Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by leonidas
i could show him smashing steel doors, or lifting weights beyond what even rl peak humans could lift

The guy was taking however many ton stone pillars being broken off his back recently and was yelling at Death's Head while he was doing it. And both are far beyond Tony.

This whole conceived notion of peak humans is silly. Tony would be a superhuman here. Cap and Batman would be super weapons. It basically means nothing

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Even someone like Tony Stark is so crazily beyond what the most powerful living human can accomplish

The guy was taking however many ton stone pillars being broken off his back recently and was yelling at Death's Head while he was doing it. And both are far beyond Tony.

This whole conceived notion of peak humans is silly. Tony would be a superhuman here. Cap and Batman would be super weapons. It basically means nothing

oh, i agree completely. there seems to be a notion that anything that batman does that is clearly outside what a normal "peak" human could do is.....PIS. not accusing pym of this, but it is definitely an idea that is still quite prevalent. because he is seen in that "human" light, people automatically appeal to things like "common sense" and generalities or bio descriptions to suggest cap is vastly superior to batman when on panel evidence suggests anything BUT that. i know i'm preaching to the choir by responding to you, but i just wanted to reiterate the reasoning behind my "challenge".

and i certainly have no 'personal' stake in this. if the cap side CAN show feats that are definitively "stomp-worthy-superior" to what i (or others) can show for bats, i have no problem admitting such. i hope that if/when the feats are posted and it is seen that there is NO vast difference, at least some on the other side will admit the same.

btw, this isn't necessarily a cap side vs bat side, as has been intimated. this is a stomp side vs a "they're much much closer than that" side.

I feel like I should qualify what I mean by a stomp,

I can't see Batman winning, theoretically he can but it would be more akin to a fluke, a lucky hit or a mistake by Steve. That said the chances of that happening even out of 100 fights is pretty slim imo.

I won't make an argument against ODG's interpretation of the civil war fight other than to say its an interpretation.

Originally posted by leonidas
okay, so, still not sure how to exactly counter that armor feat since its durability was questionable and its a pretty specific feat. i could show him smashing steel doors, or lifting weights beyond what even rl peak humans could lift, but i thought these feats against grundy show off his striking power pretty clearly. grundy's durability CAN and does vary, but regardless of its level, it is always superhuman and since it can be questionable at times, i figure it matches up well with the armor scene:

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsgrundy-dv1.jpg.html

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batvsgrundy-dv2.jpg

and to prove it wasn't a one-off, outlier-fluke:

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Skills%20Misc/supermanbatman3-batkogrundy.jpg.html

i would certainly put that demonstration in the same category as the breaking apart of the armor. there are a couple others i could post, but finding something directly analogous is pretty tough, so i went with something i thought equally impressive given some of grundy's very good showings (even when not at PEAK) levels.

I see your Grundy and raise you a Hulk beating.

Or punching out Rhino.

Batman also kicked WW in the stomach and caused pain, along with fighting the rest of the JLA in his early years. Stupid, but insane.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
I won't make an argument against ODG's interpretation of the civil war fight other than to say its an interpretation.

He seems right, though. Said pretty much the same thing myself when debated against Sam.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Batman also kicked WW in the stomach and caused pain, along with fighting the rest of the JLA in his early years. Stupid, but insane.

He also broke his knuckles after punching her face, same issue. Cap punched IG Thanos and was ok 😎

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I see your Grundy and raise you a Hulk beating.

hulk beating? cool, post away. we did agree to avoid the blatantly PIS-type feats though but go ahead and show it.

Hey, both fights written by Loeb, all fair to me... 😛

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Or punching out Rhino.

again, cool, but let's see it so we can compare some stuff. punching out rhino is pretty impressive.....

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hey, both fights written by Loeb, all fair to me... 😛

heh. i should have ruled out any loeb stuff. sneer

When do we get to see a batkick?

Hasn't Cap punched out one of the members of the Wrecking Crew before?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
When do we get to see a batkick?

😖hifty:

Originally posted by leonidas
again, cool, but let's see it so we can compare some stuff. punching out rhino is pretty impressive.....

Took several hits and he [rhino] was getting overheated or something, iirc.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Hasn't Cap punched out one of the members of the Wrecking Crew before?

He has a few great showings here and there against WC, mainly Wrecker...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Took several hits and he [rhino] was getting overheated or something, iirc.

i remember the scene, just hoping for scans so others can see full context so that if i post something people can judge how comparable via direct comparison.

Originally posted by leonidas
again, cool, but let's see it so we can compare some stuff. punching out rhino is pretty impressive.....

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/2311965-captain_america_vs_rhino.jpg

Originally posted by King KAM
Let me put all the speculation to an end.

Batman is the master of a BUNCH of styles but that does not make him a better fighter than cap off of pure h2h, Cap has shown that he can throw down with the best of them and win, cap has Taken all the EFFECTIVE martial arts and mixed them together, making him ATLEAST batmans equal if not his better, MARVEL has stated that cap is probably the best unarmed combatant that the world has ever known.

Cap is also batmans superior physically by great amounts, he used to be able to lift 800pounds when he first came out, but has been seen to press slightly over 1,000pounds, he can regualarly curl 500pounds contiously and over multi reps in work outs, and has the best stamina any human could ever have, his body can operate at full speed for hours at end.

If this battle is pure h2h, the cap wins, and pretty fast, his judo is better, his jiu-jitsu is better, he trains more, has more experience, and his physically better. this fight doesnt last very long at all

The cap by way of beatdown EARLY 10/10

Agree with on this..

Props to Bats for being a Reg.Human badasszz, but Cap is just to beast for him..Fight not as close as we like thou

Originally posted by pym-ftw
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9389/capiii09p17ah7.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/2311965-captain_america_vs_rhino.jpg

good feat, no doubt. i would have countered that with the grundy feat, but i used that already. i think the best i can find atm is this one, where he takes out gorilla grodd, who is typically a solid cl50 (he's flipped cars onto the roofs of buildings) and has some pretty uber feats of his own. there is another time bats took him on but for the life of me i can't find it:

this is just after bats warns him that he better leave:

http://imageshack.us/f/513/6hc.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/689/dw0u.jpg/

perhaps not exactly the same, but i'd think a battle between grodd and rhino (no tp obviously for grodd) would be pretty damn close so imo the grodd stuff counters the rhino showing pretty well.