Originally posted by Guy LeDouche
Luke, he is better.
GOD, you have no proof still you persist that Luke defeats Vader. It takes decades to master the arts of the lightsaber, DECADES. Luke trained for about 6 months, where other jedi trained for DECADES with masters to tell them exactly what to do and can correct them when they do it wrong and still many doesen't master a style to the highest degree.
Luke showed no incredible force powers either, while Luke could choke a gammorean guard to death Vader in ROTS could force choke one of the greatest jedi padawans to death. Luke's skills doesen't match Vader's in any categorys.
If you can't provide any proof that Luke could defeat Vader then STFU.
"In the final installment of the series, but the third to be produced, Vader is charged with overseeing the completion of the second Death Star, with Moff Jerjerrod as his immediate subordinate. He meets with Palpatine onboard the half-constructed station to plan Luke's turn to the dark side. Darth Vader escorting Luke Skywalker to Palpatine in an attempt to convert him to the dark side.By this time, Luke has completed his Jedi training."
Originally posted by Guy LeDouche
"In the final installment of the series, but the third to be produced, Vader is charged with overseeing the completion of the second Death Star, with Moff Jerjerrod as his immediate subordinate. He meets with Palpatine onboard the half-constructed station to plan Luke's turn to the dark side. Darth Vader escorting Luke Skywalker to Palpatine in an attempt to convert him to the dark side.By this time, Luke has completed his Jedi training."
And where do you think they got the source from? That's right, Vader's quote. And as "Anomaly" proved before, his skills could have meant anything. Padawan's make their own lightsabers, Luke did one too. Mabey Vader meant that since he created his own lightsaber he was a jedi or that he had completed the basic traning. And this doesen't mean that his skills are better than Vader's himself. And Vader didn't know that Luke had describtions to how to build his lightsaber and probably thought he had done it by his own instincts, which is pretty impressive.
Yeah, swinging the sword like a bat, swordsmanship comes natural to him. Comon, a master who has practised for over 40 years, mastered and refined his style, beated 7 jedi's at the same time and had mastered powerful force techniques vs his son who had less time, less instructors and less potential. Sounds like an even match doesen't it?
I point out again that both "styles" are more about theatrics than actual swordplay. both would leave you very open. If you are going to call them lightsaber forms, supposedly ataru, Qui-gon's form is form III and Luke's might be a derivative of form V.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Forms_of_Lightsaber_Combat
It would be basically brute strength vs. finesse.
except in this case, it is a master of finess vs an adept of the brute strength.
Your not listening are you? If Luke's traning is complete, then how can he grow to be so much better in NJO? He has nothing more to learn.
He could not have learnt all the techniques of the jedi and all lightsaber moves in some months. And that source means shit. "WOW Luk u got tha skillz". It could mean anything and it doesen't necessarily mean he has greater skills than Vader.
Tell me, how could Anakin in 13 years not learn all the things you say Luke learnt in the OT when his potential is higher than Luke's, he has better trainers (having teachers at all), having 12 more years to learn on and traning each and every day.
Originally posted by kamikz
Tell me, how could Anakin in 13 years not learn all the things you say Luke learnt in the OT when his potential is higher than Luke's, he has better trainers (having teachers at all), having 12 more years to learn on and traning each and every day.
I can answer that one.... Anakin was always complaining about being "held back" with his force potential he could have advanced much faster if the council and Obi Wan had let him.
Luke on the other hand was rushed through his training. It was the middle of a war and he was pretty much the last chance for the jedi (Leia almost counts, but at that point who would have trained her). Yoda pushed him faster than they would have pushed any Youngling or padawan in PT. Possibly they pushed him as hard as they could and he mastered enough to be considered for jedi knight in the little time they had. Hence he only had to undergo the trial of facing Vader before actually being considered a Jedi Knight by Yoda, the only remaining member of the council.
-edit-
my feeling training complete=finished high school, ready for college
after all, there's always more to learn. Too bad the University had already been torched.
Originally posted by docb77
I can answer that one.... Anakin was always complaining about being "held back" with his force potential he could have advanced much faster if the council and Obi Wan had let him.Luke on the other hand was rushed through his training. It was the middle of a war and he was pretty much the last chance for the jedi (Leia almost counts, but at that point who would have trained her). Yoda pushed him faster than they would have pushed any Youngling or padawan in PT. Possibly they pushed him as hard as they could and he mastered enough to be considered for jedi knight in the little time they had. Hence he only had to undergo the trial of facing Vader before actually being considered a Jedi Knight by Yoda, the only remaining member of the council.
Luke could not have advanced so fast that he in some months mastered lightsaber styles who takes decades to learn. He also almost never practised together with Yoda, he followed instructions in Ben Kenobi's house, so he could only push himself. Luke could not match a 40 year old master. If he's been training almost everyday those 40 years, had real fighting experience against masters of lightsabers and all kinds of foes, what could possibly make Luke able to stand up to him?
Yoda only said his traning was complete because he was dying.
Anakin's line, "I am a slow learner" was only to mock Dooku when he said, "brave of you boy, but I thought you had learned your lesson". Since when did Anakin himself think of him as a slow learner when he was the one who said he had surpassed both Obi-Wan and Mace in 10 years.
Sorry for the double post, but I'm still wondering where we're getting this months figure from. Isn't there like 2 years between
ESB and ROTJ where luke could be training.
Just because the movie doesn't show luke lightsaber training with Yoda doesn't mean it didn't happen. that would be a technically impossible scene with the tech they had when that movie was filmed. a lightsaber wielding muppet would have been hilarious.
Originally posted by Guy LeDouche
"I am a slow learner." Anakin.
👆 Exactly
You can look at it like this.....
Anakin was held back longer than he shoulda been, where as Luke got his GED cuz he started late. So by the time of ROTJ they were rough equivalents.
Obiwan delayed Anakin's training, but accelerated Luke's.
ROTJ Luke is untouchable and a lethal wielder of Djem So. He also has a much higher midichlorian count than Qui.
I point out again that both "styles" are more about theatrics than actual swordplay. both would leave you very open. If you are going to call them lightsaber forms, supposedly ataru, Qui-gon's form is form III and Luke's might be a derivative of form V.
First off, Qui-Gons form is Form IV, not Form III...lol. So this argument isn't worth anything.
"I am a slow learner." Anakin.
LOL! are you kidding me! Anakin meant that as a kinda of pigheaded insult towards Dooku, He didn't mean it literally. Anakin thought he was a FAST learner compared to everyone else (because he was). Thats why he felt Obi-Wan was holding him back. For him to say and mean "I am a slow learner" literally would go against EVERYTHING else he said in the rest of the movie..lol n00b.
I can answer that one.... Anakin was always complaining about being "held back" with his force potential he could have advanced much faster if the council and Obi Wan had let him.Luke on the other hand was rushed through his training. It was the middle of a war and he was pretty much the last chance for the jedi (Leia almost counts, but at that point who would have trained her). Yoda pushed him faster than they would have pushed any Youngling or padawan in PT. Possibly they pushed him as hard as they could and he mastered enough to be considered for jedi knight in the little time they had. Hence he only had to undergo the trial of facing Vader before actually being considered a Jedi Knight by Yoda, the only remaining member of the council.
As well. IT. IS. NOT. POSSIBLE. TO. LEARN. A. LIGHTSABER. STYLE. IN. 6. MONTHS. I dont care who you are, the most powerful force users ever could not learn to use a lightsaber in 6 months, its impossible, it takes decades to master a lightsaber form. But hey! Luke getting shot in the hand by a fat Jabba henchman certainly proves Luke's supreme Lightsaber skill eh!? Gimme a break. Luke sucks balls at lightsaber combat in ROTJ, there's no way he could not have.
Sorry for the double post, but I'm still wondering where we're getting this months figure from. Isn't there like 2 years between
ESB and ROTJ where luke could be training.Just because the movie doesn't show luke lightsaber training with Yoda doesn't mean it didn't happen. that would be a technically impossible scene with the tech they had when that movie was filmed. a lightsaber wielding muppet would have been hilarious.
Most of Luke's training came from Yoda, who didn't even have a saber anymore (he lost it against Palpatine and Dagobah has no materials to construct another). So Yoda couldn't have even taught Luke anything (useful) about using a saber. Give it up, Luke has no saber skill. It didn't look like he had any, why? Because he didn't have any. He cant have had any and even if he did have a little, hes certainly not a Form V master like Vader (who Dooku said was the best practitioner of Form V he had ever seen) Nor is he a Form IV master like Qui-Gon. He wouldn't even know much of Form I, which is the basic Saber form that all Jedi in the PT era learned, there was simply not enough time to learn it.
Luke can't beat Vader OR Qui-Gon. Its not possible, nor logical that he could. Time to accept that Luke was not "teh 00ber jedi!!11" and move on.