Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Then by that logic Batman take down cruise missile is PIS. See that was easy fact of the matter is Cap is stronger if we go by majority feats, and statements.

What cruise missile are you talking about?

There is a limit to what we can use to supposed street level characters. Batman and Captain America have plenty of PIS feats.

Batman has harmed Wonder Woman and stunned her with one attack, kicked Captain Marvel once, and apparently he hit him so hard he transformed back to Billy Batson. He has other countless PIS feats that don't make sense. He has a huge jobber aura.

Going by majority of feats, you could argue that either is superior.

I could definitely make a case for Batman as he has a huge amount of feats that are just plain retarded, but I won't. I'm using realistic feats, and not PIS, which is the same I'm doing for Captain America. Going by those, they seem pretty even to me.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Iron Man is greater then Cap by a lot thats for sure. But Cap high end feats are >>>then Batmans. And even his average feats are >>then Batmans.

His high end feats superior to Batman?

That is extremely debatable. Have you seen what Batman has done to the likes of Wonder Woman, Lobo, Captain Marvel, Doomsday, Darkseid?

Captain America's high end feats being superior to Batman's is highly questionable. Either way, I'm ignoring those PIS feats.

His average feats superior to Batman?

Again debatable. I would say them seem pretty equal.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
PIS. See anyone can do that. Anyways I won't trust you interpretation since you butchered Ult Cap vs ult GM.

You can call it PIS, but you're the one who brought up the statement of Captain America being as strong as ten men, and I simply shown that doesn't really matter much.

😕

Umm, what?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
So what if Slade is stated that strong?

So what that Slade is stronger then Batman. And Cap has been stated the same thing. C'mon man put 2 +2 together. For your information Cap's strength feats are better then Slades too. But I class Slade and Cap the same since there so similar in certain feats and certain statements.

Christ.

Captain America was once stated to be as strong as ten men, and you that means he rivals Slade and makes him superior to Batman?

That statement means nothing important. The likes of Nightwing has manhandled an opponent supposedly stronger than ten men as I recall.

They are both PIS. Don't base you're opinion on one situation. Both Captain America and Batman are peak human and not Superhuman. You keep bringing up feats that are above, and I can do the same for Batman but I refrain from it.

Batman has feats that are above Slade but I still rate Slade above Batman as he is shown to consistently be that level and his enhanced human and I refrain from using clear PIS which you seem to not.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Captain America's high end feats being superior to Batman's is highly questionable. Either way, I'm ignoring those PIS feats.

Oh....my....god. Is he implying what I think he is? Is it IDL, IDH?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What cruise missile are you talking about?

There is a limit to what we can use to supposed street level characters. Batman and Captain America have plenty of PIS feats.

You brought up the feat of Bats bringing down a door that can withstand a cruise missile. Sheeesh try remembering what you say, since you brought up that particular feat.

Batman has harmed Wonder Woman and stunned her with one attack, kicked Captain Marvel once, and apparently he hit him so hard he transformed back to Billy Batson. He has other countless PIS feats that don't make sense. He has a huge jobber aura.

Going by majority of feats, you could argue that either is superior.

I could definitely make a case for Batman as he has a huge amount of feats that are just plain retarded, but I won't. I'm using realistic feats, and not PIS, which is the same I'm doing for Captain America. Going by those, they seem pretty even to me.

Except Cap has done them since day 1 as opposed to Batman. Hurting Bricks Cap does regularly since Avenger vol 1 like Powerman, Hyde, to even the Executionar. Batman is more a out linear feats.

His high end feats superior to Batman?

That is extremely debatable. Have you seen what Batman has done to the likes of Wonder Woman, Lobo, Captain Marvel, Doomsday, Darkseid?

Captain America's high end feats being superior to Batman's is highly questionable. Either way, I'm ignoring those PIS feats.

His average feats superior to Batman?

Again debatable. I would say them seem pretty equal.

Yes I have and they still don't compare. None of those guys did Bats ever KO. Caps high end feats are greater.

You can call it PIS, but you're the one who brought up the statement of Captain America being as strong as ten men, and I simply shown that doesn't really matter much.
😕

Umm, what?

Christ.

Captain America was once stated to be as strong as ten men, and you that means he rivals Slade and makes him superior to Batman?

That statement means nothing important. The likes of Nightwing has manhandled an opponent supposedly stronger than ten men as I recall.

They are both PIS. Don't base you're opinion on one situation. Both Captain America and Batman are peak human and not Superhuman. You keep bringing up feats that are above, and I can do the same for Batman but I refrain from it.

Batman has feats that are above Slade but I still rate Slade above Batman as he is shown to consistently be that level and his enhanced human and I refrain from using clear PIS which you seem to not.

Nightwing is more skilled then his stronger opponents. I mean Slade was stronger and NW did well. Doesn't mean that NW is stronger then Slade. Wait so DC peak human defintion means Marvel peak human definition........LOL. No. You do know Peak human strength means to lift double one's weight by marvel so there are many peak humans by your logic.

Fact is Cap's peak human has been called preternatural. Do you know what that even means look it up. Cap's stats get brough up all the time in his fights with his streets. Bats not so much.

Cap's SSS peak has been called "almost superhuman". Guess who else received such statements. Hint its not Batman........yes again its Slade. For your information Cap has been also called enhanced human.

And to my knowledge Batman has never been called by the same peak human definition like Cap.

Cap's peak human has been clearly identified in the books for example:
Peak of human "potential".
"Super men"
"Enhanced human"
"almost superhuman"(like Slade)
And probably the most important one
"The next step in human evolution".

Batman is none of the above. Peak human strength is just anyone that can lift double there weight by Marvel. A lot of characters fit that definition. But not many fit Cap's peak human definition and clearly its not Batman.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh....my....god. Is he implying what I think he is? Is it IDL, IDH?

Odd huh. The fact that he thinks Batman peakhuman is the same as Cap as the peak of human potential.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Going by majority of feats, you could argue that either is superior.

His average feats superior to Batman?

Again debatable. I would say them seem pretty equal.

Nope.

Steve Rogers has been shown to be able to reach speeds of up to 60mph on foot.

He has healed from a gunshot wound to the head after being pronounced dead.

During the civil war he was absolutely battered by Iron Man and was so severely injured his leg was basically fractured in several places from the looks of the scan. He was also badly injured elsewhere on his body. Either way a very very short time after being injured he was practically fully healed and barking orders. Healing factor much? Those injuries would have utterly crippled Batman for at best weeks.

He has stated he can dodge bullets because he "sees faster".

His body simply doesn't produce harmful toxins/lactic acids meaning his muscles will be fine and unaffected even when Batman is tired.

Daredevil, a guy who has strength feats which would make Batman proud, has flat out stated Cap is physically a level above him.

No amount of physical training can bring anyone up to Cap's level since the serum takes no account of genes as it enhances a man to the absolute apex of human physical development. Hell Cap has been described as the next step in human evolution.

Then we have Ed Brubaker stating and showing on panel Cap is not 'Batman with a shield' but something else completely different.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Captain America was once stated to be as strong as ten men, and you that means he rivals Slade and makes him superior to Batman?

That statement means nothing important. The likes of Nightwing has manhandled an opponent supposedly stronger than ten men as I recall.

Slade has been shown to be physically superior particularly strength wise to Batman. Slade has been stated to have the strength of ten men as has Cap...........................😕

Nothing important? See above.

Where is the scan of Nightwing supposedly overpowering an opponent with the strength of ten men?

Not that any of this matters since Cap's strength feats clearly make him stronger than Bruce.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Batman has feats that are above Slade but I still rate Slade above Batman as he is shown to consistently be that level and his enhanced human and I refrain from using clear PIS which you seem to not.

What feats does Bruce have that are above Slade's?

You,me and anyone with sense puts Slade above Bruce because just about every time they fight it has been stated and shown on panel that Sade is physically superior to Batman.

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Let me put all the speculation to an end.

Batman is a master of 127 different form of martial arts. Taking all that he has mastered and putting it in to one. Making him a more effective fighter and martial artist than captain America. Because instead of batman taking all the effective martial arts and forming a new style. He could take only the most basic, important thing from each of the 127 arts that he knows and form an art that is more fluid in its movement and firm in combat.

Batman has taken beatings from super-powered beings and he is still hear to tell the tail. Like the beating batman got from superman when he thought that batman was darksied. How about the time when batman was dressed up as brainac. Or how about the beating he got from Mongul. Batman is one tough GUY. Being more powerful that him does not automatically give who ever it is the win.

Batman speed should be able keep up with Captain America. He has been shown to tag Bart (speedster from the teen titans) at low sub speed.

In a UFC fight it is a straight 50/50 mark for both contenders. If batman cheats as well as he fights more wins to him. Who is more likely to cause a disqualification? Who is more likely likely to use some forgotten art?

You must be kidding...127 fighting styles I don't know who came up with that insane number but get real I would like someone to name 127 fighting styles! and as a martial artist I know a person can spend a lifetime on one style and never master it but OK lets say he did I am sorry but bats could not overcome the physical superiority. oh, and to your superman point, sure he's tough but do you really think that if superman wanted him dead he couldn't do it? one punch and batman's red mist in a black cape! p.s. he tagged Bart cause he.s a dufus and how his arm wasn't ripped of by the "low sub speed" is beyond me.

Batman and Daredevil would be much better matched bat's just isn't on Cap's level.

Does Cap have NO serum as well?

'Cause without it, he's nothing but a useless bum.
Much, much weaker than your average thug.

Cap without serum isn't Cap, but he would still beat your average thug.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Does Cap have NO serum as well?

'Cause without it, he's nothing but a useless bum.
Much, much weaker than your average thug.

Cap in an extremely close match

Batman is a better martial artist, but Cap has him beat in physical stats

He will outlast Bats

Originally posted by darthgoober
He's taken down the Serpent Society and Crossbones without the serum in his system...

Darth you are the man. You know what issues this happened? Serioulsy if the Cap respect thread gets started there should be a section exclusivley dedicated to Cap sans SSS.

Edi: I know hes taken down Crosbones but I ont know about the SS...opps thought you meant at the same time.

Originally posted by Xzpunisher

Batman is a better martial artist, but Cap has him beat in physical stats

Thats debateable

Batman has mastered more styles then Cap has and is smarter

Lets face facts, the only reason Cap has ever been a match for Bats is because of his physical attributes

If Cap's physical stats were equal to Batman then Bruce would kick his ass all over the place

Originally posted by Xzpunisher
Batman has mastered more styles then Cap has and is smarter

You dont know that for a fact Cap tends not to talk about his fighting style like batman does. Even if he has that doesnt amke him a better martial artist. No Batman is not smarter you wanna stop making stuff up. Cap learnt an alien martial art in one day.

Originally posted by Xzpunisher

Lets face facts, the only reason Cap has ever been a match for Bats is because of his physical attributes

If Cap's physical stats were equal to Batman then Bruce would kick his ass all over the place

You have know idea what you're talking about. Cap has taken down the expert martial artist Crossbones without SSS. Hes also held his own against Giant Man and Yellowjacket, not only did he not have the SSS but he was dying as well.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You dont know that for a fact Cap tends not to talk about his fighting style like batman does. Even if he has that doesnt amke him a better martial artist. No Batman is not smarter you wanna stop making stuff up. Cap learnt an alien martial art in one day.

You have know idea what you're talking about. Cap has taken down the expert martial artist Crossbones without SSS. Hes also held his own against Giant Man and Yellowjacket, not only did he not have the SSS but he was dying as well.

Batman has mastered 127 styles, Cap masted mainly Judo, Boxing and Jiujitsu and blended them into his own fighting style

Yes Batman is smarter then Cap is, and I am suprised you think otherwise

Cap was able to hold his own against Pym because of his physical stats

Thats soley why I give him the edge in this fight, because of his physical stats

Even Black Panther acknowledge that Cap fights more like a brawler then an actual martial artist

Who cares if Batman knows 102318459231023 fighting styles? It's not about knowing a ton of styles, it's all about using one's martial art to it's top potential. Heck some MMA fighters utilize only one or two techniques and they do quite well (Machida for one).

Originally posted by Xzpunisher
Actually I think its you who doesnt know what hes talking about

Batman has mastered 127 styles, Cap masted mainly Judo, Boxing and Jiujitsu and blended them into his own fighting style

No you dont know what you're talking about Cap knows more than that, knowing more styles doesnt make you better. Hell Cap even knows at least one alien martial art.

Originally posted by Xzpunisher

Yes Batman is smarter then Cap is, and I am suprised you think otherwise

Nope, prove Batman is smarter.

Originally posted by Xzpunisher

Cap was able to hold his own against Pym because of his physical stats

Thats soley why I give him the edge in this fight, because of his physical stats

Wrong , Cap was actually weaker than Pym when he was fighting him.

Originally posted by Xzpunisher

Even Black Panther acknowledge that Cap fights more like a brawler then an actual martial artist

Id love to see that quote because DD said that Cap was one of the earth greatest combatants and enemies of Shang Chi said that Cap was better than Shang Chi.

Originally posted by Xzpunisher
Batman has mastered 127 styles

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Nope, prove Batman is smarter.

Originally posted by Juntai
lmao.

Go ahead then. edit: Im assuming in the context of this thread hes refering to tactics or martial arts smarts not building stuff.