Mormons

Originally posted by debbiejo
I heard mormons have jammies with holes in them for sex...........Is this true?

If anyone is interested, the 176th Semiannual LDS General Conference is going this weekend. The sessions are:

10:00AM-12:00PM, 2:00-4:00PM, Mountain Standard Time, Saturday and Sunday

The Conference is broadcast via Internet and in some areas television and radio.

For information on how to listen via Internet enter this address into your browser:

[ ]www.lds.org/broadcast/gc/0,5161,7050,00.html[ ] (remove the brackets)

Sorry, don't know the tag to keep the forum from messing the address up.

No Speedos, eh?.........

Originally posted by debbiejo
No Speedos, eh?.........

Originally posted by Regret
For functional purposes, Speedos would be acceptable during swimming. In general, no.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Speedos are not functional.......In fact I don't like them.

Favorite General Conference talks anyone?

I liked that first one from the Saturday morning session. The world could use a bit more healing.

Originally posted by Regret
If one is a swimmer, a Speedo is functional. A Speedo affords less drag on a swimmer. There are functional reasons for the use of a Speedo, albeit this functionality has a specific behavior/event tied to it.

✅

Originally posted by docb77
Favorite General Conference talks anyone?

I liked that first one from the Saturday morning session. The world could use a bit more healing.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Regret, do you believe as the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ has always existed and that (in His incarnation only) He was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary (who was a virgin at the time)?

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon385.htm

Here is the statement of Brigham Young - prophet mid 1800's that Joseph F. Smith supports:

"When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in
his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the
Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a
tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as
the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam
and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."
(JoD 1:50-51, also "Answers", vol. 5, p. 121).

To illustrate more clearly that BY meant that Christ's conception was actual
physical sex, here is another of his statements:
"The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it
was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten
of his father, as we were of our fathers." (JoD, vol. 8, p. 115).

Any other Mormons or former Mormons out there who care to address this issue/question? How could a Mormon believe this? I have said this before and I will say it again: Mormons are not the same as Christians.

http://www.bible.ca/mor-god-had-sex-with-mary.htm

And why not...............that is THEIR book.

And they believe it jsut like you believe YOUR little book JIA.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Regret, do you believe as the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ has always existed and that (in His incarnation only) He was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary (who was a virgin at the time)?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Here is the statement of Brigham Young - prophet mid 1800's that Joseph F. Smith supports:

"When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in
his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the
Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a
tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as
the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam
and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."
(JoD 1:50-51, also "Answers", vol. 5, p. 121).

To illustrate more clearly that BY meant that Christ's conception was actual
physical sex, here is another of his statements:
"The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it
was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten
of his father, as we were of our fathers." (JoD, vol. 8, p. 115).

Any other Mormons or former Mormons out there who care to address this issue/question? How could a Mormon believe this? I have said this before and I will say it again: Mormons are not the same as Christians.

Sorry to be so gruff, but JIA, you're an idiot if you think that mormons believe your interpretation of this.

From the bible:

Luke 1:35

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

It is not stated in the bible that the Christ-child was conceived by the Holy Ghost. It is stated that the Holy Ghost was there. It also says that "the power of the Highest" would be a part of it. Now, my understanding is that the "Highest" is God, maybe you have a different opinion (since you seem to worship only your interpretation of the Bible). This being said, let me show you what the LDS really believe.

God is the literal physical father of Jesus Christ. No mormon claims to know how this took place. Let me make that clear - NO LDS person has said how it happened. Only idiots like JIA who just want to make the church look bad.

As for the Brigham Young/Joseph F. Smith quotes - Mormons believe that God works via a higher understanding of natural laws. In other words, God can do more than us because his understanding of things is greater than ours. With modern technology it is possible for a woman to have a child without sex. In fact, it happens quite often. If this is possible for man to do, why should God be restricted? Mormons believe that Mary was a virgin at the time of Jesus birth.

So, JIA, if you really want to know what the Mormons believe, I sugguest that you ask actual, knowledgeable Mormons. Rather than reading anti-Mormon BS and jumping to the worst possible conclusion. Same goes for any other religion too.

Originally posted by docb77
Sorry to be so gruff, but JIA, you're an idiot if you think that mormons believe your interpretation of this.

From the bible:

It is not stated in the bible that the Christ-child was conceived by the Holy Ghost. It is stated that the Holy Ghost was there. It also says that "the power of the Highest" would be a part of it. Now, my understanding is that the "Highest" is God, maybe you have a different opinion (since you seem to worship only your interpretation of the Bible). This being said, let me show you what the LDS really believe.

God is the literal physical father of Jesus Christ. No mormon claims to know how this took place. Let me make that clear - NO LDS person has said how it happened. Only idiots like JIA who just want to make the church look bad.

As for the Brigham Young/Joseph F. Smith quotes - Mormons believe that God works via a higher understanding of natural laws. In other words, God can do more than us because his understanding of things is greater than ours. With modern technology it is possible for a woman to have a child without sex. In fact, it happens quite often. If this is possible for man to do, why should God be restricted? Mormons believe that Mary was a virgin at the time of Jesus birth.

So, JIA, if you really want to know what the Mormons believe, I sugguest that you ask actual, knowledgeable Mormons. Rather than reading anti-Mormon BS and jumping to the worst possible conclusion. Same goes for any other religion too.

I did ask and he ran and side-stepped my question on a technicality. Telling me that my post was not relevant to the thread.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Regret, do you believe as the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ has always existed and that (in His incarnation only) He was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary (who was a virgin at the time)?

Originally posted by Regret
Again, wrong topic for this thread.

So then I asked Regret again in the Mormon thread (the whole time I waited patiently for Regret to respond, his forum name was on screen for several minutes afterwards indicating that he had read my question, then, afterwards his name disappeared) but he chose to side-step my question again. The thing that is most amusing is that we all make non-thread specific remarks everyday, all the time. But this one time that I ask Regret a pointed question concerning Mormon doctrine, he skirts the entire question (unbelievable to me) and takes issue with the fact that I posted my question in the wrong thread.

Incredible.

That has got to be the best example of evasion that I have seen thus far on this forum. Maybe it wasn't but it sure looked like it.

Not to mention docb77 the fact that I asked you this question first and you did not respond until today.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I did ask and he ran and side-stepped my question on a technicality. Telling me that my post was not relevant to the thread.

Your post was not relevant to why an atheist is atheist. I did not run or side step your question on a technicality, I do not want my thread devolving into a Biblical discussion, nor do I want to discuss Christ in that thread, unless it becomes relevant through discussion with the resident atheists. I, for the most part, avoid commenting on off topic subjects in other threads unless I see value in the direction the off-topic discussion has taken.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So then I asked Regret again in the Mormon thread (the whole time I waited patiently for Regret to respond, his forum name was on screen for several minutes afterwards indicating that he had read my question, then, afterwards his name disappeared) but he chose to side-step my question again. The thing that is most amusing is that we all make non-thread specific remarks everyday, all the time. But this one time that I ask Regret a pointed question concerning Mormon doctrine, he skirts the entire question (unbelievable to me) and takes issue with the fact that I posted my question in the wrong thread.

Incredible.

That has got to be the best example of evasion that I have seen thus far on this forum. Maybe it wasn't but it sure looked like it.

Not to mention docb77 the fact that I asked you this question first and you did not respond until today.[/color]

I must use some language that may be taken as insulting of you, but it is meant as an honest response to what I feel was a personal attack, and due to this it is justified. If the moderators disagree, I will avoid such comments in the future.

You are either extremely stupid or extremely impatient or some other form of these phrases. I did not respond because I did not have enough time to respond. This forum is not the center of my life, and so other items are often much more pressing and of much more value to me than responding to you, even if I am on-line for a few minutes following your post.

Now, you have an imbecilic level of understanding of Mormon Doctrine. You like many detractors take the language and text of Mormon leaders out of context, and interpret their statements via your false understanding of the Bible and of our beliefs. You are unable to find text supporting your accusations, instead you cut and paste from some other detractors site to attack the LDS Church. Do some true research, and read the entire lecture/article that you are quoting, search for related text that may clarify the statements, and if these things are too difficult for you to accomplish, actually ask us what our belief is concerning the text prior to attacking it.

I have already told you that I believe the majority your interpretation of the Bible to be extremely erroneous, and rather naive and narrow-minded in its assumptions. Given this, for you to understand our stance on many subjects you need to understand our interpretation regardless of your belief.

Now,

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon385.htm

Here is the statement of Brigham Young - prophet mid 1800's that Joseph F. Smith supports:

"When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in
his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the
Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a
tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as
the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam
and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."
(JoD 1:50-51, also "Answers", vol. 5, p. 121).

To illustrate more clearly that BY meant that Christ's conception was actual
physical sex, here is another of his statements:
"The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it
was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten
of his father, as we were of our fathers." (JoD, vol. 8, p. 115).

Any other Mormons or former Mormons out there who care to address this issue/question? How could a Mormon believe this? I have said this before and I will say it again: Mormons are not the same as Christians.

http://www.bible.ca/mor-god-had-sex-with-mary.htm

We, Mormons, believe God has a physical body, like ours, but perfected. We believe that God continues to have offspring. We believe that God uses science. As Docb explained, natural action means in line with natural laws. There are a multitude of ways that Jesus could have been conceived. "He [Christ] partook of flesh and blood", Christ took a mortal/physical body.

The entire aspect of sexual relations is brought up by Mormon detractors and is not in line with Mormon Doctrine. Such an occurrence would not leave Mary a Virgin, and thus the concept that God had sexual relations with Mary is blatantly false. Such an act would also cause Mary to have sinned in having had sexual relations with someone not her husband, such is in strict violation of some of our most sacred beliefs. It is a rather sick and demented mind that could come up with such concepts, I am glad that these concepts are not found in Mormon Doctrine.

JIA, before posting detractors statements about Mormon belief you should do some research and find out whether the attack is even valid, this attack is baseless and is wholly existent only in the sick and demented minds of people I believe should not be termed Christians.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Regret, do you believe as the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ has always existed and that (in His incarnation only) He was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary (who was a virgin at the time)?

Originally posted by Regret
Your post was not relevant to why an atheist is atheist. I did not run or side step your question on a technicality, I do not want my thread devolving into a Biblical discussion, nor do I want to discuss Christ in that thread, unless it becomes relevant through discussion with the resident atheists. I, for the most part, avoid commenting on off topic subjects in other threads unless I see value in the direction the off-topic discussion has taken.

I must use some language that may be taken as insulting of you, but it is meant as an honest response to what I feel was a personal attack, and due to this it is justified. If the moderators disagree, I will avoid such comments in the future.

You are either extremely stupid or extremely impatient or some other form of these phrases. I did not respond because I did not have enough time to respond. This forum is not the center of my life, and so other items are often much more pressing and of much more value to me than responding to you, even if I am on-line for a few minutes following your post.

Now, you have an imbecilic level of understanding of Mormon Doctrine. You like many detractors take the language and text of Mormon leaders out of context, and interpret their statements via your false understanding of the Bible and of our beliefs. You are unable to find text supporting your accusations, instead you cut and paste from some other detractors site to attack the LDS Church. Do some true research, and read the entire lecture/article that you are quoting, search for related text that may clarify the statements, and if these things are too difficult for you to accomplish, actually ask us what our belief is concerning the text prior to attacking it.

I have already told you that I believe the majority your interpretation of the Bible to be extremely erroneous, and rather naive and narrow-minded in its assumptions. Given this, for you to understand our stance on many subjects you need to understand our interpretation regardless of your belief.

Now,

We, Mormons, believe God has a physical body, like ours, but perfected. We believe that God continues to have offspring. We believe that God uses science. As Docb explained, natural action means in line with natural laws. There are a multitude of ways that Jesus could have been conceived. "He [Christ] partook of flesh and blood", Christ took a mortal/physical body.

The entire aspect of sexual relations is brought up by Mormon detractors and is not in line with Mormon Doctrine. Such an occurrence would not leave Mary a Virgin, and thus the concept that God had sexual relations with Mary is blatantly false. Such an act would also cause Mary to have sinned in having had sexual relations with someone not her husband, such is in strict violation of some of our most sacred beliefs. It is a rather sick and demented mind that could come up with such concepts, I am glad that these concepts are not found in Mormon Doctrine.

JIA, before posting detractors statements about Mormon belief you should do some research and find out whether the attack is even valid, this attack is baseless and is wholly existent only in the sick and demented minds of people I believe should not be termed Christians.

Also, this question is vague and not well worded. You need to restate it clearly if this post does not wholly respond to it.

Vague? Are you saying that you honestly do not know or understand what I have asked or what I want to know?

Regret, do you believe that Jesus Christ has always existed?

And you ask me if I am stupid. I don't believe that either one of us or anyone on this forum fits the definition of stupid. You state that my understanding of Mormon Doctrine is imbecilic. I don't think that my understanding is the issue. The fact that Mormon Doctrine contradicts Scripture is what is the issue and for someone with common sense not to see that wouldn't that be imbecilic? I am not calling you that I am asking a rhetorical question to get you to see a valid point or question.

I understand what you believe is just that your belief. But...how can God have a physical body as you claim when Jesus Christ said that God is a Spirit? If anybody ought to know what God looks like it ought to be His Son Who has been with Him since eternity. But yet you say that God has a physical body. There ain't (I mean is not ) one Scripture verse in the Bible to support what you believe.

The Bible clearly states how Jesus was conceived so why do you say that God uses science and that there are a multitude of ways that Jesus could have been conceived? There isn't a multitude of ways, there is only one way: by the power of the Holy Spirit. God bypassed natural laws and supernaturally (miraculously) caused His Son to be conceived in Mary's womb--plain and simple. God did it by the agency of a miracle.

I don't understand why you place more value and credence on Mormon Doctrine than you do the Bible. The Bible should be the foundation of your beliefs if you are a follower of Jesus Christ, but it seems like it is the other way around. You seem to base what you believe on Mormon Doctrine, even if it blatantly contradicts Scripture. Are you following Jesus or someone else?

Direct questions should elicit direct responses. No need to insult. How is it that you claim that I attacked you but you are the one who is name-calling?!? But yet you believe that I attacked you??? I asked an honest, straight-forward question and it was evaded. Then I went around the world to get the answer from the horses mouth and it got eluded again. Dude, get it together.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Vague? Are you saying that you honestly do not know or understand what I have asked or what I want to know?

Regret, do you believe that Jesus Christ has always existed?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
And you ask me if I am stupid. I don't believe that either one of us or anyone on this forum fits the definition of stupid. You state that my understanding of Mormon Doctrine is imbecilic. I don't think that my understanding is the issue. The fact that Mormon Doctrine contradicts Scripture is what is the issue and for someone with common sense not to see that wouldn't that be imbecilic? I am not calling you that I am asking a rhetorical question to get you to see a valid point or question.

I understand what you believe is just that your belief. But...how can God have a physical body as you claim when Jesus Christ said that God is a Spirit? If anybody ought to know what God looks like it ought to be His Son Who has been with Him since eternity. But yet you say that God has a physical body. There ain't (I mean is not ) one Scripture verse in the Bible to support what you believe.

The Bible clearly states how Jesus was conceived so why do you say that God uses science and that there are a multitude of ways that Jesus could have been conceived? There isn't a multitude of ways, there is only one way: by the power of the Holy Spirit. God bypassed natural laws and supernaturally (miraculously) caused His Son to be conceived in Mary's womb--plain and simple. God did it by the agency of a miracle.

I don't understand why you place more value and credence on Mormon Doctrine than you do the Bible. The Bible should be the foundation of your beliefs if you are a follower of Jesus Christ, but it seems like it is the other way around. You seem to base what you believe on Mormon Doctrine, even if it blatantly contradicts Scripture. Are you following Jesus or someone else?

Direct questions should elicit direct responses. No need to insult. How is it that you claim that I attacked you but you are the one who is name-calling?!? But yet you believe that I attacked you??? I asked an honest, straight-forward question and it was evaded. Then I went around the world to get the answer from the horses mouth and it got eluded again. Dude, get it together.

Yes, you did attack me personally:

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I did ask and he ran and side-stepped my question on a technicality.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
he chose to side-step my question again.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
he skirts the entire question (unbelievable to me) and takes issue with the fact that I posted my question in the wrong thread.

Incredible.

That has got to be the best example of evasion that I have seen thus far on this forum.

These are personal attacks.

I am not name calling, I am attacking your knowledge of Biblical truth. I stated that your knowledge of Biblical truth is on the level of the imbecile and bordering on the level of stupidity. I stated that your beliefs are extremely erroneous, naive and narrow-minded. I stated that your view and interpretation of statements made by a Mormon prophet, that it implied physical sexual intercourse, was the result of a sick and demented mind. Given your posts and your responses, I do believe that you "fit the definition of stupid."

Mormon Doctrines do not conflict with the Bible, they conflict with the erroneous interpretations of the Bible present in today's Christianity. Your interpretation conflicts entirely with the Bible, from my view. In my opinion, from my interpretation of the Bible, you are an almost entirely unbiblical individual, if, as you assert, the interpretation is what makes a person unbiblical.

God's word does not conflict with the Bible. God speaks to prophets today. He has never told a prophet anything that conflicts with the Bible. You may disagree with our prophets, but that is irrelevant. Their words do not conflict with the Bible, they conflict with erroneous interpretations and translations of the Bible.

The Bible contains the record of God's dealings with man from Adam through the death of Christ, it is the Word of God. God is not silent though, and his Word is not Dead. God's Word is everlasting and since he does not change, his speaking to the prophets is a consistent part of his plan and purpose, through the present. "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets (Amos 3: 7.)"

Originally posted by Regret
...Mormon Doctrines do not conflict with the Bible, they conflict with the erroneous interpretations of the Bible present in today's Christianity. Your interpretation conflicts entirely with the Bible, from my view. In my opinion, from my interpretation of the Bible, you are an almost entirely unbiblical individual, if, as you assert, the interpretation is what makes a person unbiblical....

Regret, you stated that God has a physical body. Do you know what that implies? That God is both human and divine. Jesus Christ is the only Person in the Godhead that has a physical, flesh and bone (not flesh and blood) body. Jesus is the only Person who is both divine and human simultaneously. The Holy Spirit does not have a physical body because He indwells believers. God the Father is a Spirit according to the Bible. How is that my interpretation. Every other rational, clear-thinking believer in Jesus Christ knows that God does not have a physical body. But the Mormons think otherwise. Look, your doctrine concerning God having a physical body is rank foolishness, the height of error, and just plain unscriptural--and yet you still hold this unfounded belief. Regret, this belief that you and other Mormon's hold is not a matter interpretation, but a matter su-ppression. You are suppressing the Truth because your allegiance is to your religion and not to the Person that your beliefs are suppose to revolve around and be the center of. This is very unfortunate. I believe that Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many other religious organizations as well as individuals fall under the category that Jesus described in Matthew 7:21.

Originally posted by Regret
...Mormon Doctrines do not conflict with the Bible, they conflict with the erroneous interpretations of the Bible present in today's Christianity. Your interpretation conflicts entirely with the Bible, from my view. In my opinion, from my interpretation of the Bible, you are an almost entirely unbiblical individual, if, as you assert, the interpretation is what makes a person unbiblical....

[COLOR=darkblue]Regret, you stated that God has a physical body. Do you know what that implies? That God is both human and divine. Jesus Christ is the only Person in the Godhead that has a physical, flesh and bone (not flesh and blood) body. Jesus is the only Person who is both divine and human simultaneously. The Holy Spirit does not have a physical body because He indwells believers. God the Father is a Spirit according to the Bible. How is that my interpretation. Every other rational, clear-thinking believer in Jesus Christ knows that God does not have a physical body. But the Mormons think otherwise. Look, your doctrine concerning God having a physical body is rank foolishness, the height of error, and just plain unscriptural--and yet you still hold this unfounded belief. Regret, this belief that you and other Mormon's hold is not a matter interpretation, but a matter su-ppression. You are suppressing the Truth because your allegiance is to your religion and not to the Person that your beliefs are suppose to revolve around and be the center of. This is very unfortunate. I believe that Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many other religious organizations as well as individuals fall under the category that Jesus described in Matthew 7:21.

Jesus said that many will say to Him in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your Name, cast out demons in Your Name, and done many wonders in Your Name? And then Jesus will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness.!" Folks, it does not matter what your "religion" is or what "church" you go to or what your religious affiliation is. It is absolutely imperative for you to have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. You must know Jesus Christ for yourself. Jesus rejects these people for one reason: Jesus says, I...never...knew...you (if you have not repented of your sins and asked Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior then you are who Jesus is talking to. Is that what you truly want? Do you want to stand before Jesus and say, "But I was basically a good person. I may not have gone to church but I never killed anyone. "I...never...knew...you. Depart from me you who practice lawlessness. That is what you are going to here. All of these people were religious people. They claim to have done all of these "good," "virtuous," "moral" things and yet Jesus says that He never knew them. Let this sink in. Folks you cannot get into Heaven on any good, moral works or effort. God has ordained that salvation from sin and thus entrance into Heaven (you must be born again to enter Heaven. You get born again (or saved) by confessing Jesus as your Lord and believing in your heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead. None of your religious works can save you from God's righteous judgment. Put your faith in a Person (Jesus Christ) and not in some prophet, priest, rabbi, pastor, evangelist, teacher, apostle or and so forth.

You go Regret ! You go JIA !

I love it when religious people argue over whose myth is real and whose myth is false ! 😄