Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What skill edge?
Basically, the only real point of contention between Batman and Captain America is Batman being more skilled in the eyes of his supporters (who generally concede that Steve is physically on another level).
And upon closer inspection, it's extremely debatable.
Originally posted by cdtm
Caps stronger, yes.But the strength debate is one big waste of time, imo.. Since when has strength ever been a winning factor in a fight of elites where the gap is under many tons.?
People should be debating things like striking and combat feats, not who can bench more.
That is unless you think lesnar has a multi-ton strength advantage😛
Now imagine if that skill diffrence shrunk down to the other guy knowing a few more stances than you but nothing concrete.
Cap stomp
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, to add to pym's (and everyone else's) opinions, Batman is far more reliant on his gadgets, than Cap is on his shield.Which handicaps him even more.
He's only reliant on them against enemies that are vastly superior in one form or another. I don't see it being a handicap against, well, Cap.
Originally posted by -Pr-
He's only reliant on them against enemies that are vastly superior in one form or another. I don't see it being a handicap against, well, Cap.
Not always vastly - take Bane, for example, or Killer Croc (not that I'm saying Cap is equal to these guys, that's a debate for another day). He doesn't only bust out his gadgets for Darkseid or the General - even if its something as simple as Batarangs or his grappling hook, or nightvision.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not always vastly - take Bane, for example, or Killer Croc (not that I'm saying Cap is equal to these guys, that's a debate for another day). He doesn't only bust out his gadgets for Darkseid or the General - even if its something as simple as Batarangs or his grappling hook, or nightvision.
Oh, okay. Still, I don't know that's supposed to put him at a disadvantage.
Not saying he'd win, but still.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Basically, the only real point of contention between Batman and Captain America is Batman being more skilled in the eyes of his supporters (who generally concede that Steve is physically on another level).And upon closer inspection, it's extremely debatable.
It's an undeniably absurd notion, and I have no idea why it seems to have taken hold.
Almost no one would have any hesitation in admitting that Shiva, Dragon or BT are more skilled than Batman, if only marginally so. It's well established that those characters are above Bruce in terms of martial prowess. Conservatively speaking Shang-Chi is on par with those three (he's actually significantly better... but lest pretend he is merely their equal), and in the Marvel U Captain America is established as being more skilled than Shang-Chi. Shang-Chi's villains have said it, Shang-Chi has confirmed it, and Captain America has proven it. Caps also stated he is better than Iron Fist. When DC firmly establishes that Batman is more skilled than Shiva, Dragon or BT, and doesn't have Batman's closest friends and allies walking around and suggesting or in some cases out right stating that likes of Black Cannary or Connor Hawke are more skilled than Bruce is, then we can start to talk about Batman being on par with Steve Rogers. Captain America is stronger, faster and more skilled than Batman. Captain America is more skilled than Batman... he is more skilled than several characters who are themselves more skilled than Batman. That's it.
Captain America would rag doll Batman just like Slade and Azrael have. This really should have been a short thread, there is no excuse for believing Batman can win.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Long wall of text
I just didn't want to clog up the page by repeating, but srank's right - its no shame to be inferior to Cap in this regard. Batman never is or was the premier MA in DC, he uses other skills and advantages, one of which is taken away in this fight.
Cap wins, IMO. Not a stomp, it'll last a page or two, but he'll win.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
**** 'skill' anyway.It's unquantifiable.
Knowing a whole laundry list of stances isn't exactly helpful after a certain point anyway.
And the attributes that are quantifiable (speed, timing, precision, and balance)... should all point to Spider-man innately being one the most skilled fighters... but he isn't and everything becomes completely arbitrary. 🙁
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I just didn't want to clog up the page by repeating, but srank's right - its no shame to be inferior to Cap in this regard. Batman never is or was the premier MA in DC
Cap isn't the premier MA in Marvel either, though. 🙁
But both Cap and Batman can compete with top MA, and often force a draw, at the least.
Originally posted by cdtm
Cap isn't the premier MA in Marvel either, though. 🙁But both Cap and Batman can compete with top MA, and often force a draw, at the least.
He is the premier street level MA though. Obviously once you start getting into characters that are super humanly skilled like Mandarin, Temugin, or Stick, or even higher up with the cosmic level MA's like Mantis, Cap starts to noticeably lag behind... but Batman isn't even the premier street level MA in DC (never mind MA in general including cosmic level MA) so it's not a terribly significant mark against Cap.
Originally posted by cdtm
Shang Chi and Daredevil might have something to say about that. 😉As for Stick, sure, he chi amps, but that doesn't take away from his skills. You don't train some of the best MA's in marvel just by amping your stats.
Neither Shang-Chi or Daredevil having thing to say that would be contrary to my statement and one of them has outright stated that Captain America is more skilled, and by happy coincident it was Shang-Chi... who is more skilled than Daredevil.
I mentioned Stick. He isn't street, he is super humanly skilled... dude trained to the point that he no longer needed a corporeal body.
Originally posted by Silent Masterexcept for he doesn't.
Not really, this has been gone over several times in this very thread, Cap has the better physical stat feats.
Batmans feats are plain ridiculous for anyone near peak human street. Well known fact. easily comparable to cap. Add that to the fact that hes more skilled by way of displayed ma training, utilization, and versatility......and smarter. which apparently counts for nothing. I mean, you can't punch with your brain, right?🙄
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Neither Shang-Chi or Daredevil having thing to say that would be contrary to my statement and one of them has outright stated that Captain America is more skilled, and by happy coincident it was Shang-Chi... who is more skilled than Daredevil.I mentioned Stick. He isn't street, he is super humanly skilled... dude trained to the point that he no longer needed a corporeal body.
Ah sorry, thought you were trying to downplay Sticks skill on the basis of chi amped stats. Apologies.
Do you know off hand when Shang Chi said this? Was it during that Heroes for Hire run around the Civil War time frame?
Originally posted by Silent Masternot so. Slight edge taking into account caps high end, but still easily comparable.
Again, this has been gone over several times in this very thread, Cap has the better physical stat feats.
Writers involved with every comic meeting between have decided to have them stalemate each time. Maybe because they know a thing or two about BOTH characters.