DN Luke vs Exar Kun

Originally posted by IKC
You apparently think that's the end-all-be-all of my argument. Read the entire thread next time, that's just the most sure way Kun has to kill Luke.

He could easily tear him apart in a lightsaber duel, or a duel of the Force as well.

How is an ability a feat, by the way? Boba Fett can fly with his jetpack. Is that a feat? If I bring that up, am I engaging in feat wars?

This is the main thrust: Luke has no edge on Kun in any facet of personal combat. Kun is his superior in every way in that regard.

No, emerald lightning only stuns its victim. Jacen then hacked the Vong up while it was stunned.

How the ****, by the way, would lightning beat those beams? I see them dissipating as Kun's beam comes crashing at Luke. Luke begins wetting his pants a millisecond before he's vaporized.

Or he uses his Jedi reflexes and jumps outta the way...Not that hard of a thing to do. You don't think Luke is just gonna stand there and take the blast in the face...

And about the lightning, thats odd...I've heard people arguing about Luke's "instakill" abilities all the time...weird.

And about the ability not being a "feat" you've said constantly "he kills beasts and look what the beams do to walls etc etc..." thats a feat my friend.

And about the Luke/ saber thing. I haven't seen much evidence of Kun's amazing saber skill....

ikc do you really think you have a chance against superman?

IKC:

I refuse to read either of those piles of festering excrement.

And good job, you read... some of them.

My source for NJO and DN? I'll just use you. Try proving up.

And I will use you as my source for all things TOTJ. There, I have you as a source and you have me. Don’t try that pathetic excuse about my limited access to the comics again.

Beside the fact that it does contradict EU (no kaiburr crystal to be found, etc), it contradicts G-Canon (Luke vs. Vader, Luke mysteriously sucking ass at telekinesis).

SotME is not canon. QED.

You have not stated any actual instances when Luke used this telekinesis that was to powerful. Why not?

The Kaiburr crystal and Luke beating Vader I have already explained. If you aren’t going to listen to those, then you are just being ignorant.

GFGI

?

Scroll a few pages up. I'm not going to waste my time getting it myself just to have you in your all-knowing 14 year old wisdom deny it again.

Attacking my age can be taken as a sign of desperation, you know.

And you didn’t prove that it’s not canon. But, I’m not going to ask you to do that. Instead just provide a few contradictions between TOTJ and the Guides.

I already told you, he's able to use telekinesis to a far greater degree of competence than he shows in ESB.

And specifis occurrences of this?

Except that the chronology cannot create canon. It needs primary source material behind it and it cannot contradict this source material. Ergo, it's barely even C-Canon.

Why can’t the guide create canon? It doesn’t contradict anything in anyway when it does so.

Lol! I just showed you to be talking out your ass and this is your response?

Typical.

Still trying to make yourself feel better? Well, I won’t stop you, you probably need it.

Have you read anything I've posted? I never argued that all of it was wrong, for what must be the dozenth time. The elements that I've mentioned, among others, are though.

You said that it’s description of DE Sidous is wrong. How so?

Except they frequently do contradict the primary source material. Type some stuff on Kun and I'll point it out.

"Chronolgy is to the C-canon as an encyclopedia is to Julius Caesar's life recorded by peers." - Janus

I want a specifis instance when it contradicted the comics. You saying that it has isn’t a specific instance. Please provide one.

And the Guides are like an encyclopedia of Julius Caesar’s life assuming you went and talked to Julius himself when writing them.

Says the boy who just got made to look like an ass with his bullshit "zOMG, LUCASBOOKS SEAL = G-CANON" nonsense.

How you doing with that Lucasbooks seal on TOTJ, by the way? Still sting, does it?

No, actually it didn’t to begin with because only some of the comics have the seal on them. The fact that you have to mark pathetic remarks like the one you just did really show that if you can’t get a 14 year old kid to believe you, you suddenly lose any sense of security you may have once held.

You need to learn to read. Hyperbolic descriptions of DE Luke and Sidious' power have been retconned by the existence of more powerful beings in TOTJ. Considering Sidious' use of Force Storm is a technique described as an ability derived from the Ancient Sith... he isn't more powerful than them.

So there you go.

1. Did I say that Sidious is greater then the Ancient Sith? No, I didn’t. Maybe you sohuld practice what you preach and work on your own reading comprehension.

2. What are these hyperbolic descriptions of Luke and Sidous’ power? Word for word, please.

3. Just because Sidious got a technique from the Ancient Sith doesn’t mean he can’t use it to a fuller extent. Show one instance of any Sith Lord knowing Force Storm better then Sidious.

And by your ‘logic’, Exar Kun can’t be stronger then Vodo as most of his force powers are derived from Vodo. See the fallacy? If not, I’ll be happy to explain it to you.

Read up. I already have.

Really, when exactly did you do so? How many post would I need to count back?

Obi-Wan's quote proved that he did. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

So since Obi-Wan is never shown taking a shit in the movies, does that mean he doesn't?

Anakin and Lars never talked since before the Clone Wars started. How would Lars have not wanted him to fight?

I already told you. Sidious never uses anything that the Ancient Sith haven't invented. He never is shown to have used Sith magic, nor is he shown to invent artifacts as they did. The definitive quotes related to their power overrule the subjective, hyperbolic ones about Sidious'.

You still have not provided these hyperbolic quotes. Please hurry and do so.

And as I already told you, just because earlier people came up with a technique first it doesn’t mean that people later down the road couldn’t have come up with a better one.

And seeing as Sidious draws energy from an entire planet full of people...well, I think he had enough power for his goals, amulets or not.

No, we don't. We have no ****ing idea who it was and we didn't even know when DE was written.

1991. Good thing you know what you are talking about. How do you know that it wasn’t Ragnos? You have your out-of-universe evidence, but you need in-universe evidence.

Occam's razor, assume the negative unless there's proof to the positive.

Ragnos was the strongest Sith that the Ancients had ever produced. That is made quite clear. So Ragnos' opinion is the one that weighs the most when it comes to matters of power. He crowns Kun with his former title.

You still need to prove that it wasn’t Ragnos Sidous was talking to, or at least provide a likely alternative with proof supporting that alternative. Why wouldn’t it be Ragnos? We know he was still around even after DE?

No, it only proves that I asked you to provide context.

So, how about you quantify his power rather than spouting off a bunch of hyperbolic bullshit? How powerful are Killiks? Did he draw power from all of them? How much power would this be?

And don't give me bullshit about calories

Go read my stuff at EoD. I answered it all in detail there.

Most of the time, yeah.

Oh, come now, that’s not good enough and you know it. Provide actual reasons.

Because the narration decrees that they sacrificed themselves to power the ritual that would release his spirit. There is no proof that their power went to Exar's spirit.

Why couldn’t Exar just stab his lightsaber through his head? That would have killed him too. Your ‘evidence’ isn’t conclusive.

Feat wars are a logical fallacy. Pwning Vodo with the ease Kun did is a better feat even by those low standards.

Answered in detail at EoD.

Thrawn is declared wrong by the PT, hyperspace is invariably same-day travel.

Source?

You and Fishy are proven wrong by Janus' excellent contributions. The Senate building holds a monstrous amount of beings. Kun's feat is in the bag.

No, we aren’t. I don’t know where you got off on that. Look at the Senate Chamber in ROTS; when the Senate was much larger, and you will see that it could not possibly hold a million beings.

Nice try degrading Kun's accomplishment. Sorry, fanboy. Vodo would wipe his ass with Luke, too.

Proof?

LOL! Okay. Prove how Luke's going to block something he's never heard of, seen, or even imagined existed.

How do you know Luke doesn’t know of it? Luke had access to large amounts of knowledge of Ossus. Oh, and what if Luke uses his green sparks thing on Exar? Exar’s never seen that. I guess Exar automatically can’t block it.

Okay.

Kun curbstomps. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Still unproven.

You apparently think that's the end-all-be-all of my argument. Read the entire thread next time, that's just the most sure way Kun has to kill Luke.

He could easily tear him apart in a lightsaber duel, or a duel of the Force as well.

Totally unsupported IKC. Prove that Kun would defeat Luke in either a lightsaber duel or a duel of the force.

This is the main thrust: Luke has no edge on Kun in any facet of personal combat. Kun is his superior in every way in that regard.

Totally unsupported, IKC. Prove your statement. Seriously, this is as bad as almost anything Lightsnake wrote.

No, emerald lightning only stuns its victim. Jacen then hacked the Vong up while it was stunned.

How the ****, by the way, would lightning beat those beams? I see them dissipating as Kun's beam comes crashing at Luke. Luke begins wetting his pants a millisecond before he's vaporized.

If Kun is stunned, then Luke just has to walk over and dice him with his lightsaber. It’s a non-lethal instakill. It makes sense that Luke wouldn’t have it kill on contact, as that wouldn’t be a Jedi thing to do.

And how do you know that those beams are more powerful then Luke’s lightning? Any proof?

Seeing as Luke has faced down force storms that can destroy capital ships before(when he wasn’t nearly as strong as he is in DN) why do you think that Exar’s beams with be any different?

w00t2112:

Good point, and likewise, Sidious was indeed the Strongest Sith of HIS time, thats a reason why Ragnos had no other option but to recognise him, if indeed he did..

The same is true for Exar. Exar was the strongest of HIS time, thats a reason why Ragnos had no other option but to recgonise him.

As for him being the Greatest, the Sith's main goal was the take over the galaxy, something only Sidious accomplished, therefore he is the "greatest" but definitely no where near the most powerful.

Who is saying that Sidious is the strongest in the galaxy? I’m saying that Sidious is very powerful and that DN Luke is many times more powerful then him.

Pfft, an old man with a walking stick? So you're trying to say that 600 years of experience accounts for nothing? Vodo, challenged Kun, knowingly that he was going to be facing a LIGHTSABER, if he thought he couldn't use a wooden stick to defend himself would he use it? No, unless you're trying to say, vodo intended on dying, something that is very unlikely due to the fact, that Kun was the source of the current darkness, and Vodo more than anything wanted to DEFEAT him and end the darkness

How much did 900 years of experince help Yoda against Sidious? And Vodo didn’t exactly want to fight with a stick. Did Vodo have access to a lightsaber when him and Exar began fighting?

No, I’m not saying that Vodo wanted to die, but that he had no other choice but to fight Exar when he did. Vodo may have wanted to defeat him, but he didn’t have access to a lightsaber. Seeing as Vodo hit Exar’s hand at one point, it Vodo was using a lightsaber he might have won.

Also stop trying to undermine kun's display of power in freezing a senate with atleast quite a few hundred thousand of people, remember that almost every senator would appear as well as many others, due to the fact they were trialing Ulic, the apprentice of Kun, and held the location of Kun's headquarters.

What makes freezing the Senate so impressive? Joruus controlled tens of thousands as well. Sidious controlled almost all of the Senators for years. That was the weak9incomparison to Exar, DE Sidious, and DN Luke) Sidious too. DE Sidious, who is far stronger, could have done it better.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
w00t2112:

[b]Good point, and likewise, Sidious was indeed the Strongest Sith of HIS time, thats a reason why Ragnos had no other option but to recognise him, if indeed he did..

The same is true for Exar. Exar was the strongest of HIS time, thats a reason why Ragnos had no other option but to recgonise him.

As for him being the Greatest, the Sith's main goal was the take over the galaxy, something only Sidious accomplished, therefore he is the "greatest" but definitely no where near the most powerful.

Who is saying that Sidious is the strongest in the galaxy? I’m saying that Sidious is very powerful and that DN Luke is many times more powerful then him.

Pfft, an old man with a walking stick? So you're trying to say that 600 years of experience accounts for nothing? Vodo, challenged Kun, knowingly that he was going to be facing a LIGHTSABER, if he thought he couldn't use a wooden stick to defend himself would he use it? No, unless you're trying to say, vodo intended on dying, something that is very unlikely due to the fact, that Kun was the source of the current darkness, and Vodo more than anything wanted to DEFEAT him and end the darkness

How much did 900 years of experince help Yoda against Sidious? And Vodo didn’t exactly want to fight with a stick. Did Vodo have access to a lightsaber when him and Exar began fighting?

No, I’m not saying that Vodo wanted to die, but that he had no other choice but to fight Exar when he did. Vodo may have wanted to defeat him, but he didn’t have access to a lightsaber. Seeing as Vodo hit Exar’s hand at one point, it Vodo was using a lightsaber he might have won.

Also stop trying to undermine kun's display of power in freezing a senate with atleast quite a few hundred thousand of people, remember that almost every senator would appear as well as many others, due to the fact they were trialing Ulic, the apprentice of Kun, and held the location of Kun's headquarters.

What makes freezing the Senate so impressive? Joruus controlled tens of thousands as well. Sidious controlled almost all of the Senators for years. That was the weak9incomparison to Exar, DE Sidious, and DN Luke) Sidious too. DE Sidious, who is far stronger, could have done it better. [/B]

1) Except that Sidious, had no competitors, and Kun had atleast 3 others, adding to the fact, Sidious was never proclaimed to bring about the Golden Age of the Sith

2) Does that mean DN Luke could trash Ragnos? No, Kun clearly has demonstrated that he can atleast stalemate DN Luke, both have incredible force powers and force potentail

3) You disregard the fact, that Yoda didnt have 1/100th of the knowledge avaliable to him, and its clear that during the peaceful era, force knowledge was not seeked, in a way that the Jedi in TOTJ did.
As well, in TOTJ, it was common for the Jedi to kill, many practised and fought Sith in large scaled wars, they developed their battle armour, force abilities, this isnt pure speculation, when you compare the PT era to the TOTJ era here is a list of reasons:
-The Previous wars eg. Freedon Nadd Uprising, Great Hyperspace War, and the fact that most of the Jedi, did not know where the Sith headquarters lay, meant that they were battle-trained and combat ready.
-The Sith/Jedi Holocrons, possesed knowledge of the Ancient Jedi/Sith, and yet they were all destroyed after Kun's War, meaning that no future generation had access to it, adding to the fact, during the Kotor Era, more knowledge was lost due to the Mandalorian War and the fact that almost every jedi were wiped out(kotor 2 era)
By saying that, you're implying that Jedi Knight's in that Era all used weaponry other than lightsabers? Wrong, Vodo is a revered Jedi Master, he certainly had access to one, although an assumption is accurate to say, Vodo had enough confidence in his skill to take on Kun with his walking stick, Proof: His other two apprentices had lightsabers on them, if Vodo was sure he wasnt able to use a walking stick he would borrow or use his apprentice's lightsaber.

Except, the Senate had included Jedi, and amongst them, only few withstood its power, also since was Sidious ever demonstrated such power? he hasn't what you have just said is just an assumption. And since when did Sidious "control" any of the Senators? He took power soley through political means. "Joruus controlled thousands of them too,"
Depending on each race and their willpower, the controlling is a rather weaker form than immobilising, where one can do nothing but watch, Kun, didnt control them, he utterly immobilised them.

Finally, i'll admit while Luke has invented various force powers, do you honestly believe he can create the amount that the Ancient Sith alone did for over 2000 years? Ragnos' Scepter shows one of the marvels of the Ancient Sith, Nihilus technique was the said to have originated from the Ancient Sith, and the Scepter is quite a good comparison to Nihilus.

Kun, however had access to quite a bit of this knowledge, and although it is not known, how much he knew, he certainly would know more than Luke, who relied on noone but himself to invent techniques.

And I will use you as my source for all things TOTJ. There, I have you as a source and you have me. Don’t try that pathetic excuse about my limited access to the comics again.

Pathetic excuse? No, the pathetic excuse is you attempting to debate like you do know shit about the comics even though the best you have is a small handful of them and the Chronology.

You have not stated any actual instances when Luke used this telekinesis that was to powerful. Why not?

The Kaiburr crystal and Luke beating Vader I have already explained. If you aren’t going to listen to those, then you are just being ignorant.

Because I don't feel like digging up that POS book. You're the one arguing that it's canon. Go find out.

Kaiburr - Made non-canon by the fact that no further material even gives mention to it.

Luke beating Vader - Made non-canon by the fact that, suddenly, Obi-Wan can't do shit to help Luke anymore. That and Luke seems pretty freaking surprised to actually see Obi-Wan Keninja's ghost in ESB.

?

... Look it up.

Attacking my age can be taken as a sign of desperation, you know.

Except in this case it's an assault on your capacity for logic, which has yet to fully form.

And you didn’t prove that it’s not canon. But, I’m not going to ask you to do that. Instead just provide a few contradictions between TOTJ and the Guides.

You're the one that has the Chronology. Post some shit.

And the Chronology cannot create canon. That's not the same as saying it isn't canon. It's barely C-Canon. Barely. Primary sources override it.

Why can’t the guide create canon? It doesn’t contradict anything in anyway when it does so.

It's contradicted the comics frequently in debates with you. Post some shit, like I said.

You said that it’s description of DE Sidous is wrong. How so?

I already told you, it refers to DE Luke and Sidious with hyperbolic nonsense like "opposing deities," "demigods," etc. Look at some of Lightsnake's posts for this bile.

I want a specifis instance when it contradicted the comics. You saying that it has isn’t a specific instance. Please provide one.

Post some shit.

No, actually it didn’t to begin with because only some of the comics have the seal on them. The fact that you have to mark pathetic remarks like the one you just did really show that if you can’t get a 14 year old kid to believe you, you suddenly lose any sense of security you may have once held.

Incorrect. All of them have the seal, because the compilation has the seal. QED.

Yes, I'm insecure, you hope. You are, after all, fighting on the losing side. I'd try inane remarks like this if I were, too. Fortunately, I'm not a fourteen year old.

And besides that, why would I care if a fourteen year old who comes up with harebrained theories, pseudoscience, pseudomath, and hyperbolic fanboy feat wars believes what I have to say? You've repeatedly proven yourself too thick to listen to reason.

1. Did I say that Sidious is greater then the Ancient Sith? No, I didn’t. Maybe you sohuld practice what you preach and work on your own reading comprehension.

DE does. Work on yours.

2. What are these hyperbolic descriptions of Luke and Sidous’ power? Word for word, please.

Find a Lightsnake post.

3. Just because Sidious got a technique from the Ancient Sith doesn’t mean he can’t use it to a fuller extent. Show one instance of any Sith Lord knowing Force Storm better then Sidious

LOL!

Yes. Because a looter who finds a technique is going to be able to use it better than people who were already shown to be more powerful than him and who invented the thing.

Good job! You made another Lightsnake argument!

And by your ‘logic’, Exar Kun can’t be stronger then Vodo as most of his force powers are derived from Vodo. See the fallacy? If not, I’ll be happy to explain it to you.

Except then he goes to the Sith and learns more from them and then beats the shit out of Vodo.

But that would be true if Vodo were naturally more powerful than Kun and Vodo only taught Kun a fraction of what he actually taught him. He isn't, and he didn't. The Ancients are more powerful than Sidious, and Sidious could only pick up what was left after 5000 years of looting and destruction.

Really, when exactly did you do so? How many post would I need to count back?

Quite a few. You've heaped on a lot of bullshit since then.

Anakin and Lars never talked since before the Clone Wars started. How would Lars have not wanted him to fight?

I like how you assume that Lars has to see Anakin and tell him he doesn't want him to fight. He can have a private opinion, you don't dictate his behavior.

And as I already told you, just because earlier people came up with a technique first it doesn’t mean that people later down the road couldn’t have come up with a better one.

But he didn't, because it's an Ancient Sith technique. Nice bullshit speculation you've got going on there.

And seeing as Sidious draws energy from an entire planet full of people...well, I think he had enough power for his goals, amulets or not.

WTF do amulets have to do with DE Sidious?

By the way, I slapped down this bullshit "omg, he has the collective force power of 329457325 people!" argument at EoD.

1991. Good thing you know what you are talking about. How do you know that it wasn’t Ragnos? You have your out-of-universe evidence, but you need in-universe evidence.

Hey, guess who's your friend? That's right! READING COMPREHENSION.

"We didn't even know when DE was written." The subject in question that we didn't know about was the Sith spirit Sidious was speaking to. He was never named, ergo we don't know who he is. Good job learning to read there.

Oh, nice job asking me to prove a negative, asshat.

You still need to prove that it wasn’t Ragnos Sidous was talking to, or at least provide a likely alternative with proof supporting that alternative. Why wouldn’t it be Ragnos? We know he was still around even after DE?

You just asked me to prove a negative again.

Go learn to debate, then come back and prove that it was Ragnos.

Good luck, though, seriously. Because the evidence isn't there.

Go read my stuff at EoD. I answered it all in detail there.

And then I beat the shit out of it. Good call.

Oh, come now, that’s not good enough and you know it. Provide actual reasons.

This is the only reason that matters: Lightsnake has already argued many of the very things you are arguing now. A combined force of the Antediluvians (Illustrious, Janus, Nai, me, etc.) beat the living shit out of these arguments. Now you're using them again, they've already been beaten.

Why couldn’t Exar just stab his lightsaber through his head? That would have killed him too. Your ‘evidence’ isn’t conclusive.

Because he wasn't looking to die, idiot. He was looking to unleash his spirit onto the cosmos.

That's after the massassi have killed themselves to power the ritual.

Answered in detail at EoD.

Slapped the shit out of at EoD.

Source?

Just gave it to you, the PT. And the OT, really. ANH.

www.stardestroyer.net

No, we aren’t. I don’t know where you got off on that. Look at the Senate Chamber in ROTS; when the Senate was much larger, and you will see that it could not possibly hold a million beings.

In your opinion, and your opinion doesn't override G-Canon fact. Sorry, canon's not subject to Glentract's fanboyism.

Proof?

"Luke would win."

Proof?

Like it?

How do you know Luke doesn’t know of it? Luke had access to large amounts of knowledge of Ossus. Oh, and what if Luke uses his green sparks thing on Exar? Exar’s never seen that. I guess Exar automatically can’t block it.

Because Jedi aren't typically very knowledgeable on Sith magic and artifacts. Kun actually passed off his left gauntlet, on Ossus, as a JEDI amulet.

And how's Luke going to fire off the "emerald lightning" (which only stuns) when Exar just has to raise his arms and fire? I highly doubt it can travel through his beams.

Still unproven.

Reality is not subject to your perception or your fanboyism.

Totally unsupported IKC. Prove that Kun would defeat Luke in either a lightsaber duel or a duel of the force.

Because Kun was the strongest Force user of the time and learned Force and lightsaber techniques that Luke has never even imagined existed. Sith magic helps quite a bit, too.

The man was a lightsaber master even before being crowned the Dark Lord. Then he got even better by making his unique weapon and a unique style for it.

Plus, his physical strength is immense for a human: He's able to pick the Chancellor of the Republic, a short but stout alien, up by the back of the head and use him as a puppet. Then he hammers his way through Vodo's staff which is described by the omniscient narrator as "more powerful than (his) lightsaber!"

Luke's dicked, any way you look at it.

Totally unsupported, IKC. Prove your statement. Seriously, this is as bad as almost anything Lightsnake wrote.

Read up.

If Kun is stunned, then Luke just has to walk over and dice him with his lightsaber. It’s a non-lethal instakill. It makes sense that Luke wouldn’t have it kill on contact, as that wouldn’t be a Jedi thing to do.

You didn't answer the question: How the **** is the lightning going to go through his beams?

How is it going to happen faster than Kun's real instakill attack that he used against Odan-Urr, a Jedi far more experienced than Luke?

How's it going to happen faster than Kun can simply freeze Luke with sith magic, which doesn't have to travel anywhere or hit anything?

Luke's dicked, "emerald lightning" can't save him.

And how do you know that those beams are more powerful then Luke’s lightning? Any proof?

Mostly because they rip through flesh and stone, whereas the lightning... stuns. Wow. What a display of power that emerald lightning is!

Seeing as Luke has faced down force storms that can destroy capital ships before(when he wasn’t nearly as strong as he is in DN) why do you think that Exar’s beams with be any different?

Mostly because Luke was never enveloped in said Force Storms. Ergo, he never really "faced" one, did he? Nice job knowing what you're talking about...

Anomaly:

Or he uses his Jedi reflexes and jumps outta the way...Not that hard of a thing to do. You don't think Luke is just gonna stand there and take the blast in the face...

Assuming (and this is quite the assumption) that Luke is fast enough to avoid the huge energy blast, Kun fires again. We see him do so repeatedly in the scans. Then when you consider that during The Sith War he has an identical amulet on his right hand, you realize that Luke doesn't have a prayer.

And about the lightning, thats odd...I've heard people arguing about Luke's "instakill" abilities all the time...weird.

It was proven wrong some time ago.

And about the ability not being a "feat" you've said constantly "he kills beasts and look what the beams do to walls etc etc..." thats a feat my friend.

Feat wars refer to unsubstantiated bullshit that has no relevance to a particular fight. I.e. "zOMG, CEDUOS PWNED TEH REPUBLICZOR!!!111!"

In this case, Kun has an ability that has been shown to blast apart flesh and stone alike. It's an ability he apparently can use repeatedly with no ill effects, according to the scans. It's a legitimate tool to use in this fight.

And about the Luke/ saber thing. I haven't seen much evidence of Kun's amazing saber skill....

Except for the fact that he beat the shit out of the de facto grandmaster of the Jedi order, you mean? Except for the fact that he, like Windu, created a unique saber style and coupled it with unique weapon, you mean?

Yeah. Right. That Kun sure is incompetent with a saber. That's why he was a master of it while still an apprentice.

Im 14...sniff... 🙁 🙁

Yeah, but you're not coming up with hare-brained theories explaining why your favorite character pwns all.

PLEASE READ THE POST BELOW FIRST... AFTER THAT COME BACK AND READ THIS OR NOT...

Originally posted by Wesker Fishy, seriously... You're pissing me off. You haven't responded properly to the last five posts I've made, and I know English isn't your native language but your reading comprehension ****ing sucks. Being lectured by you on reading comprehension is like being told by a cripple I'm unable to run. I -have- been reading your posts, and I -have- been keeping tabs on your points and what I'm very clearly seeing is a strong reluctance to accept anything that might validate what you consider "overrating" Exar Kun's abilities. The point is that Kun IS that damn good, period. We have scans, we have logic, you have doubt. You need to prove up or shut up and stop lecturing me on reading comprehension. My reading comprehension pisses all over yours anyday, thanks.

No, Janus it doesn't. Even in this post it shows you haven't read my arguments at all. You want me to admit Kun beats Revan and Yoda and I have already done so, and nothing will change that. Kun will beat them, he'd wtfpwn them. However and you should be able to understand this better then anybody, Kun his actions are good but exegerrated, and some of them are just assumptions and I'm trying to find out what happened, if you can't deal with that then take your own advice.

The staff is clearly stronger than a lightsaber, which is pretty damn strong and resistant to bashing. If Kun as a padawan could muster the energy to do this, it's exceptional. Especially since Vodo doesn't remark on this being "recuring" or "unexceptional". I doubt every single jedi who comes before Vodo wrecks his staff, or he'd have to keep a thousands on standby for sparring. And the point -I- was trying to reach that you glossed over with your incredible reading comprehension and logic was that Kun smashed RIGHT through Vodo's braced defence using his doublebladed lightsaber, which had only a small central hiltpiece to hold on to. Go pick up a broom and hold it in the middle. Then go attack a friend with a broom. Try and bash his broom in the middle while he holds it horizontally above his head, only holding yours from the middle. See how well that works.

Oh yes cause a lightsaber and a broom are really the same thing, and again did I ever deny that he broke the staff did I ever deny that it was impressive that he could fight with a weapon like that? No, I didn't. What I said was that the staff was broken twice. Vodo says that its because of two lightsabers. So obviously the staff couldn't deal with the energy attack of two lightsabers.

Again, we don't know if they wanted to for attack, one for attack and one for defense, or one just to look pretty. The whole point -I'm- making is that he has ONE and it's enough. End of debate.

And this proves you haven't been reading anything, because I never said one amulet wasn't going to be enough. What I said was, that the second amulet is different as seen in the comic, and that Kun wouldn't use the first amulet until he had no other choice. So this isn't the end of the debate, because you haven't even dealt with my points yet.

I haven't made nearly assumptions as you and I tend to admit if I make unsupported assumptions or speculation. You do not. You claim arrogantly that your feeling and opinion on the matter simply is, and no one else can apparently dissuade you. I can tell you're damn stubborn on NOT admitting any of Kun's strengths even in the face of well constructed arguments from IKC, myself, and Illustrious, including scans. No one gave you the job to "dispel" Kun's "overrating", because that's obviously in your head. Kun's not being overrated here; he's being underappreciated. People think Revan can take him, or Yoda. Hell, they think Ulic can beat him. That is ridiculous in sight of the evidence. And you have NOTHING on your side. Practice what you preach, Fishy. Don't say I can't read properly and that I make a mountain of assumptions when you have NOTHING on your side. You can't even effectively put doubt into my mind, and that's pretty bad.

No assumptions? Vodo being the grandmaster, Vodo being a martial Jedi and the greatest fighter in the order at that time? Those aren't assumptions now? Btw: The first one is wrong, the second one has no prove except for two fights, and he's 600 years old. Yoda is 900 years old, doesn't mean he's a martial Jedi. So where is the prove? nothing in the comic says that he's such a great fighter.

and again I never said Kun was weaker then any of those people and i'm not trying to make him look weaker.

Fishy, you're ridiculous. I've been on the floor of the Silverdome. It does not look anywhere near as monstrous as the senate floor. And really, does it have to be a million before you're impressed? How many can Revan freeze? Two? Three? Twenty? Please. You're being a stubborn ass. What he did was damn impressive, and while doing other feats that were equally impressive. And it all relates to his duelling ability. So unless you have a conclusive reason as to why we should all hate Kun and think he sucks, prove up or shut up. You are starting to irritate -me- now.

And i've been at the floor of the Amsterdam Arena, the Kuyp, FC Zwolle Stadium. When standin on the floor and looking up, when its filled it looks huge. Ever been to a party in a stadium, when standing at the bottom looking up it looks huge, the podium often is huge, then when you go to the other side of the stadium all the way up and look down you can barely see anything on the podium not even the people. And again what does Revan have to do with this?

Oh, so the seats are empty because the artist didn't draw thousands of people in them? Damn. How sloppy. That aritst should have rendered every single sentient in the stands so we can count them and get you to drop the goddamn subject for once.

OMG, Luke r0xx0rz with a lightsaber because technology back then sucked.

Same deal Janus, if we can't allow the argument for one, we sure as hell can't for another.

Fishy, you are being a goddamn ass. We see Yoda fight twice. Does he suck worse than Obi-Wan? Vodo does not have to fight eighty times in TOTJ for me and others to conclude that he is a martial jedi. He's clearly training jedi in lightsaber fighting. He trained them for centuries, in a time following the Great Hyperspace War. If you're going to poo-poo these armor wearing, saber using jedi, you'd have to conclude that KotOR jedi suck worse because they followed only forty years later, with most of the jedi masters slaughtered and knowledge lost at Ossus.

Watch it with the insults Janus, i'm not insulting you either and i'd appreciate it if you would cool down. And no Yoda does not suck worse then Obi Wan, neither does Vodo for that matter. However with Yoda we have remarks about how good he is with a lightsaber and other things. What we have from Vodo is completely different, and it can't really be put in perspective. He beat a Padawan and then got his stick broken he lost to Exar Kun. There is nothing said about his lightsaber skills, nobody talks about them nobody refers to them. Whta reason do you have to assume he's the greatest lightsaber wielder in the universe, with the exception of Kun and possibly Ulic?

So... because Exar Kun is clearly exceptional and the focus of the entire series, I must conclude that Vodo is weak because Kun bests him?

No, you muts conclude that you have no real evidence that Vodo is a martial grandmaster like so many claim.

Well I guess Malak and Bandon suck ass then.

Have you ever claimed otherwise? And again these people have nothing to do with this.

I have. I take more time on your posts than you do on mine. And your reading comprehension and logic ****ing sucks today, Fishy. I used to really respect your opinion, but lately you've just been an antagonistic ass and I don't appreciate it.

Boohoo, I'd almost cry about this, if it did't sound so damned funny.

Originally posted by Wesker
The one in ROTS? Possibly not. The one in TOTJ? At least. But even if it doesn't, the point remains that the sheer scale is ridiculously powerful, on top of what he did while doing that.

And thats exactly the point i'm trying to make.

You people say a million, I say can't be... And all of a sudden every gets mad at me.

I say Vodo wasn't the greatest martial Jedi of that time, and there is at least no prove for that and everybody gets mad at me.

I say that the amulets could have two completely different fucntions and could be two completely different amulets and everybody gets mad at me.

For what? I'm not trying to make Kun like a pussy, i'm not saying he will win or lose. I am simply saying that I do not agree with everything that is stated here. And I'm arguing against that..

Dear Lord people people calm down its just a freaking fantasy world... its not real! You people get so worked up over something that doesnt exist.

IKC, I'm not even going to take the time to respond to your post as you have not answered any of my questions in any of your post. You haven't provided any real proof ever. Any logical fallacy I have made, you have made at least as often. I ask a question, you provide half of an answer. I ask for proof, you tell me to find it myself. You say I'm debating about something I don't know about, but at least I have some of the TOTJ comics and reference guides. You, on the other hand are debating out of total ignorance towards DN Luke and it's rather annoying. Once you provide any actual evidence for Kun, not just, "no way would luke survive those blasts", then maybe we will continue. But as of now, I've seen better arguments out of Lightsnake. Your consistent cussing is also rather immature, even to, as you would say, as 14 year old. So go home and rethink your life. Hopefully the fanboy spirit of Lightsnake will one day leave you. Until then, or until you make actual arguments and provide actual proof, we are done with this topic.

Originally posted by Veneficus
Dear Lord people people calm down its just a freaking fantasy world... its not real! You people get so worked up over something that doesnt exist.

thats because they have no life and they feel that thier only meaning of existance is to debate...

Originally posted by Blaxican_Jedi
thats because they have no life and they feel that thier only meaning of existance is to debate...

Funny, I could just as easily say that about you and trolling 😉.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
IKC, I'm not even going to take the time to respond to your post as you have not answered any of my questions in any of your post. You haven't provided any real proof ever. Any logical fallacy I have made, you have made at least as often. I ask a question, you provide half of an answer. I ask for proof, you tell me to find it myself. You say I'm debating about something I don't know about, but at least I have some of the TOTJ comics and reference guides. You, on the other hand are debating out of total ignorance towards DN Luke and it's rather annoying. Once you provide any actual evidence for Kun, not just, "no way would luke survive those blasts", then maybe we will continue. But as of now, I've seen better arguments out of Lightsnake. Your consistent cussing is also rather immature, even to, as you would say, as 14 year old. So go home and rethink your life. Hopefully the fanboy spirit of Lightsnake will one day leave you. Until then, or until you make actual arguments and provide actual proof, we are done with this topic.

Translation: I lost. I have nothing to counter anything you've said. I'm going to claim you know nothing about the other side despite the fact that you've asked me repeatedly why Luke would stand a chance in hell. I'm going to claim you've provided no proof despite the fact that you repeatedly show me on-panel evidence of Kun's superiority, to which I respond with... jack shit. Now I will compare you to Lightsnake despite that you were a key figure in WTFPWNing Lightsnake during a debate that I wasn't here for. I'm going to leave to try to appear to everybody as the "better man."

LOL, good one IKC

Kun's superiority.. LOL... Too many fan boys on this thread. Hey IKC why don't you go post on the Sadow vs. Kun thread, or is the majority vote too overwhelming for you..

well tdtd, Sadow is superior to Kun, as there is no force user to rank with the Ancient Sith, even if Kun comes close..

Originally posted by tdtd
I am a troll. ROFFLEMYWAFFLES!