Originally posted by Silent Master
Correct me if I'm wrong but Batman's on panel proof is a cd that he gave Batgirl that was mostly viewed off-panel, how does that prove he knows those styles. I could checkout a judo book from the library and make a video of me doing the moves, that doesn't prove I actually know them.
Because then he goes through them with her.
http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=2d8_batcd1b.jpg
Originally posted by Silent Master
That was a holographic recording of him going through the motions, again I could do the same with a book I checked out of a library, so how is it that proves he knows 127 styles but Cap stating what he knows doesn't?
Because he wasn't reading out of a book. 😉
If you really need more of Batman's diversity...
Defeats Robin in 3 minutes, going what he considers to be easy, and using ONLY Indian styles.
My favorite quote from Shadow of the Bat... (#0)
"The grim purpose that burned inside him was growing, demanding direction, seeking release. He looked further, to the East. He learned karate from an ascended master in the Paektu-San mountains of Korea--Savate from a convicted killer living as a beach bum on an island off Borneo. Six months in a japanese hermitage taught him the value of Judo and Ju-jitsu. From a chinese woman so old she should have been dead, he learned the secrets of the Tao, that nothing is fixed, everything is fluid, everthing is energy. He mastered a dozen disciplines, experimented with them and fused them into something that was uniquely his own. In Africa he learned how to read the environment for the signs man's passage leaves--how to find and follow a trail to which ordinary men were blind...The ninjas taught him their secrets--how to use the shadows, how to employ psychology to win the battle before it's even fought--the precautions to take when you make yourself a target--and how to use fear."
He's trained with everyone.
The top ranked Yakuza teaching him body reading techniques. It's not just Shiva and Batgirl anymore...
Cap has never shown anything close to the level of skill that Batman has, plain and simple.
Oh, and I never said that Batman was necessarily a master in all 127 arts. However, being able to teach them requires a good amount of proficience. It implies that he is at least good with all of them, meaning that he would know EVERYTHING that Cap could ever hope to try to pull on him. It doesn't hurt that he trained in some single arts for more time than Cap trained period.
Originally posted by the Darkone
Captain America has taken on people that crumb stomp Bane into shit and leave him for dead. Captain Amercia fights super power meta human and kicks their ass like a champ, not saying batman doesn't but cap does it on a regular bases.
FIghting fresh, Batman took out multiple people on Venom. The equivalent of 5 Banes. He's also taken down Bane without much effort on multiple occasions. The back breaking incident happened ONLY because Batman had gone for days without sleep, as you said, he was physically and mentally exhausted.
Trying to bring up stamina again brainchild? Are you going to prove that the fight is going to last more than 15 minutes, or are you just going to bandwagon with the surge of 30 guys who clearly haven't read a quarter of the thread yet?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Since I still can't post links or pics, everyone will just have to settle to a quote.
That sounds an awful lot like Cache claims to know every MA style in the world... But then gets beat up, through shoddy execution. It says Cap is a good fighter, but who is Cache? I have countless fights of Batman defeating the world's "best" martial artists, (hell, I have him beating up 5 of them) but none of them have done anything of note except getting beat up by Batman. There's nothing to compare them to, so I don't include it. Cap's beating up a nameless villain, nothing real big.
Originally posted by Silent Master
So quotes that about what Batman knows are valid but quotes about what Cap knows aren't?
Hardly. Find me a narration that covers when, what, and where Cap trained, and I'll accept it. A number out of a handbook will not do, beating a nobody will not do, and Cap claiming something once will certainly not do. He wouldn't flat out lie, but he WOULD stretch the truth, when he's mid fight with a guy.
Actually Cap said he was better trained than someone that has catalogued all styles, seriously why are we to accept that Batman knows what he states he does but Cap doesn’t get the same benefit?
Here is another quote
Marcus: Initial analysis indicates that they are using the inchoate energies within the pyramid to duplicate our simulacrum-projection technology, though how skilled can they---Kang: Enough, do not underestimate them. Captain America is an astounding warrior-- he has never fought under these conditions before-- but already he adapts- mastering the form more completely than many who’ve trained for decades, it is what makes him such a worthy foe.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Hardly. Find me a narration that covers when, what, and where Cap trained, and I'll accept it. A number out of a handbook will not do, beating a nobody will not do, and Cap claiming something once will certainly not do. He wouldn't flat out lie, but he WOULD stretch the truth, when he's mid fight with a guy.
Provide me a list that details the name of all 127 styles Batman knows and where he learned each one.
See how silly asking for a list is?
Originally posted by DizzleI've proved it's going to last more than 15 about as much as you've proved it's going to be shorter than 15. You've done nothing so far but say fights don't last that long. We'll never be done with stamina until you prove that it won't be a factor. Me bandwagon? Does that even sound like me? What have I done to be insulted like that!? I think for my MFing self!
FIghting fresh, Batman took out multiple people on Venom. The equivalent of 5 Banes. He's also taken down Bane without much effort on multiple occasions. The back breaking incident happened ONLY because Batman had gone for days without sleep, as you said, he was physically and mentally exhausted.Trying to bring up stamina again brainchild? Are you going to prove that the fight is going to last more than 15 minutes, or are you just going to bandwagon with the surge of 30 guys who clearly haven't read a quarter of the thread yet?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Provide me a list that details the name of all 127 styles Batman knows and where he learned each one.See how silly asking for a list is?
I don't have to. Several sources have been provided that say he knows 127 styles, and I have proven where and for how long he has studied many of them. When? Between his parents death and his fulltime career as Batman. Where? Everywhere, all across the globe. Some with Richard Dragon, some with Shiva, some with Kirigi, Tsunemoto, etc. 127 styles is the end result of all of that. It's very specific, naming arts was never what I asked for.
Give me a number or give me specific arts, try to explain how Cap found the time to master that many martial arts, show examples of him using them all. You can't, the dude never uses anything but his shield. You're simply not going to do better than a single, questionable quote from Cap himself.
He claims to be better trained than Cache, but that could mean he is simply better with what he knows, which could still be a considerable amount less than Batman. Knowledge does not mean effective, but Batman has proven his combat effectiveness time and time again. Shieldless, Cap has not, plain and simple.
As to the Kang quote, I'm not asking you to prove Cap's a good fighter. I'm asking you to back up your BS claim that Cap knows every martial art in existance. YOU CAN'T. Give it up.
Originally posted by brainchild81
I've proved it's going to last more than 15 about as much as you've proved it's going to be shorter than 15. You've done nothing so far but say fights don't last that long. We'll never be done with stamina until you prove that it won't be a factor. Me bandwagon? Does that even sound like me? What have I done to be insulted like that!? I think for my MFing self!
The argument died after the majority of people had decided that no real fights have ever lasted that long. 15 minutes isn't even the limit, Batman's fought for 10 hours straight without noticable signs of tiring. The thing is, you have yet to prove that the fight will last longer than 15 minutes, when Batman can last hours beyond that. The fact that you couldn't even prove 15 minutes makes 2 or 3 hours ridiculous to even consider, hence, the subject was basically dropped.
You bring it up now, when claims of "Cap knows every stlye of fighting in the universe" pop up. People claim, against plenty of evidence, that Cap is vastly superior in strength and speed, though I've proven otherwise several times over. You pick NOW, when people bump the thread with crap posts, to redress an argument that ended pages ago.
Excuse my unfounded confusion.
Why should I give it up when Marvel wrote comics where Cap states he knows all forms of hand to hand combat, where Cap states he is better trained than someone that has catalogued all styles and when the marvel handbooks and website list his skill at 7 which Marvel themselves define as knowing all styles?
Of course Batman has more examples where his knowledge is mentioned, he only appears in about three times the number of books as Cap does.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Why should I give it up when Marvel wrote comics where Cap states he knows all forms of hand to hand combat, where Cap states he is better trained than someone that has catalogued all styles and when the marvel handbooks and website list his skill at 7 which Marvel themselves define as knowing all styles?Of course Batman has more examples where his knowledge is mentioned, he only appears in about three times the number of books as Cap does.
All forms is general as hell, that's why. "Better trained" could mean a lot of things, it doesn't necessarily mean one knows more styles than the other. Many people in Marvel have 7's without backing it up, Marvel's rating system is very consistantly flawed. The closest thing you have is a single, unsupported quote froom Captain America.
Answer 3 questions.
Is Cap more skilled than Mantis?
Gamora?
Karnak?
All 3 are from Marvel. If Cap is indeed a master of all forms of combat, he should beat them all. Go.
