Sidious owns the Confederacy?

Hitler technically OWNED Rommel, but it was Rommel's damn army, right?

Doesn't matter, Hitler was still the master, the ruler, the controller. The only difference is that Hitler couldn't use the Force to sense or punish Rommel for doing something against his orders.

The bottom line is: You people continue you to say Sidious technically owned the Army when the fact is that he Technically didn't!

Of course... He somewhat subliminally owned the Army through Dooku, but fact being it was Dooku's Army OFFICIALLY.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Hitler technically OWNED Rommel, but it was Rommel's damn army, right?

Doesn't matter, Hitler was still the master, the ruler, the controller. The only difference is that Hitler couldn't use the Force to sense or punish Rommel for doing something against his orders.

And to continue for the thread: Sidious was Dooku's tutor in the ways of the dark side and also his chum although he eventually decieved him (this was the manipulation) and Sidious always held respect and a friend like relationship with both Dooku and Anakin.
Sidious ruled the republic and had to focus his political ruling there. Dooku ruled the confederacy wich wasn't part of the republic. When Dooku came in command; he ruled it till his death no matter whether he agreed with the plan Sidious had deviced or not. Dooku didn't sit on his butt just taking orders.

Think about it. What would Dooku's motivation be to just let Sidious boss him around while he was himself indeed politically minded.
Dooku agreed with the plans of Sidious wich had a role in his leading the confederacy and Dooku learned the ways of the dark side under Sidious. Sidious didn't in fact rule Dooku's whole life. Is this so weird?

Originally posted by Sorgo
Of course... He somewhat subliminally owned the Army through Dooku, but fact being it was Dooku's Army OFFICIALLY.

Well, duh. We established that in Ush and my first posts. Ultimately, the army belonged to Sidious, officially, it belonged to Dooku.

By title, and "officiality," Dooku was the leader. But if that leader is under the command of someone else, then that Someone Else is the mastermind, and LEADER behind it all.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Of course... He somewhat subliminally owned the Army through Dooku, but fact being it was Dooku's Army OFFICIALLY.

Somewhat? 😉

He completely subliminally owned the Army through Dooku. Dooku DID own the army officially, but who cares? He still did whatever Palpy wanted him to do. As far as I can tell, the only reason Sidious didn't "officially" own the army, is because he didn't want to be revealed to the public, yet. Either way, he still controlled Dooku, who in turn did what Sidious wanted him to do with that army.

To summariz it, Sidious used Dooku to create an army for The Republic (Which becomes the Empire at the end of Episode III). He knew that Dooku would die while battling with Anakin. So basically Sidious wanted Anakin to join him because he knew that Anakin would one day take over Sidious' place after Sidious dies. Sidious had planned this all along ever since TPM.

Originally posted by MC_GG
To summariz it, Sidious used Dooku to create an army for The Republic (Which becomes the Empire at the end of Episode III). He knew that Dooku would die while battling with Anakin. So basically Sidious wanted Anakin to join him because he knew that Anakin would one day take over Sidious' place after Sidious dies. Sidious had planned this all along ever since TPM.

He didn't know that Anakin would kill Dooku. He was testing Anakin. He had alot of worried looks on his face during that fight.

Yeah, seriously people, be a bit more open minded.
Sidious and Dooku probably had a good friendship and equal respect towards another. Dooku didn't sit on his ass taking orders, he agreed as with Sidious because he trusted him and could gain much himself. C'mon, he even thought they were going to get little Anakin with all their plans.
To just say; "Sidious gives orders!!!" What does the thread need with that? Sidious betrayed Dooku but Dooku thought the plans were to his best interest aswell!

But let's put it like this: What would the confederacy do if they got contradicting orders from Dooku and Sidious?
I'm just saying that Dooku ruled it officially + with a mind of his own.

To just say that Sidious rules all because he manipulated Dooku is just narrow-minded and useless.

You use the term probably a lot, thus signifying that you have no proof. It is confirmed, Overlord. Dooku was Sidious's apprentice, and Sidious was Dooku's master. He is master by title - and Dooku addresses him as such. There is no 'probably' about it. The facts overwhelm your speculation. Dooku took orders, and yes - he did have a mind of his own - no one has ever denied that. But the fact is he still took orders and did not conflict with his master's wishes - thus he was the subordinate.

Sorry, Overlord.

Dooku took orders from Sidious. PERIOD.

I use that term a lot because I don't state things like facts like most, as it all doesn't exist anyway. Just look at the versus Forum; it's one big bunch of speculation but somehow all discussions were stopped due to people's aggression when it comes to their views of SW.
It even came to such a rediculous point that actually the majority of the people here believed that Darth Vader as master duellist could be beaten by a younger less experienced and hot headed Vader.

But you don't discuss right in this thread. First you bluf around about how great you are at discussing and then when I am drawn into this pointless battle you suddenly try to evade every argument given to support my views or to debunk your arguments.
Suddenly you only focus on the fanboy comment I made and get extremely upset about it and then after a while of ignoring me you return with the same single argument you have constantly used wich is that Sidious orders Dooku.
I have tried to discuss this but you only return with that same line.

I conclude by this that you don't want to discuss but only want to have the last word because why else would it be so important that you say the same thing over and over again?
Point is: you don't come across convincing with these poor arguing skills and you don't want to see my points.

Now this may look harsh but it is what I conclude about your comments.

Originally posted by overlord
I use that term a lot because I don't state things like facts like most, as it all doesn't exist anyway. Just look at the versus Forum; it's one big bunch of speculation but somehow all discussions were stopped due to people's aggression when it comes to their views of SW.
It even came to such a rediculous point that actually the majority of the people here believed that Darth Vader as master duellist could be beaten by a younger less experienced and hot headed Vader.

But you don't discuss right in this thread. First you bluf around about how great you are at discussing and then when I am drawn into this pointless battle you suddenly try to evade every argument given to support my views or to debunk your arguments.
Suddenly you only focus on the fanboy comment I made and get extremely upset about it and then after a while of ignoring me you return with the same single argument you have constantly used wich is that Sidious orders Dooku.
I have tried to discuss this but you only return with that same line.

I conclude by this that you don't want to discuss but only want to have the last word because why else would it be so important that you say the same thing over and over again?
Point is: you don't come across convincing with these poor arguing skills and you don't want to see my points.

Now this may look harsh but it is what I conclude about your comments.

Then why, may I ask, O Great Lord of Debating, that everyone here other than Sorgo has agreed with me, and not with you? Kinda funny. 😄

So.

a) I never said I was 'great' at debating. I merely implied that in this instance, you were failing to provide proof whereas I wasn't.

b) You called me a fanboy, and I refuted it with the fact that I have proof against your claims. I merely wished to put an end to that unruly accusation, and I did.

c) You claim that Sidious and Dooku were friends and Sidious was only his mentor. You also failed to provide proof on this theory, whereas it specifically states - in all Lucasfilm works - that Sidious is Dooku's master (I suggest that you familiarize yourself with that term), and Dooku takes orders (familarize yourself with that one, too) from Sidious. Thus, I have proof where you fail to provide it.

d) Count Dooku was the political head of the Confederacy. General Grievous was its military commander. The Separatist Council consisted of the leaders of the commerce guilds bound to the Confederacy. This represented the leadership of the CIS. All of it. Now, all of them take orders from Sidious. All have been in contact with Sidious. He worked through Dooku, Grievous, and the others. Ultimately, the CIS was completely in Sidious's control.

e) This isn't about Count Dooku and Darth Sidious and which one was better. It has nothing to do with it. But, Dooku took orders from Sidious. He and Sidious were more equal to one another on the intellect and experience level than Sidious and Maul, but it doesn't change the facts. First and foremost, Dooku was Sidious's apprentice, and he took orders.

f) You and Sorgo are also the only two who agree. So, clearly, my poor debating skills must've got the point across somewhere.

And they all lived happily ever after.

a) Yes, you implied it but what were the motives anyway?
Bluffing me out of a discussion?

b) Well, I see that these days you act like anything but a fanboy so consider the comment withdrawn. You still took it a little to seriously though. It's like you felt attacked by that petty word.

c) Your proof is just the word master and claiming that Dooku takes orders wich I dissagreed with and I had to repeat my arguments constantly without any response. Do remember that you are allowed to go into your view much deeply than just saying "He has been called master thus he rules and owns all"
Because if I would change my opinion it certainly wouldn't be by your petty posts.

d) I have been stuck to repeating my arguments constantly when it comes to Dooku following orders, you have ignored them. Should I go type them all again or should I quote them? (omg, check below for yet another summary)

e) You say they had mutual respect but you see this as the same relationship as with Maul. I dissagree with this. Dooku had his own political ambitions and would never let Sidious run all aspects of his life therefor I say that Sidious manipulated Dooku greatly and made him think that all these plans were in Dooku's best interest too as wich would be able to happen in friendly relations with mutual respect.
Dooku's pride was enormous and he is a swordsmaster in his own right but he still let Sidious teach him in the arts of the dark side because it was in his own best interest, so in that case he put his pride away.

f) That is a delusion of grandeur. 😛
They already had set their minds and you don't have anything to do with that, sorry.

a) Merely proving a point.

b) Thought so.

c) You 'disagree' with the fact that Dooku took orders? Lmao! I guess that whole master-apprentice relationship was just a show. This is funny. Lol, you have the petty arguements:

"W0wz0rs!!11@!! Doku calls Sids his MASTER but he re@lly isn1 becuz I sed so becuz I don1 like 2 beleve that Sidz gave ub3r-c00l Doku orderz becuz Doku wuz a strong willed m@n!

That's all you are saying. Doesn't matter. Gunray was a businessman. Despite being a coward, he still took orders from Sidious. Grievous was a strong willed man, and he also took orders from Sidious. So please shut the hell up. Doesn't matter if Dooku has strong will or not. The point is, he's Sidious's b!tch. I didn't ever state that Dooku was ruled completely by Sidious, but he is governed and obeys him. He is his MASTER.

So let me emphasis:

Sidious (Sith Master) was the BOSS/MASTER of Dooku (Apprentice)!

d) You have no arguement. All you say is that Sidious and Dooku were partners. Then why does Dooku call Sidious 'MASTER'? Is logic a foreign concept to you?

e) He 'let' Sidious teach him? Dooku bowed down to Sidious and accepted his tutelage, but also accepted the fact that Sidious was his master. Hello.... MASTER.

f) Lmao. Well, Overlord. Apparently, everyone agrees with me. This needs to be a little message. You're wrong. If anyone has the petty arguement, it's YOU.

Wow, did I anger you or something?

okay.. Here we go:
a) Answer my question again. Do you intend on bluffing me out of it so your ego can be stroked?

b) So, why did you only respond to that then?

c) "Lmao!" Learned a new word or something?
And the response with sarcasm makes you seem scared again. Do you think I'll chicken out of this because you try to degrade me?

The rest is just the same again but this time you include "so shut the hell up" and you make your one argument larger.

d) You obviously don't want to get it, you are merely a stubborn guy who needs to win at all costs. To you Master seems to mean that Dooku is indeed a slave who let's Sidious control his whole life. Do not compare the world of SW to this world though, if they had mutual respect as you admitted then Dooku ever saying "master" would that he expresses his respect towards him.
But do not forget that Dooku was an apprentice on the field of the dark side. I call my painting master also "master." This doesn't mean that he rules my life.
Sidious just had a close friendship with Dooku aswell as he had with all others and manipulated Dooku by not telling all with his advice.
Dooku was actually politically minded and ruled the confederacy as what is the topic of this thread, he agreed with plans because he thought it was also in his best interest.
Apperantly he was wrong. Hence why I say he was manipulated and decieved.

e) Hello master? You place such value on one word. Your whole view of Star Wars depends on it.. Please elaborate instead of discussing this poorly.

f) The whole world could say that Water consists out of blood. It wouldn't make it a fact though. Of course the world of SW isn't real but my point is that you just don't convince me with one little argument.
And if you don't feel the need to convince me of your opinion, then why repeat it for ever? Is it a pride thing?

Oh, Shit...another argument about the skills and requirements of debates.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Oh, Shit...another argument about the skills and requirements of debates.

Oh, wait.. You are just prejudiced towards me..
You don't even have any arguments for your opinions.

Originally posted by overlord
Maybe you could debate with me?
Because I love this kind of stuff! Especially when people get all angry.

Oh, wait.. You are just prejudiced towards me.. You don't even have any arguments for your opinions.

And I would only NOW be prejudiced towards you for this comment.

Originally posted by Tangible God
I'm leaving that to Escape.

And I would only NOW be prejudiced towards you for this comment.