hmmm Spectre has killed gods, a being who has defeated the anti-monitor, lords of chaos and order that are above skyfathers 700 magicians at once the IG couldnt even hurt one magician which was Dr Strange and just because he is who he is doesnt mean that other DCU mages couldnt do other feats that are as good or even better then his as in black alice who has stolen the powers of other mages and is just a kid and zatanna also a very powerful mage and Dr Fate of course who is Strange's equal, Swampthing who has defeated the or battled the word all these beings couldnt defeat the anti-monitor and yet Spectre defeated a god that did so and your saying LT can stand up to this? Why do you defend the LT he has shown no such feats ive already told you how his feats have failed against the likes of Korvac you dont seem to believe me get the comic if you dont believe me read it for yourself and see how he was a coward and ran off.
Originally posted by Beyonder
That respect thread? No disrespect to Longpig, but it's a respect. You think that thread includes everything in the book? That respect thread said Strange beat Death and resurrected everyone. Problem being panels where it said Galactus resurrected himself and everyone else. Strange was actually the first to die and the others slowly ending up where he was.And how funny that in that same thread, Strange was owned by Agamotto and saved by Galactus. Did you complete forget that? Also, the scan where Strange knocked Galactus down, it left out where Strange knew he couldn't win against Galactus and therefore gave in. Then Galactus showed Strange what was happening to Eternity and that was all it took to K.O. Strange. Just information about Eternity's frozen state put Strange down. Nova had to catch him.
All that shows is he's more powerful than Strange? You make that sound as if I had to throw all this evidence out so you can come to the conclusion that LT>Strange? 🙄
Strange got K.O.ed just because Galactus telepathically linked him with the events of IW and Eternity ending up catatonic. But I guess you think Strange is above Eternity, Galactus, Chaos, and Order.
So can you show me where in any of the above you've managed to counter my point about Strange. Sorry mate it just hasnt happened.
You made the assumption that LT was more powerful than the IG because he countered a power surge from Adam. Thats not good enough my friend. Why? Because
a) The IG made Adam considerably more powerful than all the abstract entities therefore if the blast was full power he would have destroyed them. The fact that all of them survived just fine before LT's restored order tells you that it wasnt a full power blast. With that in mind restoring order doesnt not equate you to being as powerful as the IG. It just showed that LT was more powerful than the abstracts, so he dealt with the blast better than they ever could have hoped to.
b) Dr Strange has countered Adam with the IG. (Im guessing you havent seen this scene yet because that is the only explanation i can think of for why you've gone into all of this irrelevant Strange battle record talk) Im not talking about in the IG series lets get that straight. It happened after Adam acquired the gauntlet and LP has scans of the entire battle which he has shown to the forum previously. Strange and Adam had a 1 on 1 fight. Every attack Adam threw at Strange, Strange managed to counter without difficulty. Adam went through each of his gems in an attempt to take him down and each attack was countered.
With those two points in mind you cant say LT's superior to the IG for countering an IG attack. If that was the case then Strange would be beyond the IG as well which he is NOT. He just countered the attack. LT countering the attack as aforementioned only proves what we already knew, that hes more powerful than Strange (because he countered with a snap of his fingers) and that hes more powerful than any of the abstracts (because he dealt with the IG attack alot better than they did)
If it wasnt for the fact that Strange has countered Adams attacks then while you under no circimstances could say LT was superior you could at least say he was on par with the IG. With the Strange incident in mind you cant even conclusively say that, plus LT has no feats in any of his appearances which put him beyond the IG. None.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Yes, and Warlock still couldn't harm LT, nor was the IG ever able to reverse any of LT attack.
Just like Warlock wasnt able to harm Strange in their one on one encounter because he countered. Lt countered. Doesnt mean LT is more powerful than the IG. Not in the slightest. He doesnt have feats to back that idea up. Such feats he needs in light of the fact that Strange has countered multiple assaults from Adam in a 1on 1 encounter. LT never attacked Adam. Lets not make stuff up now. He stopped Adams attack. He countered it. Big difference mate.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Thing is Warlock was just beginning the attack. His attack was no different from Thanos'. But where was Strange when Thanos attacked? Where was Strange during the trial if you could counter Warlock? Strange is one of Eternity's champion. Where was he when Eternity was being attacked? He could've defended weak Eternity and Galactus?
What do you mean where was Strange? Stranges non appearance at a meeting of the higher powers is self explanatory and doesnt change the fact that Strange when prepped managed to cunter Adams assaults from all 6 of the I Gems. Thats the crux of the matter. Strange not being there doesnt discredit his feat. You need to get the silly notion out of your head that im saying Stranges feat makes him more or as powerful as the IG. It doesnt. He was prepared and he countered any and all attacks sent his way by a determined Adam who had to go through all of his gems. You cant say LT is more powerful than the IG based on a countered attack. Thats poor and far from conclusive.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Which ones again? Um, none.
Well actually quite a few my friend. Phoenix has many feats beyond anything LT has been shown to do and beyond anything the IG has done on panel in any of its appearances. The IG by all accounts gives a user total control of the forces which make up the fabric of a universe. Ita a universal power. Jean as the White Crown Phoenix killed the 616 reality as an after effect of telekinetically amputating its future. She then telekinetically reconstructed the 616 reality in the palm of her hand and healed it. Conclusively beyond any feat the IG has ever done and far beyond LT's feats.
Phoenix has projected a tower into every reality of the multiverse, thereby creating an energy matrix which flowed flowed through the multiverse. Shows multiversal range. No breaches in space required, just applied her power throughout existence.
The M'kraan crystal is a multiversal reset switch. The barriers which contained this power had failed and the multiverse was about to be wiped out. Phoenix knitted back together this stasis field and re-energised it. She saved all that is.
As per current continuity the Phoenix Consciousness manifests into the void as the Big Bangs which make up each universe of the multiverse. As the Big Bang any and all energy thats contained in a universe is derived from Phoenix. Hence the line "The sum and substance of all that live" "I am all that is" "the stars are my children, nothing that lives is not touched by me"
Either way on panel Phoenix beats the IG conclusively and trumps LT.
Again sorry mate. 🙁
Originally posted by Beyonder
No high feats? Who stopped Korvac again? Eternity? Sure as heck wasn't Phoenix.
He never stopped Korvac. He attampted to stop Korvac and failed miserably. He then gave up and fled saying he can do no more and telling the abstract entities if they have means with which to leave that reality he suggest they do so. LOL. Thats your high end feat?!! LMAO
I think i'll post it again:
Originally posted by Beyonder
- Eternity asked LT to stop Thanos
- Eternity asked LT to stop Warlock
- Warlock attacks court, LT stops it easily and restored ordered. Warlock is stunned.
- LT ruled against Warlock. LT shuts off the IG and allows Warlock to find new gem holders.
- Magus with the six Cosmic Cubes, still wanted the IG. Had to get LT for overturn his ruling.
- The IG has never ever affect LT.
Eternity asking LT to stop Thanos merely shows that hes more powerful than Eternity. Nothing else.
Warlock attacks court with a power surge. It wasnt full power or the abstracts would have died. Lt restored order but Strange has countered attacks from Adam before and made Adam go through all 6 gems in an attampt to beat him. Doesnt in the slightest mean Strange is as powerful as the I Gem and far from supports the ridiculous notion that hes more powerful just because he countered it. LT countered the IG gems power and then still went on to agree with Adam that he didnt know how his power would fare against the IG. Not wanting to find out he persuaded Adam to abide by his ruling by highlighting the destruction such a battle would cause. That doesnt state or suggest that LT is more powerful than the gems. In fact that infers otherwise my friend. Either you have no evidence to support such claims. Please understand that that scene in Infinity watch is open to interpretation, therefore it is not conclusive evidence. Nothing is stated or shown that conclusively shows LT to be superior or even equal to the IG's power. IF LT got up and gave Adam a beat down then you'd have your evidence. Without that you have that one scene which is open to interpretation and you have no feats on panel of LT doing anything beyond the IG therefore you cant make assumptions about his power in relation to it. Thats a fact.
The Magus thing just proves that the IG is more powerful than a number of c cubes. Come on Beyonder!! LOL.
You have no evidence to say LT conclusively wasnt threatened. Lets say for a minute that youre correct, he still didnt do anything on panel to show that hes on the same level as or beyond the IG. Thats another fact.
Originally posted by Beyonder
And who stopped these beings? LT. Did these beings/power over turn what LT did? Nope. Heck in Korvac's case, LT was doing the job while the deities relied on LT.
LT didnt stop those beings. He sealed them off from the rest of the multiverse so that he didnt have to deal with them. That doesnt show anything im afraid. The fact that he states that he dealt out his "ultimate punishment" on Korvac before fleeing after it flopped says it all really. Have you got anything on panel that shows LT dishing out more than a supernova? I believe that that methods eve stated in his bio. Until hes done something beyond that, dont make assumptions. Lt is definitely more powerful than the abstracts. Theres nothing to suggest and far from anything to conclusively show hes more powerful than the IG.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Nobodies changing anything around. LT is still above everyone else. And the deities turn to LT, no one else.
""As for LT, he surves a higher power. What other visible being is greater than LT?""
""Who said he was supreme?""
Nuff said for that point basically. If you didnt mean what you have lead me to believe from the above then watch your wording.
Originally posted by Beyonder
That's funny cause even in his early appearances, LT has been relied upon by cosmic deities alike.
Because of his role. Dont get role confused with power. When have you ever seen a power display or a statement that conclusively tells you that LT is beyond the IG? While i believe LT to be the top being in Marvel, he is not the top force/power.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Sealing off Korvac and the Star Brand is a low end feat? Last time I checked, Phoenix couldn't even beat Arishem the Celestial and Jean gets killed by Magneto. Those early appearances take nothing away from him. If you want, Dark Phoenix was manipulated into a fantasy world by a 2nd rate mutant in her earlier appearances.
Sealing off Korvac after first dishing out his "ultimate punishment" is a low end feat. Especially when Korvac had the combined power of about 6 cosmic beings which amounts to less power than the IG has.
Phoenix has never faced Arishem so i suggest you check again. Jean Grey however has faced the Celestials and with the last fragment of Phoenix power she had left in her (bear in mind this was the retcon period and the force was with Rachel) she shattered his hand.
Jean may have got killed by Magneto but what does that have to do anything? That can be explained away you knew she was going to die before that happened as she says she dies only to reborn and that she said to Logan she didnt know how long "they" (The Phoenix Consciousness of the The White Hot Room) would permit her to stay. We find out by the end of the issue. So not only is that explained on panel but Phoenix in addition to that has high end showings which LT does not have. Thats the crux of the matter.
After the M'kraan crystal incident its actually stated on panel many a time that Jean cut off her power to just powerful mutant level via psychic circuit breakers she erected in her mind. Therefore thats a bit of a moot point. Sorry B.
Youre missing the point. This isnt a game of my cosmic is better than yours. Not only is the scene from IW open to interpretation, but you then have no other scenes on panel to support your claims. In fact you have low end scenes which discredit your claims. With Phoenix she has some low showings but they have been explained away on panel plus she has high showings beyond anything the likes of IG and LT have performed on panel. Thats the important thing.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Furthermore, Dweller In Darkness was afraid LT might intervene in his plans. While observing LT in awe, it showed LT holding the brothers in his hand. Also refered to LT consulting his spectral hooded ally (Spectre) regarding the Brothers. Dweller was afraid of LT, not Phoenix. And Phoenix had to convince everyone not to be afraid just to beat Dweller in Darkness. And that squable was over one universe.
Yes the Dweller was concerned about LT potentially getting involved in his plans however as no refernce was made to how Dweller felt about Phoenix you cant read anything into it im afraid. Plus who was it who actually saved existence in the end anyway? She saved existence as stated in the handbook from "eternal damnation" (At the hand of the Dweller) thus allowing the creation cycle to continue unimpeded once the M'kraan crystal reset everything.
Im also sensing that your grasp on the current Phoenix interpretation isnt quite up to date. Allow me to direct you to a thread which will satisfy all queries:
Originally posted by Beyonder
And GS, you yourself have refered to this event to dismiss the Brother's being the supreme being of Marvel and DC.
Yeah? Whats your point? The source hasn’t changed anything.
Beyonder unless youre gonna post some scans of it stating LT is beyond the IG or a scene where he conclusively shows a power display beyond those of the IG or Phoenix then dont bother. Its been said all b4.
Just more of your opinion which is unsupported on panel. As such typing it up again would be a waste of time.
Just lookin out 4 u.
The Living Tribunal was able to Stop Warlock with IG because he tells Warlock I answer to somebody who's powers dwarfs his power.He had the strength to stop Warlock by order of his Master.The Living Tribunal is Judge over the Muti-Universe of Marvel which mean nobody can stop him from doing what he has to not the Phoenix. The only power that I ever seen actually beat LT was HOTU and he might not wanted to interfere in the Natural Order of things who knows. So when I say everybody I also mean the Beyonder at anytime would not been a problem
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]So can you show me where in any of the above you've managed to counter my point about Strange. Sorry mate it just hasnt happened.You made the assumption that LT was more powerful than the IG because he countered a power surge from Adam. Thats not good enough my friend. Why? Because
What assumptions? Warlock was pulling one gem after another. And Strange pull specific spells to counter. He was on the defense the whole time. This was like when Strange battled Death; he was on the defense the whole time and both Warlock and Death were pulling out what amounted to be trickery. 😆 Your comparing that to LT snapping his finger and restoring order to the court? LT wasn't even trying.
The whole time Strange was finding a way to convinced Warlock. That assult by Warlock amounted to nothing but Thanos against the heroes. During that fight, Thanos was sending people back in time, displaying people through space, and warping reality. He did the whole thing to impress Death. Against the deities, he went all out on them.
You've proven nothing GS. Don't even try to compare Strange's counter against what LT did. The whole fight Strange tried to convince Warlock; hence, he didn't try that sh!t against Thanos (depowered IG) because Thanos wouldn't have given a crap about the future.
a) The IG made Adam considerably more powerful than all the abstract entities therefore if the blast was full power he would have destroyed them. The fact that all of them survived just fine before LT's restored order tells you that it wasnt a full power blast. With that in mind restoring order doesnt not equate you to being as powerful as the IG. It just showed that LT was more powerful than the abstracts, so he dealt with the blast better than they ever could have hoped to.
Oh please. Warlock pulled one gem attacks on Strange, while Strange had to pull out every talismans and spells to counter fight Warlock. Warlock's attack was no different from Thanos' fight against the heroes.
b) Dr Strange has countered Adam with the IG. (Im guessing you havent seen this scene yet because that is the only explanation i can think of for why you've gone into all of this irrelevant Strange battle record talk) Im not talking about in the IG series lets get that straight. It happened after Adam acquired the gauntlet and LP has scans of the entire battle which he has shown to the forum previously. Strange and Adam had a 1 on 1 fight. Every attack Adam threw at Strange, Strange managed to counter without difficulty. Adam went through each of his gems in an attempt to take him down and each attack was countered.
Warlock sent Strange into the future to convince Strange of what happens "if his will was not done." He even sent Strange to the most distant of space. 🙄 Yeah, Warlock really got serious there. He then distorted reality against Strange. Yeah good move, since Strange has gone through attacks like that before. Even Warlock himself without the IG traveled through the realms of Order and Chaos.
With those two points in mind you cant say LT's superior to the IG for countering an IG attack. If that was the case then Strange would be beyond the IG as well which he is NOT. He just countered the attack. LT countering the attack as aforementioned only proves what we already knew, that hes more powerful than Strange (because he countered with a snap of his fingers) and that hes more powerful than any of the abstracts (because he dealt with the IG attack alot better than they did)If it wasnt for the fact that Strange has countered Adams attacks then while you under no circimstances could say LT was superior you could at least say he was on par with the IG. With the Strange incident in mind you cant even conclusively say that, plus LT has no feats in any of his appearances which put him beyond the IG. None.
And trying manipulate Strange using the Mind Gem? Lets see, Minddragon did the same and was owned by Strange. Death also manipulated Strange using illusions of the past. You call those attacks serious? Dormammu, Mephisto, Nightamre pull that stuff on Strange all the time. Even in his early days, Strange has fought off such an attack from Nightmare.
Strange got his butt whooped by Agamotto because he'd allow Galactus to use the Eye.
Strange was killed by Magus' Cosmic Cube - the same Cubes that Magus was not satisfied and therefore was attempting to get the IG working again.
Strange needed Galactus to pull himself together so he could ressurect Strange and the heralds.
Strange convinced Cyttorak to allow him and Nova to leave the Crimson Cosmos.
You think Strange could even compare to Eternity or Galactus? This is the same guy who called Galactus for help. During his fight with Shuma Gorath, he won only after beating and absorbing Shuma Gorath's lietenant to have enough power to challenge Gorath.
Dr Strange is powerful but compared to Galactus the only way he could even have a chance against Big G is getting aid from the Visanti. Not only that but In the The Warlock books Galactus and Dr Strange was on the same ship and it exploded into pieces and in seconds the pieces came together again and Dr Strange said I can't believe we survived that and Galactus said somebody has underestimated my power
Originally posted by GalacticStormWhat do you mean where was Strange? Stranges non appearance at a meeting of the higher powers is self explanatory and doesnt change the fact that Strange when prepped managed to cunter Adams assaults from all 6 of the I Gems. Thats the crux of the matter. Strange not being there doesnt discredit his feat. You need to get the silly notion out of your head that im saying Stranges feat makes him more or as powerful as the IG. It doesnt. He was prepared and he countered any and all attacks sent his way by a determined Adam who had to go through all of his gems. You cant say LT is more powerful than the IG based on a countered attack. Thats poor and far from conclusive.
Dude, you blab on as if Strange could even compare to Galactus much less LT. Strange's fight and counters we're even in the same league. Please stop b.s.ing.
Well actually quite a few my friend. Phoenix has many feats beyond anything LT has been shown to do and beyond anything the IG has done on panel in any of its appearances. The IG by all accounts gives a user total control of the forces which make up the fabric of a universe. Ita a universal power. Jean as the White Crown Phoenix killed the 616 reality as an after effect of telekinetically amputating its future. She then telekinetically reconstructed the 616 reality in the palm of her hand and healed it. Conclusively beyond any feat the IG has ever done and far beyond LT's feats.
Um, yeah well Eternity is 616. Warlock stomped Eternity, Galactus, Chaos, Order, etc. all at once. Thanos froze them all with a gesture. They were also turned to stone with a thought.
Phoenix has projected a tower into every reality of the multiverse, thereby creating an energy matrix which flowed flowed through the multiverse. Shows multiversal range. No breaches in space required, just applied her power throughout existence.
Yeah right, every event shows otherwise. LT is at the top.
The M'kraan crystal is a multiversal reset switch. The barriers which contained this power had failed and the multiverse was about to be wiped out. Phoenix knitted back together this stasis field and re-energised it. She saved all that is.As per current continuity the Phoenix Consciousness manifests into the void as the Big Bangs which make up each universe of the multiverse. As the Big Bang any and all energy thats contained in a universe is derived from Phoenix. Hence the line "The sum and substance of all that live" "I am all that is" "the stars are my children, nothing that lives is not touched by me"
That's funny because many beings say this and that about being the universe and everything within it. But when it comes down to it, LT is at the top and referred to by cosmics alike.
Either way on panel Phoenix beats the IG conclusively and trumps LT.Again sorry mate. 🙁
That's funny cause you haven't proven anything.
He never stopped Korvac. He attampted to stop Korvac and failed miserably. He then gave up and fled saying he can do no more and telling the abstract entities if they have means with which to leave that reality he suggest they do so. LOL. Thats your high end feat?!! LMAOI think i'll post it again:
No it's not highend. It's a low end that amounted to Korvac losing and not being able to do anything about it. Furthermore, it still showed the deities asking LT for help.
Low end, Phoenix got owned by Magneto and couldn't even do a thing to Arishem.
Originally posted by Mider
hmmm Spectre has killed gods, a being who has defeated the anti-monitor, lords of chaos and order that are above skyfathers 700 magicians at once the IG couldnt even hurt one magician which was Dr Strange and just because he is who he is doesnt mean that other DCU mages couldnt do other feats that are as good or even better then his as in black alice who has stolen the powers of other mages and is just a kid and zatanna also a very powerful mage and Dr Fate of course who is Strange's equal, Swampthing who has defeated the or battled the word all these beings couldnt defeat the anti-monitor and yet Spectre defeated a god that did so and your saying LT can stand up to this? Why do you defend the LT he has shown no such feats ive already told you how his feats have failed against the likes of Korvac you dont seem to believe me get the comic if you dont believe me read it for yourself and see how he was a coward and ran off.
Killing Gods was what Desak and Demogorge did. Destroyer was meant to take down the Celestials (enchanted by 23 skyfathers) and it couldn't even take down one.
Funny how your comparing skyfathers, Lords of Order, and such against the IG. Warlock was doing parlor tricks on Strange that beings below Galactus can do.
Spectre didn't beat Anti-Monitor. DS' machine and Superman did.
The Word was never beaten by Swamp Thing mider. Tefe spoke almost the same sound as The Voice to try to banish him into nonexistence. He was stopped by Tefe but not destroyed. I would even say Lucifer and Michael and LT could have been beaten by Tefe. the Word has since been seen in Hal/Spectre comics, though it doesn't look the same like in Swamp Thing it could be Hal was perceiving The Word to look like that, he still had his red Robe, and he was sitting on a thrown.
Spectre did stop the Anti-Monitor, Superman didn't stop AM, he killed him when he was weak and dieing already. the reason DS got involved was because AM was going to threaten him after destroying Superman and Earth.
Originally posted by Mider
[B]his as in black alice who has stolen the powers of other mages and is just a kid and zatanna also a very powerful mage and Dr Fate of course who is Strange's equal, Swampthing who has defeated the or battled the word all these beings couldnt defeat the anti-monitor and yet Spectre defeated a god that did so and your saying LT can stand up to this?
Your just rambling. Strange hid from Thanos and took orders from a non-IG Warlock. The IG stomped Eternity, Death, Galactus, Chaos, and Order all at once. Don't even compare mages against Eternity and Galactus. Warlock's assault on Strange was no more than one gem at a time, attacks that Thanos depowered IG did on the heroes.
Strange didn't even fight Odin during Blood and Thunder. Was owned in a gesture by Agamotto and needed Galactus to save his butt. He talked Cyttorak into letting him go.
Demogorge ate up most of the hell-lords from every pantheon with ease, yet it's Celestial level and below.
Why do you defend the LT he has shown no such feats ive already told you how his feats have failed against the likes of Korvac you dont seem to believe me get the comic if you dont believe me read it for yourself and see how he was a coward and ran off.
Failed? All the deities turned to LT. LT sealed Korvac off. Did Korvac escape? Korvac didn't beat LT.
Originally posted by Beyonder
What assumptions? Warlock was pulling one gem after another. And Strange pull specific spells to counter. He was on the defense the whole time. This was like when Strange battled Death; he was on the defense the whole time and both Warlock and Death were pulling out what amounted to be trickery. 😆 Your comparing that to LT snapping his finger and restoring order to the court? LT wasn't even trying.The whole time Strange was finding a way to convinced Warlock. That assult by Warlock amounted to nothing but Thanos against the heroes. During that fight, Thanos was sending people back in time, displaying people through space, and warping reality. He did the whole thing to impress Death. Against the deities, he went all out on them.
You've proven nothing GS. Don't even try to compare Strange's counter against what LT did. The whole fight Strange tried to convince Warlock; hence, he didn't try that sh!t against Thanos (depowered IG) because Thanos wouldn't have given a crap about the future.
Oh please. Warlock pulled one gem attacks on Strange, while Strange had to pull out every talismans and spells to counter fight Warlock. Warlock's attack was no different from Thanos' fight against the heroes.
Warlock sent Strange into the future to convince Strange of what happens "if his will was not done." He even sent Strange to the most distant of space. 🙄 Yeah, Warlock really got serious there. He then distorted reality against Strange. Yeah good move, since Strange has gone through attacks like that before. Even Warlock himself without the IG traveled through the realms of Order and Chaos.
And trying manipulate Strange using the Mind Gem? Lets see, Minddragon did the same and was owned by Strange. Death also manipulated Strange using illusions of the past. You call those attacks serious? Dormammu, Mephisto, Nightamre pull that stuff on Strange all the time. Even in his early days, Strange has fought off such an attack from Nightmare.
Strange got his butt whooped by Agamotto because he'd allow Galactus to use the Eye.
Strange was killed by Magus' Cosmic Cube - the same Cubes that Magus was not satisfied and therefore was attempting to get the IG working again.
Strange needed Galactus to pull himself together so he could ressurect Strange and the heralds.
Strange convinced Cyttorak to allow him and Nova to leave the Crimson Cosmos.You think Strange could even compare to Eternity or Galactus? This is the same guy who called Galactus for help. During his fight with Shuma Gorath, he won only after beating and absorbing Shuma Gorath's lietenant to have enough power to challenge Gorath.
Beyonder. Your understanding is abominable. Just how old are you?
All of the above is largely irrelevant.
The point of bringing Strange into it in the first place is not to equate him on the hierarchy to LT, IG or any of the other cosmics, because we all know that isnt the case.
Strange was mentioned because he despite his relatively low standing in the rankings was able to counter the power of the IG. The fact that he was on the defence all the time is irrelevant. This isnt a Strange versus thread. Im not trying to infer anything about Strange other than the fact that he countered the IG. Dont you understand that?
The crux of the matter is that he countered an assault from the IG and LT countered an assault from the IG. Strange doing so doesnt change his position on the hierarchy it certainly doesnt equate him to the IG in power as it was just a counter. Same with LT. LT countered Adams assault. He did it with a snap of the fingers. He did it easier than Strange did, but thats to be expected because hes more powerful as everyone knows.
However all LT did was counter. He never matched Adam blast for blast, never fought him to a standstill and certainly never beat him. Therefore you have no evidence whatsoever to say LT's superior to the IG.
Picking at Stranges battle record is futile because youre missing the point. This isnt really about Strange. Its about the fact that LT only countered Adam. Thats all. You positively cannot say hes more powerful based on a counter.
Me highlighting the fact that Strange has countered Adam as well isnt an attempt to hype Strange up. Im just bringing attention to the fact that lower beings to have countered the power of the IG. As theyre lower you wouldnt expect them to counter as easily as LT did but at the end of the day on both occassions it was still just a counter.
As LT isnt the only one to do so it cant be seen as a feat only achievable by someone who is on par with or beyond the power of IG cos Strange isnt either and at the end of the day it was still only a counter.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Dude, you blab on as if Strange could even compare to Galactus much less LT. Strange's fight and counters we're even in the same league. Please stop b.s.ing.
And youre once again missing the point. Thats not what im doing at all. Strange isnt as powerful as LT so of course his counters arent going to be in the same league. But thats not the point. The point is that in both situations it was still just a counter. You cant read from a defensive manoeuvre that LT is more powerful than the IG. Thats not stated or shown anywhere in that title and nowhere else in the history of Marvel has LT performed a feat which supports your OPINION that he is more powerful than the IG.
Youre presenting your interpretation on the scene as fact. You cant do that Bey. Its a scene open to interpretation as you've seen on this thread therefore it is not conclusive proof. Dont treat it as such.
Beyond Infinity Watch you have no impressive power displays whatsoever. Not a thing.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Um, yeah well Eternity is 616. Warlock stomped Eternity, Galactus, Chaos, Order, etc. all at once. Thanos froze them all with a gesture. They were also turned to stone with a thought.
Sometimes i really do wonder Bey. Eternity is the embodiment of 616. That Mbody we see is a representation of the sentience of the universe not the universe in its totality. When attacked by the IG in the same title Eternity says "Were this not merely a visualisation of my totality the gauntlets effect would have been non-existent"
The Mbody is not 616 in its totality. The things Warlock and Thanos did to the M-body (please note that they were all things done within reality as well) are laughable compared to accidentally killing the actual 616 universe and then casually reconstructing it in the palm of your hand atom by atom telekinetically. Phoenix dealt with the ACTUAL 616 universe, not its embodiment, its representation WITHIN reality. Thats a feat on another level. The IG or LT have yet to match.
The IG makes you master of that little reality the White Crown Phoenix has in her hand right there, the one she has total control over down to the sub atomic and all from the comfort of the white hot room. 🙂
Originally posted by Beyonder
Yeah right, every event shows otherwise. LT is at the top.
Prove it. No opinion. Just show me scans where LT shows something more impressive than the IG or Phoenix. LTs top being not the top power/force. X-men Forever showed as a power one who wields the Phoenix can make themselves supreme in reality. Its all actually stated and its shown by Stranger and later confirmed by Eternity as the truth. LT has yet to beat the IG for feats.
Originally posted by Beyonder
That's funny because many beings say this and that about being the universe and everything within it. But when it comes down to it, LT is at the top and referred to by cosmics alike.
All that matters is current continuity im afraid. Latest Phoenix bio says each Phoenix manifestation is the life force of the universe the power from which the universe derives from. Thats the current state of affairs and thats what ive been telling you for over 7 months now. The bios just made it concrete. Referring to any other beings from early 90's comics is more futile now than ever. Sorry mate.
Originally posted by Beyonder
That's funny cause you haven't proven anything.
Incredibly ironic LOL. You have just your interpretation of a few scenes from Infinity Watch to go on. However your OPINION on the matter isnt supported anywhere else in comics. While his role is incredibly important he's never ever had an impressive power feat and there have been powers stated and even shown on panel to place you above him (i.e Phoenix and HOTU). Not my fault you read to much into his role.
When you have on panel evidence to back up your claims then you'll get somewhere. Until then its mere fantasy.
Originally posted by Beyonder
No it's not highend. It's a low end that amounted to Korvac losing and not being able to do anything about it. Furthermore, it still showed the deities asking LT for help.
LT's ultimate punishment as he stated didnt fase Korvac with less assembled power than the IG so how can you rate him so high if thats all hes been shown to be able to output? Your arguments just opinion theres little fact to it mate.
The deities ask him for help because his role is guardian of the multiverse. Again i say dont mix up role with power. When the entities needed him most he tried his best and his best failed them. He fled and suggested they do the same.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Low end, Phoenix got owned by Magneto and couldn't even do a thing to Arishem.
This is irrelevant because its a low end feat thats actually explained away on panel. Its not down to a lack of power her work as Phoenix just didnt necessitate her survival in 616 so she died and didnt resurrect herself until she was needed in the Here Comes Tomorrow timeline. All explained away on panel and on top of that she has high end feats which put LT's and the IGs to shame.
Lt has low level showings - He caused a supernova as his ultimate punishment (Damn Dark Phoenix burped one up as she snacked on a star LOL) with no explanation on panel at the time or ever since.
Its really not looking good my friend 🙁
"""Failed? All the deities turned to LT. LT sealed Korvac off. Did Korvac escape? Korvac didn't beat LT.""""
The crux of the matter is that LT dished out his "ultimate punishment" and Korvac shrugged it off. He siad there was nothing else he could do, there was nothing within his power to defeat Korvac who had less assembled power than the IG. The abstracts looked to LT for help there to but thats just because of his role as guardian of the multiverse. However he failed them. He told them he could do no more and he resorted to sealing off Korvac as he had no hope of defeating him. By his own words he didnt have the power to.
Unlike Phoenixes low showings this hasnt been explained away. Sorry mate.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And youre once again missing the point. Thats not what im doing at all. Strange isnt as powerful as LT so of course his counters arent going to be in the same league. But thats not the point. The point is that in both situations it was still just a counter. You cant read from a defensive manoeuvre that LT is more powerful than the IG. Thats not stated or shown anywhere in that title and nowhere else in the history of Marvel has LT performed a feat which supports your OPINION that he is more powerful than the IG.Youre presenting your interpretation on the scene as fact. You cant do that Bey. Its a scene open to interpretation as you've seen on this thread therefore it is not conclusive proof. Dont treat it as such.
Beyond Infinity Watch you have no impressive power displays whatsoever. Not a thing.
Sometimes i really do wonder Bey. Eternity is the embodiment of 616. That Mbody we see is a representation of the sentience of the universe not the universe in its totality. When attacked by the IG in the same title Eternity says "Were this not merely a visualisation of my totality the gauntlets effect would have been non-existent"
The Mbody is not 616 in its totality. The things Warlock and Thanos did to the M-body (please note that they were all things done within reality as well) are laughable compared to accidentally killing the actual 616 universe and then casually reconstructing it in the palm of your hand atom by atom telekinetically. Phoenix dealt with the ACTUAL 616 universe, not its embodiment, its representation WITHIN reality. Thats a feat on another level. The IG or LT have yet to match.
The IG makes you master of that little reality the White Crown Phoenix has in her hand right there, the one she has total control over down to the sub atomic and all from the comfort of the white hot room. 🙂
Prove it. No opinion. Just show me scans where LT shows something more impressive than the IG or Phoenix. LTs top being not the top power/force. X-men Forever showed as a power one who wields the Phoenix can make themselves supreme in reality. Its all actually stated and its shown by Stranger and later confirmed by Eternity as the truth. LT has yet to beat the IG for feats.
All that matters is current continuity im afraid. Latest Phoenix bio says each Phoenix manifestation is the life force of the universe the power from which the universe derives from. Thats the current state of affairs and thats what ive been telling you for over 7 months now. The bios just made it concrete. Referring to any other beings from early 90's comics is more futile now than ever. Sorry mate.
Incredibly ironic LOL. You have just your interpretation of a few scenes from Infinity Watch to go on. However your OPINION on the matter isnt supported anywhere else in comics. While his role is incredibly important he's never ever had an impressive power feat and there have been powers stated and even shown on panel to place you above him (i.e Phoenix and HOTU). Not my fault you read to much into his role.
When you have on panel evidence to back up your claims then you'll get somewhere. Until then its mere fantasy.
LT's ultimate punishment as he stated didnt fase Korvac with less assembled power than the IG so how can you rate him so high if thats all hes been shown to be able to output? Your arguments just opinion theres little fact to it mate.
The deities ask him for help because his role is guardian of the multiverse. Again i say dont mix up role with power. When the entities needed him most he tried his best and his best failed them. He fled and suggested they do the same.
This is irrelevant because its a low end feat thats actually explained away on panel. Its not down to a lack of power her work as Phoenix just didnt necessitate her survival in 616 so she died and didnt resurrect herself until she was needed in the Here Comes Tomorrow timeline. All explained away on panel and on top of that she has high end feats which put LT's and the IGs to shame.
Lt has low level showings - He caused a supernova as his ultimate punishment (Damn Dark Phoenix burped one up as she snacked on a star LOL) with no explanation on panel at the time or ever since.
Its really not looking good my friend 🙁
Of course the Spectre with permission beats Phoenix.
