Originally posted by wolverine8888
I love how wynndar talks crap about me when I havent been posting in this thread lol by the way u know nuthing wynndar lol thing beating wolverine is a joke hell thing when ever wolverine fights to kill or gets realy pissed takes him out in seconds. enemy of the state wait what it take totaly of 5 seconds for thing to be taken down. any ways X-men win this
...judging by the way u write, there is no way u read all those panels in 5 seconds.
And dont take it personal...but u r considered a *gasp!!!* fanboy by most people in this forum, thats why I used your example.
Originally posted by willRules
I agrre but are you guys sure cyke can handle torch, who can go all supernova?
Originally posted by LexCorp
the whole phasing deaths vs nova blast is weak as this is the exceptions, not the regular m.o. 's of the characters. Like saying silver surfer can just change molecules, magneto/ice man can control blood and IW puttin a bubble up someones nose.
I agree...but the F4 are generally more powerful than X-characters. They are a quartet that takes on challenges on the meta-galactic scale. The X-Men have an enormous roster and still get hastled by Black Tom, "?Mammomax?", Avalanche, and Sabretooth. Thus I can see them simply out powering this group.
Originally posted by Wynndar
I agree...but the F4 are generally more powerful than X-characters. They are a quartet that takes on challenges on the meta-galactic scale. The X-Men have an enormous roster and still get hastled by Black Tom, "?Mammomax?", Avalanche, and Sabretooth. Thus I can see them simply out powering this group.
I don't agree that the FF are generally more powerful than X-characters at all. For every member of the FF, there's an X-man that is at least a match in power. Granted, there are a lot more X-men to choose from, so they have the advantage of selection, but still, I don't believe it's a correct assumption that the FF are more powerful.
I don't think anyone can effectively argue that the FF are more powerful than, say, Iceman, Phoenix, Storm, and Colossus. And that's just one combination.
To me, the FF are effective not because they're powerful (aside from Sue and sometimes Johnny, they're not), but because they're well-connected and great with prep and inventions. They have Uatu on speed-dial and are on pretty friendly terms with Galactus. With prep, I think they are a match for most teams and most opponents. The problem is that they don't have that luxury on these threads. They're innately disadvantaged on no-prep battle boards. I find that, relying in their power alone without prep, they usually lose to the likes of the Fearsome Four (who count among their members such powerhouses as Paste Pot Pete). That's why I'd give most permutations of four X-men the win over the FF in most threads.
Hmm...yea the fearsome four years ago...good point.
Phoenix is more powerful than any member of the F4...but that is the PF, not necessarily her own power. Xavier too.
Colossus? When has he done ANYTHING that demonstrated power?
Iceman? Was taken down by lasers and sleeping gas in his last appearance....Jeez the F4 should have called him last time they had trouble with Dr Doom.
Storm...powerful...but loses to F4 characters just as its demonstrated in the Storm v HT thread
Originally posted by Wynndar
Hmm...yea the fearsome four years ago...good point.Phoenix is more powerful than any member of the F4...but that is the PF, not necessarily her own power. Xavier too.
Colossus? When has he done ANYTHING that demonstrated power?
Iceman? Was taken down by lasers and sleeping gas in his last appearance....Jeez the F4 should have called him last time they had trouble with Dr Doom.
Storm...powerful...but loses to F4 characters just as its demonstrated in the Storm v HT thread
Fearsome Four "years" ago? They last beat the FF during Pacheco's run, within the last four years. You make it sound like it was AGES ago.
Phoenix, as one of GS's essays will tell you, is one with the force. She's the ultimate expression of her mutation. It's her own power. Are are you saying Xavier taps into the Phoenix Force as well???
Colossus did better against Gladiator than the entire Fantastic Four, who got completely manhandled until they introduced...you guessed it, prep time and inventions, which again prove the point I was making before. Thing didn't last more than a couple of panels. Colossus lasted several pages and brought down entire structures in the fight. He also did well against the Juggernaut. He's more than a match for the Thing.
The Iceman who was taken down by lasers was in the HoM. His history was different as a result, as was his training and memories. While everybody had basically the same powers, their adeptness with those powers vary. HoM Iceman never trained with Emma, never trained with Mikhail, never got boosted by Prosh. So he never learned to put his powers to full use and overcome psychosomatic defeats like being torn apart by lasers in HoM that way he did in 616. He was basically at X-factor level, when he was much more beatable. Your example is meaningless. Regular 616 Iceman is a beast because of his training.
Since when was board opinion used as evidence of what would happen in a comic? Because some posters said Storm would lose to Iceman, suddenly we're referencing that as proof of some kind? If you want to use official proof, you have to go to their actual encounter where, as luck would have it, Storm and HT did actually fight.
I don't think I need to discuss the outcome. We all know what it was.
Human Torch gets put out by things like sprinklers, fire hydrants and foam. MULTIPLE TIMES. You call that powerful?
Yea u've got some good points. Board opinion doesnt mean much...but I was moreso refering to the points and scans people have made.
Colossus lost to Gladiator who was scaled down in comparison to his fight against the F4...Byrne had him survive a solar system destroying explosion without a scratch, then had him pick up the Baxter building. Against Colossus they traded some punches but it was clear Gladiator wasnt making the kind of showing he was against the F4...and Colossus didnt make the guy flinch. Gladiator went all out against the Thing knocked him out eventually...and minutes later Thing got up and punched the bus Gladiator buried him with into the sky. Then he manhandled a Skrull imitating Colossus with superior powers. In the end the F4 beat the Skrulls and Gladiator. We could argue all day about Colossus and Thing, but in the end Thing has way more accomplishments and is clearly demonstrated as being more powerful.
I guess u dont read comic books much lately if u say Iceman is HOM in Black Panther #8 or X-Men #175...cuz Im pretty sure its 616...and yes he was taken down by Lasers and sleeping gas...he's not immortal or invulnerable...or sh!t He froze some mutant crocadiles and X-Fans treat him like a Sky-Father!
Of course we know the outcome of this fight...The F4 r the Earth's first defense from cosmic threats. The X-Men mostly stick to fighting evil mutants. Marvel's most accomplished and experienced team against one who's characters and roster are practically disposable, yea it would be interesting to read but the F4 would come out on top.
Originally posted by Wynndar
Yea u've got some good points. Board opinion doesnt mean much...but I was moreso refering to the points and scans people have made.Colossus lost to Gladiator who was scaled down in comparison to his fight against the F4...Byrne had him survive a solar system destroying explosion without a scratch, then had him pick up the Baxter building. Against Colossus they traded some punches but it was clear Gladiator wasnt making the kind of showing he was against the F4...and Colossus didnt make the guy flinch. Gladiator went all out against the Thing knocked him out eventually...and minutes later Thing got up and punched the bus Gladiator buried him with into the sky. Then he manhandled a Skrull imitating Colossus with superior powers. In the end the F4 beat the Skrulls and Gladiator. We could argue all day about Colossus and Thing, but in the end Thing has way more accomplishments and is clearly demonstrated as being more powerful.
I guess u dont read comic books much lately if u say Iceman is HOM in Black Panther #8 or X-Men #175...cuz Im pretty sure its 616...and yes he was taken down by Lasers and sleeping gas...he's not immortal or invulnerable...or sh!t He froze some mutant crocadiles and X-Fans treat him like a Sky-Father!
Of course we know the outcome of this fight...The F4 r the Earth's first defense from cosmic threats. The X-Men mostly stick to fighting evil mutants. Marvel's most accomplished and experienced team against one who's characters and roster are practically disposable, yea it would be interesting to read but the F4 would come out on top.
Wow. Way to severely downgrade the "evil mutants" the X-men fight.
I can think of many X-men enemies that would destroy the Fantastic Four.
Magneto.
Juggernaut (Classic)
Apocalypse.
Polaris (when she was an enemy).
Selene.
Scarlet Witch.
Shadow King.
Those are some.
If the X-men didn't take out these "evil mutants", they would take over the world. The FF couldn't do a thing to stop these enemies.
By the way, didn't Colossus "manhandle" a Hulk-Skrull? Yes, yes he did.
And I could be wrong, but to my knowledge at least, HOM isn't 616. Again, I could be wrong.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wow. Way to severely downgrade the "evil mutants" the X-men fight.I can think of many X-men enemies that would destroy the Fantastic Four.
Magneto.-------------------------No
Juggernaut (Classic)------------No
Apocalypse.---------------------No
Polaris (when she was an enemy).-------No
Selene.--------------------------No
Scarlet Witch.-------------------No-----And not an enemy of the Xmen.
Shadow King.-------------------NoThose are some.
If the X-men didn't take out these "evil mutants", they would take over the world. The FF couldn't do a thing to stop these enemies.
By the way, didn't Colossus "manhandle" a Hulk-Skrull?
Yes, yes he did.------------------------------The big problem no rage increased strength for the Skrulk...🙂And I could be wrong, but to my knowledge at least, HOM isn't 616. Again, I could be wrong.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I think the "No"s are that he thinks those villains in a non-prep would lose to the FF. The Shadow King, Classic Juggernaut, Magneto, Apocalypse (if not written as pathetic), would most definitely kill the FF in a non-prep battle. Selene too.
You don't think Scarlet Witch or Polaris could do it, too?