Mormons

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Philippians 2:1-2
"If therefore there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Lets see the first one, means three different people.

The second also means three differnt people who have one purpose, which is where the confusion came in. People tend to believe that since they have one purpose they are one great being. But I ask if they are one person, Does God have a body of flesh and bone? most christians I ask say he doesn't but of course if God is Christ and Christ is God, and Christ had a body of flesh and bone, then God has a body of flesh and bone. and if God and Christ are the Holy Ghost, then the Holy Ghost has a body of flesh and bone, and therefore cannot dwell within men because one being of flesh and boen cannot dwell within another man, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit and therefore can dwell within a man, and be everywhere at one, because he is a spirit but if all are one and one are all then they all must share the exact same qualities of having flesh and bone, and I attest that the Holy Ghost does not, but only the Father and the Son have a body of flesh and bone.

and the third one shows that Christ is the son of God, meaning that he can't be the same, because how can you be your own son?

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Have you read the Bible Regulus? If so, where is your scripture backing and support?

You are the one attacking.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Philippians 2:1-2
"If therefore there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

You did not state what these verses were in reference to as far as the discussion. These verses a wonderful though, and it is nice to see that you can cut and paste. They do not threaten the validity of the LDS church in any way, and don't support the arguments you have presented.

How many people's word are there in support of Christ? The only ones that can be considered witnesses to us in this time are those listed in the Bible, and it is a fact that probably the only one that wrote his own words in it was Paul. I hope you don't rely on these only to support any belief you have in the Bible, at least not if that is your issue with the witnesses of the Book of Mormon.

Does this matter in any way? If you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet then it works, if you don't it doesn't. The attack is worthless in that it is only valid if Joseph Smith was not a prophet, a fact that is being discussed at the moment.

Originally posted by Regret
You are the one attacking.

You did not state what these verses were in reference to as far as the discussion. These verses a wonderful though, and it is nice to see that you can cut and paste. They do not threaten the validity of the LDS church in any way, and don't support the arguments you have presented.

You will never listen. Well, I shouldn't say never. 😕

Originally posted by Eis
I'm interested to know how Joseph Smith made the translation of the the plates because the only place I've heard anything about it was from South Park... [/B]

From an angel Eis, but that doesn't make it another Gospel... 😆

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
You will never listen. Well, I shouldn't say never. 😕

And you should never force someone to listen. All things should be done with care for the other person. If you force medicine down their throat, then they will only spit it back up. 😄

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Have you read the Bible Regulus? If so, where is your scripture backing and support?

want scripture backing and support? okay I can do that

the question is what should I support? The fact that they are three seperate beings, the fact that it is written in the Bible that there would be another book of scripture. or that the fact that it never says there would never be another prophet in the latter days or the fact that what most christians believe to be heaven actually has three seperate glories. Or should I not use a scripture to support the fact that the Bible has been translated many times and lost many valuable truths, because people delibritely took them out.

I guess i'll start with the fact that the trinity is three seperate beings.

first as Regret has already stated.

Acts 7:55-56

55:But he (Stephen) being full of the Holy Ghost(1 being), looked up steadfastly into heaven and saw the Glory of God(2 beings), and Jesus(3 beings) standing on the right hand of God
56:And said Behold I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God.

Matt. 28: 19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father(1), and of the Son(2), and of the Holy Ghost(3):

and I could give many more on this subject if necessary.

The Bible does state that there would be more scripture then the Bible.

Ezekiel 37:15-19

15The word of the Lord c`ame again unot me saying
16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah(the record of the Jews, or the Bible), and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it for Joseph, the stick of Ephraim(the record of the rest of the house of Israel or the Book of Mormon)and for all the house of Isreal hsi companions
17 And join them one to another into one stick and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these
19.Say unto them thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will take the stick of Joseph which is in the hand of Ephraim and the tribes of Isreal his fellows and will put them with him even with the stick of Judah and make them one stick and they shall be one in mine hand

Never anywhere in the Bible does it say there can't be prophets today, meaning that Joseph Smith could be a prophet, and if he wasn't well, I know there is one on the earth today so why could it not be Joseph? after all he was the one that brought the stick of Ephraim to the world

Three seperate Glories in heaven
1 Corintians 15:40-41
40: There are also celetial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41: There is one glory of the sun(1), and another glory of the moon(2), and anotehr glory of the stars(3), for one star differeth from another star in glory

Originally posted by Eis
What the hell? I'm no Christian.

Sorry, figured you'd have a positive stance on the Bible before attacking the BoM.

Originally posted by Eis
It does matter to me otherwise I wouldn't be asking, I'm interested to know how Joseph Smith made the translation of the the plates because the only place I've heard anything about it was from South Park...

The Prophet Joseph Smith did not leave us a detailed account of the daily translation process of the Book of Mormon but said it was accomplished through the “mercy of God, by the power of God.” (D&C 1:29.) His usual procedure was to dictate to a scribe as he translated from the plates. Oliver Cowdery was the principal scribe and was assisted by Martin Harris, Emma Smith, probably John Whitmer, and an additional unidentified person. The words on the manuscript were essentially the Prophet’s, but each scribe added his or her own spelling variations.

There are varying "stories" of more than this, but this is what we have. We do believe he used the Urim and Thummim in some way

Here is something:

L. Tom Perry, “Proclaim My Gospel from Land to Land,” Ensign, May 1989, 13

After the 116 pages were lost when Martin Harris was allowed to take them home, the real translation began on April 7, 1829, two days after Oliver Cowdery arrived in Harmony, Pennsylvania, to serve as the Prophet’s scribe. By May 15, five weeks later, they had reached the account of the Savior’s ministry to the Nephites as contained in 3 Nephi, chapter 11.

By June 11 they had translated the last plates of Mormon, and it was on June 11 that the Prophet applied for a copyright. By June 30 the book was finished—from start to finish, no more than eighty-five days in translation time. However, with all that went on during these eighty-five days, it is apparent there were only sixty to sixty-five days in which the actual translation could have occurred.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
From an angel Eis, but that doesn't make it another Gospel... 😆

As far as the ridiculous-o-meter goes, you're both way high.

...but of course, no disrespect. 😐

Originally posted by Regret
Sorry, figured you'd have a positive stance on the Bible before attacking the BoM.

The Prophet Joseph Smith did not leave us a detailed account of the daily translation process of the Book of Mormon but said it was accomplished through the “mercy of God, by the power of God.” (D&C 1:29.) His usual procedure was to dictate to a scribe as he translated from the plates. Oliver Cowdery was the principal scribe and was assisted by Martin Harris, Emma Smith, probably John Whitmer, and an additional unidentified person. The words on the manuscript were essentially the Prophet’s, but each scribe added his or her own spelling variations.

There are varying "stories" of more than this, but this is what we have. We do believe he used the Urim and Thummim in some way

Here is something:

I didn't attack the BoM.

And thanks, so there was no hat involved right? 😂

Here goes Joseph Smith again...

"Where I have preached on the subject of diety, it has been on the duality of God's."

Joseph Smith, Teachings Of The Prophet p370

God says, "I am the Lord and there is no other, besides Me, there is no god."

Isaiah 45:5

God says, "Before Me no god was formed, nor shall there be after Me."

Isaiah 43:10

😱

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Here goes Joseph Smith again...

"Where I have preached on the subject of diety, it has been on the duality of God's."

Joseph Smith, Teachings Of The Prophet p370

God says, "I am the Lord and there is no other, besides Me, there is no god."

Isaiah 45:5

God says, "Before Me no god was formed, nor shall there be after Me."

Isaiah 43:10

😱

rolleyes1 Until you defend your Trinity as single entity belief, these are not threats to the above statement. You cannot unequivocally defend your stance, and you cannot unequivocally deny ours. Given this, your post is just fluff until you have done such.

The Bible uses the term Gods when describing deity frequently. Which Biblical references are correct? Or are they both true? Is interpretation an issue with these verses?

Originally posted by Regret
rolleyes1 Until you defend your Trinity as single entity belief, these are not threats to the above statement. You cannot unequivocally defend your stance, and you cannot unequivocally deny ours. Given this, your post is just fluff until you have done such.

The Bible uses the term Gods when describing deity frequently. Which Biblical references are correct? Or are they both true? Is interpretation an issue with these verses?

God is Holy Spirit, Jesus and Father. Any questions? Let's get back to the Prophet Joseph Smith. You said you wanted me to start a thread didn't you? They grouped it together here. Sorry Regret.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
God says, "Before Me no god was formed, nor shall there be after Me."

Thank goodness before and after god there will be a time without religion 😎

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
God is Holy Spirit, Jesus and Father. Any questions? Let's get back to the Prophet Joseph Smith. You said you wanted me to start a thread didn't you? They grouped it together here. Sorry Regret.

This is your belief, but it isn't defended adequately to deny the possibility of mine as far as Trinity goes. I believe that the Bible is ambiguous enough on the matter that neither of us will convince the other. So, given this I think we must agree to disagree on the nature of the Trinity.

Our arguments in the future should not include evidence that requires either of these beliefs as support for the argument. Do you agree?

Yes, they did, it's alright. They must not have believed it would be easier to have the two separate.

Originally posted by Eis
I didn't attack the BoM.

And thanks, so there was no hat involved right? 😂

There was sometimes. There were many methods of translation, Urim and thumim, seerstone (which was placed in a hat), and direct revelation being the more talked about. But the records are clear that no matter where he was seeing the translation, he knew it came directly from God.

Originally posted by docb77
There was sometimes. There were many methods of translation, Urim and thumim, seerstone (which was placed in a hat), and direct revelation being the more talked about. But the records are clear that no matter where he was seeing the translation, he knew it came directly from God.

It's when you push your believes into other people that I don't like it.

Originally posted by Regret
This is your belief, but it isn't defended adequately to deny the possibility of mine as far as Trinity goes. I believe that the Bible is ambiguous enough on the matter that neither of us will convince the other. So, given this I think we must agree to disagree on the nature of the Trinity.

Our arguments in the future should not include evidence that requires either of these beliefs as support for the argument. Do you agree?

Yes, they did, it's alright. They must not have believed it would be easier to have the two separate.

I will agree with you Regret to disagree with you in this area of the Godhead. I will agree with you that neither one of us will convince the other otherwise on this one. 😄

Originally posted by Eis
And thanks, so there was no hat involved right? 😂

😆 No, no parlour tricks used 😉

So before they merged the other thread with this one I had broght up the civil war prophecy. Discuss.