ROTS Sidious vS. ROTJ Sidious

Started by tdtd8 pages

THANK YOU

And besides, the sole purpose of Sidious's plan was to prove to Anakin that the dark side is stronger. How was Sidious trying to lure Anakin? Simple. He kept saying how much the Jedi held him back, and how much stronger Anakin can be with the dark side. And then he tries to show Anakin that he can't even beat Mace, who, keep in mind, wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the order? WTF is that? So if Anakin entered the office with Mace lying dead on the floor, and Sidious then says "Do you see how powerful the dark side is? FOUR Jedi Masters were no match for me and my powers of the dark side. And The Jedi never trusted you and constantly held you back. I however, realize your full potential and intend on making sure you will reach it. So you may benefit from this, and learn the powers of the dark side and the power to save your wife . Or you may continue to serve people who don't even trust you, or like you, as a matter of fact, and are constantly holding you back by striking me down. It's your choice". You people are actually gonna tell me that Anakin will attack Palpatine? Anakin has a lust for power. To say he will give up the man who promised him insane powers and powers to save his true love just for someone who doesn't trust him, or hell, doesn't even like him is ludicrous.

Again, good point

And besides, the sole purpose of Sidious's plan was to prove to Anakin that the dark side is stronger. How was Sidious trying to lure Anakin? Simple. He kept saying how much the Jedi held him back, and how much stronger Anakin can be with the dark side. And then he tries to show Anakin that he can't even beat Mace, who, keep in mind, wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the order? WTF is that? So if Anakin entered the office with Mace lying dead on the floor, and Sidious then says "Do you see how powerful the dark side is? FOUR Jedi Masters were no match for me and my powers of the dark side. And The Jedi never trusted you and constantly held you back. I however, realize your full potential and intend on making sure you will reach it. So you may benefit from this, and learn the powers of the dark side and the power to save your wife . Or you may continue to serve people who don't even trust you, or like you, as a matter of fact, and are constantly holding you back by striking me down. It's your choice". You people are actually gonna tell me that Anakin will attack Palpatine? Anakin has a lust for power. To say he will give up the man who promised him insane powers and powers to save his true love just for someone who doesn't trust him, or hell, doesn't even like him is ludicrous.

Very nice analysis, but here's mine: After the initial shock of realizing Palpy is Sids, Anakin had his wits about him. He was a Jedi Knight with one flaw. This flaw was not his crave for power, but it was the crave for power to save Padme.

Palpatine was genius in the way he played on Anakin's emotions. They both knew that "If I(Palpatine) am gone, all your chances for saving her will be lost". By saving Palpatine, he felt he was saving his wife. If Anakin had barged in on four Jedi corpses, he wouldn't be moody and rash, he would be firm and headstrong. He would be exactly like he was earlier, wanting to destroy the Sith.

Anakin was a good man who simply started down the wrong path.

A very interesting point Gamblor, I must say. But I will address one point to you. Anakin already had the chance to kill Sidious earlier (when Palpatine first reveals himself as a sith), but chose not to. Why? Sidious mentions Padme. Simple as that. And if Sidious mentions Padme again after killing Mace, what difference does it make?

If he had found the four bodies, he wouldn't be willing to serve him at that point, just like he was unwilling to serve him when he found out about the entire conspiracy earlier. I suppose Palpatine could be able delay his own demise from Anakin (assuming anakin could defeat him, which he couldn't). He would do exactly what he had done earlier: Inform the council and send more Jedi on his ass.

By killing Mace he sealed his fate. There was no turning back.

It's really getting late here, 11 pm. I need to be going. Nice debate going on here Gamblor. I'll be back tomorrow to correct your mistakes 😛 j/k.

This is not a debate, we know what Lucas states, why are you arguing with it?

Pretending AFTER HE TRIED TO KILL MACE! He WAS trying to kill Mace but got OVERPOWERED. THEN he decided to call Anakin for help. So yes, I am fully aware that Palpatine played possum, but only after Mace overpowered him. THAT is what GL said. We have to make account for the fact that GL said Mace OVERPOWERED Sidious and that Palpatine's initial lightsaber strike was an attemp to KILL Mace as well!

I'll re-watch that scene and listen to what GL says.
Palpatine was owned by Mace in light saber combat. Then when his lightning had no effect on Mace, he started playing the victim in front of anakin screaming "i'm weak I can't hold on much longer".

he played weak before he used the lightning, too. Played weak.
But the main point is, even if Anakin had not been there Sidious was in very little danger since he could have killed Mace with the lightning while Mace's blade was over his head anyways. And either way palpatine came out on top, so he won, right?
Palpatines Databank Profile: Windu overpowered Palpatine the instant Anakin Skywalker came running into the offices.

Also from his adatbank profile:
Palpatine slumped in the corner, seemingly too weak to continue the lightning assault.

So okay, I'll admit that he was overpowered in the duel if the rest of y'all admit that if Anakin hadn't showed up he still could have fought for longer than he did and maybe won.

Windu had disarmed Sidious and cornered the treacherous Sith Lord into the frame of his expansive office window.

Yes, he got rid of his lightsaberm but as shown in his duel with Yoda, Sidious is more efficient when fighting with the Force anyways.

And okay, Lucas says Mace overpowered him. So okay, he overpowered him in the lightsaber duel. But Palpatine still had lots of power at his disposal.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
And besides, the sole purpose of Sidious's plan was to prove to Anakin that the dark side is stronger. How was Sidious trying to lure Anakin? Simple. He kept saying how much the Jedi held him back, and how much stronger Anakin can be with the dark side. And then he tries to show Anakin that he can't even beat Mace, who, keep in mind, wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the order? WTF is that? So if Anakin entered the office with Mace lying dead on the floor, and Sidious then says "Do you see how powerful the dark side is? FOUR Jedi Masters were no match for me and my powers of the dark side. And The Jedi never trusted you and constantly held you back. I however, realize your full potential and intend on making sure you will reach it. So you may benefit from this, and learn the powers of the dark side and the power to save your wife . Or you may continue to serve people who don't even trust you, or like you, as a matter of fact, and are constantly holding you back by striking me down. It's your choice". You people are actually gonna tell me that Anakin will attack Palpatine? Anakin has a lust for power. To say he will give up the man who promised him insane powers and powers to save his true love just for someone who doesn't trust him, or hell, doesn't even like him is ludicrous.

"What have I done?" The moment Anakin kills Mace he regrets his decision. But it is to late to turn back. the Jedi would never forgive him for what he did. Which is stated in The Rise of Darth Vader. If Anakin had walked in to find all the Masters dead he wouldn't have seen Palpatine in danger and wouldn't have had strong enough motivation to turn to the Dark Side.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
And besides, the sole purpose of Sidious's plan was to prove to Anakin that the dark side is stronger. How was Sidious trying to lure Anakin? Simple. He kept saying how much the Jedi held him back, and how much stronger Anakin can be with the dark side. And then he tries to show Anakin that he can't even beat Mace, who, keep in mind, wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the order? WTF is that? So if Anakin entered the office with Mace lying dead on the floor, and Sidious then says "Do you see how powerful the dark side is? FOUR Jedi Masters were no match for me and my powers of the dark side. And The Jedi never trusted you and constantly held you back. I however, realize your full potential and intend on making sure you will reach it. So you may benefit from this, and learn the powers of the dark side and the power to save your wife . Or you may continue to serve people who don't even trust you, or like you, as a matter of fact, and are constantly holding you back by striking me down. It's your choice". You people are actually gonna tell me that Anakin will attack Palpatine? Anakin has a lust for power. To say he will give up the man who promised him insane powers and powers to save his true love just for someone who doesn't trust him, or hell, doesn't even like him is ludicrous.

Sidious motives there was not to show Anakin the power of dark, but to make him take the last step into the dark. Anakin was good, he didn't fall to Sidious side the last time he confronted him and said he could get unimaginable power, so instead he made Anakin feel that he needed him to survive to help Padme. Anakin had no chioce which left him to do what he did. And he thought it was an assassination attempt, not a fight.

The entire time Sidious was trying to turn Anakin, reminded me of a car dealer tyring to screw a customer.

He fed him believable lies, and like a sucker, Anakin bought it.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The entire time Sidious was trying to turn Anakin, reminded me of a car dealer tyring to screw a customer.

He fed him believable lies, and like a sucker, Anakin bought it.

He didn't really lie at all. Him bringing Padme back wasn't ever proven to to true or false and I can't really think of any other lies Palpatine told Anakin.

What do you mean he didn't lie. It's quite clear he understood how Padme was going to die, way more than Anakin did.

Originally posted by tdtd
What do you mean he didn't lie. It's quite clear he understood how Padme was going to die, way more than Anakin did.

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Anakin had a clear vision of exactly the way Padme was going to die, what are you talking about?

And what does Sidious knowing about Padme's death have to do with him lying to Anakin or not? Let's make some sense.

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Anakin had a vision that Padme was going to die but in no way did he know how or when..

Uh he saw her dying in childbirth.

I'm saying he has no idea how that came to be, while Palpatine does.

Originally posted by tdtd
I'm saying he has no idea how that came to be, while Palpatine does.

lol?

Anakin had no idea how that came to be? While Palpatine does?

Ok.. I think what you're saying is, is that Anakin had no idea why Padme's death happened. While Palpatine does.

Which is funny because all you did was rearrange the question because the answer is still the same: He saw Padme's death and how and why she died, in a vision/dream/nightmare. That's how Anakin found out how it came to be. Even before Sidious knew. And I can confidently say that last sentence because like I said before, there's no proof that Palpatine knew more or less about Padme's fate more than Anakin did.

Ok? Ok.

Oh and ROTS Sids still takes it.

Anakin had no idea how Padme came to die, otherwise he wouldn't have turned to the darkside to save her, if he knew he was to kill her. Try again