Sidious owns the Confederacy?

For those of you who think Sidious owned the Confederacy and Dooku didn't.

Here is proof. Dooku FOUNDED the damned Confederacy, and I am sure Sidious had no intention of taking it over, considering there was no water-held proof that he did.

Databank sez:

It was Dooku who founded the Confederacy by uniting the most powerful commerce barons in the galaxy to his cause.

Databank sez:

Darth Tyranus led a Separatist movement

Databank sez:
Count Dooku emerged as the leader of the Confederacy of Independent Systems, a militarized force of dissidents challenging the Republic for autonomy.

As the war went on, I'm sure Sidious took control as well. Otherwise, Grievous probably wouldn't give a shit about anything he says, nor would the Separatist Council.

But Dooku was pretty much the owner of everything, yes.

Sidious took over after Dooku's death.

And Sidious did have Secondary say when Dooku was alive.

Out of Rex's mouth:

Dooku probably said "Listen to Sidious or he or I will kill you.

Yup!

read the novilization of episode III and you'll realize that the confederacy would eventually be merged with the republic in a sith empire protected by an order of Sith knights, at least in Dooku's mind...

Well, are you talking proximate or ultimate?

Because ultimately, as Dooku and Grievous did whatever Sidious said, then effectively it WAS under the control of Sidious; he just delegated a lot.

yes dooku owned the confederacy, sidious owned dooku and therefore sidious owned the confederacy.

Originally posted by henniestevens
yes dooku owned the confederacy, sidious owned dooku and therefore sidious owned the confederacy.

Owned isnt the right word, I hope its just a generalisation on your behalf.

Dooku was the Count of Sereeno (Hence the name Count Dooku) and with that money he first founded the Confederacy, the political movement side of it, and then more money was put up by the Trade Federation, Techno Union etc., yet Count Dooku was the one in charge by the orders of Sidious...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, are you talking proximate or ultimate?

Because ultimately, as Dooku and Grievous did whatever Sidious said, then effectively it WAS under the control of Sidious; he just delegated a lot.

This about sums it up. Dooku founded the Confederacy, that was stated. But he was just a puppet of Sidious, Sorgo. When the Council and Grievous came along, if Dooku's orders disputed with Sidious's, who'd you think they'd obey? Sidious. He was the ultimate leader of the Separatists. But not to the public.

Hey, a thread about how much Dooku r0xx00rz! Killer cool!

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, are you talking proximate or ultimate?

Because ultimately, as Dooku and Grievous did whatever Sidious said, then effectively it WAS under the control of Sidious; he just delegated a lot.

Hmm, didn't think about that. My first answer was more ultimate minded, then.

Originally posted by Escape81
This about sums it up. Dooku founded the Confederacy, that was stated. But he was just a puppet of Sidious, Sorgo. When the Council and Grievous came along, if Dooku's orders disputed with Sidious's, who'd you think they'd obey? Sidious. He was the ultimate leader of the Separatists. But not to the public.

Sidious did not "Own" Dooku. Dooku was "Working" for Sidious.

The Army WAS NOT Sidious' Army whatsoever. Dooku GAVE Sidious the power of being a voice of the Confederacy probably after he became his apprentice.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Sidious did not "Own" Dooku. Dooku was "Working" for Sidious.

The Army WAS NOT Sidious' Army whatsoever. Dooku GAVE Sidious the power of being a voice of the Confederacy probably after he became his apprentice.

Really? So he was getting paid? A salary? Dental?

Sorgo, you're going to have to face the facts. Dooku is uber-cool. But so were Maul, Vader, and Grievous. Dooku was Palpatine's puppet. His little b!tch. Sidious gave Dooku orders and Dooku executed them. The CIS was founded by Dooku, but Sidious was the one who gave him the orders to do it. During the war, the Separatist Council and Grievous learned of the true power behind the Confederacy, and thus - they obeyed Sidious.

In authority: Sidious > Dooku.

Actually no. Sidious didn't do a thing for the Confederacy expect destroy them. If the Republic won the war Sidious won, if the Confederacy won the war Sidious won. Sidious just wanted the stronger army so he allowed Dooku to do whatever he wanted in order to learn which side was stronger. The only thing Sidious did was destroy the Confederacy in Revenge of the Sith.

Originally posted by Shadow x 20
Actually no. Sidious didn't do a thing for the Confederacy expect destroy them. If the Republic won the war Sidious won, if the Confederacy won the war Sidious won. Sidious just wanted the stronger army so he allowed Dooku to do whatever he wanted in order to learn which side was stronger. The only thing Sidious did was destroy the Confederacy in Revenge of the Sith.

I don't think so.

Sidious's plan was to initiate a civil war. Thus, he used Count Dooku to create and form the Confederacy. He could not act as its public leader, so he had to create it through the Count. When the war started, the Separatist Council was notified that it was not Count Dooku who truly led the Confederacy, but that he answered to a superior, which was Darth Sidious.

General Grievous (the military commander), Count Dooku (political head of state) and the Separatist Council (the representatives of the Confederate membership) all obeyed Darth Sidious. All were in active communication with him, though Sidious allowed Dooku to give most of the orders for the Confederacy. Sidious's authority in the Confederacy superceded Dooku's own. So, if Dooku ever had a falling out or disagreed, the Separatist Council (governing body) and General Grievous (military commander) still obeyed Sidious. In all of the Expanded Universe works, it has shown that they both fear Sidious more.

Count Dooku was allowed to lead the Confederacy. But I'd imagine that Sidious made his presence known to the Council and to Grievous for a reason. That reason probably was that if Dooku succumbed to temptation, idealism, or vision - and decided to betray Sidious, that the majority of the leadership understood that the true power came from their de facto leader and benefactor, Sidious himself.

So. In authority with the Confederacy, Sidious is superior to Dooku. Dooku's underlings were more of Sidious's underlings. At a snap of his fingers, Sidious could instruct Grievous to have the army stand down. If that didn't work, he could do the same for the Separatist Council.

Sidious > Dooku.

Originally posted by Escape81
Sorgo, you're going to have to face the facts. Dooku is uber-cool. But so were Maul, Vader, and Grievous. Dooku was Palpatine's puppet. His little b!tch. Sidious gave Dooku orders and Dooku executed them. The CIS was founded by Dooku, but Sidious was the one who gave him the orders to do it. During the war, the Separatist Council and Grievous learned of the true power behind the Confederacy, and thus - they obeyed Sidious.

In authority: Sidious > Dooku.

You think just because they obeyed Sidious this means Dooku was automatically in second charge? And I take it you obviously think that because Sidious is the Master he also controls "Dooku's" Army? No... I don't think so. Dooku controlled his Army to his extent. Dooku was Sidious' Apprentice. Not a b!tch, His Apprentice.

Sidious was secondary in charge of the CIS. When Dooku's death came to be, Sidious took full charge. Grievous was also inlisted in Sidious' command. Reason? Dooku's death. If Dooku didn't die, Grievous would still be listening to Dooku. And I am sure Dooku commanded that Grievous listen to Sidious if anything were to happen.

I have provided more direct proof that Dooku controlled the CIS and Sidious did NOT.

Even when Sidious tells Grievous to move it, he says:

DARTH SlDIOUS: General Grievous, I suggest you move the Separatist leaders to Mustafar.

^ A suggestion? Yes.

It says NOWHERE in the Databank or from Lucas that Sidious had any control whatsoever of the CIS. Nor was it obvious.

I don't know. The Trade Federation had its bad times with Sidious and I'm sure they would support Dooku more then Sidious. Not to mention they were all worried in ROTS after Dooku's death.