X-men vs FF

And I think this particular set of X-Men is more likely to win in a "straight up realistic battle." Take out Shadowcat and Emma Frost and the FF win easily - but they're there. Anti-telepathic devices in a non-prep fight? Based on an assumption that they always have anti-telepathic devices - when most recently in the crossover in which "Emma and Sue fight and Sue is faster than telepathy" they succumb to telepathy?

😬 Oh and I don't see why Emma Frost using telepathy on the FF is a "cheap idealistic argument" considering she's a telepath. It's actually perfectly in character - whereas a Torch nova-blast to kill isn't. What exactly do you expect her to do? Throw rocks?

I think it'd be stupid not to have the anti-telepathic devices on you at all times. Especially if it's just built into the suits. Otherwise it'd be like "The FF have a defense against anything but they always leave it at home so you always get one free shot!"

So you're saying we should give the FF every single item they've ever once built and used even in non-prep fights?

No. I'm saying it wouldn't be the craziest concept in the universe for people who have costumes with anti-telepath devices built-in to actually wear them.

Besides, Reed is a shapeshifter, who apparently have great resistance or possibly immunity to telepathy, and Wynnder insures us that Sue keeps a field up at all times in case of sneak attacks.

Sue would only need to notice white queen and her turncoated teammates to know to put shields around their heads.

Why do u argue about what the F4 have/dont have, can/cannot do, when u apparently don't know much about them. Anti Telepathy isnt a big deal for Reed. Although they may appear rather simple, the F4 costumes r actually pretty complex. Reed's costume at least, functions as a supercomputer integrated into unstable molecules. They also repair themselves.

Like I said, it makes perfect sense for them to always have a defense against telepathy...otherwise Doom, Hyperstorm, and the Skrulls wouldnt go through the trouble of such elaborate plans if all they need is one mediocre mutant telepath to beat the F4.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
No. I'm saying it wouldn't be the craziest concept in the universe for people who have costumes with anti-telepath devices built-in to actually wear them.

Reed isn't a metamorph his powers make his body malleable - you're stretching as much as he can if you're saying his powers would give him telepathic resistance because Mystique has developed resistance.

First off if she keeps a forcefield up all the time she would never get attacked - ever. So I do question the veracity of that claim. Secondly the forcefield kept up all the time is a specialised one that prevents force from entering, yet is ventilated for respiration, and allows light in and out, heat to escape and blocks telepathy? Third, setting up forcefields is specifically mentioned in the "prep rule". Fourth, she can't seal off their heads and protect them from telepathy considering there's be a big ol' hole in the forcefield where the field stops at the neck. Telepathy isn't water. Fifth, you're premise is still based on the illogical Sue>faster>telepathy. She can take over multiple people with ease - even those trained by Charles Xavier to resist telepathy.
And finally Emma doesn't even have to control anyone, she can just do this:

But then a "mediocre telepath" (who schooled the Omega level Rachel Summers due to her skill) using telepathy is just a "cheap idealistic argument". Those X-Men... they should just stick to being "mutant crimefighters."

*sigh* Im not trying to personally offend u by arguing against the X-Men but it seems like u r taking it that way.

By "mediocre telepath" Im not explicitely refering to Emma. Emma isnt mediocre at all! in one of her classic appearances she battled Jean Grey when she possessed the Phoenix Force!

I was pointing out that if the F4 didnt routinely have defense against a power as common as telepathy in the MU, then the why would someone like Doom go through the trouble of nurturing Tyros back to health and granting him the Power Cosmic again so that he could go toe-to-toe with the F4, when he could give some morlock twenty bucks to mind-wipe them then blast them with a disinigrator?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The same people who stroll into the Xavier Institute, full well knowing that telepaths reside there and are subdued by telepathy? You're basing your argument on them always having these (prep) devices - strange definition of "always".

Reed isn't a metamorph his powers make his body malleable - you're stretching as much as he can if you're saying his powers would give him telepathic resistance because Mystique has developed resistance.

First off if she keeps a forcefield up all the time she would never get attacked - ever. So I do question the veracity of that claim. Secondly the forcefield kept up all the time is a specialised one that prevents force from entering, yet is ventilated for respiration, and allows light in and out, heat to escape and blocks telepathy? Third, setting up forcefields is specifically mentioned in the "prep rule". Fourth, she can't seal off their heads and protect them from telepathy considering there's be a big ol' hole in the forcefield where the field stops at the neck. Telepathy isn't water. Fifth, you're premise is still based on the illogical Sue>faster>telepathy. She can take over multiple people with ease - even those trained by Charles Xavier to resist telepathy.

But then a "mediocre telepath" (who schooled the Omega level Rachel Summers due to her skill) using telepathy is just a "cheap idealistic argument". Those X-Men... they should just stick to being "mutant crimefighters."

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The same people who stroll into the Xavier Institute, full well knowing that telepaths reside there and are subdued by telepathy? You're basing your argument on them always having these (prep) devices - strange definition of "always".

Reed isn't a metamorph his powers make his body malleable - you're stretching as much as he can if you're saying his powers would give him telepathic resistance because Mystique has developed resistance.

First off if she keeps a forcefield up all the time she would never get attacked - ever. So I do question the veracity of that claim. Secondly the forcefield kept up all the time is a specialised one that prevents force from entering, yet is ventilated for respiration, and allows light in and out, heat to escape and blocks telepathy?

When you smile do you have to go through the grueling task of remembering which muscles make a smile and then painfully concentrate to maintain it?

Fourth, she can't seal off their heads and protect them from telepathy considering there's be a big ol' hole in the forcefield where the field stops at the neck. Telepathy isn't water.

Fifth, you're premise is still based on the illogical Sue>faster>telepathy. She can take over multiple people with ease - even those trained by Charles Xavier to resist telepathy.

And finally Emma doesn't even have to control anyone, she can just do this:

But then a "mediocre telepath" (who schooled the Omega level Rachel Summers due to her skill) using telepathy is just a "cheap idealistic argument". Those X-Men... they should just stick to being "mutant crimefighters."

To be good you have to be good and the FF are good.

Originally posted by Wynndar
*sigh* Im not trying to personally offend u by arguing against the X-Men but it seems like u r taking it that way.

You're basing you're entire argument on two big assumptions though: That Sue is faster than Emma. That the FF cannot be subdued by telepathic attack because of devices that have been claimed to be always on them and yet have been shown to not be always on them and thus require prep.

Oh and Doom is much too classy and elaborate to just send telepaths to take out the FF - doesn't mean it wouldn't work.

Swanky -
Juggernaut's helmet and armour are mystical in nature if I recall correctly. And Mags helmet is specially designed to prevent telepathy - it's not a forcefield so it doesn't encapsulate.
She's going to free the others who have been mindblasted unconscious? And the point of that would be?
She's mindblasted/taken control of students of Charles Xavier, trained to resist psionic attack, with ease. Tell me - who trained the FF to resist psionic attack?

NO device SPECIFICALLY designed to protect from telepathy has shown to grant actual immunity so far, not even Jugg's helmet.

Btw...since when are there such devices included into the suits of the FF? I don't mean to question that, i just didn't notice it in the comics i have of them.

its not a matter of being quicker unless its a sneak attack on IW because with a constant shield on and anti-telepathic suit always on and she has a degree of telepathy to sense an on coming attack to ramp up her shields. Not just a snap of your finger knock out by a long shot. Take emma outta this and it is a FF victory, right now more a stalemate.

plus i think if IW can withstand emma's first attack her counter will tie her up for along time, multiple forcefields.

I have an issue where X-man took on the FF by himself. It was quite a good issue. he managed to mind control Thing and managed to get him to take out the Torch who didn't think his teammate would be able to do. Then he made thing attack Mr Fantastic an he also mind controlled the Torch to attack Reed, as he did this the Invisible Woman made some forcefields around Nates chest and threatened to squeeze and suffocate him unless he stopped which he did. It turned out it was all a training session and reed had physic bafflers in his ears to not be controlled by Nate. However Jonny and Ben had them too but Nate managed to remove Ben's and control Jonny despite them...........

Yep

Originally posted by willRules
I have an issue where X-man took on the FF by himself. It was quite a good issue. he managed to mind control Thing and managed to get him to take out the Torch who didn't think his teammate would be able to do. Then he made thing attack Mr Fantastic an he also mind controlled the Torch to attack Reed, as he did this the Invisible Woman made some forcefields around Nates chest and threatened to squeeze and suffocate him unless he stopped which he did. It turned out it was all a training session and reed had physic bafflers in his ears to not be controlled by Nate. However Jonny and Ben had them too but Nate managed to remove Ben's and control Jonny despite them...........

So basically yes the FF do have physic bafflers/earpieces but they can be renderred useless quite easily..........

Originally posted by Metalmanx
X-men. They've got the superior firepower here. Especially with the certain characters being on here.

Colossus can take Thing. And with Beast's help, they can toss Thing aside somewhere a mile away.

Cyclops could DEFINITELY keep Human Torch at bay. Hell, he might even take him alone. But if he can't, Colossus can "Fastball Special" Wolverine right at Human Torch when he isn't looking. There goes HT.

Mr. Fantastic could be taken out by Shadowcat alone.

Invisible Woman will have her hands already full with Emma, who I'm sure will be making IW's mind a living hell. If IW is still fighting then, Shadowcat can easily bypass IW's shield and thrash her.

So, like previously stated. The X-men win this fight. Good choice of X-men for the team there.

her weakness is pritty much wolverine lol. if she even trys fazing throu him she gets like nocked out lol. he fine by the way when it happens

yes but wolverine isnt fighting his teamates..........

I know thats what im sayign so besides that she realy doesent have one lol