Silver surfer vs Justice leaugue

Huh? Still a bunch of people with Surfer here, eh? Is the JLA getting a GL in this fight? I know Surfer's a beast but everyone's assuming a lot.

Supes/WW/Aquaman/etc. wrestle him to the ground. Flash ties WW's lasso around him a few thousand times. Diana holds him while Flash helps her dodge his blasts, and the rest of the crew beats down on Surfer.

Add that to trying to fend off a telepathic barrage and energy from Supes/MM/GL etc. and he's got a ton to think about. Even if he "intagible's" out of the lasso, hitting anyone with Flash on the loose, or doing much damage without taking a bunch himself would be hard.

I realize he could take out any one or two of these people. And he's clearly the most powerful in the fight (except perhaps for a super-pissed and/or inspired GL), but I'm surprised everyone's willing to concede the majority to him.

And yeah, Surfer's fast. But when has he shown in-fight speed that would prove he won't get hit by any of the JLA's herald-levelers, many of whom have impressive speed feats? I just can't see him taking this any number of times.

{edit} I see I'm not the first to think of the lasso technique...didn't want to steal anyone's thunder.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's (as usual, k 😉 ) a fair assessment. when i debated this thread earlier, i mentioned flash stealing his speed as well. again, like t-vo, i'm not too sure of its viability either. if flash could do that (current flash obviously not!) then ss is screwed. flash at full would nullify ss's second biggest asset -- speed (first being energy and attacking at a distance).

ss 6/10 against the team presented on pg 1 is a fair number, i think. unless flash can steal his speed. there is also a chance that flash could give speed as you said. if he could do that, ss would be royally f'd. once they worked together to get the lasso on him, he'd be done.

Thanks 🙂. As I said the Surfer is winning this fight only by the thinnest margins in my mind and there are definitely ways by which I could see the JLA winning. However, if the Surfer fights smart by minimizing the JLA's number advantage by retreating in the sky and thus taking all of the non-flyers out of the fight then I can see him beating the team in a piecemeal fashion. Letting them attack en masse is a sure way for the Surfer to get overwhelmed and lose this fight.

As for the Flash stealing the Surfer's speed, while it could certainly be possible it is extremely difficult to quantify in a debate as the two characters exist in different universes and the question has never been offically addressed tp my knowledge. If it did work (or the JLA got any additional advantage) then it would be enough, in my mind, to give the JLA a majority.

***Note my comments have been regarding the team posted on page one (ie the one without a GL). Was a Green Lantern ever added to the JLA roster? 😕

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Huh? Still a bunch of people with Surfer here, eh? Is the JLA getting a GL in this fight? I know Surfer's a beast but everyone's assuming a lot.

Supes/WW/Aquaman/etc. wrestle him to the ground. Flash ties WW's lasso around him a few thousand times. Diana holds him while Flash helps her dodge his blasts, and the rest of the crew beats down on Surfer.

Add that to trying to fend off a telepathic barrage and energy from Supes/MM/GL etc. and he's got a ton to think about. Even if he "intagible's" out of the lasso, hitting anyone with Flash on the loose, or doing much damage without taking a bunch himself would be hard.

I realize he could take out any one or two of these people. And he's clearly the most powerful in the fight (except perhaps for a super-pissed and/or inspired GL), but I'm surprised everyone's willing to concede the majority to him.

And yeah, Surfer's fast. But when has he shown in-fight speed that would prove he won't get hit by any of the JLA's herald-levelers, many of whom have impressive speed feats? I just can't see him taking this any number of times.

{edit} I see I'm not the first to think of the lasso technique...didn't want to steal anyone's thunder.

yep. his combat speed has always been in doubt. but uni, i'd say supes wins the willpower battle, imo. supes will has been said to have the greatest will in the universe. 😉

Originally posted by TheKahn
Thanks 🙂. As I said the Surfer is winning this fight only by the thinnest margins in my mind and there are definitely ways by which I could see the JLA winning. However, if the Surfer fights smart by minimizing the JLA's number advantage by retreating in the sky and thus taking all of the non-flyers out of the fight then I can see him beating the team in a piecemeal fashion. Letting them attack en masse is a sure way for the Surfer to get overwhelmed and lose this fight.

As for the Flash stealing the Surfer's speed, while it could certainly be possible it is extremely difficult to quantify in a debate as the two characters exist in different universes and the question has never been offically addressed tp my knowledge. If it did work (or the JLA got any additional advantage) then it would be enough, in my mind, to give the JLA a majority.

***Note my comments have been regarding the team posted on page one (ie the one without a GL). Was a Green Lantern ever added to the JLA roster? 😕

officially? i don't know. i was just resonding to a crazy comment about the ss being able to beat the gl corps. like i said though, i'm pretty sure the guy was just kidding. 😄

I can see why you might lean towards superman. But imo, just because Marvel doesn't decide to make one hero the bestest, most goodest doesn't take anything away from his willpower. So saying, I'd leave T-vo out the fight. But then again, that was his only crutch, wasn't it? Surfer resisted the mindgem, so Superman's Superwill isn't a surewin in any case.
But that can be argued against. Didn't Hals ring say that Superman possessed a lesser will??

This is silly
Supes alone would win, since SS doesn't know the makeup of kryptonite (A name tells you nothing) and cosmic awareness only tells you where is the threat. It has been shown that SS is very resistant to energy projection but is soft as paper to concussive force. He has been Koed multiple times very quickly after a hit or two to a decent amount of concussive force. Neither can SS absorb superman's solar energy. Prove it!
A better thread would have been SS vs. Superman.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I can see why you might lean towards superman. But imo, just because Marvel doesn't decide to make one hero the bestest, most goodest doesn't take anything away from his willpower. So saying, I'd leave T-vo out the fight. But then again, that was his only crutch, wasn't it? Surfer resisted the mindgem, so Superman's Superwill isn't a surewin in any case.
But that can be argued against. Didn't Hals ring say that Superman possessed a lesser will??

really? i hadn't heard of that if it's true. i'll agree it's an arguable point anyway, though i'm not sure it really is dependent on the willpower of the person supes is attacking. as i said, avalon knows more than i do, and supes has taken out some high level dudes with it. he'll likely chime in later with an opinion or thought or 10. 😉

oh, and always nice debating/discussing things with someone who doesn't scream fanboy every other word. 🙂

Originally posted by h1a8
This is silly
Supes alone would win, since SS doesn't know the makeup of kryptonite (A name tells you nothing) and cosmic awareness only tells you where is the threat. It has been shown that SS is very resistant to energy projection but is soft as paper to concussive force. He has been Koed multiple times very quickly after a hit or two to a decent amount of concussive force. Neither can SS absorb superman's solar energy. Prove it!
A better thread would have been SS vs. Superman.

people always seem to assume ss's awareness would let him know about the weaknesses and how to use them. supes fans have stopped debating that, i think, though i suppose it is a viable argument. if ss has no knowledge of supes weaknesses, it is a much different fight indeed . . . 😈

Originally posted by h1a8
This is silly
Supes alone would win, since SS doesn't know the makeup of kryptonite (A name tells you nothing) and cosmic awareness only tells you where is the threat. It has been shown that SS is very resistant to energy projection but is soft as paper to concussive force. He has been Koed multiple times very quickly after a hit or two to a decent amount of concussive force. Neither can SS absorb superman's solar energy. Prove it!
A better thread would have been SS vs. Superman.

1) that thread does already exists

and

2) it can be argued that the Surfer's cosmic awareness would tell him the frequency of radiation (ie the one that kryptonite puts out) that would damage Superman... 😖hifty:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer5-18a.jpg

and here is him doing something similar to the Hulk
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1997_125_15.jpg

HIA18.......Lets say Superman had no weakness to knite. Why couldn't Surfer simply blast Superman into submission?? Is that not viable as well??

And Leo, likewise. Debates are best done, when points and thinking is done.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And Leo, likewise. Debates are best done, when points and thinking is done.

✅

surfer dude cant take on JLA himself. i think he would need some back up

Supes isnt his only problem they need to work fast to subdie his punk butt, GL has to go at him first since there equally powerful, if he is strong enough he might even win by himself but if not then the rest of the team can take him down with stratigy

I look at it this way. The league that was posted here would beat SS 8/10. SS only chance would be to take them on 1 and 1 and win, which I dont see happening. There are far too many possibilities and abilities for the league to just think they would stand there and let SS pull anything.

The 2 wins are for sheer luck, and a prep type victory.

I'm assuming that since people are using uber Surfer, they are using the uber version of the league.

Im gonna revise everything I said before, what it comes down to is this: Depends on the writer, the editor and the needs of the plot.

I actually started digging thru comics looking for something else and what should I find? The death of Superman. Which was crap. But it reminded me of Doomsday slapping Guy Gardner uside the head and putting him out of the fight.

Now, that was stupid. My opinions of both Guy Gardner and Dan Jurgens are poor at best. Guy gets a bad rap, but Jurgens deserves my contempt. Anyway, (rant rant rant) in that crap story, the most powerful weapon in the universe etc etc is nullified by a pimpslap to service the plot. It was stupid, sure, but that is what happened. And it happens all the time, I wont bash anymore writers as to not hurt feelings, but it all boils down to the different writers and the different variations of the characters and how they are portrayed.
I have seen Captain America act like a showboat, I have seen him modest. I have seen Spidey throw cars, and I have seen him unable to lift far lighter loads. It really depends on the plot, the writer etc.

But if you can neutralize a GL with ''neural chaff''.....?

What would actually happen is, there would be a series of battles, with the tide turning again and again until they teamed up on the bad guy.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I look at it this way. The league that was posted here would beat SS 8/10. SS only chance would be to take them on 1 and 1 and win, which I dont see happening. There are far too many possibilities and abilities for the league to just think they would stand there and let SS pull anything.

The 2 wins are for sheer luck, and a prep type victory.

I'm assuming that since people are using uber Surfer, they are using the uber version of the league.

yeah, i could see that as well. really depends on which versions. speed stealing/granting flash, t-vo using supes, would definitely beat ss. his speed is his biggest advantage and that's what would let him stay away from a gang beating imo, but if they could get to him, h'd be pretty much screwed. it amounts to flash supes, ww and mm v ss. he might be able to avoid them and blast from a distance, but if they catch him he is finished. i really can't say. i keep flipping around in this debate. 🙁

Avy, can you break down what T-vo really is??
Can someone with greater willpower, win and use T-vo to his advantage??
How does it work??

Originally posted by UniOmni
Avy, can you break down what T-vo really is??
Can someone with greater willpower, win and use T-vo to his advantage??
How does it work??

Superman's willpower can't be toppled, really.
His Willpower helps shape the multiverse.

I was only joking when i was saying that Superman really was Yahweh.
I thought Lucifer was the one who shaped the DCU on willpower alone??

And like i said before, just because Superman may have the numero uno mortal will doesn't mean squat in a neutral universe. Silver Surfer has his plethora of willpower feats as well.

Or are you agreeing that T-vo seems to be blatantly made to grant superman a victory??

Originally posted by UniOmni
I was only joking when i was saying that Superman really was Yahweh.
I thought Lucifer was the one who shaped the DCU on willpower alone??

And like i said before, just because Superman may have the numero uno mortal will doesn't mean squat in a neutral universe. Silver Surfer has his plethora of willpower feats as well.

Or are you agreeing that T-vo seems to be blatantly made to grant superman a victory??

After Our Worlds at War, he was charged before the Quintessence by The Linear Men, talking about how he influences reality. His mere passing changes history. He's stood in the path of fundamental forces of reality, like aspects of Death, and made them NOT perform their natural duty. They said he was ultimately too powerful and influencial, and that he should not be allowed to exist. Spectre was acting as his lawyer. lol.