Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by leonidas
good feat, no doubt. i would have countered that with the grundy feat, but i used that already. i think the best i can find atm is this one, where he takes out gorilla grodd, who is typically a solid cl50 (he's flipped cars onto the roofs of buildings) and has some pretty uber feats of his own. there is another time bats took him on but for the life of me i can't find it:

this is just after bats warns him that he better leave:

http://imageshack.us/f/513/6hc.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/689/dw0u.jpg/

perhaps not exactly the same, but i'd think a battle between grodd and rhino (no tp obviously for grodd) would be pretty damn close so imo the grodd stuff counters the rhino showing pretty well.

Grodd at his best has like tossed cars a few stories high? The Geoff John's arc is the strongest I can remember him seeing by far. Before that, he was maybe as strong as average Spider-Man? Rhino at his best has punched people into orbit and gone toe to toe with the Hulk, ragdolled Colossus IIRC (Who himself is stronger then Grodd) etc.

I don't think either Rhino or Grodd were operating at their best levels against Captain America/Batman but I have no idea how you think it's comparable. Especially since Grodd has a far lower threshold. At times he's nothing more then Gorilla strong while Rhino is at least considered pretty strong jobber or not.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Grodd at his best has like maybe tossed cars a few stories high? Rhino at his best has punched people into orbit and gone toe to toe with the Hulk, ragdolled Colossus IIRC (Who himself is noticeably stronger then Grodd) etc.

I don't think either Rhino or Grodd were operating at their best levels against Captain America/Batman but I have no idea how you think it's comparable. Especially since Grodd as far as I can tell has a far lower threshold. At times he's nothing more then Gorilla strong while Rhino is at least considered pretty strong jobber or not.

and grodd has slugged it briefly with supergirl and landed solid shots on superman, and done well against guys like aquaman. in general, i'd put standard grodd at about cl30-50, rhino, cl75ish. both have higher and lower feats, but in lots of ways i think they are pretty close. clearly neither was at their best here, and a battle between them would certainly be close given some of grodd's feats. his speed, savagery and damage soak is especially impressive. i also said the grundy feats are a better match, but one-shot ko'ing grodd? that's pretty damn solid.

Originally posted by leonidas
and grodd has slugged it briefly with supergirl and landed solid shots on superman, and done well against guys like aquaman. in general, i'd put standard grodd at about cl30-50, rhino, cl75ish. both have higher and lower feats, but in lots of ways i think they are pretty close. clearly neither was at their best here, and a battle between them would certainly be close given some of grodd's feats. his speed, savagery and damage soak is especially impressive. i also said the grundy feats are a better match, but one-shot ko'ing grodd? that's pretty damn solid.

Slugged it out? Pretty sure she manhandled him and came off as a lot stronger then Grodd after the telepathy broke despite not being about strength at the time. From what I remember of the Superman showing, he punched him or threw him once to no effect (I need to see the scans, it's been a while)? If I do remember it right, it was nowhere near comparable going toe to toe with the Hulk for hours. Not even in the same league, that's elite strongman levels. When did he fight Aquaman? Class 35 or 50? Grodd is much weaker then that. This dude was once held in an regular cage and couldn't break out man. Granted, you could consider that a low showing but aside from Johns, this was a pretty fair estimation of his raw strength in my experience.

In what way are they close? You have to examine a high showing for Grodd, and a low showing for Rhino for them to be somewhat close. But a high showing for Rhino? Not even in the same league.

Grodd has also been one shot knocked out by a crowbar to the head and has operated at not much more then Gorilla strength levels. I admit, it was an impressive showing either way you cut it (Even before Geoff John's, he had crazy damage soak) but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

The Grundy fight is comparable, the Grodd one isn't.

I think the both sides have to show skill feats. There's just no way Bats will match him on a physical stat feat war. Cap does superhuman feats on a regular basis. Many of which are way beyond peak human level. Off the top of my head he went toe to toe with Crusher Creel and Crimson Dynamo. I'm talking about giving and taking hits. There's a ton of feats just like those.

There's no way Grodd is a cl 35-50, not realistically or regularly.

I'd rank him at class 10 at best.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I think the both sides have to show skill feats. There's just no way Bats will match him on a physical stat feat war. Cap does superhuman feats on a regular basis. Many of which are way beyond peak human level. Off the top of my head he went toe to toe with Crusher Creel and Crimson Dynamo. I'm talking about giving and taking hits. There's a ton of feats just like those.

Seriously, the guy went toe to toe with a pissed Namor just a couple of years ago, he was losing, but he gave nearly as good as he got.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
There's no way Grodd is a cl 35-50, not realistically or regularly.

I'd rank him at class 10 at best.

I'd say he's class 20.

One shots Namor (He had been blasted by the Human Torch once but still):

F*ck Grodd. That throw alone is pretty crazy.

And while I'm at it, demonstrates some more of his superhuman stats:

Steve can be a lot stronger then Batman imho.

The shield toss is definitely pis. Hes done the exact same thing to Namor and it had absolutely zero effect/reaction, as it should be.

Originally posted by namorsubby
The shield toss is definitely pis. Hes done the exact same thing to Namor and it had absolutely zero effect/reaction, as it should be.

But he's shredded trucks and helicopters with shield tosses.

He's punched Iron Man hard enough for the latter to go flying a few meters and make a small crater with his crash landing.

Batman has punched people through walls. Doesn't really matter who imo, they're both strong enough to move bodies with great force.

Making a crater in the ground is superior to punching through walls.

This is obvious.

Punching a human through a wall displays your strength better. IM is in a metal suit. He could fall from the sky and create an impact crater himself.

Steve can be a lot stronger then Batman imho. [/B]

He's okay with that shield, but imagine if it was thrown by someone with real skill like Batman! 🙄

Batman threw/hit Dr Death through a door built to withstand cruise missiles if that helps

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I think the both sides have to show skill feats. There's just no way Bats will match him on a physical stat feat war. Cap does superhuman feats on a regular basis. Many of which are way beyond peak human level. Off the top of my head he went toe to toe with Crusher Creel and Crimson Dynamo. I'm talking about giving and taking hits. There's a ton of feats just like those.

Also, the Rhino. And skills are subjective, so Cap kicks his ass.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Punching a human through a wall displays your strength better. IM is in a metal suit. He could fall from the sky and create an impact crater himself.

So you're trying to argue for Iron Man's weight?

Well that makes the feat even better on Cap's behalf, as Cap's fist accelerated Iron Man's weight fast enough within a distance of only a few meters to make a crater in the ground.

He'd have to fall a lot farther than that to make a crater in the ground.

Iron Man's newer suits aren't even particularly heavy anyway, as their often portable or even on his person from the get go.

The point is, busting through brick walls, is not as impressive as making a crater in asphalt.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Punching a human through a wall displays your strength better. IM is in a metal suit. He could fall from the sky and create an impact crater himself.

So, you're arguing that it takes more strength to punch a human through a wall, than punching a human wearing armor hard enough to leave a crater?

Hes made of metal so he put a dent in the ground. Batman put a talon through a stone wall, who is flesh, blood, and bone.