Literature in Music?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
This is more than a little off-topic, but I feel I should enlighten you again. I responded to your post about 'why would anyone skip a track on an album' and your waffer-thin skin came out in pimples. Also, I never PM'd you about it, so stick the facts, Batman.

It never happened again - 'til now (oh, the irony!) - because I had no interest in debating with someone who resorts to playground retorts along the line of "Waaah, you started it!".

So, my new suggestion to you is...Goo-goo-goo-ga-gaaa-ge-gaaa - Yep, now I'm speaking your language! Better? That's good.

So you want me to stop doing what you are doing? How does that work, Robin? No, wait...don't worry. The very fact that you were acting like a complete child (and still are) is astounding.

You can sit there and lie through your back teeth all you want. It doesn't matter to me. You let a passing comment get you riled up.

-AC

I'm older than you, Poppy. I'm not 'riled-up', but rather mildly amused by your bloated posturing. I've no problem with a display of 'confidence', but that's not the name we give it when it's coupled with ignorance.

I find it rather amusing that you say I am lying. I'm sure in one of your sweet, sweet dreams I'm sending you PM after PM after PM, but in the real world of man-made things it ain't much more than a willow in the whisp.

I'd be angry, if I didn't pity you.

"All the world's a stage, now watch me prance like a spring deer"

-Shakesheadspeare

Back to the topic...The quality of 'literature' is not subjected to tests in regards to how many words are used on a page, but rather the vividness of the descriptions and the evocative emotions it can arouse. The same applies to music.

Lesson over, take a break.

I wish all lessons were that switft.

*takes break*

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I'm older than you, Poppy. I'm not 'riled-up', but rather mildly amused by your bloated posturing. I've no problem with a display of 'confidence', but that's not the name we give it when it's coupled with ignorance.

I find it rather amusing that you say I am lying. I'm sure in one of your sweet, sweet dreams I'm sending you PM after PM after PM, but in the real world of man-made things it ain't much more than a willow in the whisp.

I'd be angry, if I didn't pity you.

"All the world's a stage, now watch me prance like a spring deer"

-Shakesheadspeare

Funny how you opened it with "I'm older than you, Poppy." If I were presumptuous I'd say that you're just bitten by the fact that I'm younger, not that you're older. Luckily for us, I'm not. I'm also not here to get into a "fight" with anyone, which is less than I can say for someone who is known to troll certain members across the forum because they are at a disliking for what someone has said (Lest we forget your temper tantrum after you didn't like what I said. Which, ironically, ended with you completely cocking up your definitions of a word and looking completely silly for trying to weasel out of it).

Anyway, as you said, on topic:

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Back to the topic...The quality of 'literature' is not subjected to tests in regards to how many words are used on a page, but rather the vividness of the descriptions and the evocative emotions it can arouse. The same applies to music.

Lesson over, take a break.

Right, the vividness of description and evocative emotions is exactly right. Which is why I've said to Afro Cheese that I'm not about to claim I can prove something that really amounts to being different strokes etc. I was asked for criteria, incase you missed it. The criteria I put forth was intelligence through lyricism. In this case? Lyrical content. I never stated there was anything wrong with anyone preferring lyrics over lyrics I like, it's what makes the world rotate. I was putting forth the claim and question that no hip hop MC had produced (or was/is capable of producing) lyrics equalling or surpassing the intellectual content of Maynard James Keenan.

So why you went all Whitney Houston on me is a question even I can't answer. Maybe you'd consider giving me a lesson on how to be a complete diva, seeing as you're in the trade and all.

-AC

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
So, my new suggestion to you is...Goo-goo-goo-ga-gaaa-ge-gaaa - Yep, now I'm speaking your language! Better? That's good.

😆

(Because it was supposed to sound like baby talk)

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Funny how you opened it with "I'm older than you, Poppy." If I were presumptuous I'd say that you're just bitten by the fact that I'm younger, not that you're older. Luckily for us, I'm not. I'm also not here to get into a "fight" with anyone, which is less than I can say for someone who is known to troll certain members across the forum because they are at a disliking for what someone has said (Lest we forget your temper tantrum after you didn't like what I said. Which, ironically, ended with you completely cocking up your definitions of a word and looking completely silly for trying to weasel out of it).

Although my words are beautiful, sometimes it is better to use another's...

"Blessed is the man who, having nothing to stay, abstains from giving us worthy evidence of the fact."

If only you had followed dear ol' George Eliot's advice.

Oh, yeah...We were just getting back on topic weren't we, Poppy...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Right, the vividness of description and evocative emotions is exactly right. Which is why I've said to Afro Cheese that I'm not about to claim I can prove something that really amounts to being different strokes etc. I was asked for criteria, incase you missed it. The criteria I put forth was intelligence through lyricism. In this case? Lyrical content. I never stated there was anything wrong with anyone preferring lyrics over lyrics I like, it's what makes the world rotate. I was putting forth the claim and question that no hip hop MC had produced (or was/is capable of producing) lyrics equalling or surpassing the intellectual content of Maynard James Keenan.

I have another lesson for you. This one is more of a journey of self-discovery. Try reading your post again and see if you can point out the contradictions.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So why you went all Whitney Houston on me is a question even I can't answer. Maybe you'd consider giving me a lesson on how to be a complete diva, seeing as you're in the trade and all.

Something about Mariah calling Whitney an over-the-top performer...

Finally, I'm pleased to see that you have realised the error of your ways and acknowledged that I have never touched your PM box - unless, of course, you're getting your acronyms mixed-up and you actually mean 'Mussy Puff', in which case, I've flicked a few...

'Oh You Tea' spells...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I have another lesson for you. This one is more of a journey of self-discovery. Try reading your post again and see if you can point out the contradictions.

I didn't contradict myself, unless of course you are implying that intelligent lyrical content is still subjective.

If someone in this thread can prove that there's a hip hop MC capable of producing more intellectual and intelligent lyrics, I'm here ready to read them and ready to admit such. It hasn't happened, so I can't do that. Nor do I believe it will.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
...Says Mariah.

Finally, I'm pleased to see that you have realised the error of your ways and acknowledged that I have never touched your PM box - unless you're getting your acronyms mixed-up and you actually mean 'Mussy Puff', in which case, I've flicked a few...

'Oh You Tea' spells...

(Haha, cos she's a singer also. Quite slick.)

I don't have the PM anymore so admittedly I can't prove you did it, but you did. You know you did, I know you did. If you are trying to convince yourself you didn't do it, fine with me. I won't sit here saying "You did, you did, you did" because I can't prove you did. It's my word vs yours and I have absolutely no reason at all to lie. Also, given that a good number of people (your supposed evidence of the fact) saw you do what you did, I don't think I have to convince anyone. I'm done with this part of the conversation as a result. Don't bring up maturity if you act like a 10 year old.

-AC

Once again AC doesn't fail to entertain. Another member, another lively debate. Thanks for the laughs my friend.

You're welcome, my friend.

-AC

I was being sarcastic, but thanx anyway.

These are some of my favorite lyrics by Illogic that i think stand up to some of the Rock ones posted earlier, the song is called Hate in a puddle and its about the artists own self loathing:

I hate when it rains, cause in puddles I encounter this guy
Unable to give a rebuttal but swift as the pain flood his eyes
wonderin why he's a gift with no purpose
A priceless one-of-a-kind piece that's worthless
Grounded with no surface
And when he shows one, it's a facade
Cause inside he fights feelings that he was mistake by God
I see his confusion and self-deception
Questions of relevance and intelligence
He holds an illusion of self-acceptance
that he shows to those outside lookin in
He's outside lookin in to his own life; lookin for strength
to carry on as a pawn in this chess game of existance
In his mind he wants to go on to the dawn
and leave the stress that came with existance
Hopin in death he'll find life
Cause as he lives, he roams the dark, tryin to find light
He's made his heart so hard, he doesn't even cry anymore
Cause he's confronted sorrow frequently
His heart's been broken frequently
It's like he's lost some part of him and just haven't found it yet
So in his search, he's left with nothin but questions and regret
All he wants to know is how one day, he's content
and the next day he's cryin
cause his life isn't what he thought life meant
He just wants to be happy, with his love and all
But too often I get messages through telepathic calls
He's askin me through a puddle what more must he endure to continue
But for some reason he knows he most endure to continue

[Chorus]

When I walk past puddles, my reflection calls beggin me
to answer his questions about life and his perceptions
and tell him why I hate him so much
And you wonder why I hate him so much?
Now when I walk past puddles, my reflection calls beggin me
to answer his questions about life, and his perceptions
and tell him why I hate him so much
Damn, I wonder why I hate him so much

Why did I hate him so much?I wondered, pondered on the question
What in my mind caused me to despise my reflection?
I didn't know I just knew when I saw him, how I felt
and hated the fact that he had to play with the cards that he was dealt
He's come in contact with some ill things that can't be explained
Life's extracted his energy to where the pain can't be contained
So to me he comes, sheddin tears like skin
Intimate with some, only the ones he calls friends
If he even exists, he only exists in pain
It's like his life is a myth
and he's been blessed with the gift of shame, I mean
From birth to love he's been betrayed
He's an unknown in how to cope with that pain and dissapointment
he's come to know as he's grown
He feels he stands alone in this world of puddle images
And he awaits the time for when, time finishes
He tries to elevate thought, but he's still chillin in the basement
Awaitin a rebirth of his soul as it fears it's spiritual placement

[Chorus]

God I pray you can give me a purpose or help me find it
Cause on this narrow path of self-damnation, I can't find it
Is it somethin I need to know, some way I need to grow
to get out of this rut, God give me some self-trust
Love is somethin I'm lookin for but I've found it, or have I?
I wanna live but can I, or do I have to die to?
I try to, have life but my life seems kinda worthless
as I'm starin at this puddle
God I pray that you can give me a purpose or help me find it
Cause on this narrow path of self-damnation, I can't find it
Is it somethin I need to know, some way I need to grow
to get out of this rut, God please give me some self-trust
Love is somethin I'm lookin for - thought I found it, or have I?
I wanna live but can I, or do I have to die to?
I try to, have life but my life seems kinda worthless
as I'm starin in this puddle

[Chorus]

I sit alone in dismal silence
Peering into the eyes of my reflection
Wondering if his thoughts are adjacent to my own
What visions of eerie savagery
are passing if purity lurks in the mind of he who I mirror?
Lookin at him I am disgusted
He lacks beauty in all external areas
and internally he seems so confused
Perplexed with this conundrum of life
He proceeds to function or cope, lookin at it realistically
Esteem he lacks, in all areas of existance
Reason unknown
What is the cause of the lack of this self-acceptance?
I mean it seems like he needs constant assurance
Some type of ritual proof that he's even worth the oxygen he breathes
A, light that shines upon him
Is his living in vein?Does he have a purpose?
Answer - eternally unknown

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I didn't contradict myself, unless of course you are implying that intelligent lyrical content is still subjective.

I feel awkward taking you seriously, but I will indulge you here...Comparing the 'intelligent lyrical content' of two songs from different genres is like comparing an orange to furry, little animal who hops on two legs. What I have just done is demonstrate an exercise in futility; I don't expect you to understand the concept, but I have attempted to explain it to you none-the-less...

I'd hate this delightful thread to degenerate into name calling, but I feel that I should acknowledge this post in light of your accusations of 'immaturity':

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If someone in this thread can prove that there's a hip hop MC capable of producing more intellectual and intelligent lyrics, I'm here ready to read them and ready to admit such. It hasn't happened, so I can't do that. Nor do I believe it will.

If you don't get what I'm saying, then the demonstration is reinforced. Thanks for your support.

NEXT!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
(Haha, cos she's a singer also. Quite slick.)

I'm honored that it tickled you, but you should have waited for the edited version. I feel it's funnier and a little more sophisticated. I'd love to read your thoughts...

Now for the big doo-doo from you-you-you...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't have the PM anymore so admittedly I can't prove you did it, but you did. You know you did, I know you did. If you are trying to convince yourself you didn't do it, fine with me. I won't sit here saying "You did, you did, you did" because I can't prove you did. It's my word vs yours and I have absolutely no reason at all to lie. Also, given that a good number of people (your supposed evidence of the fact) saw you do what you did, I don't think I have to convince anyone. I'm done with this part of the conversation as a result. Don't bring up maturity if you act like a 10 year old.

Wow. Sometimes, I can't work out if you are a real live boy or a fantastic fallacy fountain. Although, considering the garbage you spew, perhaps the sobriquet 'Muck-Spreader' would be more appropriate.

Either way, I like your work. It's like a teenage angst case-study for all the net to see.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I feel awkward taking you seriously, but I will indulge you here...Comparing the 'intelligent lyrical content' of two songs from different genres is like comparing an orange to furry, little animal who hops on two legs. What I have just done is demonstrate an exercise in futility; I don't expect you to understand the concept, but I have attempted to explain it to you none-the-less...

It's not like comparing those two things is it? Where did you get that from? By your rationale you can't compare a karate expert and a boxing expert? They're both fighting styles.

It's quite obvious that talking about certain subjects requires more intelligence than it does for others, right? I mean surely a smart guy like yourself knows that you can't pull your average joe off the street and discuss alternative universes and the nature of infinity. So let's say Maynard writes about the possibilities of humans being eternal in spirit, humanity as a singular consciousness experiencing itself subjectively or the process of evolution through jungian theory and other such caper, right? (Which he does, to name but a few simpler subjects). You'd be willing to tell me that it's irrelevant to try and compare that level of lyrical intelligence to that of any hip hop MC? I find it hard to believe that you believe that.

Koolrunningz, those lyrics are astounding for the most part. In terms of hip hop lyricism. However, all it really boils down to is a guy trying to find meaning with his life. It's nothing a thousand other MCs haven't done. Worse? Sure, but still done.

-AC

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Once again AC doesn't fail to entertain. Another member, another lively debate. Thanks for the laughs my friend.

Yes. Quite a talkative character he is yawn

All this talk of intelligence in lyrics and literary devices,

---------------
AC - My artist is more intelligent than yours
blah blah blah
----------------

You guys are forgeting one thing. "The Hook"

And for me,atleast for right now, my favorite hook is

"Turn off the lights, light a candle"

Ofcourse this could be related to the mood I'm in now 🙂 👿

Originally posted by jerlark386
All this talk of intelligence in lyrics and literary devices,

---------------
AC - My artist is more intelligent than yours
blah blah blah
----------------

You guys are forgeting one thing. "The Hook"

And for me,atleast for right now, my favorite hook is

"Turn off the lights, light a candle"

Ofcourse this could be related to the mood I'm in now 🙂 👿

"I'm On It"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not like comparing those two things is it? Where did you get that from? By your rationale you can't compare a karate expert and a boxing expert? They're both fighting styles.

It's quite obvious that talking about certain subjects requires more intelligence than it does for others, right? I mean surely a smart guy like yourself knows that you can't pull your average joe off the street and discuss alternative universes and the nature of infinity. So let's say Maynard writes about the possibilities of humans being eternal in spirit, humanity as a singular consciousness experiencing itself subjectively or the process of evolution through jungian theory and other such caper, right? (Which he does, to name but a few simpler subjects). You'd be willing to tell me that it's irrelevant to try and compare that level of lyrical intelligence to that of any hip hop MC? I find it hard to believe that you believe that.

Of course, you can compare the 'literary intelligence' of different genres, but it's a futile exercise as each example is ultimately representative to its own genre. There is simply no point in trying to argue that a lyric from a prog-rock group is superior to that of a ghetto-supastar. They are both born into the circle they live in.

Ya catch ma fire?

Originally posted by koolruningz
These are some of my favorite lyrics by Illogic that i think stand up to some of the Rock ones posted earlier, the song is called Hate in a puddle and its about the artists own self loathing:

I hate when it rains, cause in puddles I encounter this guy
Unable to give a rebuttal but swift as the pain flood his eyes
wonderin why he's a gift with no purpose
A priceless one-of-a-kind piece that's worthless
Grounded with no surface
And when he shows one, it's a facade
Cause inside he fights feelings that he was mistake by God
I see his confusion and self-deception
Questions of relevance and intelligence
He holds an illusion of self-acceptance
that he shows to those outside lookin in
He's outside lookin in to his own life; lookin for strength
to carry on as a pawn in this chess game of existance
In his mind he wants to go on to the dawn
and leave the stress that came with existance
Hopin in death he'll find life
Cause as he lives, he roams the dark, tryin to find light
He's made his heart so hard, he doesn't even cry anymore
Cause he's confronted sorrow frequently
His heart's been broken frequently
It's like he's lost some part of him and just haven't found it yet
So in his search, he's left with nothin but questions and regret
All he wants to know is how one day, he's content
and the next day he's cryin
cause his life isn't what he thought life meant
He just wants to be happy, with his love and all
But too often I get messages through telepathic calls
He's askin me through a puddle what more must he endure to continue
But for some reason he knows he most endure to continue

[Chorus]

When I walk past puddles, my reflection calls beggin me
to answer his questions about life and his perceptions
and tell him why I hate him so much
And you wonder why I hate him so much?
Now when I walk past puddles, my reflection calls beggin me
to answer his questions about life, and his perceptions
and tell him why I hate him so much
Damn, I wonder why I hate him so much

Why did I hate him so much?I wondered, pondered on the question
What in my mind caused me to despise my reflection?
I didn't know I just knew when I saw him, how I felt
and hated the fact that he had to play with the cards that he was dealt
He's come in contact with some ill things that can't be explained
Life's extracted his energy to where the pain can't be contained
So to me he comes, sheddin tears like skin
Intimate with some, only the ones he calls friends
If he even exists, he only exists in pain
It's like his life is a myth
and he's been blessed with the gift of shame, I mean
From birth to love he's been betrayed
He's an unknown in how to cope with that pain and dissapointment
he's come to know as he's grown
He feels he stands alone in this world of puddle images
And he awaits the time for when, time finishes
He tries to elevate thought, but he's still chillin in the basement
Awaitin a rebirth of his soul as it fears it's spiritual placement

[Chorus]

God I pray you can give me a purpose or help me find it
Cause on this narrow path of self-damnation, I can't find it
Is it somethin I need to know, some way I need to grow
to get out of this rut, God give me some self-trust
Love is somethin I'm lookin for but I've found it, or have I?
I wanna live but can I, or do I have to die to?
I try to, have life but my life seems kinda worthless
as I'm starin at this puddle
God I pray that you can give me a purpose or help me find it
Cause on this narrow path of self-damnation, I can't find it
Is it somethin I need to know, some way I need to grow
to get out of this rut, God please give me some self-trust
Love is somethin I'm lookin for - thought I found it, or have I?
I wanna live but can I, or do I have to die to?
I try to, have life but my life seems kinda worthless
as I'm starin in this puddle

[Chorus]

I sit alone in dismal silence
Peering into the eyes of my reflection
Wondering if his thoughts are adjacent to my own
What visions of eerie savagery
are passing if purity lurks in the mind of he who I mirror?
Lookin at him I am disgusted
He lacks beauty in all external areas
and internally he seems so confused
Perplexed with this conundrum of life
He proceeds to function or cope, lookin at it realistically
Esteem he lacks, in all areas of existance
Reason unknown
What is the cause of the lack of this self-acceptance?
I mean it seems like he needs constant assurance
Some type of ritual proof that he's even worth the oxygen he breathes
A, light that shines upon him
Is his living in vein?Does he have a purpose?
Answer - eternally unknown

i was gonna post this. 😄