Originally posted by Dizzle
That's a cool shield that he whacks Hyde in the face with... Does he have that here?Amen that this guy hasn't mastered the banana smiley... We'd all be doomed. (jk SW, jk) 💃 💃 💃
Well that's true he doesn't have it here......😛
Anyway w/o it, here 2 scans Cap fighting a bear and making it go away with 2 hits.
Originally posted by DizzleAlso said this
That's ad hominem again... He wasn't saying that at all, and you know it. He said that Cap's best fighting is done with his shield.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
However, Batman doesn't need any shields to block an enemies attacks. Capt does. Batman has the edge over Capt.
Originally posted by DizzleIt's amount of impact on his combat effectiveness is still an unknown. Period. He'd likely still take Bats. I honestly can't think of too many times that I've seen Cap without the shield. Anybody got pics of him getting his @ss kicked without it? Come to think of it, anybody got any pix of Cap getting his @ss kicked by anybody non-meta?
He has VERY few fights without it, while Batman does a hell of a lot of pure h2h combat. It's not that Cap is useless without it, but he relies on it much more than Batman relies on his gadgets. Therefore, it wold stand to reason that he would be hurt more by the loss of his shield than Batman would be by the loss of his gadgets.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Take away Batman's utility belt. He still has his martial arts skills and defense tactics.Take away Captain America's Shield. He still has his fighting skills BUT his defense tactics decrease do to his dependence on the shield.
In Hand to hand combat both men will retain their fighting skills. However, Batman doesn't need any shields to block an enemies attacks. Capt does. Batman has the edge over Capt.
bull and more bull.
where are you people from?
cap is a master of all forms of combat. You have to be a master at blocking as well as striking to be a master of all forms of combat. There is no way bats can stand a chance with cap. Even without cap's extra strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, durability, etc. cap will win 10/10.
Cap's hand to hand (not shield to hand) fighting ability is unequaled by any (from Marvel). He knows even alien forms of combat.
Batman loses 10/10
Any argument of this only proves that one is either a fanboy, ignorant of facts, or worst (plain dumb).
Originally posted by Dizzle
The thing is, Cap DIDN'T train for 16 years. He trained for a couple months, tops. He's been FIGHTING for a long time, but that doesn't make him more proficient in the martial arts. Whatever Cap knows, batman knows, and probably a way to counter it too. That IS his advantage. Cap's advantage is simply that he's stronger. The two are very very close. 5/10 each. And what peak humans has Cap taken out that are even close to Batman?YES!!!! Slow but steady success! Vote 5/10!
people don't know facts it seems!
cap is a master of all forms of combat (go to marvel and find out). That means karate, ninjitsu, kung-fu, wrestling, alien arts, etc. He has been training since world war II (a couple of months is the most ridiculous statement at this whole site). Lower his strength, reflexes, speed, stamina to batman level and he will still win 10/10. The most stupid thing to say is that bat is a better fighter than captain america.
If that is the case then why would Marvel say he is a master of all forms of combat and his hand to hand fighting ability is unequaled by any.
people don't know facts it seems!
cap is a master of all forms of combat (go to marvel and find out). That means karate, ninjitsu, kung-fu, wrestling, alien arts, etc. He has been training since world war II (a couple of months is the most ridiculous statement at this whole site). Lower his strength, reflexes, speed, stamina to batman level and he will still win 10/10. The most stupid thing to say is that bat is a better fighter than captain america.
If that is the case then why would Marvel say he is a master of all forms of combat and his hand to hand fighting ability is unequaled by any.
Ok if we lower captain america's strength, reflexes, speed, and stamina to batman's level, what are you basing it on that at this state captain america can beat batman.
Originally posted by h1a8
people don't know facts it seems!
cap is a master of all forms of combat (go to marvel and find out). That means karate, ninjitsu, kung-fu, wrestling, alien arts, etc. He has been training since world war II (a couple of months is the most ridiculous statement at this whole site). Lower his strength, reflexes, speed, stamina to batman level and he will still win 10/10. The most stupid thing to say is that bat is a better fighter than captain america.
If that is the case then why would Marvel say he is a master of all forms of combat and his [B]hand to hand fighting ability is unequaled by any. [/B]
Ok, you obviously don't actually know Cap's history...
During WWII, the SSS was developed to be used as a secret weapon against the Nazis. Steve is given it and made Cap, is trained for a few months, (the exact time is unknown, but Batman's training actually lasted longer than WWII... and Cap was put into action fairly quickly) and immediately is sent to war. During the war, Cap was frozen in the ocean. He was frozen, not training, for something in the vicinity of 40 years. Once unfrozen, he is immediately made the head of the Avengers and given government assignments and such. The only actual training he received was between getting the SSS and fighting in war, hence, a few months, covering stuff like jiu jitsu, boxing, and judo.
Cap does NOT know every form of combat. You are getting your figures from an internet website or a handbook, not actual comics. Not a single part of his history, nor his feats, would support him knowing anything beyond a few styles. His skill in h2h is very good. He is said to have no equal ON EARTH, which is still wrong, as Karnak would eat him for breakfast. Hell, Shang Chi probably should, given his feats, but it'll never happen in comics.
Batman knows 127 martial arts, and I DO have scans to prove it. That is, according to him, every major form of combat on the planet. Saying Cap knows every martial art possible is simple crap. How and when did he train with an alien master to learn anything not from Earth? If he is really unequaled, why can't he beat Thor and Juggernaut, when Mantis can? Why can't he shatter diamonds, when Karnak can? Plain and simple, the "unequaled" thing is hyperbole.
Originally posted by h1a8
bull and more bull.
where are you people from?
cap is a [B]master of all forms of combat. You have to be a master at blocking as well as striking to be a master of all forms of combat. There is no way bats can stand a chance with cap. Even without cap's extra strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, durability, etc. cap will win 10/10.
Cap's hand to hand (not shield to hand) fighting ability is unequaled by any (from Marvel). He knows even alien forms of combat.
Batman loses 10/10
Any argument of this only proves that one is either a fanboy, ignorant of facts, or worst (plain dumb). [/B]
Prove that Cap is a master of every form of combat. I want scans of him outmatching Karnak and Mantis, I want scans of him beating up Juggernaut and stalemating Thanos. THEN, and ONLY then, you may have a point instead of misinformed nonsense.
Originally posted by Dizzlecome on man...juggernaut and thanos....thats a little far...not even karate kid wants it with them....
Prove that Cap is a master of every form of combat. I want scans of him outmatching Karnak and Mantis, I want scans of him beating up Juggernaut and stalemating Thanos. THEN, and ONLY then, you may have a point instead of misinformed nonsense.
Originally posted by brainchild81
Also said this
It's amount of impact on his combat effectiveness is still an unknown. Period. He'd likely still take Bats. I honestly can't think of too many times that I've seen Cap without the shield. Anybody got pics of him getting his @ss kicked without it? Come to think of it, anybody got any pix of Cap getting his @ss kicked by anybody non-meta?
Again, you're asking me (anyone) to prove a negative. Cap doesn't lose without his shield, because he always HAS his shield. Marvel is not going to kill off the leader of the most famous team in Marvel, and they are NOT going to let the symbol of America get his ass kicked. He may lose, but it'll never be really badly. It's almost exactly like DC with both Superman and Batman. Except Batman does everything h2h already, so he has plenty of feats. The point is, it is YOUR job to prove that Cap is competent without his shield, not mine to prove that he isn't.
Originally posted by King KAM
come on man...juggernaut and thanos....thats a little far...not even karate kid wants it with them....
Mantis beat Juggernaut. Gamora was able to avoid taking a single hit from Thanos. Gamora is slightly above human, Mantis has slightly beyond peak speed and agility. Both operate through skills, and kill everything. If Cap is the best in the universe, he has to match both of them.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I think that Cap would have to be stronger and more durable, thanks to the Super Soldier serum. I'd give this one to Cap.
Stronger, probably, but just barely. The Batsuit is FAR superior to Cap's chainmail, so any durability difference would be equalized, being lenient towards Cap. And I still have yet to see ANYONE with good pure h2h feats for Cap. The best I can think of is when he dressed up as Crossbones and beat up 4 virtually unknown baddies in a row. Good, yes, but nowhere near the level of the stuff Batman does every day.
Originally posted by DizzleMe personally i say if you put them in between cap and the american dream...they both will die.
Mantis beat Juggernaut. Gamora was able to avoid taking a single hit from Thanos. Gamora is slightly above human, Mantis has slightly beyond peak speed and agility. Both operate through skills, and kill everything. If Cap is the best in the universe, he has to match both of them.
Originally posted by King KAM
Me personally i say if you put them in between cap and the american dream...they both will die.
That's not really fair though. The American Dream automatically grants any patriotic figures a jobber aura to rival the combined auras of Fanboy Wolverine, Spiderman, and Batman's left toe combined. That's a BIG jobber aura.
Originally posted by Dizzleyeah....but u know he still wins if those are the stakes. He Starts to get real gritty, like when hes in war.
That's not really fair though. The American Dream automatically grants any patriotic figures a jobber aura to rival the combined auras of Fanboy Wolverine, Spiderman, and Batman's left toe combined. That's a BIG jobber aura.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Prove that Cap is a master of every form of combat. I want scans of him outmatching Karnak and Mantis, I want scans of him beating up Juggernaut and stalemating Thanos. THEN, and ONLY then, you may have a point instead of misinformed nonsense.
read marvel handbook (which is the official judge on what's what)
how can you argue with the people who write the comics. If they say he is a master of all forms of combat then how can you say they are false. They are the creators. That is common sense. And when they say his hand to hand combat skills are unequaled they don't mean he can beat anyone by fighting them hand to hand. That is a ridiculous statement. They simply mean that anyone given his hand to hand skills will simply outclass there former self. Or that he can beat anyone in hand to hand combat with similar speed, reflexes, strength, durability, stamina etc. (another non-meta human).
Originally posted by h1a8Post the scan of it saying that he's master of all forms of combat, because his Marvel.com bio doesn't.
read marvel handbook (which is the official judge on what's what)
how can you argue with the people who write the comics. If they say he is a master of all forms of combat then how can you say they are false. They are the creators. That is common sense. And when they say his hand to hand combat skills are unequaled they don't mean he can beat anyone by fighting them hand to hand. That is a ridiculous statement. They simply mean that anyone given his hand to hand skills will simply outclass there former self. Or that he can beat anyone in hand to hand combat with similar speed, reflexes, strength, durability, stamina etc. (another non-meta human).
Marvel.com says Boxing and Judo.
Batman however, knows every Earth based Martial Art.
Originally posted by h1a8
bull and more bull.
where are you people from?
cap is a [B]master of all forms of combat. You have to be a master at blocking as well as striking to be a master of all forms of combat. There is no way bats can stand a chance with cap. Even without cap's extra strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, durability, etc. cap will win 10/10.
Cap's hand to hand (not shield to hand) fighting ability is unequaled by any (from Marvel). He knows even alien forms of combat.
Batman loses 10/10
Any argument of this only proves that one is either a fanboy, ignorant of facts, or worst (plain dumb). [/B]
Before you start talking about bull. Take a long look at your post. Where in the world does it say that Capt. is master of all forms of combat?????
As far I know Capt was trained by the American army as a Super soldier to fight the nazis. If he has been gaining figthing skills post WWII that doesn't mean he has master them! If you were to say that the original avengers did trained him (after getting him outta of the big block of ice he was in for decades) in all forms of combat. That would be acceptable. But I don't recall such thing happening.
Look at the point I made! If you take away Captain America's shield that is a huge impact on his fighting skills.
Without his Mjolnir Hammer is Thor the same? NO!
Without his Iron man suit is Tony Stark the same? NO!
Without his arrows is Hawkman the same? NO!
Without his shield Captain America has to fight acrobatic. Or else he would be blown away by any opponent.
Many times Batman has lost his utility belt (or remove it) in order to fight a certain opponent. And just like Capt. he has fought in a acrobatic style.
Don't come here and tell that without his shield Captain America remains the same. Because that is real bull!