Spectre runs loose in the MU

Originally posted by Fishy 500
[B]
IMO the name TOAA was derived from the celestial who is also known as the TOAA.

The truth behind TOAA is that LT serves a force or being higher than him. Readers/posters (from Comixtreme, Superherochat, Comicbookresource, and others) referred to this being who LT refered to as being above him as the One Above All. It wasn't derived from the Celestial one.

Furthmore, TOAA has always been referenced as being Marvel's top being because unlike all other so called supreme being, LT has always been guardian of the multiverse. Unlike Infinity, the Pre-Rec Beyonder, the Infinites, Genesis, LT has remained more or less at the top of the hierarchy. But LT's still a servant. TOAA is how posters acknowledge the being LT serves.

As for GOD, there is no GOD in Marvel. Both Thanos and Warlock have referred to themselves as GOD when they held the IG. In truth, MU does not have GOD.

People equate TOAA as MU's supreme being. They also view GOD as the supreme being. Hence, people put LT serves GOD and at other times they throughout TOAA.

People who don't know this often get confused and think that the Christianity, Catholocism, Kaballah GOD is MU's supreme being. Marvel acts as a neutral party. That's why you rarely see any one religion being at MU's top hierarchy.

Odin, Zeus, Vishnnu, and such gods from actual religions are below creations such as LT, Eternity, Galactus, and the Celestials.

It's not some invention by Killermovies.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats what im trying to say. 🙁

Based on those few vague lines and his role you really cant make a case for him being servant to the supreme being. Not when powers beyond the IG and Eternity have appeared since then and, not with the number of occassions his judgements have been overturned or shrugged off.

When has his judgement been overturned? His judgement was to prevent Korvac from the multivese. That was his judgement.

Phoenix has a better case for being linked with God but i'll gladly say that thats not canon until its stated. It just amazes me that the same people who dismissed my decently supported connection theory can happily accept an LT god connection with little to no on panel evidence. It has to work both ways.

Nobody accepts LT is connected with GOD. Your confused. TOAA is what people refers to as LT's master. LT has consistently ruled and safeguarded the multiverse. Yet he serves one who's above him.

Poster refer to that being as TOAA. And as such, GOD is connected with TOAA because both are the supreme being of their multiverse. People equate supreme beings as being the same. It's like Presence and TOAA being the same thing. DC and Marvel's top beings.

Presence has also been refered to as GOD, but DC is also more religious (actual religion) based than Marvel. MU doesn't GOD or even angels as top beings like DC. Dude, your so confused.

Originally posted by Beyonder
The truth behind TOAA is that LT serves a force or being higher than him. Readers/posters (from Comixtreme, Superherochat, Comicbookresource, and others) referred to this being who LT refered to as being above him as the One Above All. It wasn't derived from the Celestial one.

Furthmore, TOAA has always been referenced as being Marvel's top being because unlike all other so called supreme being, LT has always been guardian of the multiverse. Unlike Infinity, the Pre-Rec Beyonder, the Infinites, Genesis, LT has remained more or less at the top of the hierarchy. But LT's still a servant. TOAA is how posters acknowledge the being LT serves.

As for GOD, there is no GOD in Marvel. Both Thanos and Warlock have referred to themselves as GOD when they held the IG. In truth, MU does not have GOD.

People equate TOAA as MU's supreme being. They also view GOD as the supreme being. Hence, people put LT serves GOD and at other times they throughout TOAA.

People who don't know this often get confused and think that the Christianity, Catholocism, Kaballah GOD is MU's supreme being. Marvel acts as a neutral party. That's why you rarely see any one religion being at MU's top hierarchy.

Odin, Zeus, Vishnnu, and such gods from actual religions are below creations such as LT, Eternity, Galactus, and the Celestials.

It's not some invention by Killermovies.

No offence but all of this isnt advancing your case. You have no evidence to say that LTs master is the supreme being. Nothing at all.

On top of that stop getting caught up on the word God. Its obvious that we mean the supreme being so just let it go. Whats the point in picking on it? It doesnt help you out.

Calling LT's master TOAA based on him saying his master is above Eternity and the IG is misleading because there are forces shown on panel with better feats. HOTU and Phoenix hands down have better on panel feats than those two. See what i mean?

Prove LT's master is the supreme being by on panel statements and you can preach this line of argument as if it was canon. Until then. You cannot. Simple as that.

Originally posted by Beyonder
When has his judgement been overturned? His judgement was to prevent Korvac from the multivese. That was his judgement.

Nobody accepts LT is connected with GOD. Your confused. TOAA is what people refers to as LT's master. LT has consistently ruled and safeguarded the multiverse. Yet he serves one who's above him.

Poster refer to that being as TOAA. And as such, GOD is connected with TOAA because both are the supreme being of their multiverse. People equate supreme beings as being the same. It's like Presence and TOAA being the same thing. DC and Marvel's top beings.

Presence has also been refered to as GOD, but DC is also more religious (actual religion) based than Marvel. MU doesn't GOD or even angels as top beings like DC. Dude, your so confused.

Im not confused at all Beyonder. Thats the funny thing. Accept the fact that i mean supreme being when i say God. Its quite obvious from the context. Stop trying to make a point out of it.

Youre saying LT's master is above all based on the fact that hes beyond the IG and Eternity. Quite a few beings are im afraid so thats misleading.

Apparently in Journey to mystery before the IG and its related series Demi said Odin referred to a supreme being called TOAA. Thats actually where the name came from.

LT never siad that was his master. Which as an established name for the supreme being you think he wouldve had.

Theres no concrete evidence connecting LT to the supreme being of Marvel. Thats a fact.

Being beyond the IG and Eternity does not make you the supreme being. Thats another fact.

You have no evidence to make your opinion conclusively canon. Final fact.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Again i dont need to reply to all of this because you have provided nothing conclusive at all or refernced no on panel evidence which conclusively says or shows that Lt serves the supreme being or that LT is above the IG himself.

At the end of the day, yes LT restored order but thats nothing conclusive because as aforementioned Dr Strange has countered the IG's attacks before. You cant just dismiss that feat as Adam going easy on Dr Strange because we know for a fact that the IG has the power to destroy Eternity and the other abstracts yet it didnt. Why? Because it was just a display of anger, he wasnt unleashing the full power of the IG or they would have died in the seconds it took for LT to shut off the power surge.

I can't dismissed that? Why don't you point to me where Strange was during the IG? When Thanos had it? Strange and Warlock use the element of suprise to get the IG from Nebula. As for Warlock, he was pulling attacks from each gem. Strange even needed Galactus' help to save him from Agamotto.

As for LT, he restored order after Warlock put Eternity on his knees with one blast and then stomped everyone from Chaos and Order to Eternity and Galactus. I guess you are silly if you think Warlock was attack Strange in the same sense he was at the deities. Strange couldn't do jack to Agamotto and fainted just because Galactus telepathically linked Strange to the events of IW.

So LT restoring order with a snap of his fingers isnt conclusive evidence that hes more powerful than the IG. All that showed is that he can counter its power alot easier than Dr S with his artifacts but then thats to be expected. 😉

Isn't conclusive? Eternity himself and a host of others couldn't. He even restored them back to their place. Show me where LT was even affected by the IG or the IG even reversed one of LT's attack?

If Adam intended to kill them he would have done. He to wasnt unleashing his full power in that scene so saying Adam was going easy on Dr S is a moot point.

Moot point? Again, where was this Strange that could counter the IG when Thanos were slapping the deities left and right? Where was he when Thanos or Nebula froze/transmutted the deities? Strange was venturing issue by issue to save a selected group of heroes Thanos beat.

Lt wasnt shown or stated to be more powerful. He stated that his master was more powerful, he then went on to say he didnt know how his power would fare and not wanting to find out he persuaded Adam to give up for the sake of the universe.

Are you done? IG, Warlock #1, and even IW showed LT's powers over the IG. Never once did the IG do a thing to LT. And it was Warlock that finished the line about power. LT never said he didn't know. Maybe you can show me where the IG even affected LT in the least? Or where the IG had even reversed an edict of LT. There isn't one.

Sorry mate not good enough.

What does Jggg have to do with anything? Phoenix has multiple high end feats to choose from so thats a moot point.

Like not being able to crack Magneto's shield?

The purpose of me highlighting those low showings of LT was to say that not only did LT say he didnt know how he'd do against the IG but his track record means it doesnt stand to reason that he'd be more powerful than the IG. Hes been thwarted by forces less powerful than it and hes done nothing to show conclusively that hes more powerful than it.

And again, where did it show the IG having any affect on LT or even reversing anything LT did?

As for the StarBrand, it wasnt a multiversal power. Where did u get that from? It was a power that wasnt accounted for in the multiverse as stated in Quasar 57 i believe. (But obviously its apart of Marvels megaverse which is slightly different.) Either way he sealed it off and left. So its not a feat for him, it just shows that hes not supreme within Marvel creation.[/B]

Who said he was supreme? The Star Brand was going to be used as to attain the multiverse. You wanna disagree. Fine. LT still sealed it. Where did it show that LT was in danger by it? And where are you getting this idea that LT's only judgement is destroying things?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im not confused at all Beyonder. Thats the funny thing. Accept the fact that i mean supreme being when i say God. Its quite obvious from the context. Stop trying to make a point out of it.

Point out what? You bring Seraphims, the White Crown, and Kaballah to make your case and yet your saying your not equating Phoenix to GOD? Please stop lying through your tongue.

Youre saying LT's master is above all based on the fact that hes beyond the IG and Eternity. Quite a few beings are im afraid so thats misleading.

Who are above the IG again?

Apparently in Journey to mystery before the IG and its related series Demi said Odin referred to a supreme being called TOAA. Thats actually where the name came from.

That's another TOAA. And that's what Demi thinks. Other than this board, do you even venture out to other messageboards G.S.? Odin has also fought an evil version of himself known as Infinity. But decades later it was said that Odin had tapped into a part of Infinity (the opposite of Eternity) and fought it. That TOAA is different from the TOAA we're discussing.

LT never siad that was his master. Which as an established name for the supreme being you think he wouldve had.

Theres no concrete evidence connecting LT to the supreme being of Marvel. Thats a fact.

It's not. LT is at the top. What part of that don't you understand? It never outright states that the Presence was DC's top being either. Presence even deserted creation and has had trouble with Lucifer.

Being beyond the IG and Eternity does not make you the supreme being. Thats another fact.

No, it just makes you far above the rest of the cosmic elite. Find me someone other than LT more powerful then the IG?

You have no evidence to make your opinion conclusively canon. Final fact. [/B]

That LT is MU's top visible being? Show me another.

LT could not stop Korvac and for all we know he could have found a way to exit that universe he killed himself not the other way around that someone else killed him in the end LT still didnt take the IG he had to ask for it this wasnt like when Lucifer gave up the keys of hell and the preseance said give them up he didnt even ask just said give them up and it was done LT doudted his own power if he doudts his own power against an object that only controlls one universe how can he do against a being who has been shown taking out higher level dimensions?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No offence but all of this isnt advancing your case. You have no evidence to say that LTs master is the supreme being. Nothing at all.

On top of that stop getting caught up on the word God. Its obvious that we mean the supreme being so just let it go. Whats the point in picking on it? It doesnt help you out.

It's obvious? It's obvious your bringing in angels/seraphims, the White Crown, and Kaballah to prove Phoenix is an aspect of GOD. Then turning around and saying that TOAA is not GOD, asking for evidence of where it says LT serves GOD.

You've also referred to GOD as part of the MU. Why else would you equate LT as the angel Metatron and since PF represents the White Crown, PF>LT.

Calling LT's master TOAA based on him saying his master is above Eternity and the IG is misleading because there are forces shown on panel with better feats. HOTU and Phoenix hands down have better on panel feats than those two. See what i mean?

Hands down Thanos didn't know why he got the HOTU or who set it up. Even when he had supreme power, he regarded LT as being at the top. Phoenix was not shown or mentioned.

As for feats, what feats does PF have? None that can even compare. PF even needs host to deal with each universe. It's no different than Galactus, Eternity, Death who all have counterparts in each universe.

There's only one LT.

Prove LT's master is the supreme being by on panel statements and you can preach this line of argument as if it was canon. Until then. You cannot. Simple as that. [/B]

LT>IG. LT>PF. PF has done nothing to prove she's even on LT's level. Nor can you provide me with a list of people that could even prevent the IG's powers.

Heck, find me a being that has feats that surpass LT? Thanos with the HOTU? Thanos attaining the HOTU was for a purpose. He was meant for it. Hence he attained such power and LT was not able to stop him.

Originally posted by Mider
[B]LT could not stop Korvac and for all we know he could have found a way to exit that universe he killed himself not the other way around that someone else killed him[/quot]

LT closed it. And Korvac did what against LT or his ruling?

[quote]
in the end LT still didnt take the IG he had to ask for it this wasnt like when Lucifer gave up the keys of hell and the preseance said give them up he didnt even ask just said give them up and it was done LT doudted his own power if he doudts his own power against an object that only controlls one universe how can he do against a being who has been shown taking out higher level dimensions?

That's funny since LT was never threatened by the IG. And Oshtur and Hoggoth have asked/reasoned with Agamotto using the lines of "with great power..." like LT did. But would you say that both Oshtur and Hoggoth did not have the power to stop Agamotto when each of the two were his equal?

Again i dont need to answer this because youre bringing nothing new to the table.

Its just more opinion and why you think Lts the supreme beings servant and why hes more powerful than the IG when nothing conclusive was shown or stated.

With the Dr Strange thing. I think the confusion and disbelief from yourself must be coming from the fact that you havent seen the battle that took place between Dr Strange and Adam. If thats the case allow me to re-direct you to the Strange respect thread.

Gem for gem DS countered all of Adams attacks just like that. LT restored with a snap of his fingers. As aforementioned all that shows is hes more powerful than Strange because after LT did this he still went on to agree with Adam that he didnt know if his power was enough to stand up to the IG and Adam still believed that he was more powerful than LT because as he stated LT had yet to prove he was up to the task.

On top of that Adam as stated by LT due to the omniscience granted to him by the IG already knew what LT was thinking and what his juddement would be.

With all that mind LT wasnt conclusively more powerful than the IG. As stated by Adam he had yet to prove it on panel and even after restoring order Adam was still confident in his ability to withstand LT. Why? Because as aforementioned it wasnt his full power unleashed. If it was Galactus and the like would have been incinerated. Therefore again i say your point about Adam going easy on Strange in their 1 on 1 battle is moot. LT never countered a full powered attack from Adam.

Sorry B

And whats this about Jean and a magnetic shield. Youre missing the point Bey. It doesnt matter. I have high end feats of Phoenixes which outclass the IG's feats so thats irrelevant.

LT has done nothing beyond the Ig's feats and on top of that Korvac shrugged off Lt's judgement and LT gave up and fled:

With that in mind the fact that he has such low feats but no high feats to counter them means that it doesnt stand to reason that hes beyond the IG. He hasnt shown in it, you have nothing conclusive.

Please understand that that scene with LT restoring order it is open to interpretation. If LT and Adam had an all out battle and then he shrugged off AWs attempts and then retrieved the IG, then you'd have your conclusive proof. Right now you have nothing but your interpretation of that scene and a few low showings from LT.

He is not conclusively servant of the supreme being

He is not conclusively above the IG. None of his other appearances support that in the slightest.

As for the Star Brand it was not going to be used to attain the multiverse. The wielder of the SB went to to the nexus of realities and from there sought to destroy the balance of power within the multiverse. The StarBrand wasnt a multiversal power im afraid that wasnt stated and when you consider that they had to go to the nexus of realities to wreck havoc across the multiverse, it wasnt shown.

Either way LT dealt with the StarBrand the same way he dealt with Korvac. He sealed it away and left.

You were the one who said LT was supreme in Marvel creation and you used that as the reason why his master was likely to be the supreme being. Youve said that a number of times in this thread so dont try and change it around now.

You have no evidence to back your claims. Just your unsupported opinion.

Not good enough.

Sorry Be.

oh LT you jobber Spectre would probably defeat all the cosmics would be kinda fun to watch.

Spectre would defeat everyone then have a climatic battle with LT and then be stopped MAYBE by TOAA but then again he might just indeed be stopped.

Originally posted by Mider
LT could not stop Korvac and for all we know he could have found a way to exit that universe he killed himself not the other way around that someone else killed him in the end LT still didnt take the IG he had to ask for it this wasnt like when Lucifer gave up the keys of hell and the preseance said give them up he didnt even ask just said give them up and it was done LT doudted his own power if he doudts his own power against an object that only controlls one universe how can he do against a being who has been shown taking out higher level dimensions?

He not only doubted his power against such an object but was later thoroughly owned by one of such, HOTU.

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
He not only doubted his power against such an object but was later thoroughly owned by one of such, HOTU.

Agreed he only doubted how he would fare against the IG but at the same time he hasnt done anything on panel to show hes beyond the IG.

for some reason the LT has been hyped up in the bio i read of him in marveldirectory he was never said to be the most powerful but one of the most powerful entities that could make a sun go nova and had the power to kill an entire planet if need be were does this say that he is the most powerful of all the cosmics he has been shown to run away when there has been someone shown to maybe have enough power to take him how pathetic is that? how can he defeat the likes of Spectre who's powers have clearly been displayed to be in my words.......WAY THE HELL UP THERE. defeating fifth dimension imps not only one or two but the whole darn dimension and fighting the wizard shazam and taking out almost all magic in the DCU wow thats insane power killing gods MORE INSANE POWER and yes he has supposidly done so in the spectre annuals and if you all wish to know the time twisters which are cannon characters i would hope had the power to reverse or forward time supposidly being beyond even the judgement of the living tribunal in other words they might just snap there fingers and make the LT so younge that he would go to the time he was never born and thus be erased but ageing him to death might not work cause im not sure if he is immortal but yeah the reverse time thing for sure might help he has not shown to be beyond time has he? ive heard that Spectre is though.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

With the Dr Strange thing. I think the confusion and disbelief from yourself must be coming from the fact that you havent seen the battle that took place between Dr Strange and Adam. If thats the case allow me to re-direct you to the Strange respect thread.

That respect thread? No disrespect to Longpig, but it's a respect. You think that thread includes everything in the book? That respect thread said Strange beat Death and resurrected everyone. Problem being panels where it said Galactus resurrected himself and everyone else. Strange was actually the first to die and the others slowly ending up where he was.

And how funny that in that same thread, Strange was owned by Agamotto and saved by Galactus. Did you complete forget that? Also, the scan where Strange knocked Galactus down, it left out where Strange knew he couldn't win against Galactus and therefore gave in. Then Galactus showed Strange what was happening to Eternity and that was all it took to K.O. Strange. Just information about Eternity's frozen state put Strange down. Nova had to catch him.

Gem for gem DS countered all of Adams attacks just like that. LT restored with a snap of his fingers. As aforementioned all that shows is hes more powerful than Strange because after LT did this he still went on to agree with Adam that he didnt know if his power was enough to stand up to the IG and Adam still believed that he was more powerful than LT because as he stated LT had yet to prove he was up to the task.

All that shows is he's more powerful than Strange? You make that sound as if I had to throw all this evidence out so you can come to the conclusion that LT>Strange? 🙄

Strange got K.O.ed just because Galactus telepathically linked him with the events of IW and Eternity ending up catatonic. But I guess you think Strange is above Eternity, Galactus, Chaos, and Order.

On top of that Adam as stated by LT due to the omniscience granted to him by the IG already knew what LT was thinking and what his juddement would be.

Yes, and Warlock still couldn't harm LT, nor was the IG ever able to reverse any of LT attack.

With all that mind LT wasnt conclusively more powerful than the IG. As stated by Adam he had yet to prove it on panel and even after restoring order Adam was still confident in his ability to withstand LT. Why? Because as aforementioned it wasnt his full power unleashed. If it was Galactus and the like would have been incinerated. Therefore again i say your point about Adam going easy on Strange in their 1 on 1 battle is moot. LT never countered a full powered attack from Adam.

Thing is Warlock was just beginning the attack. His attack was no different from Thanos'. But where was Strange when Thanos attacked? Where was Strange during the trial if you could counter Warlock? Strange is one of Eternity's champion. Where was he when Eternity was being attacked? He could've defended weak Eternity and Galactus?

Sorry B

Apology accepted.

And whats this about Jean and a magnetic shield. Youre missing the point Bey. It doesnt matter. I have high end feats of Phoenixes which outclass the IG's feats so thats irrelevant.

Which ones again? Um, none.

LT has done nothing beyond the Ig's feats and on top of that Korvac shrugged off Lt's judgement and LT gave up and fled:

With that in mind the fact that he has such low feats but no high feats to counter them means that it doesnt stand to reason that hes beyond the IG. He hasnt shown in it, you have nothing conclusive.

No high feats? Who stopped Korvac again? Eternity? Sure as heck wasn't Phoenix.

Please understand that that scene with LT restoring order it is open to interpretation. If LT and Adam had an all out battle and then he shrugged off AWs attempts and then retrieved the IG, then you'd have your conclusive proof. Right now you have nothing but your interpretation of that scene and a few low showings from LT.

He is not conclusively servant of the supreme being

- Eternity asked LT to stop Thanos
- Eternity asked LT to stop Warlock
- Warlock attacks court, LT stops it easily and restored ordered. Warlock is stunned.
- LT ruled against Warlock. LT shuts off the IG and allows Warlock to find new gem holders.
- Magus with the six Cosmic Cubes, still wanted the IG. Had to get LT for overturn his ruling.
- The IG has never ever affect LT.

He is not conclusively above the IG. None of his other appearances support that in the slightest.

That's funny since LT was in no way threatened by the IG.

As for the Star Brand it was not going to be used to attain the multiverse. The wielder of the SB went to to the nexus of realities and from there sought to destroy the balance of power within the multiverse. The StarBrand wasnt a multiversal power im afraid that wasnt stated and when you consider that they had to go to the nexus of realities to wreck havoc across the multiverse, it wasnt shown.

Either way LT dealt with the StarBrand the same way he dealt with Korvac. He sealed it away and left.

And who stopped these beings? LT. Did these beings/power over turn what LT did? Nope. Heck in Korvac's case, LT was doing the job while the deities relied on LT.

You were the one who said LT was supreme in Marvel creation and you used that as the reason why his master was likely to be the supreme being. Youve said that a number of times in this thread so dont try and change it around now.

Nobodies changing anything around. LT is still above everyone else. And the deities turn to LT, no one else.

You have no evidence to back your claims. Just your unsupported opinion.

Not good enough.

Sorry Be. [/B]

That's funny cause even in his early appearances, LT has been relied upon by cosmic deities alike.

Sealing off Korvac and the Star Brand is a low end feat? Last time I checked, Phoenix couldn't even beat Arishem the Celestial and Jean gets killed by Magneto. Those early appearances take nothing away from him. If you want, Dark Phoenix was manipulated into a fantasy world by a 2nd rate mutant in her earlier appearances.

Furthermore, Dweller In Darkness was afraid LT might intervene in his plans. While observing LT in awe, it showed LT holding the brothers in his hand. Also refered to LT consulting his spectral hooded ally (Spectre) regarding the Brothers. Dweller was afraid of LT, not Phoenix. And Phoenix had to convince everyone not to be afraid just to beat Dweller in Darkness. And that squable was over one universe.

And GS, you yourself have refered to this event to dismiss the Brother's being the supreme being of Marvel and DC.

All of them together, most likely they would drain him quickly but would not be able to kill him. A powerless Spectre could not be killed (DOV 5/6). If he were to take them down individually. Those from Death and abv will survive..below dies.

Originally posted by Mider
for some reason the LT has been hyped up in the bio i read of him in marveldirectory he was never said to be the most powerful but one of the most powerful entities that could make a sun go nova and had the power to kill an entire planet if need be were does this say that he is the most powerful of all the cosmics he has been shown to run away when there has been someone shown to maybe have enough power to take him how pathetic is that? how can he defeat the likes of Spectre who's powers have clearly been displayed to be in my words.......WAY THE HELL UP THERE. defeating fifth dimension imps not only one or two but the whole darn dimension and fighting the wizard shazam and taking out almost all magic in the DCU wow thats insane power killing gods MORE INSANE POWER and yes he has supposidly done so in the spectre annuals and if you all wish to know the time twisters which are cannon characters i would hope had the power to reverse or forward time supposidly being beyond even the judgement of the living tribunal in other words they might just snap there fingers and make the LT so younge that he would go to the time he was never born and thus be erased but ageing him to death might not work cause im not sure if he is immortal but yeah the reverse time thing for sure might help he has not shown to be beyond time has he? ive heard that Spectre is though.

Shazam is skyfather level.
LT and Eternity held a meeting at the 16th dimension.
Spectre isn't above LT at all.

and why do you say that do you have any proof or are you going on by whats been said?

Originally posted by Beyonder
Shazam is skyfather level.
LT and Eternity held a meeting at the 16th dimension.
Spectre isn't above LT at all.

DC has less dimensions(at least according to Mr.mxyptl's, first issue, however you spell it), and Mr.Mxy took down a being from the highest dimension who'd destroyed all beings above the 5th, if IIRC, spectre took him down. The LT was owned by a being using the HOTU, from what I'm hearing it seems like the spectre hasn't been owned.