advent i said vader would = to sidious when it was mentioned in rodv i was just pointing it out, ALOT of people especially sidious fanboys arent happy about that phrase, not saying you are one
Star Wars: Masters of Teras Kasi is where vader demonstrated that other variation of lightning BUT it might not be canon
Well, I want to point out a few things.
1. I feel Dooku could beat Vader in ROTS. A younger Dooku. Even AOTC Dooku would win. A number of factors made him lose. His age, his arrogance and his belief that even if he lost, it wouldn't be his demise. He would be rescued by Palpatine. If he fought with all the ferocity and strength he possessed and with no choice but to win and live or die ad lose, he would stand a very good chance.
2. ROTS Vader was dumb enough to lose to Ob-Wain. Anger does not make him a beast but rather clouds his judgment in batttle. Pissed off ROTS Anakin who does the "do not underestimate my power!!" and makes that retarded leap would have zero chance against Dooku who is calm and precise in power and skill.
3. In Force powers, Dooku is miles above Anakin at this point.
I say Dooku in AOTC or beforehand could take ROTS Vader. Not all the time but a majority.
1. The only factor that made him lose is that Anakin was more powerful and "decided" to win. Thats it. No more, no less. Find EVERYTHING that Advent posted, proving that Anakin was the better fighter, Dooku WAS "fighting for his life" and his age was NOT a factor.
2. I partially agree and disagree. He lost to OB1 cause he was cocky and made a dumb move yes, but I think that was the only way to end the fight without making it look like OB1 was more powerful, which he wasnt. GL said that at the time pf RoTS, Anakin was the most powerful, OB1 just had the experience and Anakin mad a bad choice. However, I believe that even with being pissed off, his rage and raw power would still allow him to beat Dooku, just maybe not as easy.
3. Why? Becasue he knows lightning? Thats not a power that a Jedi would know or use. Really we havent seen anything to say one is better than the other (as of ROTS). I know in AoTC we see that Yoda knows how to absorb lightning, but Dooku didnt even absorb it and we didnt get the chance to see RoTS Anakin deal with any lightning. I also would assume that Dooku was more powerful, but Sids said his new apprentice was "far younger, and more powerful.", and Anakin straight out pwned Dooku in a one on one...
if anything, id say the battles would end up being 50/50.
1. I really don't think so. honestly, think about it. If you go into a fight and you're assured to walk out of it alive either way, will you fight with everything you got?
2. Dooku was able to go rounds with Yoda in saber combat. You think a Ppissed off Anakin who's judgment and clear-thinking is reduced by 75% is gonna be able to stand against Yoda?
3. Yoda told Dooku he was powerful and they stalemated in Force powers. The only one who could overpower Yoda in The Force is Sidious. Anakin is stronger than yoda in The Force?
1. I'll find exerts from the novel that Advent posted to once again prove that he was fighting for his life.
2. Irrelevant. Yoda is not Dooku. Youre using the A>B>C formula. And where are you getting the 75% figure from? never heard that before.
3. No. Yoda said he was powerful but still had much to learn. Nowhere near a stalemate. A stalemate would mean they are equals...Yoda never attacked. Yoda PWNS him in force powers. Still irrelevant. Yoda is not Dooku.
1.I would like to see what quote exactly states that fighting to the death and fighting witha contiingency plan involves you putting the same amount of effort in. If you're gonna die, you fight harder. Duh
2. The 75% figure was out of my ass. The fact remains that Anakin more than showed that when he's pissed and angry, he is clumsy and lacks his normal capabilities. Anger effects people in different ways. Luke beat Vader with anger. Anakin lost to Obi 'cause of anger. A conceited and angry Anakin could not go with Dooku who went rounds with Yoda. THat's a perfectly legitimate statement. Can the angry and ocverconfident Anakin do as well with Yoda as Dooku did? I don't think so.
3. I agree. Yoda is above Dooku in The Force. But he nevertheless was still able to contest with Yoda in The Force. You think Anakin could? He made a Force push at Obi-Wan and when Obi-Wan pushed back, he couldn't move him. So, you think if Yoda or Dooku made a Force push at Obi-Wan, all he would have to do is push back and they'd be even?
this is dooku vs OT vader and clearly vader wins. period and im tired of seeing people say "0, D00kU k3Pt uP W!tH MAeSTA Y0D@"
number 1, vader can block lightning
number2, vaders grip and crush surpass dooku
number3. vaders form V owns any makashi user
number4. he is more agile than you think
number5, according to RODV where some fanboys cannot accept, it said there would be a day when vader = sidious which apparently is somewhere in the OT and sidious >>> dooku
dooku who can beat rots presuit vader? maybe because he is brainless punk, but after getting into his suit, he learnt his lessons well, he is more patient, more wise. dooku is too, if dooku is like 20 years old with the power he has in the movies, hell then yea id give it to dooku
Originally posted by ESB Vader
[B]this is dooku vs OT vader and clearly vader wins.
Actually no. 'Clearly' is a load of bullsh*t. If Vader was to win (which he wouldnt) it would hardly be easy.
and im tired of seeing people say "0, D00kU k3Pt uP W!tH MAeSTA Y0D@"
Dont disregard it as if it is useless. Yoda is faster than Vader. Dooku can keep up with Yoda as is shown in the movies. Meaning that Dooku is as fast, if not faster than Vader. Actually what am I saying, Dooku is faster. Period.
number 1, vader can block lightning
Of course he can. Did I ever say he couldnt. I dont think so (feel free to try and prove me wrong though). I said that Vader will not be able to block lightning with his hands. If you disagree with that then you are a n00b. He is a friggin cyborg. He has 4 metal limbs and a life support system. Any lightning fired by the Count (and oh yes, there will be lightning) will short circuit Vader.
number2, vaders grip and crush surpass dooku
True. And I will agree that this is something that Vader has the advantage in. But grip can be easily dodged by Dooku (and/or blocked). Crush is a fairly advanced force technique and requires a large degree of concentration and effort. vader wont have time in the middle of a duel to use crush. Especially when fighting someone as skilled and fast as Dooku.
number3. vaders form V owns any makashi user
No. The advantage yes, but 'owns', definatly not. Using Form V against Makashi isnt a guarenteed victory like you are making out. you seem to forget that makashi is the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. You also seem to forget the fact that Dooku is an 80 year old jedi master/sith lord who has mastered and perfected the form. He was also the temples saber instructor meaning that he has extensive knowledge of Form V anyway. Anakin knows next to nothing about Makashi.
number4. he is more agile than you think
Whoopdi doo. most people in the SW universe are more agile than you think (except Jabba lol). Look at Yoda for example. But the simple truth of the matter is that Dooku is faster.
number5, according to RODV where some fanboys cannot accept, it said there would be a day when vader = sidious which apparently is somewhere in the OT and sidious >>> dooku
Could you provide a quote please. Or I will assume it is more bullsh*t. And Sidious is not '>>>' better than Dooku. he is better yes but not by a giant margin.
if dooku is like 20 years old with the power he has in the movies, hell then yea id give it to dooku
Wtf are you saying? That Dooku's age is going to cost him the match? Get real. If anything the Counts years are going to give him the advantage.
yes, if its serious dooku vs brainless presuit vader than dooku wins, np 😉
ok rampant, number 1, heres the quote "there would be a day however when they would become equals" page 330 of rodv, that is enough to prove that vader is better than dooku
and yes vader would win dooku, you cant prove that dookus lightning can zap his other limbs, you dont even know where he would zap him, vader can simply use the force to shield him from the lightning then counter with crush,
Originally posted by ESB Vader
ok rampant, number 1, heres the quote "there would be a day however when they would become equals" page 330 of rodv,
Hmm. Is that Vaders (or someone elses) thoughts or from the narrator. My apologies but I dont have the book.
that is enough to prove that vader is better than dooku
LMFAO!! Hardly. If it is true, then its says there would be a day. This 'day' could be 40 years from when the quote was written. Correct me if im wrong but this does not include the OT era.
and yes vader would win dooku, you cant prove that dookus lightning can zap his other limbs, you dont even know where he would zap him, vader can simply use the force to shield him from the lightning then counter with crush,
Jesus f*ckin christ. It doesnt matter where Dooku zapped him. If it was any of the 4 limbs the electricity would flw through the metal and short circuit him. If the lightning hit his torso it wouldnt instantly take out the life support. And you seem to be forgetting about Dooku's saber. Sure, its all well and good to block the Counts lightning and counter but by then Vader will be sliced and diced by Dooku's blade. He cant block the lightning and Dooku's sword at the same time. Especially since Dooku is the faster duellist.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hmm. Is that Vaders (or someone elses) thoughts or from the narrator. My apologies but I dont have the book.LMFAO!! Hardly. If it is true, then its says [b]there would be a day
. This 'day' could be 40 years from when the quote was written. Correct me if im wrong but this does not include the OT era.Jesus f*ckin christ. It doesnt matter where Dooku zapped him. If it was any of the 4 limbs the electricity would flw through the metal and short circuit him. If the lightning hit his torso it wouldnt instantly take out the life support. And you seem to be forgetting about Dooku's saber. Sure, its all well and good to block the Counts lightning and counter but by then Vader will be sliced and diced by Dooku's blade. He cant block the lightning and Dooku's sword at the same time. Especially since Dooku is the faster duellist. [/B]
o? and like dooku is going to zap vader at point blank range? dooku will get burned as it happened to palpatine and as i said fanboy, when crush wears on you , you cant defend it at all, you cant swing ur saber you cant do nothing, that proves that will own dooku, o and isnt the battle on tatooine? very well, then vader uses the force to lift the sand and blind dooku then chop him, period, you got owned again
and that quote refers to the OT or prehaps the EU like crimson empire? vaders quest? as i said, some people cant accept that quote is true
vader choked his officer like a distance of a mile away, he could do that to dooku, he could use an object to pin him, or force push him a distance like he did to tark, then pin him some more wth crush,
and being faster doesnt mean better, yoda was way faster than sidious and yet the match was a draw
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Actually no. 'Clearly' is a load of bullsh*t. If Vader was to win (which he wouldnt) it would hardly be easy.Dont disregard it as if it is useless. Yoda is faster than Vader. Dooku can keep up with Yoda as is shown in the movies. Meaning that Dooku is as fast, if not faster than Vader. Actually what am I saying, Dooku is faster. Period.
Of course he can. Did I ever say he couldnt. I dont think so (feel free to try and prove me wrong though). I said that Vader will not be able to block lightning with his hands. If you disagree with that then you are a n00b. He is a friggin cyborg. He has 4 metal limbs and a life support system. Any lightning fired by the Count (and oh yes, there will be lightning) will short circuit Vader.
True. And I will agree that this is something that Vader has the advantage in. But grip can be easily dodged by Dooku (and/or blocked). Crush is a fairly advanced force technique and requires a large degree of concentration and effort. vader wont have time in the middle of a duel to use crush. Especially when fighting someone as skilled and fast as Dooku.
No. The advantage yes, but 'owns', definatly not. Using Form V against Makashi isnt a guarenteed victory like you are making out. you seem to forget that makashi is the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. You also seem to forget the fact that Dooku is an 80 year old jedi master/sith lord who has mastered and perfected the form. He was also the temples saber instructor meaning that he has extensive knowledge of Form V anyway. Anakin knows next to nothing about Makashi.
Whoopdi doo. most people in the SW universe are more agile than you think (except Jabba lol). Look at Yoda for example. But the simple truth of the matter is that Dooku is faster.
Could you provide a quote please. Or I will assume it is more bullsh*t. And Sidious is not '>>>' better than Dooku. he is better yes but not by a giant margin.
Wtf are you saying? That Dooku's age is going to cost him the match? Get real. If anything the Counts years are going to give him the advantage.
Actually, Dooku didn't "keep up" with Yoda, he stood in one place while blocking saber strikes. Vader is probably as fast as Dooku, if not more
Vader can block it with his Saber, and his glove. The reason he got fried by Palpatine was because his arms were about a foot away, and it was going almost directly into the suit. I believe it has been stated that Vader knows the Technique that Yoda knows for reflecting it.
How will the Count "Dodge" Grip? It's the same as Crush, but slower paced. AND Vader's Crush has been said to cause the Organ to explode, wonder what would happen if Dooku's Lung or Heart just explodes upon entering combat hmmmm. Dooku isn't that fast, and Grip can be used in combat, but it poses a problem when fighting more than 1 person, as they cut you apart while you do so.
It's safe to assume that Vader's Djem So is much past what it is in ROTS, done 1 handed. Makashi is weak against Styles like Juyo and Djem So that have power behind them, in the Novel it was said Anakin was knocking his own saber into his shoulder. And Makashi isn't the best for Saber Combat, Juyo/Vaapad is. 80 Years of age only brings knowledge, about 10 of those were spent learning the Dark Side, not that impressive, with Vader's 20.
Dooku isn't that fast, and again is likely close to Vader in speed, or maybe a slight bit faster.
Sidious would destroy Dooku with ease, you forget that he said he would never try to make a move against Sidious even with Asajj Ventress beside him. Plus Dooku doesn't wipe out 3 Jedi in a matter of 5 Seconds.
Age just gives him knowledge, and about 70 of those years were learning the Light Side, defence, Healing, etc etc, Vader has twice as much Dark Side experience.
Rampant, dont make me call Advent in here, lol. Look, Sidious is WAY ahead of Dooku. Sids is ahead of Yoda who is ahead of Dooku. And for all the little smart guys in here who want to try to say im using the A>B>C theory, think before you type. Its not the same...However, you know what...i just lost the will to fight. We've been over this time and time again, and Vader ALWAYS comes out on top. Heres a bit of simple logic....Had Dooku been better, then tne saga would have been about him, not Vader.
Well, Sidious is better than Vader. The saga isn't about him. So...that logic fails.
And A>B>C works fine unless you don't agree with it. I mean, honestly. You say OT Vader can take ROTS Yoda? I'm finding that very unlikely and completely ludicrous.
Dooku lost to ROTS Anakin. You all think OT Vader could beat ROTS Anakin? I really don't. And I've already said why I think the results of that fight aren't exactly plain. Anywa, Dooku learned the dark side in his youth. I remember reading he studied a Sith holocron he found. By no means did Dooku spend all his life learnigna nd using the light side of The Force. He was never a true Jedi as his ideas clashed very much so with those of the Order.
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well, Sidious is better than Vader. The saga isn't about him. So...that logic fails.And A>B>C works fine unless you don't agree with it. I mean, honestly. You say OT Vader can take ROTS Yoda? I'm finding that very unlikely and completely ludicrous.
Dooku lost to ROTS Anakin. You all think OT Vader could beat ROTS Anakin? I really don't. And I've already said why I think the results of that fight aren't exactly plain. Anywa, Dooku learned the dark side in his youth. I remember reading he studied a Sith holocron he found. By no means did Dooku spend all his life learnigna nd using the light side of The Force. He was never a true Jedi as his ideas clashed very much so with those of the Order.
wtf are you talking about??? Dooku was Yoda's apprentice...it take awhile to get beyond the "having a master" stage. THEN he even had the time to train a padawan of his own. If anything, Anakin learned in his youth, as he still called OB1 Master.
So i guess that since Qui Gon wasnt a really Jedi cause his values were so different...So..."THAT LOGIC FAILS".
Did I ever once say that Vader could beat Yoda? Hmm, I dont think i did....thanks for playing though.
And yes, Sidious was more powerful than Vader, but he was never good, always evil, so no it couldnt be about him and that logic does not fail. Dooku was once a Jedi Master, and turned to the darkside, so why couldnt it be about him? CAUSE VADER IS BETTER! No matter how you want to slice it, a young Anakin/Soon to be Vader killed a very experienced Dooku who had been practicing the ways of the force for over 8 decades. And the Sith holocron was something his boy Nod tried to blame on him and was never substantiated that Dooku tried to learn from it.
Did I ever once say that Vader could beat Yoda? Hmm, I dont think i did....thanks for playing though.
But you and the others are guing OT Vader could beat Dooku. Dooku went rounds with yoda an dkept up damn well. SO, if Vader in his suit can keep up with yod as of AOTC, then he has a chance of beating Dooku in sabers.
And yes, Sidious was more powerful than Vader, but he was never good, always evil, so no it couldnt be about him and that logic does not fail. Dooku was once a Jedi Master, and turned to the darkside, so why couldnt it be about him? CAUSE VADER IS BETTER! No matter how you want to slice it, a young Anakin/Soon to be Vader killed a very experienced Dooku who had been practicing the ways of the force for over 8 decades. And
And more than just I have reservations on why Anakin won the fight. But again, as the person said, this is OT Vader. What does OT Vader have and what doesn't he have? More experience to be sure but he's lost a great deal of his speed and mobility. He may be stronger as well but he's not half ow what he could have been. Vader was beat back by Luke's Form Bat saber strikes. If he can be taken back and knocked down by that, I think a solid master of Makashi and a far more superb duelist than ROTJ Luke can best him.
First off, could Anakin beat Yoda, prolly not, but did he beat Dooku, yes he did, and rather easily. So the A>B>C theory doesnt hold much water. You can argue all you want about Dooku not fighting his hardest, but go read the Novel. It clearly states that he was. You cant test someone without giving your all...period. Youre trying to compare a weightlifter from the 70's in a heavy, hot suit to a young in shape, lean 23 year old guy who had the advantage of superior sword training..not a mech Vader vs a younger counterpart. You can argue that all you want, but the truth is, had they had better technology, they would have used a digital face of OB1 on a young man (like they did for dooku) and whoever played Vader would be faster than David Prowes. GL can use that lame excuse "it was a old man fighting a machine man.", but thats F*CKING GAY!! Why are we to believe that Dooku was good and fast as an old man, but OB1 (who wasnt 80) was to be slow due to age? He's been smoking too much flannel.
When Vader faught Luke, he was doing what he was told, he didnt want to hurt Luke at all. You think that LORD VADER couldnt hit a kid standing on a platform with his saber if he wanted? C'mon, by that time, he had love for his son. Luke was his last bridge to his former self, the last thing that the good man in him could relate too. And I know youre going to say that Dooku was doing as he was told, but he had NO connection to Anakin besides hate. And with Luke swinging like that, Vader made no attempt to attack, which he easily could have done. Luke tried that shit in ESB kinda and look at where it got him...Vader was going easy on him them, and in RoTJ. Notice 4 seconds after Luke tagged him shoulder, he lost a hand cause Vader stopped playing with him.
With the exception of PRIOR to RoTS, no version of Anakin could lose to Dooku. When he first turned to the Darkside, he wasnt as angry as he was with OB1, with everyone else. He got that mad because he thought his wife betrayed him and brought OB1 to kill him, and then thought that OB1 had turned the one person he loved (and actually loved him back) against him. Dooku could never get him that riled up, so there would be no reason his mind would get as clouded as it did with OB1.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
[B]Youre trying to compare a weightlifter from the 70's in a heavy, hot suit to a young in shape, lean 23 year old guy who had the advantage of superior sword training..not a mech Vader vs a younger counterpart. You can argue that all you want, but the truth is, had they had better technology, they would have used a digital face of OB1 on a young man (like they did for dooku) and whoever played Vader would be faster than David Prowes.
I agree that thats what should have happened. But the simple truth is that it didnt. We are stuck with them fighting clumsy and slow, and because it is in the movie it is canon. Now in the EU we see Vader fight much faster, and thats fair enough. So with this we can find some middle ground. Vader is faster than he is on the movies, but slower than EU (purely because movies are higher canon). We cant say he is as fast as he is in EU because it directly contradicts the movie.
GL can use that lame excuse "it was a old man fighting a machine man.", but thats F*CKING GAY!! Why are we to believe that Dooku was good and fast as an old man, but OB1 (who wasnt 80) was to be slow due to age? He's been smoking too much flannel.
Opinions my friend. If GL says so (as stupid as he often is about these things) it is true.
Dooku is faster. He has been shown in the movies to be faster, he can duel Yoda (who is arguably the fastest) and keep up, and he can easily take on and keep up with Anakin and Obi-Wan. Vader in the movies is slow and clumsy, bad technology yes, but still canon. He got beaten by Luke who has nowhere near the speed of the Count and he is mostly mechanical. Now use some common sense here people and accept that vader is the slower duellist. Not by much, but by enough.