D&C 84:15,31
15 And from Noah till aEnoch, through the lineage of their fathers;31 Therefore, as I said aconcerning the sons of Moses—for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable boffering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated cspot as I have appointed-
The term generation is one of the issues here. Here is a Bible quote that does the same thing:
Matthew 24:34
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Generation is in reference to a period of time. Not to a generation as is commonly described by such a statement. The church still plans on building a temple there when it can get the rights to do so.
Also, there is the fact that the building of the Temple was a commandment, not a prophecy. Here is the verse where the "prophecy" comes from:
D&C 57:3
3 And thus saith the Lord your God, if you will receive wisdom here is wisdom. Behold, the place which is now called Independence is the center place; and a spot for the temple is lying westward, upon a lot which is not far from the courthouse.
This states that the Church should build the temple there. Verse 83 is only a statement that the church was still going to build it.
That it was a commandment and not a "failed prophecy" is indicated by the Lord's words to Joseph Smith in
D&C 124:49-51
49 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings.
50 And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws and commandments I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord God.
51 Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God.
Also God can change his mind dependant on the actions of men.
Jeremiah 18:7-10:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
A temple would be the good mentioned here: "I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them."
Even the reference to plant exists
D&C 57:15
15 And now concerning the gathering—Let the bishop and the agent make preparations for those families which have been commanded to come to this land, as soon as possible, and plant them in their inheritance.
Originally posted by .😖pace Opera:.
im sorry, but all of these verses are taken from a text that praises the christian god but denies the 'no adding or taking away from the original scripture' rule written in the original scriptures. so therefore, mormonism is the only one-word oxymoron.
Deut. 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Sorry, most of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament fit into the same category using nearly the exact same words. Also, Revelations 22:18 refers to the book of Revelations and not to the entire Bible.
If you can rebut the Deuteronomy verse go ahead. But make sure it can't be applied to the Revelations verse as well.
Originally posted by .😖pace Opera:.
im sorry, but all of these verses are taken from a text that praises the christian god but denies the 'no adding or taking away from the original scripture' rule written in the original scriptures. so therefore, mormonism is the only one-word oxymoron.
Basically speaking Joseph Smith had a bible close at hand and did a little adding and taking away of his own.
The Book Of Mormon suspiciously has hundreds of quotes from the King James Version of the Bible and even some whole chapters!!: See Isaiah Chapters 2-14 and compare these to Nephi Chapters 12-24. Also while everyone is doing there Bible and Book Of Mormon comparisons look up Isaiah Chapters 48 and 49 and compare them to Nephi 20-21. Why not add Isaiah Chapters 50 and 51 and compare them too Nephi Chapters 7 and 8.
The most funny part about all this is that the Mormon Church claims that a prophet called Nephi made these golden plates in 600-500 B.C. but the King James version wasn't published until 1611 AD.
Question: Either the prophet Nephi needed more to write about and magically transported to the future to copy out of the Bible or most likely Joseph Smith copied out of the King James Version which was available to him at the time. You make a very powerful and damaging point Space Opera.
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Basically speaking Joseph Smith had a bible close at hand and did a little adding and taking away of his own.
Basically speaking the apostles had a bible close at hand and did a little adding and taking away of their own.
Doesn't change the Deuteronomy or Revelations quotes. If Revelations implies what Space Opera state then so does Deuteronomy and the apostles are guilty of the same.
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Basically speaking Joseph Smith had a bible close at hand and did a little adding and taking away of his own.
If you assume that he was a fraud, he added a lot actually. Enough that it becomes nonsensical to think that he did it himself. or that anyone from that era did it for that matter. Explain the Chiasmus and other Hebraisms that aren't in the "copied" portions of the texts. Explain the things that were once thought to be Joseph Smith screw-ups that were later shown to authenticate the book of mormon (ex. a male named alma)
And as far as that goes, explain the prophecies that Joseph Smith made that have already come to pass.
Originally posted by docb77
If you assume that he was a fraud, he added a lot actually. Enough that it becomes nonsensical to think that he did it himself. or that anyone from that era did it for that matter. Explain the Chiasmus and other Hebraisms that aren't in the "copied" portions of the texts. Explain the things that were once thought to be Joseph Smith screw-ups that were later shown to authenticate the book of mormon (ex. a male named alma)And as far as that goes, explain the prophecies that Joseph Smith made that have already come to pass.
The chiasmus Joseph Smith or one of those that were scribes could have learned about through study. There were one or two works in publication at the time that explained the chiasmus method of writing.
Just want to make sure we know these things exist. Chiasmus isn't a valid argument due to the discovery of these text/s.
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Like I said earlier Regret. I want to be friendly to you and your friends here...It's Joseph Smith that I'm after.
I rebutted the stance that Joseph Smith violated what is stated in Revelations. You did not rebut my statement that Deuteronomy 4:2 stated the same thing. You have not presented an argument I have not rebutted. I have provided rebuttals you have not provided a response to.
If a statement against Joseph Smith, that in your opinion proves he was false, can be applied to one you also believe was a prophet then your argument is invalid unless you are able to rebut.
Regret,
Did you know that the book Doctrines & Covenents had to be revised to keep from showing 3 predictions of Joseph Smith that did not come true as he predicted?
Did you know that 2 years after it's printing The Book of Coomandments in 1833 there were 65,000 changes although the first version was supposedly direct word-for-word revelations from God?
Don't believe me? See the notorized photostat copies in (Joseph Smith begins his work Vol 1 & 2).
It doesn't look good for Joseph Smith my friends... 😮