Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What rock do you listen to seeing as "most" of the lyrics don't have much depth and "most" of it is instrumental?-AC
Not much. But saying no MC is better than Maynard is generalism. I want a list to see how many lyricists you claim are better than MC's.
Saying artist like GZA, Doom, (old) Nas, et cetera don't compare lyrically to other bands is a understatement
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Not much. But saying no MC is better than Maynard is generalism. I want a list to see how many lyricists you claim are better than MC's.Saying artist like GZA, Doom, (old) Nas, et cetera don't compare lyrically to other bands is a understatement
There are enough Rock lyricists who are better thenthose rappers at lyrics,but there also are enough who aren't 😬
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Not much. But saying no MC is better than Maynard is generalism. I want a list to see how many lyricists you claim are better than MC's.
Saying that there isn't much depth to rock lyrics is generalising also. Me saying that is easily debateable. I can easily make a case for Maynard being better, where as you are hanging yourself by the neck for even thinking that rock lyrics don't have depth.
As for the list: Maynard, Chris Cornell, Mike Patton, Eddie Vedder, Jason Lyttle, Jacob Bannon, Stephen Brodsky, Thom Yorke, Jerry Cantrell, Bob Dylan (I suppose), Rivers Cuomo (when he writes his best), Carley Coma etc. The list just goes on.
The difference between us is that I understand the lyrics wrote by those men, you don't. As displayed in your previous posts. I have more knowledge to debate with, you don't even listen to rock. So the chances of you having anything but a one-sided bias debate is slim.
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Saying artist like GZA, Doom, (old) Nas, et cetera don't compare lyrically to other bands is a understatement
Indeed, it is an understatement 🙂. We agree.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Saying that there isn't much depth to rock lyrics is generalising also. Me saying that is easily debateable. I can easily make a case for Maynard being better, where as you are hanging yourself by the neck for even thinking that rock lyrics don't have depth.As for the list: Maynard, Chris Cornell, Mike Patton, Eddie Vedder , Jason Lyttle, Jacob Bannon, Stephen Brodsky, Thom Yorke, Jerry Cantrell etc.
The difference between us is that I understand the lyrics wrote by those men, you don't. As displayed in your previous posts.
Indeed, it is an understatement 🙂. We agree.
-AC
Ahh Pearl Jam...Jeremy has great lyrics 🙂
And so do many other PJ songs.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Saying that there isn't much depth to rock lyrics is generalising also. Me saying that is easily debateable. I can easily make a case for Maynard being better, where as you are hanging yourself by the neck for even thinking that rock lyrics don't have depth.As for the list: Maynard, Chris Cornell, Mike Patton, Eddie Vedder, Jason Lyttle, Jacob Bannon, Stephen Brodsky, Thom Yorke, Jerry Cantrell, Bob Dylan (I suppose), Rivers Cuomo (when he writes his best), Carley Coma etc. The list just goes on.
The difference between us is that I understand the lyrics wrote by those men, you don't. As displayed in your previous posts. I have more knowledge to debate with, you don't even listen to rock. So the chances of you having anything but a one-sided bias debate is slim.
😆 Don't jump to conclusions now. I have listened to SOAD, Slipknot, Led Zeppelin, Jet etc. From my point of view rock lyricist to have a certain degree of literature talent. I agree with you on that.
IMO Doom and Canibus use the most intersting literature devices. Just by listening to the first verse your hooked to the song. But I'm not trying to change your opinion though, just saying 😉
And to contrast, here is my list: Aesop, GZA, RZA, Doom, Canibus, Roots, Talib Kweli, Nas, Gangstarr, Prefuse 73, El-P, Inspectah Deck, Kool Keith, Brother Ali, Common, Mos Def, Method Man, Redman(sometimes), Blacklisous, Ice Cube, Del, tc
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
😆 Don't jump to conclusions now. I have listened to SOAD, Slipknot, Led Zeppelin, Jet etc. From my point of view rock lyricist to have a certain degree of literature talent. I agree with you on that.IMO Doom and Canibus use the most intersting literature devices. Just by listening to the first verse your hooked to the song. But I'm not trying to change your opinion though, just saying 😉
Hahaha, oh dear. System of a Down and Led Zeppelin are phenomenal, Slipknot are quite good. Jet? They're a horrible band. You just named a few really well known bands, that doesn't mean you know about rock. So my jumping still stands,
Secondly, you claim rock lyricists have a certain degree of literary talent (you're not giving them enough credit due to lack of understanding and that's quite lame) but then you go and cite Canibus as someone who you believe to be excellent. He knows lots of big words and uses them to impress people who don't know any better, apparantly it works.
Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
:And to contrast, here is my list: Aesop, GZA, RZA, Doom, Canibus, Roots, Talib Kweli, Nas, Gangstarr, Prefuse 73, El-P, Inspectah Deck, Kool Keith, Brother Ali, Common, Mos Def, Method Man, Redman(sometimes), Blacklisous, Ice Cube, Del, tc
A lot of them are excellent hip hop lyricists. None of them are better than any lyricist I mentioned in terms of intellectual ability.
Ice Cube? Del? Nas? Canibus? Give me a break. Taking nothing away from a lot of those MCs but you're really in no place to be making claims. I suggest you become well versed on both areas first.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahaha, oh dear. System of a Down and Led Zeppelin are phenomenal, Slipknot are quite good. Jet? They're a horrible band. You just named a few really well known bands, that doesn't mean you know about rock. So my jumping still stands,Secondly, you claim rock lyricists have a certain degree of literary talent (you're not giving them enough credit due to lack of understanding and that's quite lame) but then you go and cite Canibus as someone who you believe to be excellent. He knows lots of big words and uses them to impress people who don't know any better, apparantly it works.
A lot of them are excellent hip hop lyricists. None of them are better than any lyricist I mentioned in terms of intellectual ability.
Ice Cube? Del? Nas? Canibus? Give me a break. Taking nothing away from a lot of those MCs but you're really in no place to be making claims. I suggest you become well versed on both areas first.
-AC
To be technical, you don't have to know anything about rock to know it has good lyrics. Misunderstanding? The 3 prvious pages of the thread was of you saying Maynard is better than all MC's.
Both areas? I listen to a variety of music my friend. Like I said, don't jump to conclusions 😂
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You claimed that rock is mostly instrumental with mostly no depth to the lyrics.This automatically suggests you are either unable to perceive complex lyrics or you don't know much about rock, which you don't by both your own admission and by actions.
-AC
😄 Let me elaborate for you AC.
I was comparing rock to rap, if you didn't know. I said instrumental because rock is mainly focus upon the beat, bass, tempo, etc. When I said not much depth I was talking about how it doesn't give a vivid "illustration" like hip hop does
People aren't just confusing facts and opinions, they are confusing what is fact, and what is opinion.
It is opinion when it comes down to personal preference.
However, depending on the criteria, it can be factual that a certain lyric is better than another.
When people state that such comparisons aren't comparable by reference to facts, they simply mean that their standard for measurement is personal choice.
I can't say I've ever listened to Tool that much but after browsing through a couple of threads discussing them i am certainly intrigued. I read the lyrics AC posted a few pages back and while they were impressive they didnt strike me as any more powerful or potent than some of the emcees i listen to (Illogic being my favourite lyricist).
A question for you Tool fans, do you hold their lyrics in such high regard just as they are or does the way they are delivered accompanied by the music elevate them to such an elite status in your eyes? Understand i am just curious, i am not interested with entering the hip hop vs rock debate because a) i dont have the time and b) my mind wont be changed anyway. I am just curious about Tool and would like to start listening to them if they are as incredible as i have been reading.
I personally don't ever hold lyrics as high as music no matter who it is because they're not as important as the music. The only reason I've put focus on them now is because it's a debate about lyrics.
I hold Maynard's lyrics in such high regard when discussing lyricism because of a multitude of elements. Certain things he has written mean quite a lot to me but that's not why I hold them as high as I do.
The thing that makes Tool what they are isn't the lyrics, it's the music. All the music the four of them make. They're not a band you can just throw on and tap your foot to, it's an interactive process. So if you have time, patience and intelligence to go with understanding, then you'll be rewarded. If not, I suggest not trying. A lot of people haven't been able to get into them and just write them off (as Inspectah more or less did). Which is sad. Don't judge how incredible they are by what people think because the things you've read are by people who love Tool for different reasons. So just appreciate it how you want to.
The first piece of advice is to not get into them by downloading the odd song, to get everything out of them you need to be a part of the albums.
-AC