DE Sidious vs. Yoda

It helps when you read everything I write, and you have the source material on hand, Illustrious.

Yes, and it does help that you actually have read the source material, instead of dragging things out of context.

We've seen Aleema Keto blow up a star... by using Sadow's ship just as Sadow himself did. We did see Exar defeat Nadd by using an amulet, and it is correct that at that point in time he was much weaker than what he would eventually become. But I guess you don't register the concept of time passing.

And what evidence particularly (besides the span of a year or so) do you have of Exar growing that much more powerful, to the point where he would not only overcome the spirit of Nadd, to being arguably more powerful (at least in your opinion) than Sadow or even Ragnos?

My argument is supported by the evidence: the source material. It's right in front of me. And to say that Exar's freeze spell wouldn't work on Vodo is nonsense, given that Vodo wasn't in the building when Kun cast it. And I'm a believer that Sidious threw the fight, remember?

Again, stop trying to project your opinion as factual evidence. You have the source material, so use it. Where in the source material does it state Sidious threw the fight? In fact, GL has never confirmed it, the official site has never indicated it, and no one has ever even been able to prove it besides broken cinematography and useless hypotheticals.

So you are assuming that if Vodo was in the room, he would be frozen? Interesting you state that, since the others WERE STILL FROZEN while Vodo was fighting. Care to explain that one with your "source material"? Funny how assumptions that supports your argument are valid, isn't it?

You seem to forget that Sadow performed those feats at two different times. The reason Sadow could create illusions of that magnitude is due to his having designed a starship specifically for that purpose, much like his "star-ripping" ship was designed for its purpose. You also seem to forget that Aleema Keto could generate these illusions just as well in her own specially designed chamber on her ship.

So because Aleema did it, everyone can do it right? Again, unfounded. You are attempting to make an assumption because one had similar results. By this assumption, I can say that Nomi did better than Exar because she had a stronger end result against Ulic, ergo Nomi > Exar.

But no, the second I attack your beloved character fixation, your assumptions based on "source material" are suddenly strikingly valid. You have no evidence to suggest just how much of it is ship, and how much is the person, nor do you have any understanding that Aleema Keto did not know any of the required "sith magic."

Pardon me, Illustrious, but have I not explained sufficiently that anyone that is Force sensitive can use Sadow's ship to rip the core from a star? Aleema Keto is a weakling and she performed just as well as Sadow in this feat. The only flaw was that she was not told what the consequences of her actions would be.

You assumed that one other individual doing the feat indicates that it's commonplace. So I assume practically anyone in the galaxy can toss Sidious down a reactor core because a one-handed gimp did it. Again, assumptions based off end-results are equally ridiculous.

And yes, Aleema Keto is a "weakling" with knowledge of Sith Magic. Good job proving that man.

It does mean that any Force sensitive can use it. Neither Aleema nor Naga showed strain of any sort while performing their feats. Your hypothesis is the one that's unfounded, Illustrious, given there's zero evidence, not even a shred of indication, to support it. (Yes, we see two individuals harness it. Does that mean that Exar, for example, couldn't? Of course not. Nor does it mean that anyone weaker could not harness it. There is no indication of that whatsoever.)

Again, you're attempting to argue a negative, not prove a positive. Exar never attempted it, all other supposition is hypothetical. It would be like me saying Sadow would have conquered the Republic if it wasn't due to being betrayed. Simply something to be toyed with.

They "officially call them" godlike because the Sith are wont to build legends around themselves. Even the scrolls Kun studied used overblown language regarding their "legends."

Their power, Illustrious, is not what you think it is.

Sure, you can believe that. You can also believe that Yoda is blue, and Coruscant is populated by eskimos.

I prefer not living in denial and accepting what the author of the "source material" (your emphasis, not mine) tells me.

Here's a task for you. Prove that Naga was even in that particular ship that Aleema Keto used. You can't.

I have read the source material myself and must concur with IKC. Aleema herself remarked at how powerful Sadow's weapons were. Sadow is not as powerful as he is made out to be.

Originally posted by IKC
He wasn't holding it back at all. It took at least a minute or two for the entire star to go nova when Aleema used it. That's more than enough time to get away. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Sadow held the star back. You're arguing with someone who has the sources in front of him, while it's plain from your previous arguments that you've not read at least DLOTS or TSW, or at least don't remember them clearly.

How can you tell that is took a minute or two for the star to explode, or that it took that long for the star that Naga destroyed to do the same thing. I'm referring to in the beginning of the first Dark Lords of the Sith comic. Naga orders his ship to fly between the stars. Between them, there are TWO stars that Naga is IN BETWEEN!

True, I have only read one of the comics, but I do have the Essential Guides which are higher level canon than regular books or comics as far as I can tell(the only comic store with the comics burned down a few months ago.).

Remember, Naga was in the middle of two stars. He can't get out that fast. And, are you going to tell me that Aleema just sat there infront of a star going supernova for several minutes? It had to be faster than that, or she knew what was happening and thought she could hold it back, but failed.

Originally posted by IKC
No she isn't. I reiterate: "God almighty, read the comics." Her intention, and her action, was to rip the core from the star and fling it at the Jedi and other ships chasing her. Period. She was not told that doing so would cause the star to go nova. Period. She obviously did not suspect that it would because she flew into the middle of a cluster of ten stars when she did it. Read the comics.

Why couldn't she just get out? If it took two minutes, like you say, then she should have been able to see what was happening, and if, like you say, the core was no longer there thus negating the gravity well, hyperspace away?

Originally posted by IKC
No he did not. He ran away. You're going to have to prove that he did such, because in my humble opinion you're pulling that out of thin air (Substitute a ruder phrase if you like).

Naga was in between two stars. The Republic ships were faster than the Sith ships at that time, yet they still couldn't get out. You're going to need to prove that Naga fled, because in my humble opinion, you're pulling that out of thin air.

Now, how should Sadow know the star was going to blow? I mean, trial and error doesn't exactly work to well in this instance.

Originally posted by IKC
Right. She shouldn't need to be told? Why not? She barely understood how the weapon even worked, and had to get Exar Kun to explain how to use it. She only studied what Nadd taught her, which was very little in comparison to what Ulic learned, much less what Kun himself learned.

Well Nadd hasn't told me anything, yet I, a 14 year old kid failing science know enough that you don't stand by an exploding star. She must have thought she could hold it back, yet failed.

Even if she didn't know how to use the weapon, she should still have been able figure out in that two minutes that the star was going to blow and hyperspace out of there.

Originally posted by IKC
Oh, and that was a Jedi holocron Exar studied, made by Vodo Siosk Baas. It dealt partly with Sadow's flight from known space and his use of his ship on a smaller cluster of stars. Read the comics.

Why would it being Jedi or a Sith holocron have anything to do with it? More often then not the people who invent a technology know more about it than the people it was used on.

Originally posted by IKC
Lol.. Why then do you think that they didn't wage war on the Republic on a grand scale? Haven't you seen me state that the Sith War was more-so a few spectacular acts of terrorism? They, combined with the Mandalorians, raided shipyards and conducted a few more piracies before surprising Coruscant after leading away the republic fleet to Kemplex Nine. They would have won had Aleema not betrayed Ulic. (Ulic's plan was to order the admirals of every Republic fleet to hyperjump to the same coordinate.)

They made major attacks. They made an attack on a Jedi convention on Deneba. They waged war on Raxus Prime. They made dozens of attacks on shipyards and outpost. They even attacked the most heavily defended world in the galaxy, Coruscant.

Also note things like Krath Holy Battle Armor as seen in KOTOR 2. Are you saying there is a whole line of battle armor for just three people?

And, notice in when Satal and Aleema are eating dinner after they kill their parents. There are two other Krath with them.

Fourth, the Great Sith War in commonly stated as one of the most destructive wars in history and that it resulted in millions of deaths. It was far more than mere terrorist attacks.

Originally posted by IKC
Exar slapped away Aleema when he was nowhere near the height of his power. Read the comics. At that point, he was only equal to Qel-Droma. Nomi defeated Aleema easily, read the comics. It was in no way a hard fight. They had a harder time trying to subdue Qel-Droma than they did with Aleema's feeble powers.

Why do you keep acting like losing to Exar makes you weak? We are talking about a guy who killed an Ancient Sith Lord during a temper tantrum. Yes, that was after Kun had killed Nadd and many of the Massassi.

Nomi was one of eight Jedi who went to defeat the Krath on Cinnagar. If there were only two of them, why would they send eight Jedi?

I don't understand why you are saying it was harder to subdue Ulic then Aleema as if it makes her seem weak. Ulic was equal to Exar. Yoda would lose to him. Being weaker than Ulic does not necessarily make someone weak.

Originally posted by IKC
No, why don't you re-read the comic. In The Sith War, after Aleema's final betrayal, Ulic ponders to himself on how she tricked him into killing her cousin, Satal, in order to increase her own power.

Perhaps I missed that part, but none of the reference books made any indication of that.

Originally posted by IKC
"zOMG SHE CAN FOOL ARMIES!" And? Armies of non-force sensitives, sure. That doesn't change the fact that, up against force users, she's a small fry, and has never won a battle.

Deneba. Strikes against doznes of shipyards and outpost. Yes, I dare say she has won battles. Notice that the biggest threat on Deneba was Arca, someone who did the same thing that Aleema did.

Originally posted by IKC
Hello? Have you read the comics? The only reason Ulic was captured is because she ordered all the forces to retreat! It's called betrayal, Glentract. She told them Qel-Droma was dead and the battle was lost. Mandalore even figured it out afterwards. Big accomplishment, she can run away with her army after hanging Qel-Droma out to dry.

My statement is still true. She escaped where Ulic did not. Was retreat the only reason for that, I didn't and don't think so.

Originally posted by IKC
This is growing insufferable. The Krath forces they refer to was the army they controlled! [B]Read the comics! Satal and Aleema already had the military in their pocket by the time they offed the leaders of the Teta system. "That quote" is obviously interpreted incorrectly by you, Glentract, because you want what you believe to be true. [/B]

That is the direct quote, it says Krath Forces. Why wouldn't they say something like "Krath Generals leading their Army". They didn't call the Clones the Jedi Army.

You also were definately wrong on there being only two Krath. There are two of them dining with Satal and Aleema in the first DLOTS comic.

Originally posted by IKC
Nonsensical, I've already answered this. There is no evidence that Naga Sadow held back the supernova of any star, whatsoever. There is evidence that he ran like hell after using his weapon, because he knew what the consequences would be! Your assumption, I predict, is not held up in the comics.

Oh, and I answered the "half a minute" bit already. It took about a full minute or perhaps two for Aleema's star to go nova.

He was in between two stars and the faster Republic ships were unable to get out. How would his have? He HAS to have held it back or else his ship would have been destroyed.

Originally posted by IKC
By the way, didn't you just say that the majority of a star's mass is in its core? Well then, by tossing it away from you, would that not reduce the gravity well holding your ship in realspace?

He ran. Period.

It would reduce it, but you are forgetting that even a planet can hold a ship out of hyperspace. The mass of a planet it thousands of times less than the amount of mass outside of the core.

You also are forgetting that the Republic Ships, which were faster, were unable to get out in time. Sadow HAD to hold it back to get out.

Originally posted by IKC
Think about this, Glentract. How would a Sith destroy a star? Telekinesis is too weak. There's, according to you, nothing that can multiply a force user's power or else "Naga would have carried the technology with him" (nevermind the fact that he created several force-boosting amulets. By God, don't look at the man behind the curtain! Glentract has to believe that Naga Sadow is a demigod!)

A weakling can use it, Glentract. That means that Naga's power is not what you think it is.

Now you are just being stupid. I NEVER said that there is nothing that could multiply a force user's power. Don't you ever say that I said things that I didn't again. I said that Naga doesn't carry the ship with him, not that there is no force boosting technology.

Telekinesis is not to weak. It has been used to do more energy intensive things before(controlling black holes has been done on mutiple occasions by people in an X-wing. Does Kyp Durron's X-wing have Sadow's technology in the nose cone perhaps? 🙄 ).

You have failed, IKC, to show how the hell the ship would destroy a star.

The reason you have failed to show how the ship did that is because it is impossible. Completely impossible.

The Imperial Star Destroyer was stated as the most powerful ship ever(this was as of the moment it was first built.)

The mass of a star is 198,892,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms. Yes, that is a lot.

The core comprises ~60% of the suns mass. That is 119,335,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms. Still, that is a lot.

To move that at a rate of 1 meter per-second would require 119,335,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 watts of energy.

The energy out put of an entire star is LESS than that(remember that the energy output of one star is that maximum for any ship prior to the Imperial Star Destroyer).

Incase you are wondering what the energy output of a star(the sun) is, here you go, 3,860,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

119,335,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 / 3,860,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = 30.9158549

So, even if the star was moved at a measily one meter persecond, it would require the power of thirty Imperial Star Destroyers to move it. Since NO ship prior to the Imperial Star Destroyer was able to harness the power of even a single star, it is impossible for any ship prior to the launch of the Executor to produce that energy on it's own.

Remeber that the following equations use a speed of only one meter per second to as the rate that the star was moving at. The true number is thousands of times higher than that, as it was moving faster than the Republic ships could get away at.

In short, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY for the ship to have been the driving factor in moving that star. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE! NO POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATION AT ALL!

i think there are some things i must point out. from that equation a star destroyer is 1 kilo. i doubt that. Also there are many different size stars. the ones sadow used may be many times larger or smaller then the sun. Also how do you know the republic ships are faster? i may have misunderstood though.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Now you are just being stupid. I [b]NEVER said that there is nothing that could multiply a force user's power. Don't you ever say that I said things that I didn't again. I said that Naga doesn't carry the ship with him, not that there is no force boosting technology.

Telekinesis is not to weak. It has been used to do more energy intensive things before(controlling black holes has been done on mutiple occasions by people in an X-wing. Does Kyp Durron's X-wing have Sadow's technology in the nose cone perhaps? 🙄 ).

You have failed, IKC, to show how the hell the ship would destroy a star.

The reason you have failed to show how the ship did that is because it is impossible. Completely impossible.

The Imperial Star Destroyer was stated as the most powerful ship ever(this was as of the moment it was first built.)

The mass of a star is 198,892,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms. Yes, that is a lot.

The core comprises ~60% of the suns mass. That is 119,335,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms. Still, that is a lot.

To move that at a rate of 1 meter per-second would require 119,335,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 watts of energy.

The energy out put of an entire star is LESS than that(remember that the energy output of one star is that maximum for any ship prior to the Imperial Star Destroyer).

Incase you are wondering what the energy output of a star(the sun) is, here you go, 3,860,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

119,335,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 / 3,860,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = 30.9158549

So, even if the star was moved at a measily one meter persecond, it would require the power of thirty Imperial Star Destroyers to move it. Since NO ship prior to the Imperial Star Destroyer was able to harness the power of even a single star, it is impossible for any ship prior to the launch of the Executor to produce that energy on it's own.

Remeber that the following equations use a speed of only one meter per second to as the rate that the star was moving at. The true number is thousands of times higher than that, as it was moving faster than the Republic ships could get away at.

In short, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY for the ship to have been the driving factor in moving that star. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE! NO POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATION AT ALL! [/B]

How can you try to bring physics into Star Wars?

because it is SCIENCE fiction. lol. Still SW has physics.

I have seen mutiple sites state that Republic Ships were faster during that time period.

In science, when the size of a star in unknown, 1 stellar mass(the size of the sun) is used.

Plus the Sun is a relatively small star. I can't think of any stars that are thirty times smaller than the Sun, making the equation effective even in a worst-case senario for my argument.

Where did you get one kilo for a star destroyer?

Originally posted by Veneficus
How can you try to bring physics into Star Wars?

Like Avis said, science still applies to SW. That and logic(which is more or less science).

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Like Avis said, science still applies to SW. That and logic(which is more or less science).

Yes but we are talking about a Comic book here. Since when have comics used physics?

Originally posted by Veneficus
Yes but we are talking about a Comic book here. Since when have comics used physics?

If we disband physics, then we would have to disband logic, because physics are logical. You're starting to sound like a noobist. lol.

Seriously though. Physics still apply in SW.

Illustrious:

Yes, and it does help that you actually have read the source material, instead of dragging things out of context.

How many times now have I stated that the source material is right in front of me?

And what evidence particularly (besides the span of a year or so) do you have of Exar growing that much more powerful, to the point where he would not only overcome the spirit of Nadd, to being arguably more powerful (at least in your opinion) than Sadow or even Ragnos?

Because after he destroyed Nadd's spirit, Exar came across a trove of knowledge and alchemical devices that Naga Sadow left behind. As well, he became equal to Qel-Droma in lightsaber combat before being named Dark Lord of the Sith. Some months later, during the Sith War, he reaches his pinnacle and is able to perform feats unmatched by Qel-Droma, much less anyone else. (Freezing the Senate, slapping around the Grandmaster like he was initiate, etc. Vodo was stronger than Ulic Qel-Droma.)

So you are assuming that if Vodo was in the room, he would be frozen? Interesting you state that, since the others WERE STILL FROZEN while Vodo was fighting. Care to explain that one with your "source material"? Funny how assumptions that supports your argument are valid, isn't it?

Assumptions? Do I have to spell it out for you? If Vodo were present in the Senate building while Kun cast his spell, it would not surprise me if he would have been frozen along with the rest of them. Because he came along after the spell was cast, he was not affected by the spell, because Kun had cast it several minutes before.

So because Aleema did it, everyone can do it right? Again, unfounded. You are attempting to make an assumption because one had similar results. By this assumption, I can say that Nomi did better than Exar because she had a stronger end result against Ulic, ergo Nomi > Exar.

This is not an assumption. There is nothing special about Aleema that would enable her to perform this feat. She sure as hell isn't particularly powerful, as I've made the case for time and time again.

Your counterargument is nonsensical and shows a lack of knowledge of the story. Nomi had a cadre of Jedi Knights to support her in subduing Ulic. Ulic, by the way, was not fighting with his lightsaber and didn't want to hurt the Jedi. Read the comics, Illustrious. However, Nomi, by herself, dispelled Aleema's illusions several times. She was unassisted in dispatching the threats from Aleema.

But no, the second I attack your beloved character fixation, your assumptions based on "source material" are suddenly strikingly valid. You have no evidence to suggest just how much of it is ship, and how much is the person, nor do you have any understanding that Aleema Keto did not know any of the required "sith magic."

My beloved character fixation? You're the one trying to prop up force users you like to call "godlike." I have plenty of evidence to support the fact that most of the power came from the ship, because a weakling was able to perform the very same feat with no difficulty!

You assumed that one other individual doing the feat indicates that it's commonplace. So I assume practically anyone in the galaxy can toss Sidious down a reactor core because a one-handed gimp did it. Again, assumptions based off end-results are equally ridiculous.

The only reason it isn't commonplace, Illustrious, is that Naga Sadow's ship was a unique weapon. Maybe you don't understand that. The first person to discover the ship after Sadow hid it on Yavin 4 was Exar Kun. How the hell would anyone else have used it if they didn't know it existed or where it was?

Your assumptions are ridiculous, Illustrious. You think this ship was just sitting out in space waiting for someone to come use it? It was hidden and guarded by the monstrosity Sadow created. Exar Kun had the power and opportunity to find and use it. Period.

And yes. Someone with the strength to lift Sidious and the fortitude to withstand his lightning for a time can toss him into an exposed reactor core provided Sidious is distracted with sadistically electrocuting the last Jedi. It doesn't have to be Darth Vader.

And yes, Aleema Keto is a "weakling" with knowledge of Sith Magic. Good job proving that man.

Yes she is. She only knew what Freedon Nadd taught her, which was very little in comparison to other Force users of the time. Of course, non-force users were helpless to its power, but that should be a given anyway. If they were weapons, the Empress Teta rulers would be a stick. Aleema and Satal would be swords. Exar Kun and the like would be thermonuclear warheads.

Again, you're attempting to argue a negative, not prove a positive. Exar never attempted it, all other supposition is hypothetical. It would be like me saying Sadow would have conquered the Republic if it wasn't due to being betrayed. Simply something to be toyed with.

Nonsense. Sadow had no chance of conquering the Republic. He was very unwise by deciding to attack. To say that because Exar Kun never attempted to use Sadow's weapon, and therefore probably can not, is like saying that Exar Kun never attempted to destroy the first Death Star in the same manner as Luke Skywalker, and therefore probably can not. Ridiculous assertion.

Sure, you can believe that. You can also believe that Yoda is blue, and Coruscant is populated by eskimos.

From Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith - Sith scrolls read by Exar Kun: "Once the Dark Jedi had dominated the Sith, they threatened to subvert the very existence of the Republic. Their power was greatly feared, and the Sith were marked for extermination. Persecuted for their knowledge, knowledge that was feared by lesser men...they wandered from system to system, leaving a trail of myths and legends...

Sounds like a puff piece to me. Overblown language and delusions of grandeur. Believe yet, Illustrious?

Here's a task for you. Prove that Naga was even in that particular ship that Aleema Keto used. You can't.

Yes I can. Apparently you haven't read TOTJ. Quoting!

DLOTS - Freedon Nadd: He (Sadow) and his many followers tried to hide on the Fourth moon of Yavin...

DLOTS - Exar Kun, upon discovery of Sadow's trove of knowledge, alchemical devices, and ship: Of course! The spacecraft that brought the original Sith renegades to the Jungle moon of Yavin!

TSW - Exar Kun, to Aleema Keto: A thousand years ago, one of my predecessors, the Dark Lord Naga Sadow, used this ship to flee Republic fighters. Here is the power to wrench fire from the stars... let me show you how to use it, Aleema.

Proof enough, Illustrious?

TSW - Aleema Keto, same scene: Yes! I can sense the Sith power vibrating through the walls.

TSW - Aleema Keto, waiting in Sadow's ship for the Jedi and Republic forces: Naga Sadow's weaponry is so powerful... I can't wait to use it. (Emphasis mine)

TSW - Narrator, as Aleema flings the star's core at the Jedi and Republic forces: Aleema has used the Sith power in Naga Sadow's ancient ship to rip the core from the center of one of the ten stars in the Cron cluster. She tosses the flaming, radioactive core directly into the midst of her Jedi pursuers... exactly as Exar Kun had planned!

Proof enough, yet? It's the ship! The ship! What's that? I have no proof? Read the comics!

You're like every other person I know who has taken debate. You think you know the facts and that your debating skills will cover you, but you don't, and it doesn't. I have no antipathy towards you, but it's infuriating having to explain this over and over when you could just read it yourself.

I have to agree with that particular reasoning. SW literature often relies on scientific explanations and logic itself runs along similar principles. If anything, the two are intertwined.

you are talking about Glentract right?

Yes, I was.

Glentract:

True, I have only read one of the comics, but I do have the Essential Guides which are higher level canon than regular books or comics as far as I can tell(the only comic store with the comics burned down a few months ago.)

... Right. So if the Essential Guides contradicted a movie, are the Essential Guides canon? Hell no. No secondary source can be considered higher canon than the primary source. To state otherwise is ridiculous.

How can you tell that is took a minute or two for the star to explode, or that it took that long for the star that Naga destroyed to do the same thing. I'm referring to in the beginning of the first Dark Lords of the Sith comic. Naga orders his ship to fly between the stars. Between them, there are TWO stars that Naga is IN BETWEEN!

Being between two stars is very different from being in the middle of ten. Naga Sadow was fleeing his pursuers at the time and decidedly was notstationary.

Oh, Glentract, how about you turn the page where the same holocron states explicitly that "According to their own holocron, the adept Naga Sadow escaped the cosmic holocaust he created... and vanished with his followers."

Huh. Sure as hell sounds to me like he ran away from the supernova, exactly as I've maintained.

Remember, Naga was in the middle of two stars. He can't get out that fast. And, are you going to tell me that Aleema just sat there infront of a star going supernova for several minutes? It had to be faster than that, or she knew what was happening and thought she could hold it back, but failed.

You're arguing about this after admitting you've only read one comic from the beginning of the series, and you're very wrong throughout.

Naga was fleeing when he had his ship steered between the two stars, using his weaponry to throw the cores at his Republic pursuers. Aleema had parked the ship and waited in the middle of the Cron Cluster for her Jedi and Republic pursuers. I wrote, by the way, that the reaction took at least a minute. There is nothing in the comic that states that Aleema tried to hold anything back. She had just noticed that the Star was starting to go nova after she shut down the weapon's power source (another bit of evidence that the power is in the ship,), and she ordered the ship to escape full-throttle as she realized what was happening. It was too late, because they had inertia to overcome and they didn't know the consequences.

Sadow had neither of those problems.

Why couldn't she just get out? If it took two minutes, like you say, then she should have been able to see what was happening, and if, like you say, the core was no longer there thus negating the gravity well, hyperspace away?

A) Because she and Crado spent their precious time enjoying their victory.

B) Because she didn't realize what was happening until it was too late.

C) Because there were nine other suns surrounding the ship. Read the comics.

Naga was in between two stars. The Republic ships were faster than the Sith ships at that time, yet they still couldn't get out. You're going to need to prove that Naga fled, because in my humble opinion, you're pulling that out of thin air.

Already answered this, read above.

Now, how should Sadow know the star was going to blow? I mean, trial and error doesn't exactly work to well in this instance.

Mostly because he invented the damn weapon, Glentract. Atomic scientists, I believe, were able to predict with reasonable accuracy what the Atomic Bomb was capable of before testing it. That, and the man was a genius at science (not at other things). Why would he not know?

Well Nadd hasn't told me anything, yet I, a 14 year old kid failing science know enough that you don't stand by an exploding star. She must have thought she could hold it back, yet failed.

Wrong yet again. I've answered this. It wasn't exploding until it was too late for her to escape. Why do you continue to argue things you haven't read about? "She must have" is simple bull, Glentract. She didn't know or believe anything of the sort.

Even if she didn't know how to use the weapon, she should still have been able figure out in that two minutes that the star was going to blow and hyperspace out of there.

Exactly what difference does this make? How was she supposed to learn this? Was she supposed to look at the script, or something?

"zOMG, ANAKIN SHOULD HAVE KNOWN HE'D GET DISMEMBERED, HE SHOULD HAVE JUMPED SOMEWHERE ELSE!"

Why would it being Jedi or a Sith holocron have anything to do with it? More often then not the people who invent a technology know more about it than the people it was used on.

I corrected you to emphasize the point that you know zilch about what you're arguing about.

They made major attacks. They made an attack on a Jedi convention on Deneba. (Wrong, that was the Krath before Exar and Ulic turned) They waged war on Raxus Prime (This is mentioned nowhere in either comic series). They made dozens of attacks on shipyards and outpost (Yes, like any group of pirates and terrorists, they took the resources they wanted and got out quickly, after butchering the defenders and civilians). They even attacked the most heavily defended world in the galaxy, Coruscant (After having lured away its defenders with a feint by leaving a hologram of Qel-Droma stating that their next target was Kemplex Nine.

There. I corrected you.

Also note things like Krath Holy Battle Armor as seen in KOTOR 2. Are you saying there is a whole line of battle armor for just three people?

Excuse me... are you taking KOTOR as canon? KOTOR items?

Oh, and need I remind you that the Krath had an army of non-force users in their pocket?

And it was two people, by the way. Ulic was no Krath, he was a Sith Lord.

And, notice in when Satal and Aleema are eating dinner after they kill their parents. There are two other Krath with them.

Neither of which used Sith magic. Satal and Aleema were the only force sensitives among them.

Fourth, the Great Sith War in commonly stated as one of the most destructive wars in history and that it resulted in millions of deaths. It was far more than mere terrorist attack

A "mere terrorist attack" could be a nuclear bomb in New York City, Glentract.

I'll run down a small list for you:

Raids on shipyards? Terrorism.

Luring the enemy away and attempting a coup at Coruscant? This may be the only real battle of the Sith War, and even then it caused more wanton destruction and piracy than a true battle would.

Destruction of the Cron Cluster, and therefore Ossus and other surrounding planets? Terrorism.

Perhaps I missed that part, but none of the reference books made any indication of that.

Glentract, reference books do not trump primary sources. They cannot. Period.

Deneba. Strikes against doznes of shipyards and outpost. Yes, I dare say she has won battles. Notice that the biggest threat on Deneba was Arca, someone who did the same thing that Aleema did.

She wasn't present at Deneba, Deneba was a droid ambush. The strikes against shipyards and outposts were after Qel-Droma had joined her. She's never won a battle by herself, not against Force users.

My statement is still true. She escaped where Ulic did not. Was retreat the only reason for that, I didn't and don't think so.

Lol. And coincidentally you did not read the comics. Don't argue about this until you do, because retreat was the only reason. Mandalore himself stated it.

That is the direct quote, it says Krath Forces. Why wouldn't they say something like "Krath Generals leading their Army". They didn't call the Clones the Jedi Army.

Did the Jedi own the clones or control their movements as a whole? Hell no. That's why they're called the republic's army. The Krath army had not one force sensitive.

You also were definately wrong on there being only two Krath. There are two of them dining with Satal and Aleema in the first DLOTS comic.

Oh really? Can you name them, perchance, or show me where they've used the Force?

No. Because they aren't named, and don't use the Force. Nadd only trained Satal and Aleema.

He was in between two stars and the faster Republic ships were unable to get out. How would his have? He HAS to have held it back or else his ship would have been destroyed.

I've already answered this. Are you not aware that he threw the stars at his pursuers? How the hell would the Republic fighters have escaped the supernova when they were vaporized by Sadow's initial action?

It would reduce it, but you are forgetting that even a planet can hold a ship out of hyperspace. The mass of a planet it thousands of times less than the amount of mass outside of the core.

Sadow was already at full throttle, or damn near so because he was fleeing the Republic, at sublight speeds. He had plenty of time and speed to get away and jump to hyperspace. The gravity well was not, obviously, large enough to hold him in realspace.

You also are forgetting that the Republic Ships, which were faster, were unable to get out in time. Sadow HAD to hold it back to get out.

They were dead already. Already answered this.

And your conclusions using the Star Destroyer are weakened by the fact that it is stated explicitly, several times in the comics, that Sadow's ship and weaponry wrenched the cores from stars.

In conclusion: Read the comics.

How many times now have I stated that the source material is right in front of me?

Oh good, do you want a cookie for that?

Because after he destroyed Nadd's spirit, Exar came across a trove of knowledge and alchemical devices that Naga Sadow left behind. As well, he became equal to Qel-Droma in lightsaber combat before being named Dark Lord of the Sith. Some months later, during the Sith War, he reaches his pinnacle and is able to perform feats unmatched by Qel-Droma, much less anyone else. (Freezing the Senate, slapping around the Grandmaster like he was initiate, etc. Vodo was stronger than Ulic Qel-Droma.)

Can you prove definitely that Vodo was stronger than Ulic? Can you indicate definitely that he gained so much more power that he instantly vaulted over guys like Nadd's embodiment, Sadow or even Ragnos?

Assumptions? Do I have to spell it out for you? If Vodo were present in the Senate building while Kun cast his spell, it would not surprise me if he would have been frozen along with the rest of them. Because he came along after the spell was cast, he was not affected by the spell, because Kun had cast it several minutes before.

Things get a lot easier to refute when you don't read, doesn't it?

First off, it is an assumption if you claim Vodo would have been frozen if he was there. Secondly, he had to maintain the spell, and Vodo walked in, while the rest of the senate was still frozen, he was able to duel Vodo. How do you explain this?

This is not an assumption. There is nothing special about Aleema that would enable her to perform this feat. She sure as hell isn't particularly powerful, as I've made the case for time and time again.

Again, someone that knows "Sith Magic" hardly qualifies as "nothing special." You need to brush up on lore.

Your counterargument is nonsensical and shows a lack of knowledge of the story. Nomi had a cadre of Jedi Knights to support her in subduing Ulic. Ulic, by the way, was not fighting with his lightsaber and didn't want to hurt the Jedi. Read the comics, Illustrious. However, Nomi, by herself, dispelled Aleema's illusions several times. She was unassisted in dispatching the threats from Aleema.

No, I was pointing out and laughing at your nonsensical logic in attempting to juxtapose the OUTCOME rather than the circumstance.

READ THE POST, I'm tempted to use some rather unkind terminology right now.

You're attempting to compare things based solely on outcome with no supporting evidence. Either find some from your beloved "source material" that is right in front of you, or STFU.

My beloved character fixation? You're the one trying to prop up force users you like to call "godlike." I have plenty of evidence to support the fact that most of the power came from the ship, because a weakling was able to perform the very same feat with no difficulty!

Correctly. The author called them "godlike" not me.

Like I said, what next? Are you going to argue that Yoda was blue?

Again, Aleema is hardly a weakling in the conventional sense any more than Malak or Revan are weaklings for being able to operate the Star Forge. Your logic doesn't stack up. You haven't been able to indicate that Aleema is a weakling, despite all your slandering of that word.

The only reason it isn't commonplace, Illustrious, is that Naga Sadow's ship was a unique weapon. Maybe you don't understand that. The first person to discover the ship after Sadow hid it on Yavin 4 was Exar Kun. How the hell would anyone else have used it if they didn't know it existed or where it was?

Your assumptions are ridiculous, Illustrious. You think this ship was just sitting out in space waiting for someone to come use it? It was hidden and guarded by the monstrosity Sadow created. Exar Kun had the power and opportunity to find and use it. Period.

And yes. Someone with the strength to lift Sidious and the fortitude to withstand his lightning for a time can toss him into an exposed reactor core provided Sidious is distracted with sadistically electrocuting the last Jedi. It doesn't have to be Darth Vader.

Okay, and your point being? How does this particularly undermine Sadow's work exactly?

You're the one assuming Sadow is weak because he has powerful toys. How does that stack up?

Sadow has powerful weapons, THEREFORE he's a weakling? Yay for shitty logic man.

The only assumptions I made are satires of the garbage you're spewing. Please continue, I do like being sardonic.

Yes she is. She only knew what Freedon Nadd taught her, which was very little in comparison to other Force users of the time. Of course, non-force users were helpless to its power, but that should be a given anyway. If they were weapons, the Empress Teta rulers would be a stick. Aleema and Satal would be swords. Exar Kun and the like would be thermonuclear warheads.

You claim Exar is stronger than Sadow, Nadd, and a host of other Ancient Sith, so why exactly would being weaker than Exar be belittling in your opinion? Not to mention you can hardly substantiate your comparisons.

Nonsense. Sadow had no chance of conquering the Republic. He was very unwise by deciding to attack. To say that because Exar Kun never attempted to use Sadow's weapon, and therefore probably can not, is like saying that Exar Kun never attempted to destroy the first Death Star in the same manner as Luke Skywalker, and therefore probably can not. Ridiculous assertion.

So you're arguing that Kun, who was never known for being a great pilot, can make that one in a million shot that Luke (who was known as a good pilot) barely could?

Yes, you're right. It's ridiculous to assume Kun can't do anything.

Read Golden Age, Sadow as closer to his goal than you give him credit for.

Sounds like a puff piece to me. Overblown language and delusions of grandeur. Believe yet, Illustrious?

Hardly. You use an allusion from a source that details a time BEFORE the golden Age instead of me, who uses the actual Golden Age comics themself. Another bit of faulty logic. Good job.

Proof enough, Illustrious?

Yes, clearly, once again, Kun's word is law. If Kun says he is god, he clearly is.

How exactly is Kun saying this more viable evidence than the NARRATOR saying Sadow as godlike again? Oh wait, only to a Kun fanboy.

Proof enough, yet? It's the ship! The ship! What's that? I have no proof? Read the comics!

You're like every other person I know who has taken debate. You think you know the facts and that your debating skills will cover you, but you don't, and it doesn't. I have no antipathy towards you, but it's infuriating having to explain this over and over when you could just read it yourself.

It's Naga Sadow's ship, but is it the very ship Naga Sadow used for the demonstrated Star destruction? You can't prove that. Why? Because I'm asking you to prove something that is far too narrow, and nothing short of say... a serial number can indicate that. You are using the same ridiculous logic.

You are arguing the following bits of logic:

1.) Sadow's ship did the work, ergo he's weak even though the narrator describes numerous times that Sadow and the rest of the Ancient Sith are godlike and powerful.

2.) Exar Kun, who loots the remnant artifacts of the Ancient Sith is somehow more immersed and more powerful using their ancient teachings than those individuals who were immersed and made the artifacts in the first place.

3.) You know more about Sadow with your excertations of Naga Sadow when I am holding the GOLDEN AGE OF THE SITH in front of me. Weren't you the one arguing with Nai Fohl that the TOTJ about Exar Kun is more accurate than the JA account of Exar's spirit? Funny how the logic works both ways and it's biting you in the ass. You are effectively telling me that Exar's comics have more on Sadow than Sadow's comics.

Like I said, either get Golden Age and read it, or STFU. I don't feel like debating with people who have no clue.

Listen. If you want to argue with what the narrator repeatedly states in the most relevant series of comics, then you can continue being delusional and in denial.

I personally, have no intention of going in circles with an individual who can not accept than an individual is possibly stronger than Exar Kun.

Stop jumping on your only wild card.

I am using Naga's comics, like you are using Kun's. Now tell me, if I want to know about Naga Sadow, would I go to his own comics or would I go to comics about Exar Kun?

Please, stop being difficult and quit while you're only marginally behind.

Originally posted by IKC
Glentract:

IKC:

Originally posted by IKC
... Right. So if the Essential Guides contradicted a movie, are the Essential Guides canon? Hell no. No secondary source can be considered higher canon than the primary source. To state otherwise is ridiculous.

The comics are a lower level canon than the movies though. It goes movies, reference books, novels and comics. Primary and secondary sources have nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by IKC
Being between two stars is very different from being in the middle of ten. Naga Sadow was fleeing his pursuers at the time and decidedly was notstationary.

Oh, Glentract, how about you turn the page where the same holocron states explicitly that "According to their own holocron, the adept Naga Sadow escaped the cosmic holocaust he created... and vanished with his followers."

Huh. Sure as hell sounds to me like he ran away from the supernova, exactly as I've maintained.

It doesn't matter if there were two or a billion stars. A supernova explosion expands faster than his ships maximum speed.

He escaped, but had to fly through the supernova to do that.

Originally posted by IKC
You're arguing about this after admitting you've only read one comic from the beginning of the series, and you're very wrong throughout.

Naga was fleeing when he had his ship steered between the two stars, using his weaponry to throw the cores at his Republic pursuers. Aleema had parked the ship and waited in the middle of the Cron Cluster for her Jedi and Republic pursuers. I wrote, by the way, that the reaction took at least a minute. There is nothing in the comic that states that Aleema tried to hold anything back. She had just noticed that the Star was starting to go nova after she shut down the weapon's power source (another bit of evidence that the power is in the ship,), and she ordered the ship to escape full-throttle as she realized what was happening. It was too late, because they had inertia to overcome and they didn't know the consequences.

Sadow had neither of those problems.

Is that your only argument? I have higher level sources then you. Get over it.

It doesn't matter if there were two or a billion stars. A supernova explosion expands faster than his ships maximum speed.

He escaped, but had to fly through the supernova to do that.

Originally posted by IKC
A) Because she and Crado spent their precious time enjoying their victory.

B) Because she didn't realize what was happening until it was too late.

C) Because there were nine other suns surrounding the ship. [B]Read the comics.

Already answered this, read above. [/B]

It doesn't matter if there were two or a billion stars. A supernova explosion expands faster than his ships maximum speed.

He escaped, but had to fly through the supernova to do that.

Originally posted by IKC
Mostly because he invented the damn weapon, Glentract. Atomic scientists, I believe, were able to predict with reasonable accuracy what the Atomic Bomb was capable of before testing it. That, and the man was a genius at science (not at other things). Why would he not know?

A high percentage of Atomic Scientist, the very people who invented the weapon, believed that the Atomic Bomb would set off a chain reaction that would destroy the planet. It didn't. Why do you think they have that little thing called test runs.

Originally posted by IKC
Wrong yet again. I've answered this. It wasn't exploding until it was too late for her to escape. Why do you continue to argue things you haven't read about? "She must have" is simple bull, Glentract. She didn't know or believe anything of the sort.

Is that your only argument? I have higher level sources then you. Get over it.

It doesn't matter if there were two or a billion stars. A supernova explosion expands faster than his ships maximum speed.

He escaped, but had to fly through the supernova to do that.

Originally posted by IKC
Exactly what difference does this make? How was she supposed to learn this? Was she supposed to look at the script, or something?

"zOMG, ANAKIN SHOULD HAVE KNOWN HE'D GET DISMEMBERED, HE SHOULD HAVE JUMPED SOMEWHERE ELSE!"

Exar learned in within minutes of looking at a holocron. She should have learned it within the months she studied them for.

Arrogance.

Originally posted by IKC
I corrected you to emphasize the point that you know zilch about what you're arguing about.

Is that your only argument? I have higher level sources then you. Get over it.

Originally posted by IKC
There. I corrected you.

lol

Originally posted by IKC
Excuse me... are you taking KOTOR as canon? KOTOR items?

Oh, and need I remind you that the Krath had an army of non-force users in their pocket?

Originally posted by IKC
And it was two people, by the way. Ulic was no Krath, he was a Sith Lord.

Items in KOTOR not affected by gameplay are canon.

Originally posted by IKC
A "mere terrorist attack" could be a nuclear bomb in New York City, Glentract.

I'll run down a small list for you:

Raids on shipyards? Terrorism.

Luring the enemy away and attempting a coup at Coruscant? This may be the only real battle of the Sith War, and even then it caused more wanton destruction and piracy than a true battle would.

Destruction of the Cron Cluster, and therefore Ossus and other surrounding planets? Terrorism.

Terrorism is defined as, "the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear."

During none of those was force used exclusively against civilians.

Originally posted by IKC
Glentract, reference books do not trump primary sources. They cannot. Period.

They do. They are a higher level canon. They can. Period.

Originally posted by IKC
She wasn't present at Deneba, Deneba was a droid ambush. The strikes against shipyards and outposts were after Qel-Droma had joined her. She's never won a battle by herself, not against Force users.

Nor did Exar.

Originally posted by IKC
Lol. And coincidentally you did not read the comics. Don't argue about this until you do, because retreat was the only reason. Mandalore himself stated it.

Is that your only argument? I have higher level sources then you. Get over it.

Originally posted by IKC
Did the Jedi own the clones or control their movements as a whole? Hell no. That's why they're called the republic's army. The Krath army had not one force sensitive.

The Jedi were the generals, the leaders, the controllers of the Army. It was their army.

Originally posted by IKC
Oh really? Can you name them, perchance, or show me where they've used the Force?

No. Because they aren't named, and don't use the Force. Nadd only trained Satal and Aleema.

Can you name all 10,000 PT Jedi? No, you can't, so they don't exist. Ha. I can use your logic too.

Originally posted by IKC
I've already answered this. Are you not aware that he threw the stars at his pursuers? How the hell would the Republic fighters have escaped the supernova when they were vaporized by Sadow's initial action?

Sure. All of them were vaporized. How did Vodo get word of this if that is true? We know that a supernova explodes faster than Sadows ship. Only some of the faster Republic ships were able to get out.

Originally posted by IKC
Sadow was already at full throttle, or damn near so because he was fleeing the Republic, at sublight speeds. He had plenty of time and speed to get away and jump to hyperspace. The gravity well was not, obviously, large enough to hold him in realspace.

It doesn't matter if there were two or a billion stars. A supernova explosion expands faster than his ships maximum speed.

He escaped, but had to fly through the supernova to do that.

Originally posted by IKC
They were dead already. Already answered this.

Then how did Vodo learn about it?

Originally posted by IKC
And your conclusions using the Star Destroyer are weakened by the fact that it is stated explicitly, several times in the comics, that Sadow's ship and weaponry wrenched the cores from stars.

Pretty crappy excuse. The comic is wrong. Logic and science take presendence over it.

Originally posted by IKC
In conclusion: [B]Read the comics. [/B]

In conclusion: Use what sources you have.

Ah, and we dive into the insults when we start losing. Hm.

Oh good, do you want a cookie for that?

Nice and condescending. Actually it lends more credibility to me, whereas we don't know whether or not you're reading the material.

Can you prove definitely that Vodo was stronger than Ulic? Can you indicate definitely that he gained so much more power that he instantly vaulted over guys like Nadd's embodiment, Sadow or even Ragnos?

Vodo was able to restrain Ulic on Coruscant. Granted, this was with the help of other Jedi, but the same Jedi were present when Exar Kun walked into the Senate. (By the way, it's a misconception that Kun froze the Jedi, he only bothered with the hordes of non-force users present. I just looked over the material again). Obviously, Kun then is exponentially more powerful than Ulic, given they didn't even try the same technique on him.

Things get a lot easier to refute when you don't read, doesn't it?

I'd think this applies more to you than me, Illustrious, since we're arguing based on the material in my possession.

First off, it is an assumption if you claim Vodo would have been frozen if he was there. Secondly, he had to maintain the spell, and Vodo walked in, while the rest of the senate was still frozen, he was able to duel Vodo. How do you explain this?

Of course it is an assumption. Why do you think that I typed, "It would not surprise me?"

Second, it is another assumption that he had to maintain his spell. You do not know that, and can't possibly claim to. There's nothing in the comic indicating anything of the sort. And even if he did, that only increases his capabilities, since he was able to both hold the spell and easily defeat the Grandmaster of the Jedi.

How do you explain that?

Again, someone that knows "Sith Magic" hardly qualifies as "nothing special." You need to brush up on lore.

You need to brush up on context. Compare her with other Force users of the time period and she's a small fry, easily brushed away.

That and I reiterate: She knew very little Sith magic, and what she knew was only what Nadd decided to teach her.

No, I was pointing out and laughing at your nonsensical logic in attempting to juxtapose the OUTCOME rather than the circumstance.

You're attempting to compare things based solely on outcome with no supporting evidence. Either find some from your beloved "source material" that is right in front of you, or STFU.

Getting upset, are we?

Tell me something: How are Sadow's and Aleema's actions regarding the stars different in any way? Other than escaping the supernova, they are not. Therefore, they are comparable. You, who have zero evidence, are bringing up hypothetical "zOMG, WHAT IF THEY'RE NOT THE SAME SHIP?!!" when there's no indication of that whatsoever in either comic series, and other such arguments.

Correctly. The author called them "godlike" not me.

So, like Glentract has before, you seize upon one quote and instantly disparage all other evidence for its sake?

Again, Aleema is hardly a weakling in the conventional sense any more than Malak or Revan are weaklings for being able to operate the Star Forge. Your logic doesn't stack up. You haven't been able to indicate that Aleema is a weakling, despite all your slandering of that word.

Yes she is. Was Aleema among the most powerful force users of her time? No. She was a side character, a distraction for the Sith. Her only contribution was the Krath army and her illusions. She is in no way comparable to Revan or Malak. Aleema is a weakling, and she performed the same feat as Naga Sadow. Ergo, Naga Sadow's feat is less impressive.

Okay, and your point being? How does this particularly undermine Sadow's work exactly?

Because it indicates that not all of his impressive feats were due to his Force power alone, making him not the demigod you think he was. I've stated multiple times that Sadow was a scientific genius and a great alchemist. I'm in no way undermining those achievements. I am undermining, rightly, your flawed opinion of his Force power.

You claim Exar is stronger than Sadow, Nadd, and a host of other Ancient Sith, so why exactly would being weaker than Exar be belittling in your opinion? Not to mention you can hardly substantiate your comparisons.

Because she was weaker than Exar, far weaker, at a time when Exar was weak himself. She was weak enough to be blasted away casually and knocked out.

So you're arguing that Kun, who was never known for being a great pilot, can make that one in a million shot that Luke (who was known as a good pilot) barely could?

You're assuming then that Kun is not known to be a good pilot despite that he managed to invade Ossus before the Cron firestorm hit with his personal craft without taking so much as a scratch. It is reasonable to say that Kun is, as a Force user, at least an above-average pilot.

You also assume that Kun would never be able to make the shot, which is ludicrous.

Read Golden Age, Sadow as closer to his goal than you give him credit for.

Really? Is that why Marka Ragnos never dared to attack the Republic? Is that why it's said that he knew the Sith were unprepared for war? Is that why Sadow is credited with bringing about the downfall of the Sith Empire?

Hardly. You use an allusion from a source that details a time BEFORE the golden Age instead of me, who uses the actual Golden Age comics themself. Another bit of faulty logic. Good job.

Never mind that the scrolls Kun studied hail from the Golden Age, and are every bit as reliable. The Sith inflate their own reputations, this is undeniable.

Yes, clearly, once again, Kun's word is law. If Kun says he is god, he clearly is.

Aw, isn't that cute, you seize on the fact that two of my quotes are stated by Kun. Oh, but you ignore all the others.

Nevermind that nothing in the Golden Age contradicts what Kun said. Nevermind that there's no reason for Kun to be wrong, considering he'd spent months upon months reading what Sadow and his followers left behind. You have to believe that Sadow was a demigod.

Continuing after this,

How exactly is Kun saying this more viable evidence than the NARRATOR saying Sadow as godlike again? Oh wait, only to a Kun fanboy.

Who exactly is ignoring the narrator here? You want me to quote him again?

TSW - Narrator, as Aleema flings the star's core at the Jedi and Republic forces: Aleema has used the Sith power in Naga Sadow's ancient ship to rip the core from the center of one of the ten stars in the Cron cluster. She tosses the flaming, radioactive core directly into the midst of her Jedi pursuers... exactly as Exar Kun had planned!

It's Naga Sadow's ship, but is it the very ship Naga Sadow used for the demonstrated Star destruction? You can't prove that. Why? Because I'm asking you to prove something that is far too narrow, and nothing short of say... a serial number can indicate that. You are using the same ridiculous logic.

Yes, it is. You're asking me to prove that it is the very same ship? This is an absolutely ridiculous question akin to asking someone if the Naga Sadow of the Golden Age comics is the same Naga Sadow mentioned in the Dark Lords and Sith War comics. The premise of your question is ludicrous, Illustrious. There's no indication that it is not the same ship, and seeing as Yavin IV was Sadow's final resting place, it goes without saying that his ship would be there as well.

1.) Sadow's ship did the work, ergo he's weak even though the narrator describes numerous times that Sadow and the rest of the Ancient Sith are godlike and powerful.

Sadow's ship did the work, ergo he's not as powerful as you think he is. Have you ever heard of dramatic hyperbole, Illustrious? What is godlike to someone that can't use the force, for instance? And who is to say that later Force users are not godlike and powerful?

2.) Exar Kun, who loots the remnant artifacts of the Ancient Sith is somehow more immersed and more powerful using their ancient teachings than those individuals who were immersed and made the artifacts in the first place.

Even though this is a different argument, I believe this because I submit that Exar Kun was able to study more aspects of the culture and teachings than the ancients had access to.

3.) You know more about Sadow with your excertations of Naga Sadow when I am holding the GOLDEN AGE OF THE SITH in front of me. Weren't you the one arguing with Nai Fohl that the TOTJ about Exar Kun is more accurate than the JA account of Exar's spirit? Funny how the logic works both ways and it's biting you in the ass. You are effectively telling me that Exar's comics have more on Sadow than Sadow's comics.

The problem with your assertion, Illustrious, is that you've offered no contradictions from the comics to anything I've argued. Show me the passage where it reads that Naga Sadow's power is what caused the core to be ripped from a star. Show me the passage where it reads that the ship Naga Sadow fled and destroyed a star on is not the same ship that Kun later found on Yavin IV.

You can't, because your assertions aren't there.