ICEMAN vs. DOOMSDAY

Started by scotsmn8 pages

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Don't put words in my mouth please. Where did i say there's a way for him to avoid being frozen?
I mentioned in my previous post (i think) that if it's just a normal freeze, Doomsday has a certain degree of resistance to cold which would evolve to the point of where he is resistant to the cold attacking him at the moment. That does NOT put him beyond Absolute Zero.
After becoming resistant to the cold attacking him he could concievably simply break out of the icy prison.

Again, please don't twist my words around.

Simply noting that you accept the existence of an ability to withstand even Iceman's level of cold output.

You stated in this post that:
Doomsday might have an existant resistance to cold (I agree otherwise how would he have dealt with space).

He can evolve to withstand the (higher?) levels of cold attacking him.

He cannot resist temperatures beyond absolute zero. (I'm pretty sure absolute zero is as cold as you can possibly get)

What I'm seeing here is an acceptance for DD being immune to ever-increasing levels of cold (decreasing levels of heat). Like I said, just noting it.

Originally posted by scotsmn
Simply noting that you accept the existence of an ability to withstand even Iceman's level of cold output.

You stated in this post that:
Doomsday might have an existant resistance to cold (I agree otherwise how would he have dealt with space).

He can evolve to withstand the (higher?) levels of cold attacking him.

He cannot resist temperatures beyond absolute zero. (I'm pretty sure absolute zero is as cold as you can possibly get)

What I'm seeing here is an acceptance for DD being immune to ever-increasing levels of cold (decreasing levels of heat). Like I said, just noting it.

To an extent, yes. Seeing as how Absolute Zero is as cold as it gets, he would probably (through some completely illogical PIS) evolve some kind of ....... protection against that. I don't know HOW he could do it, but i'm sure he could. But he wouldn't already have that level of resistance. It would be reached gradually.
Also, since this is absolute zero, he would be for all purposes immune to cold from there on.
If he were evolving to protect himself from blunt force, he would never be immune, just at an incredible level of resistance. (since there'll always be someone who can punch harder and harder)

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
What i was saying wasn't a response to you. It was a response to Juntai to tell him my opinion that Doomsday doesn't develop Immunity, just a certain level of resistance. EG: just because he has a level of resistance vs. the powers of the character Ice from DC doesn't mean he's immune to Iceman's powers.
OK, but it's been proven since Superman defeated him physically, nothing at all has been able to even come close to harming him in that manner. After fighting the energy being they mentioned in Hunter/Prey, that type no longer worked at all, period. Waveriders Chronal energy? The sonic attacks they tried and he immediately adapted to?

You're saying it's a mounted defense.
I'm saying it's been proven time and time again he gains a complete immunity without exception.
If you can prove it isn't, go ahead.

Originally posted by Juntai
OK, but it's been proven since Superman defeated him physically, nothing at all has been able to even come close to harming him in that manner. After fighting the energy being they mentioned in Hunter/Prey, that type no longer worked at all, period. Waveriders Chronal energy? The sonic attacks they tried and he immediately adapted to?

You're saying it's a mounted defense.
I'm saying it's been proven time and time again he gains a complete immunity without exception.
If you can prove it isn't, go ahead.

Has anyone with strength MUCH greater than Superman fought him after Supes defeated him physically?
Did he fight another being made of the same energy type that was stronger than the previous one afterwards?
Did anyone later try much more powerful sonic attacks?

I asked you to prove it wrong, and you cannot [as the comics reflect heavily on my representation rather than this 'mounted defense one], but whatever, I'll give it a run.

Has anyone with strength MUCH greater than Superman fought him after Supes defeated him physically?
Yes, GOG was much stronger than Superman. But he still lost.

Did he fight another being made of the same energy type that was stronger than the previous one afterwards?
Not neccisarily the -same- energy, but he was attacked by a far more powerful energy wielding in Waverider, and Waverider could do nothing, and even had his own powers used against him by Doomsday.

Did anyone later try much more powerful sonic attacks?
Not that I know of, but it wouldn't work, because the minute the sonic went off, his body evolved and closed his ears. It doesn't seem any louder would help when he closed his ears completely.

He's taken absolutely everything that anyone has thrown at him in stride and remained unaffected by any innate power and not physically contested since Superman. Until proven otherwise he is conventionally unbeatable.

Doomsday wins...

Iceday wins.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
I agree with Demas. It seems to me Doomsday's "immunity" is an exaggeration. It's basically a huge fortification. That's why it's said that he "evolves". It's a gradual thing. For example, if Doomsday let's say never fought anyone. A school girl walking home from school kicks him in the shin. That doesn't mean afterwards he can't be hurt by punches and kicks anymore. Let's say afterwards, Chuck Norris kicks him in the shin. His resistance grows and grows. Then Superman kicks him in the shin. His resistance advances even more. But by the time it reaches Superman level, to us mere humans it seems invulnerability, since we can't reproduce even THAT kind of attack (which he's evolved past anyway).

In the same way, if he's fought Ice, it doesn't mean he's automatically immune to cold or cold attacks. Just has a certain level of resistance.
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Ding ding ding!

Dark Urizen gets it! 👆

Known Superhuman Powers: The Iceman is a mutant with the superhuman ability to lower his external and internal body temperature, projecting intense coldness from his body. Like any normal human being's, the nerve centers for regulating the Iceman's body temperature are found in the part of the brain called the hypothalamus. However, the Iceman can mentally override his hypothalamus to allow his body temperature to be lowered by an unknown internal mechanism. This ability converts the latent thermal energies in and around his body into an unknown form of energy that is efficiently dissipated. A related mutation has rendered his body tissues unaffected by sub-zero temperatures. The Iceman can consciously, immediately lower his body temperature from its normal 98.6 Fahrenheit to that of -105.7 F within the span of a few tenths of a second.

As his body temperature falls, the surrounding moisture in the air that is in contact with him is similarly lowered. Just as condensed moisture forms frost, this moisture forms an icy covering which encompasses his entire body. It also obscures his facial features. When the Iceman first began to completely lower his body temperature, this covering took on a more snow-like appearance. But as he learned to increase the severity of his coldness, the covering assumed the consistency of crystalline ice that it has today. This ice constantly cracks with any movement of his body, and immediately reforms. (Hence, there is a cracking sound when the Iceman, covered with ice, moves.) Through practice, the Iceman has learned to control the intensity of his coldness, and he can selectively lower the temperature of isolated parts of his body.

The Iceman can use his mutant ability to freeze any local air moisture into super-hard ice. This ice can be formed into any object of his choosing: the only limitations are his own imagination, his skill as a sculptor, the amount of available moisture, and the ambient air temperature which determines how long his ice sculpture will stay icy. He does not have to hold the ice physically with his hands in order lo shape it. Apparently he can simply direct the waves of coldness he projects in certain ways so as to create ice in the shape he desires. In the past, the Iceman has formed ice-ladders, ice-slides, ice-shields, and ice-bats.

The Iceman is able to form a rising column of ice beneath his feet, capable of lifting him off the ground. The tensile strength of the column is determined by its thickness, and its steadiness by how well it has been braced. A well-braced and regular column, 6 feet in diameter at its base, is able to support his weight without toppling for about 85 feet in a 20-mile per hour wind. By forming long ice-ramps connected either to his ice-column or to an existing structure like a building or a bridge, the Iceman is able to travel above the ground by sliding down the ramp he is creating. Unless he creates supports periodically, the ramp will crack beneath him, unable to support their combined weight.

Theoretically, the Iceman has an almost unlimited supply of moisture at all times since it is always present in the surrounding air or environment. Even desert air has sufficient moisture content for him to make practical use of, although the process takes somewhat longer. However, the mental effort needed to employ his mutant power can eventually fatigue him and render his freezing ability temporarily disfunctional.

Like that of any trained athlete, the Iceman's ability to perform is directly related to his daily physical health and current mental state. Under normal conditions, he can usually form ice continually for a period of about 3 hours before becoming exhausted.

I don't think Iceman can get it cold enough to freeze Doomsday for more than a moment and Iceman can just reform every time he gets smashed. There's no where to go.

Originally posted by Juntai
I asked you to prove it wrong, and you cannot [as the comics reflect heavily on my representation rather than this 'mounted defense one], but whatever, I'll give it a run.

Has anyone with strength MUCH greater than Superman fought him after Supes defeated him physically?
Yes, GOG was much stronger than Superman. But he still lost.

Did he fight another being made of the same energy type that was stronger than the previous one afterwards?
Not neccisarily the -same- energy, but he was attacked by a far more powerful energy wielding in Waverider, and Waverider could do nothing, and even had his own powers used against him by Doomsday.

Did anyone later try much more powerful sonic attacks?
Not that I know of, but it wouldn't work, because the minute the sonic went off, his body evolved and closed his ears. It doesn't seem any louder would help when he closed his ears completely.

He's taken absolutely everything that anyone has thrown at him in stride and remained unaffected by any innate power and not physically contested since Superman. Until proven otherwise he is conventionally unbeatable.

Gog is physically stronger than Superman? 🤨
You sure bout that? Cause it seemed to me in the kingdom that he was kinda avoiding physical contact and just using his staff 😬

Ah yes, Waverider. But did waverider attack him with the exact same energy signature?

Right. More banshee-ish. I was thinking more unknown particle aka black bolt-ish. My bad.

Call me pig-headed, but i still stand by my idea that he doesn't gain immediate immunity, but a "fortified defense" as you call it.

Originally posted by golem370
Theoretically, the Iceman has an almost unlimited supply of moisture at all times since it is always present in the surrounding air or environment. Even desert air has sufficient moisture content for him to make practical use of, although the process takes somewhat longer. However, the mental effort needed to employ his mutant power can eventually fatigue him and render his freezing ability temporarily disfunctional.

😱
Don't show this to scotsmn. He'll cry 🙁

I haven't seen it happen, but it might have:

Theoretically, isn't the only way to kill Doomsday for good going to be that they take away his power to evolve and become immune? Say you confine him well enough and get all the best scientists, including Batman of course, to study him and find that gene out. They remove it. He's therefore vulnerable to everything again - they shoot him in the face and kill him, and he can't evolve. How many people agree that they should do this and stop bringing him back? Ultimate destruction type of stories are awesome, yes, but when you get a character that just CONSTANTLY is going to come back, can never be defeated in any way, blah blah blah, its just repetitive and pointless. Doomsday is a fantastic character with, as we've seen, vast amounts of potential - but it gets old when you even send him to the end of the world and he just so happens to come back. There needs to be some sort of end to everything, no matter how awesome a character is.

Originally posted by NoFate007
I haven't seen it happen, but it might have:

Theoretically, isn't the only way to kill Doomsday for good going to be that they take away his power to evolve and become immune? Say you confine him well enough and get all the best scientists, including Batman of course, to study him and find that gene out. They remove it. He's therefore vulnerable to everything again - they shoot him in the face and kill him, and he can't evolve. How many people agree that they should do this and stop bringing him back? Ultimate destruction type of stories are awesome, yes, but when you get a character that just CONSTANTLY is going to come back, can never be defeated in any way, blah blah blah, its just repetitive and pointless. Doomsday is a fantastic character with, as we've seen, vast amounts of potential - but it gets old when you even send him to the end of the world and he just so happens to come back. There needs to be some sort of end to everything, no matter how awesome a character is.

He should've somehow.......killed himself during the whole 100 year war with Gog storyline. It would've completely made me break into tears. I was already teary eyed when he said "Do i have to become a monster again?" 😮 . That would've been an incredible end for Doomsday. Wearing the Superman cape and dying to save an ideal cry

Has batman ever kicked DD?

Originally posted by long pig
Has batman ever kicked DD?

They did "fight" i think, but i can't remember.
ps: you should have 8 evil smilies in your sig 😈

Doomsday wins...

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I don't think Iceman can get it cold enough...

O'RLY? 🙂

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
To an extent, yes. Seeing as how Absolute Zero is as cold as it gets, he would probably evolve some kind of ....... protection against that. I don't know HOW he could do it, but i'm sure he could.

O'RLY? protection against the cold? Interesting concept. 😎

Originally posted by scotsmn
O'RLY? protection against the cold? Interesting concept. 😎

Wow. If you make a comparison between doomsday and wolverine, you're gonna get crucified.................and rightfully so.