11. Ragnos already knew the new things implemented by Bane's order? The mysticism of Plageuis? The Sith lords preceeding Ragnos? Who the hell says any of those 'instakills' could work whatsoever? If they could, Ragnos would've used them on Simus and Naga on Ludo. And no, Sidious's force storm was HARDLY his strongest ability, I'd wager that as sucking a planet of life and energy. And the SKywalkers PLUS Anakin Solo's already raw force power were against him. Sidious has the power and knowledge necessary to take Ragnos on and isn't stupid to engage Ragnos in a saber duel. I'd say he could win by tearing the place to pieces with the Force or draining Ragnos, or pinching off a nerve in his brain.
Please, how would he tear the place to pieces and somehow survive? He's not exactly going to start the fight on the Deathstar in orbit over Ragnos' planet. Stop changing parameters for the fight.
Draining Ragnos? Where do you think he got that ability?
And do I need to remind you that in the JK:A game, Tavion with Ragnos had the most powerful (most damage dealt) attack in the game, and it was a megadrain? Don't talk about draining. By that logic, Ragnos could just drain it back. And do you forget that Tavion was draining the force power of entire planets with guess what? Ragnos' scepter!
Pinch off a nerve in his brain? Where does he indicate he can do this? Where does he do this to a powerful force user? Why didn't he do it to Luke or Leia?
Ragnos is "the most powerful of the most powerful" individual among the entire "godlike" Sith. This is the word of the omniscient narrator, and there is no evidence to suggest anything that diminishes that notion.
In the end, you have nothing but your own desire for Sidious to win. That's called bias and fanboyism.
You lose, and Quod Erot Demonstratum.
Originally posted by Illustrious
Please, how would he tear the place to pieces and somehow survive? He's not exactly going to start the fight on the Deathstar in orbit over Ragnos' planet. Stop changing parameters for the fight.Draining Ragnos? Where do you think he got that ability?
And do I need to remind you that in the JK:A game, Tavion with Ragnos had [b]the most powerful
(most damage dealt) attack in the game, and it was a megadrain? Don't talk about draining. By that logic, Ragnos could just drain it back. And do you forget that Tavion was draining the force power of entire planets with guess what? Ragnos' scepter!Pinch off a nerve in his brain? Where does he indicate he can do this? Where does he do this to a powerful force user? Why didn't he do it to Luke or Leia?
Ragnos is "the most powerful of the most powerful" individual among the entire "godlike" Sith. This is the word of the omniscient narrator, and there is no evidence to suggest anything that diminishes that notion.
In the end, you have nothing but your own desire for Sidious to win. That's called bias and fanboyism.
You lose, and Quod Erot Demonstratum. [/B]
Sidious was draining the enrgy of worlds as well, point? And yes, the final boss had the most powerful attack in the game....gameplay measures the idea of strength now?
Brakiss himself was shown to be manipulating solar flares in 'Lightsabers', and mentions to Zekk some of Palpatine's abilities.
And the Ancient Sith are wiped out on three planets and need to be tricked into going into war, that takes their godliness down a peg. We know Sidious learned from Ragnos and his ilk, learned their quote unquote 'Darkest Secrets', found their ancient holocrons...
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Janus, would you please stop interjecting random statements like that in the MIDDLE of a debate?
It's something of a news update.
2. Memit had Odann and Ooroo by him as well. And Memit was an advisor, not a war leader. By the by, found proof on another issue: It specifically says a few knights are all that leads the fight on Coruscant against Naga.
3. Like hell, the Imperial Navy was an incredible force.
Erm, that was his point.
4. The Ancient Sith weren't exactly affecting anything physically without hosts and a bevy of Sith energy around. And who says Sidious actually NEEDED a Clone Body?
The fact that he went through all the trouble of making so many, and then got WTFpwned by Han Solo when they were all destroyed? The fact that he needed to crawl back to the spirits of the Ancients for guidance?
5. At the very end, when Kun tries to manipulate/turn them...he fails rather miserably. And considering it took a group of PADAWANS to trap him...
As Nai said, I didn't see anyone trapping anyone else. . .
6. Possibly had the power? Kun didn't really show himself as anything remotely resembling a powerhouse until the amulet and the amulet did the work, NOT Kun
Again; it obviously takes a powerful Force user to operate the amulet, as Kun's raw anger was able to "double it's power". Technically, again, he is strengthening it.
7. To counter the idea that Ragnos's return was before DE?
I don't think JA times were before DE, Lightsnake.
10. When did he 'rip massive walls to pieces' And considering Odan was near dead anyways....the man was over a thousand and NOT exactly skilled in offensive means. There's no proof it could have or would have worked on Sylvar. Otherwise, he could simply have used it on Vodo, or on Ulic, or on Ood. And Ood didn't 'fight', he sat back, failed to help and watched Ooroo die. He also found the holocron aboard an empty Sith ship. And Arca was near the edge of unconciousness thanks to being totally caught off guard by Nadd AND Ommin. And Ommin was dead by the time Nadd took his soul.
I don't know who you're referring to here, but there are two who come to mind.
Ragnos's sceptre, in Tavion's hands, no less, was able to bring down an entire chamber on Vjun, and Exar ripped apart a temple.
11. Ragnos already knew the new things implemented by Bane's order? The mysticism of Plageuis? The Sith lords preceeding Ragnos? Who the hell says any of those 'instakills' could work whatsoever? If they could, Ragnos would've used them on Simus and Naga on Ludo. And no, Sidious's force storm was HARDLY his strongest ability, I'd wager that as sucking a planet of life and energy. And the SKywalkers PLUS Anakin Solo's already raw force power were against him. Sidious has the power and knowledge necessary to take Ragnos on and isn't stupid to engage Ragnos in a saber duel. I'd say he could win by tearing the place to pieces with the Force or draining Ragnos, or pinching off a nerve in his brain.
Bane's Order? The Rule of Two? If anything, that shows weakness. The Sith of that time weren't able to govern themselves as massive organization, even with a Council. Ragnos, on the other hand, sominated an empire.
Plagueis's mysticism? You mean his manipulation of midichlorians? According to the databank, Plagueis manipulated midichlorians like an 'ancient Sith alchemist'. I'll find you the exact line.
The instakills may not be as effective against a reigning Dark Lord who'd defended himself against attempts at the throne for do many decades, or against someone of similar or greater power.
Tearing the place to pieces? If Ragnos hadn't already torn it apart with his scepter, Sidious's kill himself.
Drain? As IKC said, Tavion was able to drain the Force energy from entire planets with his scepter. The power it would be able to unleash in his hands would be unfathomable.
Pinch off a nerve in his brain? Lol!
This is ridiculous, Lightsnake.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
It's something of a news update.Scan?
Erm, that was his point.
The fact that he went through all the trouble of making so many, and then got WTFpwned by Han Solo when they were all destroyed? The fact that he needed to crawl back to the spirits of the Ancients for guidance?
As Nai said, I didn't see anyone trapping anyone else. . .
Again; it obviously takes a powerful Force user to operate the amulet, as Kun's raw anger was able to "double it's power". Technically, again, he is strengthening it.
I don't think JA times were before DE, Lightsnake.
I don't know who you're referring to here, but there are two who come to mind.
Ragnos's sceptre, in Tavion's hands, no less, was able to bring down an entire chamber on Vjun, and Exar ripped apart a temple.
Bane's Order? The Rule of Two? If anything, that shows weakness. The Sith of that time weren't able to govern themselves as massive organization, even with a Council. Ragnos, on the other hand, sominated an empire.
Plagueis's mysticism? You mean his manipulation of midichlorians? According to the databank, Plagueis manipulated midichlorians like an 'ancient Sith alchemist'. I'll find you the exact line.
The instakills may not be as effective against a reigning Dark Lord who'd defended himself against attempts at the throne for do many decades, or against someone of similar or greater power.
Tearing the place to pieces? If Ragnos hadn't already torn it apart with his scepter, Sidious's kill himself.
Drain? As IKC said, Tavion was able to drain the Force energy from entire planets with his scepter. The power it would be able to unleash in his hands would be unfathomable.
Pinch off a nerve in his brain? Lol!
This is ridiculous, Lightsnake.
1. Yes, checking with people who are in tune with the force itself-and being offered a high place of honor by them is so debilitating....and pwned by Han Solo? Explain the line: "It is time to enter the child as I promised."
2. How do you explain Kun's final frantic efforts and inability to escape? I call that trapped.
3. Or the amulet is performing its exact purpose. Responding to the user
4. Palpatine also ripped apart a fleet, and a temple on Ossus and one on Nespis VIII
5. Ragnos also failed to provide any structure to the Sith, hence them falling apart after his death. Bane said it best: Too many Lords spread the Dark Side thin.
6. Noone but Sidious knows the extent of Plageuis's mysticism...the midichlorian thing could easily be the start of it.
7. And Sidious was able to do likewise. I doubt Tavion drained the energy of a place like Byss.
8. Yes, pinch off a nerve in his brain. Mara and Brakiss both mention that ability
And I've scanned the pic in, but it seems to be too big to attatch...help there?
Host the pic with www.imageshack.us
But really, you just buried Sidious when you said that the Dark Empire Sourcebook was canon. Now we can go drag up RPG stats and show where Ragnos steps on NJO Luke, Yoda, and Sidious, probably all at the same time. And the RPG stats don't even account for his TOYS, like the sceptre!
Before or after Ragnos realizes he taught Palpatine his darkest secrets and Palpatine implements a technique Ragnos has never seen on him?
And for the record: Too many Sith Lords weakens the Order. Jedi Vs. Sith for source.
How did Ragnos get that sceptre? Did he make it? Was it done by JUST him? Was it added to over the millenia? Recharged?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Yes, checking with people who are in tune with the force itself-and being offered a high place of honor by them is so debilitating....and pwned by Han Solo? Explain the line: "It is time to enter the child as I promised."
If he knew anything they did already why did he have to GO and ASK them for KNOWLEDGE ? And please don't tell me they taught him everything but left that little detail out...
2. How do you explain Kun's final frantic efforts and inability to escape? I call that trapped.
What ? Frantic efforts ? Inability to escape ? He didn't even try to escape so where do you see the inability there ? He just showed up, controlled one of Luke's students and then force choked them all at once. And then he was confronted with the combined power of all of them + Luke (who had already defeated DE Sidious at that point) + Vodo. And he was a spirit at that time.
3. Or the amulet is performing its exact purpose. Responding to the user
Now what ? You want to tell us know that Kun is twice as powerful as Sadow ? Great. And he's still nothing compared to Ragnos.
4. Palpatine also ripped apart a fleet, and a temple on Ossus and one on Nespis VIII
A minor force user using one of Ragnos gimmicks drained the force from several planets, destroyed a room and the same thing was able to nearly kill Kyle Katarn with a single shot. I wonder what it would do in Ragnos hands.
5. Ragnos also failed to provide any structure to the Sith, hence them falling apart after his death. Bane said it best: Too many Lords spread the Dark Side thin.
What's that ? Feat wars ? Now keeping an entire empire of force users under your belt is somehow less impressive than failing to keep a single apprentice under control ?
6. Noone but Sidious knows the extent of Plageuis's mysticism...the midichlorian thing could easily be the start of it.
Sidious admits in ROTS that he himself doesn't know anything. So why you keep bringing this up again and again ?
7. And Sidious was able to do likewise. I doubt Tavion drained the energy of a place like Byss.
Notice again: Draining the force from planets just using the sceptre while being a minor force user. Did Sidious drain Byss (a single planet) empty ?
8. Yes, pinch off a nerve in his brain. Mara and Brakiss both mention that ability
Yeah. I guess the most powerful Sith Lord of the Ancient Sith Empire wouldn't be able to protect against telekinesis. And because of that ability Sidious nearly got killed by Mace Windu and Yoda.
And I've scanned the pic in, but it seems to be too big to attatch...help there?
Upload it somewhere...
Originally posted by Lightsnake
RPG stats themselves: Gaming purpose
Story info contained within sourcebooks: Complete continuity.
Story info contained within sourcebooks? You mean the sourcebook published in 1993, before mention of guys like Kun or Ragnos? You mean the sourcebook that is contradicted by higher level of canon and ergo inaccurate?
The RPG stats are for gaming purpose. But they are also approved, meaning that you won't see Han Solo with 50 times the stats of NJO Luke. And guess what, in the approved RPG stats, Ragnos pisses on everyone except Exar Kun. In fact, in a head to head duel, provided you get equal die rolls, Ragnos owns the entire cast. QED.
And way to over generalize. So KotOR is for gaming purpose, does it mean nothing in it is marginally official? JK:A is for gaming purpose, is nothing in it official? Hell, the STAR WARS MOVIES are for entertainment purpose, does it mean that everything is taken with a grain of salt.
You say we can't criticize Luke based on CGI, so are you arguing with the stated canon? Don't twist parameters if you can't back them up.
Sidious was draining the enrgy of worlds as well, point? And yes, the final boss had the most powerful attack in the game....gameplay measures the idea of strength now?
Because it's a constant. Regardless of how you play that game, that attack still exists and has that level of power.
It's like you arguing that Revan doesn't exist because you died in the second level. Regardless of how you play that game, Revan exists.
And the Ancient Sith are wiped out on three planets and need to be tricked into going into war, that takes their godliness down a peg. We know Sidious learned from Ragnos and his ilk, learned their quote unquote 'Darkest Secrets', found their ancient holocrons...
Which makes him stronger than them... how? You've yet to answer this question. All you're doing is appealing to majority, ad nauseum, and claiming that absense of evidence is proof of absence.
And Sidious was shot in the back by a guy with a blaster. I guess that takes his godliness down a peg. I love how you "randomly" decide the parameters of omniscient narration. Are you arguing with the official source now just so Sidious can win? Get over yourself.
5. Ragnos also failed to provide any structure to the Sith, hence them falling apart after his death. Bane said it best: Too many Lords spread the Dark Side thin.
Bane's personal ideology impacts the respective powers of a single Dark Lord, how? You're really reaching with this one.
Prior to Bane, the Sith were raging a millenia long war against the Jedi, after Bane, they were relegated towards lurking in the shadows.
How does this indicate that more Sith Lords make the Dark Side weak, again? Face it, Sidious in ROTS was a victim of circumstance.
Okay then. Ragnos kills Sidious by draining his force energy with his scepter. The End.
Yup. Ragnos' grasp on the force was said to be downright "frightening" even among the godlike ancient Sith, whom Traya says makes the KotOR era individuals look like Children.
There is no reason to suggest that he doesn't have some of the strongest force powers in all of SW continuity except for lack of evidence that was never meant to be there in the first place for thematic purposes. As for learning the sith's "darkest secrets" where does that line even suggest that he learned all that Ragnos knew? Or that he learned them to a higher proficiency than Ragnos, or that he knew more than Ragnos?
I'll tell you where; nowhere except for the mind of Lightsnake. And like IKC says, fanboys don't make Sidious win.
Originally posted by Illustrious
Story info contained within sourcebooks? You mean the sourcebook published in 1993, before mention of guys like Kun or Ragnos? You mean the sourcebook that is contradicted by higher level of canon and ergo inaccurate?The RPG stats are for gaming purpose. But they are also approved, meaning that you won't see Han Solo with 50 times the stats of NJO Luke. And guess what, in the [b]approved
RPG stats, Ragnos pisses on everyone except Exar Kun. In fact, in a head to head duel, provided you get equal die rolls, Ragnos owns the entire cast. QED.And way to over generalize. So KotOR is for gaming purpose, does it mean nothing in it is marginally official? JK:A is for gaming purpose, is nothing in it official? Hell, the STAR WARS MOVIES are for entertainment purpose, does it mean that everything is taken with a grain of salt.
You say we can't criticize Luke based on CGI, so are you arguing with the stated canon? Don't twist parameters if you can't back them up.
Because it's a constant. Regardless of how you play that game, that attack still exists and has that level of power.
It's like you arguing that Revan doesn't exist because you died in the second level. Regardless of how you play that game, Revan exists.
Which makes him stronger than them... how? You've yet to answer this question. All you're doing is appealing to majority, ad nauseum, and claiming that absense of evidence is proof of absence.
And Sidious was shot in the back by a guy with a blaster. I guess that takes his godliness down a peg. I love how you "randomly" decide the parameters of omniscient narration. Are you arguing with the official source now just so Sidious can win? Get over yourself.
Bane's personal ideology impacts the respective powers of a single Dark Lord, how? You're really reaching with this one.
Prior to Bane, the Sith were raging a millenia long war against the Jedi, after Bane, they were relegated towards lurking in the shadows.
How does this indicate that more Sith Lords make the Dark Side weak, again? Face it, Sidious in ROTS was a victim of circumstance.
Yup. Ragnos' grasp on the force was said to be downright "frightening" even among the godlike ancient Sith, whom Traya says makes the KotOR era individuals look like Children.
There is no reason to suggest that he doesn't have some of the strongest force powers in all of SW continuity except for lack of evidence that was never meant to be there in the first place for thematic purposes. As for learning the sith's "darkest secrets" where does that line even suggest that he learned all that Ragnos knew? Or that he learned them to a higher proficiency than Ragnos, or that he knew more than Ragnos?
I'll tell you where; nowhere except for the mind of Lightsnake. And like IKC says, fanboys don't make Sidious win. [/B]
1. Oh, come on...something existed before someone else did so its invalid?
2. Not QED. STATS are described as game only. Story info is described as EU canon and has factored more than a bit.
3. So, I assume in KOTOR, people can take flurries and not fall to pieces? Gameplay isn't canon.
4. Oh, Sidious only perfected most if not all existing Sith techniques, rediscovered ancient ones and developed new ones....Come on, where's absolute proof Ragnos could annihilate a fleet on his own? Or drain the energy of a planet? And Palpatine was quite happy to be shot..."It's time to enter the child, as I promised."
5. Oh, please, Bane's philosophy was proven several times. The decline of the powers of the Sith, Bane noticing how the Dark Side was spread thin-him being damaged by something that never would have harmed him otherwhise and didn't later on. And in the ROTS novelization? Sidious's order is described as quite a bit stronger than those who had come before.
6. No Proof except LACK of evidence that he knew them? And given that Palpatine learned their best secrets and developed new ones, as well as 'unlocked the secrets of the Force', absorbed the power of holocrons...
And Byss was destroyed by the time Tavion or Desann were around
1. Oh, come on...something existed before someone else did so its invalid?
Durr... if it fails to count for later data, it is invalid. In the same way that story arcs can be retconned and information can be changed at will. Lucas has even said that EU can be altered. If something was released in 1985 saying there is no planet such as "Naboo" it obviously would be false, because Naboo is depicted in the PT trilogy, a newer and higher level of canonicity.
The DE sourcebook does not account for later data, which includes the most pertinent point -- Ragnos, ergo it is not accurate. It's that simple.
2. Not QED. STATS are described as game only. Story info is described as EU canon and has factored more than a bit.
As I mentioned, you will never see Han Solo with higher stats than Luke Skywalker. Why? Because these stats are approved, they are not pulled from the recesses of someone's anus.
Your EU continuity is from a source book that has shown itself to be obsolete. That is QED.
3. So, I assume in KOTOR, people can take flurries and not fall to pieces? Gameplay isn't canon.
OMG, don't be daft. It isn't about Gameplay. It's about CONSTANTS.
In a cutscene, we see Tavion absorbing the force from a planet, in a cutscene we see her taking out a temple on Byss with a casual sweep of Ragnos' scepter. In the game CODING we know that possessed Tavin's drain is the most powerful attack in the game.
You are arguing about gameplay variation, I'm using constants within gameplay. Big difference.
4. Oh, Sidious only perfected most if not all existing Sith techniques, rediscovered ancient ones and developed new ones....Come on, where's absolute proof Ragnos could annihilate a fleet on his own? Or drain the energy of a planet? And Palpatine was quite happy to be shot..."It's time to enter the child, as I promised."
Feat wars; Logical Fallacy.
So if DE Sidious never ruled over an Empire of other force users and Sith Lords, he's weaker than Ragnos? BS. Just because he hasn't performed a particular feat does not indicate he's incapable or inferior. Get over it.
Where does it state he perfected most/all of the existing Sith techniques? It never once states or quantifies numerically how much he learned. Provided that he did plunder stuff from places already plundered, or from Sith Lords that don't teach all their abilities (Simus never taught Sadow everything, fact.), it's blatant fanboy speculation to believe otherwise.
5. Oh, please, Bane's philosophy was proven several times. The decline of the powers of the Sith, Bane noticing how the Dark Side was spread thin-him being damaged by something that never would have harmed him otherwhise and didn't later on. And in the ROTS novelization? Sidious's order is described as quite a bit stronger than those who had come before.
Sidious had an order? Please. I doubt it said that Palpatine ruled over the high point of the wealthy and powerful Sith Empire like Ragnos did. That was stated in canon the highest point of Sith power. Period.
And like I said, where's the correlation between empire and person? You've yet to substantiate anything. Next!
6. No Proof except LACK of evidence that he knew them? And given that Palpatine learned their best secrets and developed new ones, as well as 'unlocked the secrets of the Force', absorbed the power of holocrons...
Are any of those comparative?
No? Sorry, next.
Originally posted by Illustrious
Durr... if it fails to count for later data, it is invalid. In the same way that story arcs can be retconned and information can be changed at will. Lucas has even said that EU can be altered. If something was released in 1985 saying there is no planet such as "Naboo" it obviously would be false, because Naboo is depicted in the PT trilogy, a newer and higher level of canonicity.The DE sourcebook does not account for later data, which includes the most pertinent point -- Ragnos, ergo it is not accurate. It's that simple.
As I mentioned, you will never see Han Solo with higher stats than Luke Skywalker. Why? Because these stats are approved, they are not pulled from the recesses of someone's anus.
Your EU continuity is from a source book that has shown itself to be obsolete. That is QED.
OMG, don't be daft. It isn't about Gameplay. It's about CONSTANTS.
In a cutscene, we see Tavion absorbing the force from a planet, in a cutscene we see her taking out a temple on Byss with a casual sweep of Ragnos' scepter. In the game CODING we know that possessed Tavin's drain is the most powerful attack in the game.
You are arguing about gameplay variation, I'm using constants within gameplay. Big difference.
Feat wars; Logical Fallacy.
So if DE Sidious never ruled over an Empire of other force users and Sith Lords, he's weaker than Ragnos? BS. Just because he hasn't performed a particular feat does not indicate he's incapable or inferior. Get over it.
Where does it state he perfected most/all of the existing Sith techniques? It never once states or quantifies numerically how much he learned. Provided that he did plunder stuff from places already plundered, or from Sith Lords that don't teach all their abilities (Simus never taught Sadow everything, fact.), it's blatant fanboy speculation to believe otherwise.
Sidious had an order? Please. I doubt it said that Palpatine ruled over the high point of the wealthy and powerful Sith Empire like Ragnos did. That was stated in canon the highest point of Sith power. Period.
And like I said, where's the correlation between empire and person? You've yet to substantiate anything. Next!
Are any of those comparative?
No? Sorry, next.
1. Durrr! Why would that be? And sorry, direct statements to Palpatine's power were never overwritten. Unles TOTJ said "Ragnos was the best ever, there will never be another strong as Ragnos" then your point collapses. And the DE sourcebook was written...And considering the fact that the entire Tales of the Jedi storyline was already in development....and what retcons have been made? They were more likely to retcon TOTJ than DE. Just because Naboo isn't mentioned doesn't mean it didn't exist. Unless a source said "There is no planet called Naboo, Palpatine is from Coruscant." The point collapses.
2. And have a disclaimer saying they should only apply to games. It's only obsolete in your mind.
3. Nice try. Byss was DESTROYED by the time Jedi Academy came around.
4. Not an empire of DS users? Explain the Hands, Inquisitors, Dark Side Elite, Prophets, Sithspawn....Arden Lyn...
5. Sourcebook directly stated Sidious perfected those techniques, among several other places.
6. What do you call the order Sidious ended in? Wow, THE SITH ORDER maybe?
7. Yes, the Sith would refuse to teach their secrets to the remaining Sith when they'd already taught him their secrets and thought him their greatest hope and he'd succeeded in conquering the galaxy and exterminating the Jedi Order...And yes, nice one, passing up his unlcoking secrets of the Force, taking Sith and Jedi holocrons, absorbed power from both....yes, when's Ragnos destroyed a fleet? He hasn't? Did Ragnos managed to force one of the two original Dark Jedi into servitude? And kill her effortlessly?
1. Durrr! Why would that be? And sorry, direct statements to Palpatine's power were never overwritten. Unles TOTJ said "Ragnos was the best ever, there will never be another strong as Ragnos" then your point collapses. And the DE sourcebook was written...And considering the fact that the entire Tales of the Jedi storyline was already in development....and what retcons have been made? They were more likely to retcon TOTJ than DE. Just because Naboo isn't mentioned doesn't mean it didn't exist. Unless a source said "There is no planet called Naboo, Palpatine is from Coruscant." The point collapses.
Wow, you must think you're slick. The DE sourcebook is not canon, it does not account for other things outside of the DE continuity. It does not take into account TOTJ. TOTJ on the other hand, does make references to other times. It makes a reference to dates, etc. and also mentions the ancient Sith as being godlike and having titanic power after referencing the later generations! How convenient.
2. And have a disclaimer saying they should only apply to games. It's only obsolete in your mind.
So that means the DE Sourcebook is obsolete. It was made BEFORE TOTJ, by WESTEND GAMES (not Lucasarts or Lucasfilm) for their roleplaying game.
Good try. I hope you're not trying to hang your hat on this. You discount one RPG (the D20 version) yet you prop up the sourcebook for another (the D6). So if I reference the D20 sourcebook stating that Ragnos is the most powerful dark lord of the sith, I have you beat?
3. Nice try. Byss was DESTROYED by the time Jedi Academy came around.
Kinda like the continuity error of how Palpatine trained Maul for 15 years behind Plagueis' back, right? This diminishes the displayed power of Ragnos' scepter how?
4. Not an empire of DS users? Explain the Hands, Inquisitors, Dark Side Elite, Prophets, Sithspawn....Arden Lyn...
I'll call your hand, and I'll raise you Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh, Lord Simus, and 17 other Sith Lords.
Are any of those even Sith? Oops, nope.
5. Sourcebook directly stated Sidious perfected those techniques, among several other places.
See above about Sourcebook. The DE Sourcebook is an obsolete sourcebook about an RPG. Why not have me bring out my DnD manual? It's about as relevant.
Sorry, you don't decide level of canon Lightsnake.
6. What do you call the order Sidious ended in? Wow, THE SITH ORDER maybe?
And this was superior to the Sith Empire -- officially described as the high point of Sith power, how?
7. Yes, the Sith would refuse to teach their secrets to the remaining Sith when they'd already taught him their secrets and thought him their greatest hope and he'd succeeded in conquering the galaxy and exterminating the Jedi Order...And yes, nice one, passing up his unlcoking secrets of the Force, taking Sith and Jedi holocrons, absorbed power from both....yes, when's Ragnos destroyed a fleet? He hasn't? Did Ragnos managed to force one of the two original Dark Jedi into servitude? And kill her effortlessly?
Those feats are not comparative. In case you're daft:
[code]
com·par·a·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (km-pr-tv)
adj.
Relating to, based on, or involving comparison.
Of or relating to the scientific or historical comparison of different phenomena, institutions, or objects, such as languages, legal systems, or anatomical structures, in an effort to understand their origins or relationships.
Estimated by comparison; relative: a comparative newcomer.
Grammar. Of, relating to, or being the intermediate degree of comparison of adjectives, as better, sweeter, or more wonderful, or adverbs, as more softly.
n. Grammar
The comparative degree.
An adjective or adverb expressing the comparative degree.
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By your logic, because Sidious never came close to "dominating" over a "wealthy Empire" of "millions" of "godlike Sith," he doesn't even come close to Ragnos.
Cut it with the feat wars, you're digging yourself a bigger hole.