DN Luke vs Exar Kun

Originally posted by Fishy
Kun did that as a Padawan too... The stick isn't all powerful you know, and Vodo isn't the only that used a stick either btw:

Actually, the staff IS pointed out to be stronger than a lightsaber by the narrator. I consider that evidence enough. The fact that Kun smashed right through one effortlessly with no balance or leverage on his lightsaber is damn incredible.

And I never ever claimed that DN Luke would beat Kun or that Revan would beat Kun and I am not claiming it now. I am simply saying that perhaps the amulet isn't as powerful as we think, and that the second amulet isn't the same as the first. That is what I am arguing, i'm not even arguing the winner of this fight. I'm just trying to clear up some wrong idea's about Kun his power. Or at least to see if I can.

I would assume that both amulets are similar in function. And I'd like to point out that all ancient Sith Lords apparently have them, from Marka Ragnos to Naga Sadow to Kudo Kressh. Even if only one of those can replicate such blasts (Or perhaps do even more in the hands of someone who made it!) that is more than enough firepower to demolish most force users. In fact, the secondary glove may even work as an absorbtion artifact to counter such a generated attack, explaining why the ancient Sith didn't readily use it against one another. But I'm just speculating at this point. We know one of them was damn uber. The other one can possibly do the same.

And Janus, 500.000 people is still a hell of a lot more then we can see and logically guess at. That number is also based on an assumption, and if you look at the picture it doesn't even seem full.

That stadium, though poorly detailed, is about the size if not larger than the Pontiac Silverdome in Michigan, where I grew up. That is the location of THE largest indoor sporting event of all time, with numbers well into the hundred thousands (Though the exact number eludes me now.) The ancient Colliseum in Rome was thought to have housed between 500 and 750 hundred thousand people at a time, and it's smaller than this. Even if only half of that place is full (Which is ridiculous since all senators live on Coruscant most of the time and this is a time of war when all should attend) this is a LOT of people. And the fact that he effortlessly controlled them and WTFpwned the greatest jedi master in the era and walked out with his apprentice is goddamn uber.

Originally posted by Wesker
Actually, the staff IS pointed out to be stronger than a lightsaber by the narrator. I consider that evidence enough. The fact that Kun smashed right through one effortlessly with no balance or leverage on his lightsaber is damn incredible.

Yes it was more powerful then a lightsaber, as it could stand up to a lightsaber, it doesn't have the cutting power of a lightsaber however we know that much. Kun smashed through it twice.

Two lightsabers against my poor stick? It seems Vodo his stick could deal with one but not with two lightsaber attacks and thats what broke it...

I would assume that both amulets are similar in function. And I'd like to point out that all ancient Sith Lords apparently have them, from Marka Ragnos to Naga Sadow to Kudo Kressh. Even if only one of those can replicate such blasts (Or perhaps do even more in the hands of someone who made it!) that is more than enough firepower to demolish most force users. In fact, the secondary glove may even work as an absorbtion artifact to counter such a generated attack, explaining why the ancient Sith didn't readily use it against one another. But I'm just speculating at this point. We know one of them was damn uber. The other one can possibly do the same.

Indeed, its an assumption one that could be true, but one that has no real prove. I want to be sure on this matter...

That stadium, though poorly detailed, is about the size if not larger than the Pontiac Silverdome in Michigan, where I grew up. That is the location of THE largest indoor sporting event of all time, with numbers well into the hundred thousands (Though the exact number eludes me now.) The ancient Colliseum in Rome was thought to have housed between 500 and 750 hundred thousand people at a time, and it's smaller than this. Even if only half of that place is full (Which is ridiculous since all senators live on Coruscant most of the time and this is a time of war when all should attend) this is a LOT of people. And the fact that he effortlessly controlled them and WTFpwned the greatest jedi master in the era and walked out with his apprentice is goddamn uber.

You mean this pontiac silverdome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Silverdome

82.000 people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloseum

That coloseum able to seat 50.000 people

Thats not even close to a million, the pontiac would need to be 10x as big to come close, the coloseum 20x... It simply isn't.

And Coruscant had just been invaded if I were a senator I would leave. A lot of people would have died and people from other systems would have to travel there to join, not every senator lives on coruscant. In TPM Amidalla travels to Coruscant, she doesn't come there often. a 1000 years earlier, Empress Teta travels to Coruscant and back for meetings... Its not impossible that the times have changed in between that. But with hyperspace travel I see no reason for people to live there, or to be there constantly.

Also I wouldn't really say Vodo is the greatest Jedi of his time Odan Urr seems to be the grandmaster, and he doesn't seem to be the greatest lightsaber fighter either. If anything the Jedi Order was so completely different back then then it was only fourty years later that is hard to say what his rank was or skill compared to others. We do know however that Nomi became a legendary leader and that Odan Urr lead Jedi assembly's, they didn't even wait for Vodo in one of the most important one's around, so its seems doubtful that he would have really been the leader of the Jedi Order.

Yes it was more powerful then a lightsaber, as it could stand up to a lightsaber, it doesn't have the cutting power of a lightsaber however we know that much. Kun smashed through it twice.

Two lightsabers against my poor stick? It seems Vodo his stick could deal with one but not with two lightsaber attacks and thats what broke it...

Seems more a testament to Kun's ability than to Vodo's stick. It's canonically called "more powerful than a lightsaber." This does not necessarily mean more durable or more poignant than a lightsaber.

Indeed, its an assumption one that could be true, but one that has no real prove. I want to be sure on this matter...

One amulet had this ability, the ancient Sith were adorned with artifacts, most of them not even named or mentioned.

You mean this pontiac silverdome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Silverdome

82.000 people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloseum

That coloseum able to seat 50.000 people

Thats not even close to a million, the pontiac would need to be 10x as big to come close, the coloseum 20x... It simply isn't.

Neither of those are as large as the stadium in question. Just taking a look at the corner passageways, those are large stone corridors that look like nothing. The center field would be several times the size of a football field.

And Coruscant had just been invaded if I were a senator I would leave. A lot of people would have died and people from other systems would have to travel there to join, not every senator lives on coruscant. In TPM Amidalla travels to Coruscant, she doesn't come there often. a 1000 years earlier, Empress Teta travels to Coruscant and back for meetings... Its not impossible that the times have changed in between that. But with hyperspace travel I see no reason for people to live there, or to be there constantly.

Empress Teta had her own Empire to tend to, she usually didn't become involved in Coruscant's affairs. Sadow just happened to attack and nearly take out both Cinnagar and Corsucant.

Also I wouldn't really say Vodo is the greatest Jedi of his time Odan Urr seems to be the grandmaster, and he doesn't seem to be the greatest lightsaber fighter either. If anything the Jedi Order was so completely different back then then it was only fourty years later that is hard to say what his rank was or skill compared to others. We do know however that Nomi became a legendary leader and that Odan Urr lead Jedi assembly's, they didn't even wait for Vodo in one of the most important one's around, so its seems doubtful that he would have really been the leader of the Jedi Order.

If Odan-Urr was the grandmaster, that's even more interesting, as Kun took him out with a wave of his hand.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Seems more a testament to Kun's ability than to Vodo's stick. It's canonically called "more powerful than a lightsaber." This does not necessarily mean more durable or more poignant than a lightsaber.

Could be, but Kun as a Padawan destroyed that stick... Sorry but Kun as a Padawan wasn't nearly as impressive as he became later on, so really it doesn't speak much for Vodo his stick. And he does say his poor stick can't stand against two lightsabers, so its far more likely the power of two lightsabers, which is kinda what broke his stick again later on.

One amulet had this ability, the ancient Sith were adorned with artifacts, most of them not even named or mentioned.

Exactly my point, how could we know what the second does if we never see it do the same things as the first, but we do see it do different things. Why would the Sith carry around a billion artifacts that all do the same thing? It has no purpose.

Neither of those are as large as the stadium in question. Just taking a look at the corner passageways, those are large stone corridors that look like nothing. The center field would be several times the size of a football field.

see this picture? thats the Amsterdam Arena, houses about 50.000 people at a typical match, see the goal at the end of the field, you can't even see the keeper there... The players although you can see the colours on there shirts are hardly indentifable, this is a stadium that can house 20x less people then the estimated number of the senate, its also taken half way down and not from the top, like the senate picture was... I wouldn't call it much bigger if bigger at all, let alone stand so much bigger that it can house a million senators plus guards...

Empress Teta had her own Empire to tend to, she usually didn't become involved in Coruscant's affairs. Sadow just happened to attack and nearly take out both Cinnagar and Corsucant.

Padmé, Bail Organa? The senators still represent their home planets, a senator would have to have a lot of contact with there home planet, and not all senators would do so through a holocron. Many would live on Coruscant and many would not.

If Odan-Urr was the grandmaster, that's even more interesting, as Kun took him out with a wave of his hand.

Yes, very impressive indeed. although I would be hesitant to call him grandmaster or anybody else in that time really. The Jedi seems to have undergone sone huge reforms since the end of the Sith wars. Nomi her speech at Exis station was probably the start for that.. 30 years later the entire Jedi Order is changed, more centralized with control less spread. For the first time with a real council...

Originally posted by Fishy
Yes it was more powerful then a lightsaber, as it could stand up to a lightsaber, it doesn't have the cutting power of a lightsaber however we know that much. Kun smashed through it twice.

Two lightsabers against my poor stick? It seems Vodo his stick could deal with one but not with two lightsaber attacks and thats what broke it...

Nice image. Too bad that isn't the one where Kun killed Vodo. In that one he smashed right through the staff with just his double bladed lightsaber, which has one small handle.

Indeed, its an assumption one that could be true, but one that has no real prove. I want to be sure on this matter...

Again, missing the point. He has one that's that uber. If he can possibly make two, that's just disgusting. But one's enough.

You mean this pontiac silverdome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Silverdome

82.000 people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloseum

That coloseum able to seat 50.000 people

Thats not even close to a million, the pontiac would need to be 10x as big to come close, the coloseum 20x... It simply isn't.

Aside from the fact that you're still overemphasizing the numbers issue, the Pontiac Silverdome isn't really -that- big inside like this place is. I've been there. You can still see the details of people's faces more than halfway up. The comic scan shows an angel hanging just above the senate room, and you can't even see anyone standing in the middle of the floor. You could be hanging in the rafters at the Silverdome and still see such detail (After all, many of the highest costing boxes are up higher than I was sitting). Also, unlike the Silverdome, this place is more square or rectangular. There's plenty of room for such people. Take a look at this close up of the Chancellor's podium, the thing in the middle:

Likewise, this place is filled to the brim:

And Coruscant had just been invaded if I were a senator I would leave.

You're not a senator. Moot observation.

A lot of people would have died and people from other systems would have to travel there to join, not every senator lives on coruscant. In TPM Amidalla travels to Coruscant, she doesn't come there often. a 1000 years earlier, Empress Teta travels to Coruscant and back for meetings... Its not impossible that the times have changed in between that. But with hyperspace travel I see no reason for people to live there, or to be there constantly.

Actually, considering the events that had taken place, it would be ludicrous for most of the senators to NOT be on Coruscant. They were punishing a former jedi for war crimes.

Also I wouldn't really say Vodo is the greatest Jedi of his time Odan Urr seems to be the grandmaster, and he doesn't seem to be the greatest lightsaber fighter either. If anything the Jedi Order was so completely different back then then it was only fourty years later that is hard to say what his rank was or skill compared to others. We do know however that Nomi became a legendary leader and that Odan Urr lead Jedi assembly's, they didn't even wait for Vodo in one of the most important one's around, so its seems doubtful that he would have really been the leader of the Jedi Order.

Vodo is visibly the best fighter and has an amazing control of the force. This has been done to the death in another thread. Later on when I have the time I'll reiterate this, but it's been established pretty securely that Vodo is above Yoda by far and head and shoulders above even his elder peers. You saying "you don't think" he's great doesn't convince anyone, so please try to substantiate in the future.

Originally posted by Wesker
Nice image. Too bad that isn't the one where Kun killed Vodo. In that one he smashed right through the staff with just his double bladed lightsaber, which has one small handle.

No its an image where Kun smashed through Vodo his stick... As a Padawan with two lightsabers, which proves my point.

Again, missing the point. He has one that's that uber. If he can possibly make two, that's just disgusting. But one's enough.

again missing the point, why would he create a second identical amulet? Why would any Sith for that matter whats the purpose?

Aside from the fact that you're still overemphasizing the numbers issue, the Pontiac Silverdome isn't really -that- big inside like this place is. I've been there. You can still see the details of people's faces more than halfway up. The comic scan shows an angel hanging just above the senate room, and you can't even see anyone standing in the middle of the floor. You could be hanging in the rafters at the Silverdome and still see such detail (After all, many of the highest costing boxes are up higher than I was sitting). Also, unlike the Silverdome, this place is more square or rectangular. There's plenty of room for such people. Take a look at this close up of the Chancellor's podium, the thing in the middle:

I'm debating the million people thing, I am tired of people overrating certain actions while downplaying others just for the heck of it because it supports them. I am simply saying there couldn't have been a million people there.

And what do those pictures prove? That a Stadium looks huge when your standing at the bottom no shit, and thats its really filled. Well another scan shows parts look empty, so that doesn't prove much..

You're not a senator. Moot observation.

I am a human being however with human emotions, and because of that I wouldn't have been there... There are probably some senators that feel the same way.

Actually, considering the events that had taken place, it would be ludicrous for most of the senators to NOT be on Coruscant. They were punishing a former jedi for war crimes.

And why would they need the entire Senate for that? If anything the chancellor has already said Ulic will be executed.

Vodo is visibly the best fighter and has an amazing control of the force. This has been done to the death in another thread. Later on when I have the time I'll reiterate this, but it's been established pretty securely that Vodo is above Yoda by far and head and shoulders above even his elder peers. You saying "you don't think" he's great doesn't convince anyone, so please try to substantiate in the future.

Visibly the best fighter? Tell me who have we seen Vodo fight except for Kun who he beat when Kun was a Padawan and then got his stcik broken and again Kun when he lost... How is that visibly the best fighter in the order, we have seen Nomi kill more then that. We have seen Thon do better that, Arca, Ulic, Cay... And all those guys fought nobody's... Until the Sith wars...

Originally posted by IKC
Glentract, have you read all of TOTJ?

Good job dodging the question. Answer it in your next post with a 'yes' or 'no' question, please.

I, unlike you, will answer you question the first time you ask. I have read parts of it. I also have the Essentail Guides, which even if they aren't a higher level of canon then the comics themselves(even though I do not believe they are a lower level) have not been shown to contradict the actual comics in any way. I would sure like to see your source that is official on the NJO and Dark Nest.

Originally posted by IKC
Nice condescension from a 14 year old, Glentract. I own the book and have read it; can you say as much?

Yes, the book has been owned by one person or another in my family for over 20 years. I have read it twice, actually, but the second time I read it was almost five years ago.

And even though I haven't read the book in years, I at least know the backround on the things in the book. Those things you called inconsistentcies really are not inconsistent with the rest of EU as I have shown several post ago. If you would, take the time to read and think about my answers, and then once again you should try to prove that the book is uncanon.

Originally posted by IKC
Except Obi-Wan mysteriously is unable to do so in ESB. He even states that he's unable to. Contradicted by the movies, not canon. QED.

Where did Obi-wan state that he was unable to do so? And did you ever think about the fact that Obi-wan's spirit was far older and weaker then it was in ESB?

Why do you always type 'QED' at the end of certain paragraphs?

Originally posted by IKC
lol. Prove up, where is this stated? Do I have to prove to you that the Chronology cannot create canon, again?

When you prove that the Chronology isn't canon the first time, then you can do so again. It's stated on page 117, lines 3-5 in the NEGtC.

Originally posted by IKC
He's able to use telekinesis with a fair degree of competence.

Specifics? I want actual instances of this, not, "bUt lukee use teh forcE!!1"/

Originally posted by IKC
Jesus, Glentract. I just proved to you that the guides are not canon because they do not come from his movie production department. G-Canon is anything that comes from Lucas. The guides did not come from Lucas. Ergo, the guides are not G-Canon, much less any other kind of canon.

I like how you conveniently ignored that I showed how absurd your logic is with my Lucasarts example.

I already stated that they aren't G-canon, but the next level down, just like the books and comics. And for what must be the tenth time, if the guides don't contradict the comics to begin with, what does it matter if one is higher then the other, the state the same thing.

Originally posted by IKC
lol!

Glentract, guess what? That was a scan of the compilation book. That one has all of DLotS in it. According to your fanboy logic, that makes TOTJ G-Canon.

Good thing for you that I don't subscribe to that bullshit "logic."

You're just being pathetic. Why don't you try getting some sleep.

Originally posted by IKC
And then I quoted Lightsnake stating the same things you just stated. Good job, buddy.

Still waiting for an actual response.

Originally posted by IKC
Did you... read the quote?

Have you read any of what I have said? Just because one small part is wrong, that doesn't mean the entire thing is wrong.

Originally posted by IKC
Because the Chronology is not and can not create canon, your point collapses. The Chronology cannot, as well, contradict the primary source material they derive their information from, or else the primary source takes precedence over the guide.

You made a horrible assumption.

The guides don't contradict the comics.

Originally posted by IKC
Says the boy who thinks he can dictate what is canon.

I'm the one who thinks I can dictate canon? I think you should take a look in the mirror, buddy.

Originally posted by IKC
TOTJ is not hyperbolic, for one. It makes several objective statements: Marka Ragnos, for example, is the (definitive) most powerful of the (again, definitive) most powerful.

But because DE describes DE Luke and Sidious as godlike beings, etc etc, and later those two are put into context with the people of TOTJ (because TOTJ was written later) their descriptions are retconned.

How does it retcon is? Is having the ability to destroy capital ships with the force weaker then what the Ancient Sith did? If so, how? What exactly makes them weaker?

Originally posted by IKC
And if you had read the book, you'd see that they did.

I still want you to describe them. Go ahead, do it.

Originally posted by IKC
First of all, your analogy is flawed since absence of proof is not proof of absence. Lars could easily have told Obi-Wan that as, for example, Obi-Wan is handing off Luke.

You still have to prove that he did.

Originally posted by IKC
And I never said the entire comic was false, you do have a reading comprehension problem. I stated that many of the descriptions of power were made false and Sidious' meetings with Sith spirits were called into question because it was written at a time when the Sith were only supposed to have existed two thousand rather than five thousand BBY.

You haven't showed how these descriptions are false. All you have done is said they are flase and then say they are retconned by later sources. That, although it might sound like proof, is not proof. An actual occurence would be proof.

And since the Sith Empire being 2000 years old has been retconned, then we now know who he was really talking to, don't we?

Originally posted by IKC
But you do not know that all of them "liked" Sidious, and you do not know that Ragnos himself liked Sidious, [B]because Ragnos did not yet exist. [/B]

Ragnos not existing is retconned. And even if not every Sith liked Sidious, is that any different then with Kun? I seem to remember Nadd not esactly liking him.

Originally posted by IKC
See above.

Ditto.

Originally posted by IKC
I just told you. One of them was Exar and Ulic's amulets meeting. That is made very clear at the end of DLotS.

I don't remember that. Can you provide a passage or quote or somethingt? It seemed to me that him being there was what made the amulets act like they did. I think we have a false cause and effect on your part here.

Originally posted by IKC
Except you have no proof that he lorded over those who were already dead, nor do you have any proof that spirits can harm one another. You assume that since he lords over the living then he must lord over the dead, but this assumption begs for proof. So prove up.

What would make spirits unable to harm other spirits?

If Ragnos wasn't the top dog of the spirits, then what does Ragnos liking him prove? It's not like there were many other capable Sith for him to pick from.

Originally posted by IKC
How about you provide some context? I remember your bullshit about "zOMG, Kyp killed teh leviathan!!1!1!ONE"

This just goes to prove that you really don't know jack about Luke at this point. The person I am referring to is Raynar Thul, who drew power from the Killik nests. The Killiks inhabited approximately 375 nest before the end of Dark Nest. Now, it doesn't appear the he drew as much power from each individual as Sidous did, but he did have a far larger base of power to draw from, making him far more powerful then DE Sidous.

Originally posted by IKC
This is another Lightsnake argument.

There is no proof that Exar got jack shit from the massassi. We only know that their sacrifices were needed for the ritual to free his spirit to take place.

And just because it is something that Lightsnake said it is wrong?

Try and answer this, why would all of the Massassi die if Exar didn't draw power from them?

Originally posted by IKC
Feat wars are a logical fallacy. Provide some convincing context and then show how he'd beat Kun, who likely has much greater lightsaber skill than Luke.

Oh yes, "who likely has greater saber skills" is a great argument. Here's all the argument I need, Luke pwned Raynar.

continued in next post.

Originally posted by IKC
Feat wars are a logical fallacy. If I participated in feat wars, I'd easily answer this with Kun's sith magic spell, the one that froze the entire Senate of at least one million beings and sustained itself while he used the Chancellor of the Republic as a puppet and WTFPWNed Vodo Baas.

Fishy has already shown that your 1 million Senators argument is crap. Joruus, a weakling next to DN Luke, controlled tens of thousands of people(controlled in the same way that Exar controlled the Supreme Chancellor) for a extended amount of time with ease and was considering controlling them for the entire trip to Coruscant, which according to Thrawn was 5 days away.

And how amazing is it that he pwned an old man with a walking stick.

Originally posted by IKC
Lol!

Feat wars are a logical fallacy, but you just shot yourself in the foot.

There you go, all the Jedi in the galaxy. Way more than Luke had, too.

Kun didn't personally call all of them to him though.

Originally posted by IKC

Wanna run that by me again?

You call that proof? Pathetic. In no way does that prove that it would work again DN Luke.

Originally posted by IKC
Kun wins. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Unproved. Please try again.

Originally posted by Fishy
No its an image where Kun smashed through Vodo his stick... As a Padawan with two lightsabers, which proves my point.

Really? So your point is that Kun is so strong, even as a padawan he can break a staff stronger than a lightsaber? Impressive! Thanks for proving a point for the opposition.

again missing the point, why would he create a second identical amulet? Why would any Sith for that matter whats the purpose?

What kind of bullshit redirection is this? He has one. It's enough. If he has two, he can probably blow up the entire senate building. Either way, he wins just about every fight excepting ancient sith. Period. Thanks for proving another point for us.

I'm debating the million people thing, I am tired of people overrating certain actions while downplaying others just for the heck of it because it supports them. I am simply saying there couldn't have been a million people there.

Scans show that there CAN be a million people there, as does the number of member systems and common sense. You want to make a mountain out of a molehill with Revan, but when Exar Kun does something better you downplay it. That's biased and ridiculous. You're trying to tear down Kun to boost up Revan.

And what do those pictures prove? That a Stadium looks huge when your standing at the bottom no shit, and thats its really filled. Well another scan shows parts look empty, so that doesn't prove much..

Don't be silly, Fishy. The first scan shows Kun ascending the chancellor's podium. It's monstrous in size, and that is shown in the other scan to be minute in the stadium itself. This chamber is a LOT bigger than the Pontiac Silverdome, Fishy. I've been in it. I know.

I am a human being however with human emotions, and because of that I wouldn't have been there... There are probably some senators that feel the same way.

Fishy, the chancellor isn't even human. What makes you think every single senator was human and acted like one? And again, your personal observation on your own supposed behavior is moot.

And why would they need the entire Senate for that? If anything the chancellor has already said Ulic will be executed.

Oh, so you're saying contrary to the size of the senatorial chamber, the number of systems and colonies with representation, and the fact that most if not all senators would need to be present for such a trial is simply not the case cuz.... you think otherwise? Any proof for your side yet?

Visibly the best fighter? Tell me who have we seen Vodo fight except for Kun who he beat when Kun was a Padawan and then got his stcik broken and again Kun when he lost... How is that visibly the best fighter in the order, we have seen Nomi kill more then that. We have seen Thon do better that, Arca, Ulic, Cay... And all those guys fought nobody's... Until the Sith wars...

Vodo trained fighters for the better part of 600 years, Fishy. Kun was his best in all that time. He's clearly the most martial of the jedi masters. Even if Odan was superior, he was -easily- killed by Kun. Easily. Kun is leagues above any of the jedi masters, and they are in turn leagues above even Yoda. What part of all this is eluding you?

Btw, QED.

Whoa, a long debate, goodwork between, IKC, Wesker, Fishy and Glentract...but noone seems to have proven who wins? more like everyone has proved the fact the amulet is not that uber...

Kun stomps Luke. Hell, I'd LOVE to see Luke absorb just one of those blasts while contending with his collosal strength and saber expertise.

First thing Janus, You haven't read any of my posts yet have you? Its clear that you haven't, at least not good, because I've already stated a Million times. I don't think Revan will beat Kun, I don't think Kun sucks, I don't think Luke will beat Kun, i'm saying Kun is overrated. Thats what I am saying. So for somebody who hates being accused of not reading posts, you are sure are doing a good job of not reading posts.

Originally posted by Wesker
Really? So your point is that Kun is so strong, even as a padawan he can break a staff stronger than a lightsaber? Impressive! Thanks for proving a point for the opposition.

What opposition? Once again, the staff was broken by the power of two ligthsabers, thats what Vodo says... It doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with Kun his skill.

What kind of bullshit redirection is this? He has one. It's enough. If he has two, he can probably blow up the entire senate building. Either way, he wins just about every fight excepting ancient sith. Period. Thanks for proving another point for us.

Proving a point? How am I proving a point, when i'm saying that having two amulets do the same thing is stupid. There is no reason for it, one is more then powerful enough. He used both hands in an attack with the amulet... Why would any Sith build two things that do the same thing?

Scans show that there CAN be a million people there, as does the number of member systems and common sense. You want to make a mountain out of a molehill with Revan, but when Exar Kun does something better you downplay it. That's biased and ridiculous. You're trying to tear down Kun to boost up Revan.

Bullshit, I am not doing any such thing, i'm trying to see how powerful Kun really is by putting in doubt a lot of statements people made, which have little prove... And really Janus, hypocrisy at its finest, have you even seen the mountains of assumptions made for Kun, and you call it prove. Yet with the lightning thing you call me wrong, why? Becuase it isn't the most logical thing? Becuase it isn't the most likely thing? Because it isn't exactly what it is described as? Yeah, right and i'm the hypocrite...

Don't be silly, Fishy. The first scan shows Kun ascending the chancellor's podium. It's monstrous in size, and that is shown in the other scan to be minute in the stadium itself. This chamber is a LOT bigger than the Pontiac Silverdome, Fishy. I've been in it. I know.

You've been in the senate chambers? No you haven't.. You've been in a stadium congratulations so have I, plenty of them actually. And I know that when you are sitting at the top its damned hard to see whats going on on the bottom. Even if the stadium would be twice as big, and I see no reason to believe that it wouldn't house a million people. It would need to be 20x as big as an average stadium to house 1 million people. and that would be completely filled then, and you would still have just the senators and guards. If every senator had 1 guard it would need to be 40x as big, if every senator had 2 guards it would need to be 60x as big... Its simply not that big.

Fishy, the chancellor isn't even human. What makes you think every single senator was human and acted like one? And again, your personal observation on your own supposed behavior is moot.

Well fine, just watch the scans there are empty seats...

Oh, so you're saying contrary to the size of the senatorial chamber, the number of systems and colonies with representation, and the fact that most if not all senators would need to be present for such a trial is simply not the case cuz.... you think otherwise? Any proof for your side yet?

There are empty seats watch the pictures again.

Vodo trained fighters for the better part of 600 years, Fishy. Kun was his best in all that time. He's clearly the most martial of the jedi masters. Even if Odan was superior, he was -easily- killed by Kun. Easily. Kun is leagues above any of the jedi masters, and they are in turn leagues above even Yoda. What part of all this is eluding you?

Clearly the most martial of all Jedi masters, when we see him fight twice, that proves nothing... Training for 600 years? Feat wars now? Kun was the best of his time I will not deny it. And i'm not claiming Odan is superior to him at all, I am saying that you have absolutely no prove Vodo was such a great fighter, its an assumption you are making for Kun. He fights twice, both times his stick gets cut in half. Once he dies... Yeah he's good with his stick, he could possibly beat every other Jedi in the galaxy or not.

Btw, QED.

BTW: stop saying things like that, when you haven't even taken the time to read what my posts are all about.

i'll admit i rekon Kun wins, but stomps him? thats a bit unlikely, it'll be a diffcult fight lol

Originally posted by Wesker
Kun stomps Luke. Hell, I'd LOVE to see Luke absorb just one of those blasts while contending with his collosal strength and saber expertise.

Janus, I'd really love to hear all that you actually know about DN Luke. Just what exactly makes you think that Luke couldn't absorb it, seeing as Luke overpowered someone who drew his power from the Killiks and was able to literally bend mutiple turbolaser blast away from his ship? I'll get you some quotes later.

obviously, the further Kun fights, the more anger he obtains, therefore each blast he makes doubles in power, wouldnt that mean after a prolonged fight Kun would take it with a huge blast of hatred..

Perhaps, assuming it didn't kill Kun first.

Originally posted by Fishy
First thing Janus, You haven't read any of my posts yet have you? Its clear that you haven't, at least not good, because I've already stated a Million times. I don't think Revan will beat Kun, I don't think Kun sucks, I don't think Luke will beat Kun, i'm saying Kun is overrated. Thats what I am saying. So for somebody who hates being accused of not reading posts, you are sure are doing a good job of not reading posts.

Fishy, seriously... You're pissing me off. You haven't responded properly to the last five posts I've made, and I know English isn't your native language but your reading comprehension ****ing sucks. Being lectured by you on reading comprehension is like being told by a cripple I'm unable to run. I -have- been reading your posts, and I -have- been keeping tabs on your points and what I'm very clearly seeing is a strong reluctance to accept anything that might validate what you consider "overrating" Exar Kun's abilities. The point is that Kun IS that damn good, period. We have scans, we have logic, you have doubt. You need to prove up or shut up and stop lecturing me on reading comprehension. My reading comprehension pisses all over yours anyday, thanks.

What opposition? Once again, the staff was broken by the power of two ligthsabers, thats what Vodo says... It doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with Kun his skill.

The staff is clearly stronger than a lightsaber, which is pretty damn strong and resistant to bashing. If Kun as a padawan could muster the energy to do this, it's exceptional. Especially since Vodo doesn't remark on this being "recuring" or "unexceptional". I doubt every single jedi who comes before Vodo wrecks his staff, or he'd have to keep a thousands on standby for sparring. And the point -I- was trying to reach that you glossed over with your incredible reading comprehension and logic was that Kun smashed RIGHT through Vodo's braced defence using his doublebladed lightsaber, which had only a small central hiltpiece to hold on to. Go pick up a broom and hold it in the middle. Then go attack a friend with a broom. Try and bash his broom in the middle while he holds it horizontally above his head, only holding yours from the middle. See how well that works.

Then come back to me and play like that's not impressive.

Proving a point? How am I proving a point, when i'm saying that having two amulets do the same thing is stupid. There is no reason for it, one is more then powerful enough. He used both hands in an attack with the amulet... Why would any Sith build two things that do the same thing?

Again, we don't know if they wanted to for attack, one for attack and one for defense, or one just to look pretty. The whole point -I'm- making is that he has ONE and it's enough. End of debate.

Bullshit, I am not doing any such thing, i'm trying to see how powerful Kun really is by putting in doubt a lot of statements people made, which have little prove... And really Janus, hypocrisy at its finest, have you even seen the mountains of assumptions made for Kun, and you call it prove. Yet with the lightning thing you call me wrong, why? Becuase it isn't the most logical thing? Becuase it isn't the most likely thing? Because it isn't exactly what it is described as? Yeah, right and i'm the hypocrite...

I haven't made nearly assumptions as you and I tend to admit if I make unsupported assumptions or speculation. You do not. You claim arrogantly that your feeling and opinion on the matter simply is, and no one else can apparently dissuade you. I can tell you're damn stubborn on NOT admitting any of Kun's strengths even in the face of well constructed arguments from IKC, myself, and Illustrious, including scans. No one gave you the job to "dispel" Kun's "overrating", because that's obviously in your head. Kun's not being overrated here; he's being underappreciated. People think Revan can take him, or Yoda. Hell, they think Ulic can beat him. That is ridiculous in sight of the evidence. And you have NOTHING on your side. Practice what you preach, Fishy. Don't say I can't read properly and that I make a mountain of assumptions when you have NOTHING on your side. You can't even effectively put doubt into my mind, and that's pretty bad.

You've been in the senate chambers? No you haven't.. You've been in a stadium congratulations so have I, plenty of them actually. And I know that when you are sitting at the top its damned hard to see whats going on on the bottom. Even if the stadium would be twice as big, and I see no reason to believe that it wouldn't house a million people. It would need to be 20x as big as an average stadium to house 1 million people. and that would be completely filled then, and you would still have just the senators and guards. If every senator had 1 guard it would need to be 40x as big, if every senator had 2 guards it would need to be 60x as big... Its simply not that big.

Fishy, you're ridiculous. I've been on the floor of the Silverdome. It does not look anywhere near as monstrous as the senate floor. And really, does it have to be a million before you're impressed? How many can Revan freeze? Two? Three? Twenty? Please. You're being a stubborn ass. What he did was damn impressive, and while doing other feats that were equally impressive. And it all relates to his duelling ability. So unless you have a conclusive reason as to why we should all hate Kun and think he sucks, prove up or shut up. You are starting to irritate -me- now.

Well fine, just watch the scans there are empty seats...

There are empty seats watch the pictures again.

Oh, so the seats are empty because the artist didn't draw thousands of people in them? Damn. How sloppy. That aritst should have rendered every single sentient in the stands so we can count them and get you to drop the goddamn subject for once.

Clearly the most martial of all Jedi masters, when we see him fight twice, that proves nothing... Training for 600 years? Feat wars now?

Fishy, you are being a goddamn ass. We see Yoda fight twice. Does he suck worse than Obi-Wan? Vodo does not have to fight eighty times in TOTJ for me and others to conclude that he is a martial jedi. He's clearly training jedi in lightsaber fighting. He trained them for centuries, in a time following the Great Hyperspace War. If you're going to poo-poo these armor wearing, saber using jedi, you'd have to conclude that KotOR jedi suck worse because they followed only forty years later, with most of the jedi masters slaughtered and knowledge lost at Ossus.

Kun was the best of his time I will not deny it. And i'm not claiming Odan is superior to him at all, I am saying that you have absolutely no prove Vodo was such a great fighter, its an assumption you are making for Kun. He fights twice, both times his stick gets cut in half. Once he dies... Yeah he's good with his stick, he could possibly beat every other Jedi in the galaxy or not.

So... because Exar Kun is clearly exceptional and the focus of the entire series, I must conclude that Vodo is weak because Kun bests him?

Well I guess Malak and Bandon suck ass then.

BTW: stop saying things like that, when you haven't even taken the time to read what my posts are all about.

I have. I take more time on your posts than you do on mine. And your reading comprehension and logic ****ing sucks today, Fishy. I used to really respect your opinion, but lately you've just been an antagonistic ass and I don't appreciate it.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Janus, I'd really love to hear all that you actually know about DN Luke. Just what exactly makes you think that Luke couldn't absorb it, seeing as Luke [b]overpowered someone who drew his power from the Killiks and was able to literally bend mutiple turbolaser blast away from his ship? I'll get you some quotes later. [/B]

Is Tott "Small Fry" Doneeta a Force God, now?

Cool it Janus. I don't think I've seen you this mad about something since, well, since you got pissed at me for saying ROTJ Luke is good. I think we all need to calm down a notch here, as nothing is getting done. There is obviously a problem somewhere, maybe it's the fact that some of us don't know a lot about NJO and DN and some of us don't know a lot about TOTJ. I admit, I only have one comic and the Guides to go off of. I've never said Luke would win either, but we're all getting a little mad at eachother at this point, and like I said, nothing is getting solved.

Well, I hadn't planned to get worked up but it's surprisingly easy with Fishy's approach to everything. He was halfway reasonable in the other thread with the turbolasers/sith lightning debate, but here he's just being stubborn. He is armed with eternal doubt and pessimism, and no proof or even logical points. When he comes up with one of those, I'll entertain his ideas. Until then, he's really OFF.