kamikz
That is if Vader can block lightning. And is that really called force shield? That sounds more like an anime attack or something. I would just call it force block or defence or anything like that... (I thought you meant like a shield that surrounded your body, when you named Kyle and Jaden...)

And Palpatine has shown himself easily beyond Vader in the OT. In the Mandalorian armour, Vader refuses to do something that the Emperor wants him to, or disagrees with him. Palpatine just raises his arm, and stops all his mechanics from helping him breath and so, Vader is totally defenceless and can't do shit to stop him....

yes vader can block lightning since he blocked han solos bolts and yoda used the same thing to block dooku and sids lightning and luke did the same thing on a bigger scale to shield himself from an AT ATs fire

and how would dooku know how to shut down vaders control box? even roan shryne a great jedi master couldnt get to his "box" and sidious was the one who designed vaders suit i believe so he knew everything about it

o yes and for this fight, it depends on who has the upperhand and also on the situation

Originally posted by ESB Vader
[B]rampant ox did you forget vader blocked hans solos shots at him? yoda used that to defend against dookus lightning and luke did it on a biger scale.

Wtf are you talking about. How is any of this relevant to the duel?

so even if dooku lightning and attack, it would be blocked

For the last time I will tell you why he couldnt. Vader lifts his saber and blocks the force lightning coming towards him. At the same time Dooku attacks with his blade. What does Vader have left to block with? Nothing. Hence he will be killed. It is exactly the same if vader blocked Dooku's blade. he would have nothing left to block the lightning.

yes vader can block lightning since he blocked han solos bolts

Wtf. Laser bolts and force lightning are two completely different things.

and yoda used the same thing to block dooku and sids lightning

Wtf. Are you saying Vader is going to crush Dooku's lightning in his hands? Vader will be instsantly short circuited and will lose.

and luke did the same thing on a bigger scale to shield himself from an AT ATs fire

Irrelevant. Dooku is not going to be firing AT-AT shots at him.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
GL said that vader was 80% of Sidious. God knows where everything else iscoming from.

So what? That doesnt mean that Vader is better than Dooku. Its a stupid A>B>C argument which mean absolutley sh*t all.

Hardly. Watch the OT duels and tell me one time that Vader uses anything similar to Makashi. Using one hand does not instantly mean you know Makashi, but it does mean that he is going to lose a great deal of power in his strikes. Also Dooku is an extremely good Dun Moch practicioner, so that really doesnt hold any weight.

Dooku would just use force lightning. Point moot. Also what is to say he has a greater grasp? Oh, is this because he choked the commander on the other ship, because if it is who gives a sh*t. Dooku will not be on another ship so it is irrelevant. Put it this way. Dooku knows lightning, Vader knows choke. But Vader is naturally weak against lightning because of his suit and Dooku is fater so he can let off the force attack first.

Im not arguing because im a fanboy im arguing because I am right.

What? Are you saying that OT Vader is better than ROTS Palpatine with a blade? Give me a break, that would put Vader above ROTS Yoda in lightsaber skills. This is the same Vader who got beaten by a boy who had no proper training with either a blade or the force.

So what. Wasnt Maul able to beat a huge number of training droids as well (sorry if im wrong I dont read much EU)? This didnt stop him being beaten by a pissed of padawan.

Hardly

Actually what GL said was Vader was 80% of what he COULD be, which would place him VERY high up still

Actually it is a stronger arguement than you think, Vader is Anakin with 20+ Years more training, if Dooku lost to the weak, arrogant one, he has no chance against this one

Did I actually say he knew Makashi? No, I did not. Vader uses Djem-So to great effect with the Power of 2 hands, so I called it a Strong version of Makashi.

How do you know Vader can't block Lightning with his saber, or even more block it the same way he blocked Han's blaster? If you forget, Vader was getting electricuted while holding the Emperor whose hands were placed about 2 inches from his back. His Force Crushes/Grips are more powerful than Dooku's, as it is said again in Shadows of the Empire, he can make a person's Lung explode. Vader moves faster than we often see, look at Quinlan's post.

Yes, Vader is more than likely better than Sidious with a Blade, since Anakin was only slightly less if not equal with him back in ROTS. Yes, he got beaten by Luke, yet killed Hundreds of Jedi more skilled than him, that's just a problem with Continuity, just go on the he has 'Chosen One Blood, he can learn things Super Quick' theory.

Not a clue on the Maul thing, but these were top of the line things, likely as good/better than some of the great Jedi of the Clone Wars in skill, he had endless credits to supply them. And again, he killed Hundreds of Jedi in ROTS, and don't deny he was much more powerful in the OT. How ironic, that the best Sith are beaten by a Rash, arrogant, angry Padawan? (Vader by Luke, Maul by Obi-Wan, Dooku by Anakin) They can only kill super skilled ones I guess 😛

Originally posted by Rampant ox
There is simply far to much specualtion in that to be used as evidence. God knows how you got Mace Windu being 92% of Sidious. By that sort of logic I could say 'Anakin is better than Dooku and I think Dooku is about 93.58% of Sidious which means that Anakin is 96.65487% of Sidious'. See, it is pure speculation and completely wrong.

However I do agree that Vader is alot faster than people make him out to be - just not as fast as Dooku. Dooku was able to keep up with the like of Yoda, Vader was bested by Luke. Also stop saying his armour if futuristic - may I remind you "A long time ago in a galaxy far far way".

Yes, these percentages are pretty out of nowhere

Are you saying that Technology is better now than it was a Long Time Ago? 😱