Originally posted by Nellinator
Did they say he didn't die, or did they fail to mention it?
From the Quran . . . .
[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did . All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture . For certain, they never killed him.
[4:158] Instead, Allah raised him to Him; Allah is Almighty, Most Wise.
The way most Muslim interprets this passage is that Jesus, the real person, the soul, was raised in the same manner as in the death of any righteous person. Subsequently, his enemies arrested, tortured, and crucified his living, but empty, body . . . . this smells a lot like the Nestorian Christian's interpretation.
Thank you for answering because I have never read the Quran. I would have to disagree with the Quran. It seems to fail miserably at providing any proof that Jesus was not crucified. Some claim the Bible lacks proof but I would say the word of three witness is more correct the conjecture of one unbelieving man. Those are my thoughts anyways.
Originally posted by Nellinator
The big difference I see is that the prophecies concerning the Savior predate any Savior's predating Jesus. Also prophecy is unlikely to predict the coming of someone like someone from another religion. That is my belief. I personally believe the fulfillment of prophecies to be proof. The fact that Jesus is the only prophecied Savior that I know of and that he was completely discribed before his coming (as early as 1800 BC) makes me see Jesus as an original and unique Savior and the only one that's claim can be validated.
Well the Koran also said that Muhammad's teachings were the only ones preserved in pristine form. All the other teachings of the EARLIER prophets from God like Jesus and Moses were twisted by their followers. Yep, like Jews and Christians, Muslims also uses catch-all phrases/explanations 😂.
Judas of Galilee and John the Baptist predates Jesus as a Messiah claimant.
John the Baptist is called Elijah and is the prophet meant to proceed the coming of Christ according to the gospel.
This Judas obviously never died to cleanse our sins and never fulfilled the prophecies of the suffering servant in Isaiah 52-53. And therefore could not be the Messiah. LITERALLY the Messiah was not meant to be a military man. Jesus was both the literal and figurative fulfillment of the prophecies.
Originally posted by Nellinator
John the Baptist is called Elijah and is the prophet meant to proceed the coming of Christ according to the gospel.This Judas obviously never died to cleanse our sins and never fulfilled the prophecies of the suffering servant in Isaiah 52-53. And therefore could not be the Messiah. LITERALLY the Messiah was not meant to be a military man. Jesus was both the literal and figurative fulfillment of the prophecies.
Yeah. John the Baptist's church LOST the fight and he was relegated to an inferior status compared to Jesus. The Mandaeans however believed that Jesus is a false prophet and they predate Christianity.
Dogmatically speaking, the Jewish messiah is patterned after David, a religious warrior king (or so according to most Jewish scholars). Like David, he would rescue his people from thier enemies. Saving the Jews from their enemies, namely the Romans are the first order of business this is why Judas and Kokhba (sp?) are soldiers.
Found this (very convenient since i dont have a bible currently) list of textual requirements for a Jewish Messiah in Wiki, most of which Jesus FAILED.
The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)- Unfulfilled even to this today, i think, any Jews to verify this? Jesus OPPOSED the leaders of Judaism in his time.
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4) - Unfulfilled.
The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17) -Unfulfilled.
He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10) - Assuming the genealogical list in Matthew is accurate . . . . yeah lets give this one to JC.
The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2) - Unfulfilled. Christianity DIVERGED from Judaism.
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4) - Unfulfilled.
Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9) - Unfulfilled.
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10) - Unfulfilled.
All Jews will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12) - Fulfilled but not by Jesus. The Jewish Diaspora occured a couple of years after Jesus.
He will swallow up death forever (Isaiah 25:8) - Unfulfilled.
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8) - Unfulfilled.
All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19) - Unfulfilled 😆.
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11) - Unfulfilled.
He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7) - Unfulfilled.
Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5) - Some of this is fulfilled but not during Jesus' time or even shortly after.
For My House shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3-7) - Unfulfilled.
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23) - Unfulfilled 😆.
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55) - Unfulfilled. The Romans SACKED Jewish cities including Jerusalem during the Jewish-Roman war. This is the root of the Jewish Diaspora.
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9) - Unfulfilled 😆.
The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot - Unfulfilled 😆.
He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together, as it is written (Zephaniah 3:9) - Unfulfilled.
Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33) - Unfulfilled 😆.
He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4) - Unfulfilled.
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9) - Unfulfilled. Modern agricultural methods does this however.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You remind me of those Muslims who rioted over a cartoon.
I am in a great mood, I was just asking you a question.
Romans 8:37-39
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
🙂
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am in a great mood, I was just asking you a question.Romans 8:37-39
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.🙂
To slander you is against my religion. What I say about your religion is what I say about my religion. The Lotus sutra uses mythology to reflect a higher truth then what can be conveyed in any other way. The bible is the same way, it tells stories that have meaning, wear the meaning is more important then the story. That is what I call mythology.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well.............not necessarily. There are some things that are definitely blasphemous.🙂
Please give examples.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well.............not necessarily. There are some things that are definitely blasphemous.🙂
But the individual may not consider it such, and from his view at that time it would not be. Also, I doubt a blasphemer would be able to term his act as blasphemous at the time due to the definition.
blas·phe·my (blsf-m)
NOUN:
pl. blas·phe·mies
1
a A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
b The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
2 An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.