Originally posted by jinzinThis right here is a good argument but there are a few incorrect assumptions that need to be pointed out.
alllllllllllllllllllllrighty..... lets see here...metalman first off buddy...sorry man, but you've got some MAJOR flaws in your argument....
spiderman has tagged quicksilver? sorry I'm not familiar with this instance....but then again... I'm not surprised... let's look at a short list of other people that have done the same shall we?
people that have hit quicksilver: wolverine, captain america, gambit, and cyber....
Sorry but unfortunately dispite his speed, he's not too quick where it counts (upstairs) and makes himself predictable to read. While it's a nice feat and all...considering his record it's not nearly that impressive.
And yes spiderman beatr speed demon...but your memory serves you wrong... unfortunately for the spiderman argument, he didn't beat speedy staight up, he had major plot device help and had to wear speed demon down before he even had a chance of aquiring victory...but he didn't actually win any sort of fight whatsoever...
as for your other examples...well that's exactly why this thread and so many others involving spidey go on for as long as they do.
you see the thing is, although many of spiderman's rogues are pretty damned powerful they more often than not tend to: be complete idiots, have no formal training, not have any sort of strategic thought process (kinda parallels the idiots thing), and are usually just normal guys who got super powers one way or another.you used green goblin as an example...which is pretty invalid for a comparison for a debate involving CN for two major reasons, first being, he's a damned loon, no matter the incarnation GG is one crazy muthafu*ka who lacks the comprehensive skills to strategically think out a fight....CN isn't crazy like that and DOES have those skills... Green goblin also lacks any formal fighting ability, he's just a damned street fighter... fighting against another street fighter who not only fights more but has a form of precognative ability. It gives spiderman a distint advantage over someone else who doesn't know how to fight, no matter how fast and strong they are. CN however has a supreme amount of fighting ability ON TOP of his enhanced stats, spiderman's spider sense won't be anywhere NEAR as impressive against CN as it would vs. GG..... there is a reason that GG was scared of having to deal with daredevil, he knew he couldn't compete with matts skills in spite of having overwhelming speed and strength factors on his side, he wanted NO PIECE.
If you wish to disagree with this asseseement that's fine and all but I ask you to consider this... if my assessment is incorrect why where GG's kids able to put up a better h2h fight than GG even though they lacked even a percentage of GG's powers and such?
(though you really don't have to answer that because I'll do it for you)...
Spiderman as has been proven on multiple occasions has an extremely frusturating and difficult time when he's dealing with very well experienced fighters. Luckly for him most of these fighters who outclass him are a good portion weaker and slower than him as most of them are ploted into the peak human category.
examples of this character trait can be seen in his fights with: captain america, wolverine, daredevil, sabretooth, punisher, the foreigner, jason macendale (before he got his super powers), fancy dan, shang chi, the taskmaster, moonknight, and the king pin. Hell even doc doom beat him to a pulp in a fist fight, as did shocker, and even sin eater secured an advantage in one of their fights.
lets not forget: the white ninja...a guy comparable to CN YET lacking (all the speed and strength-) enhancements, a vibro sword, and ranged weaponry that CN HAS...put spiderman to a complete stalemate.
now I'm not trying to make an xxxx beat xxx argument... but when you come along and say that CN has to be at flash-level speeds to even land a hit I just have to call you out on that and support why. Spiderman is not that fast..he's not anywhere CLOSE to being THAT fast. He's a fast guy who has a precognative sense that helps him sense danger but because he lacks formal training as well, he can't make the absolute best use of his powers and abilities... if spiderman was a world class fighter I would say that he's win this no problem but he's not. He's even admitted that his spider sense only acted as an equalizer to match iron fist's skills, who's for all intents and purposes a normal guy. now add on a great deal more speed and strength to that and spiderman loses whatever advantage he once had...
also it should be noted that spiderman's ability to dodge bullets is more of an ability to dodge the aim of the gun before the bullet is shot out, while he can move fast enough to literally dodge them, this is not something outside the scope of a peak human's abilities either...if you seriosuly believe that spiderman could dodge the hell out of everything CN gave him without even coming close to being touched, as that's certainly what you implied..all I can say is you're wrong...
spiderman's fast, not fast enough to dodge everything (especially from an invisable opponent).
spiderman's strong, unfortunately if he tries to capitalize on strength he gets scewered (like he almost did vs. sabretooth).
spiderman's got webbing and he'll have to get past CN's sword and arm to make use of it at all...which considering the swords vibro properties isn't likely...
CN's the better fighter, better strategist, is just as fast, is strong enough to take a spidey punch or a few of them for that matter, can turn himself invisable, and he's guaranteed a one hit kill. spiderman can't afford to make mistakes, CN can to some extent (not that he even will). He's got too many advantages over spidey here. It's not always about who's faster and stronger = victor, I thought you would have realized this by now...
Mainly the point about CN being a better fighter and strategist. That's purely an opinion because Spider-man took out the tri-sentinal (which would scatter the metal gears) and CN got crushed by the metal gear.
CN might be fast but that doesn't give him any advantage because Spider-man uses his webbing and strength to move faster than his legs can carry him. His webbing has been used to disarm many opponents and he hardly ever holds back on mechanical opponents.
Their agility is equal otherwise CN doesn't deserve the title of a ninja but Spider-man has the strength advantage and would be superior to dodging than CN due to the EARLY warning that CN doesn't get at all.
So how does CN have an advantage over Spider-man when Spider-man is literally his equal or better in usage of agility to evade AND has an EARLY warning of evasion priority?
Why would you think that a being whose physical abilities overall are outmatched and has a slower attack and defense speed has an advantage? Is it because he carries a sword? Blades do not a better FIGHTER make. They just make a fighter more formidable.
Spider-man is far far far beyond peak human as far as physiology goes and his combination of superhuman strength and litheness would make him a dangerous opponent without the enhanced equilibrium, spider-sense, tactical mind, superhuman aim, and versatile webbing. CN is the one who is at a disadvantage unless he has some way of removing some of Spider-mans advantages. And don't forget that Spider-man is very good at removing an opponents advantages himself.
I do think that this is a good match though and I am not just going to say that Spider-man would win. 😎 There may be something that the ninja can do that I'm not aware of yet. However if what I saw in the first psx metal gear game was the limit of what he could do then I would have to say that the odds are not in his favor. 😮💨