TPM Qui-Gon Jiin vs. ROTJ Luke

So much weaker? Prove up. Not much time passed between the movies.

Your theory holds no water, especially since Luke wouldn't have done Vader much good in overthrowing the Emperor if he didn't have a hand.

There is that little matter of Luke having over ten times as much training between ESB and ROTJ then the rest of his life in ANH. I guess you just missed that minor detail.

Yes, if Vader were actually trying to defeat/kill him. He wasn't, though.

The same thing happened with Luke and Vader in ROTJ. Luke didn't want to kill Vader, Vader went to far and Luke went all out just as Vader did in on Luke after Luke clipped his shoulder in ESB.

There is that little matter of Luke having over ten times as much training between ESB and ROTJ then the rest of his life in ANH. I guess you just missed that minor detail.

And that minor detail was described... where? Making things up, are we?

Is this "ten times the amount of training" 60 years worth? Didn't think so. Must not have been worth much since he still swings his saber as he did in ESB.

The same thing happened with Luke and Vader in ROTJ. Luke didn't want to kill Vader, Vader went to far and Luke went all out just as Vader did in on Luke after Luke clipped his shoulder in ESB.

I was talking about ROTJ. So Luke went all out while Vader still wasn't fighting to his fullest. And?

Originally posted by IKC
I'm glad you realize your incompetance.

So you're playing what if? 😆

Sorry, the movies have not yet been remade. Ergo, Luke's an incompetant nitwit still. Sorry, it must hurt your fanboy feelings very much.

Yeah, I'm sure you leaped to the DVD player right after I made this statement. 🙄

So much weaker? Prove up. Not much time passed between the movies.

Your theory holds no water, especially since Luke wouldn't have done Vader much good in overthrowing the Emperor if he didn't have a hand.

Yes, if Vader were actually trying to defeat/kill him. He wasn't, though.

Then he leaps to his feet, does a ninja scream, and uses the Dark Side while hammering at Vader like he's swinging a baseball bat.

Yup.

No, he isn't. is plan worked out very well. With turning Vader and all.

Anything to prove you wrong..... 🙂

So what. Not much time passed. He still got really strong. Strong enough to beat Vader. This fight wasn't just physical. It was emotional too.

Luke wasn't going to go to the darkside. He would have rather died.

Proof?

After his family and one of his best friends got threatened. What a rash decision.

Dude, just because you have more training, doesn't automatically mean you are better.

No, he isn't. is plan worked out very well. With turning Vader and all.

This says nothing about his combat abilities.

So what. Not much time passed. He still got really strong. Strong enough to beat Vader. This fight wasn't just physical. It was emotional too.

No, he was strong enough to "beat" Vader when Vader wasn't trying to beat him. Ergo, the fight proves nothing. The emotional battle says nothing about his combat prowess.

Luke wasn't going to go to the darkside. He would have rather died.

Except he continues to angrily swing his saber at Vader even though he's down. Except he tries to make a slash at the Emperor and is stopped by Vader. Except the Emperor applauds him when he gives in to his anger.

Yep. That Luke's a solid dude. 🙄

Proof?

Read up. Already gave it in this thread.

After his family and one of his best friends got threatened. What a rash decision.

It was a rash decision, one fueled by the Dark Side.

Originally posted by IKC

Face it. Vader wasn't looking to kill Luke. Further proof is in ESB when Vader takes the kid gloves off and promptly dices Luke's hand off after Luke gets a lucky shot on his shoulder.[/B]

Originally posted by IKC
I was talking about ROTJ. So Luke went all out while Vader still wasn't fighting to his fullest. And?

Wow. You can take two slightly related quotes and try to prove something?

They actually make the same points. In both fights Vader wasn't trying to hurt Luke, but in ESB he gets pissed and does something about it.

Originally posted by IKC
And that minor detail was described... where? Making things up, are we?

Is this "ten times the amount of training" 60 years worth? Didn't think so. Must not have been worth much since he still swings his saber as he did in ESB.

Just because there are others who know more then you about SW doesn't mean they are suddenly making things up. Maybe next time you should try thinking. Let me spell it out for you. Luke has about a week of training between the beginning of his life and ESB. Between ESB and ROTJ his trains for several months without stopping. Say three months. Thats 12 weeks. Seems to me like 12 is at least 10 times as many as 1.

Originally posted by IKC
I was talking about ROTJ. So Luke went all out while Vader still wasn't fighting to his fullest. And?

And you still haven't proved that Luke wasn't fighting his fullest. You just blindly assume that he wasn't, even though there is no solid proof that he was not doing so.

Originally posted by mace=badass
Dude, just because you have more training, doesn't automatically mean you are better.

maybe so for small gaps of time, but this is 50 YEARS opposing 4 MONTHS really c'mon. qui gonn was a revered master wh couldve gotten a seat on the council, but his maverick ways, and overall strangeness would not let him. luke had 4 MONTHS of training, he could barely even be considered a padawan. a padawan could not stand up to a master.

and dont give me the oh but qui gonn lost to maul and obi wan beat him bullshit obi wan gave into his rage (dark side) and also had a streak of luck. if obi wan was put in qui gonn's place he wouldve been dead in less 20 seconds.

luke would get his ass kicked by qui gonn hands down

Let's see...

Luke 'I woulda been pwned by Vader when I first fought him if he hadn't let me off without a hand and not without my life' Skywalker would get his ass handed to him. Qui-Gonn had at least mastered Ataru, which is a solid form. What has Luke mastered by RotJ? Nothing except 'I'm going to chop my own head off' swings. Jinn was also a pretty accomplished knight, and would probably become a master a few years later if he hadn't died. I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy, but Qui-Gonn would win.

And have you noticed the recent increase in Luke being involved in threads? Weird...

no, qui gonn was a master

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/quigonjinn/index.html

hey cmon i want the luke fanboys to argue

Luke, was an untrained farmboy wasn't he?

uh yeah

and then he was a poorly trained "hardly even considered a padawan" jedi

Ohhhhhh.......... Vader was lying to him then. Wasn't he?

what?

Ohhhhhh.......... Vader was lying to him then. Wasn't he?

No, not exactly. Vader didn't let Luke win, he just didn't try to beat him. There's a difference.

If Vader had wanted to kill Luke, he would have, and it wouldn't have taken very long.

Luke had basically NO training. Qui-Gon (in TPM novelization) was called one of the best duelist in the order. What was Luke a master of? Ninja screams? As for saber combat goes, a 13 year old padawan in the PT could beat him.

Qui-Gon WTFpwns Luke.

exactly

Vader told him his skills were complete. He was just lying then, wasn't he. You think Luke was tryng his hardest too? He didn't want to kill him. Just because he had 'a ninja scream', doesn't mean he sucks.

well then yes he was lying to him
and if he did a ninja scream i tihnk that means he ws going all out