Coleman trebor vs. ESB Luke

And by the way, making an unfounded statement like I'm the worst debater on here, has no bearing when referring to your intellectual capacity, and goes to show you're not too sharp with debating when replying with an irrelevant rebuttal. When I do actually take the time to "debate" rather than simply discuss, I do so with facts and logic instead of what I WANT to be the reality of the situation. If someone can disprove it, I'm all ears and open to accept what they are saying. If I don't feel what they say proves their point or disproves my point, I will continue in my pursuit to convince them of the facts at hand. But if I am wrong, I will concede to that. Not just get angry and run off at the mouth. And when I called you the dumbest person I've seen on here, I wasn't angry (and still not) and it doesn't mean you are the dumbest person here period, but you are the dumbest person I have encountered yet. But still, I'm not referring to your intelligence level per se, I'm referring to the way YOU "debate" and your total disregard for other people's opinions and statements, and just the general way you conduct and carry yourself. Just to clarify...having said that, i might want apologize ahead of time for the basement remark...it has nothing to do with your apparent lack of common sense of Star Wars. And note, I'm writing this before you replyed to my last post.

Originally posted by darthsith19
More like:
coleman = master on the council
luke = 3 years of training, + possesses more potential than almost any Jedi/Sith ever.

But I do agree that Trebor would probably win.

potential really doesnt mean anything in this fight

and how is that possible, if by the time of ROTJ he only had 6 months. im pretty sure he had 6 weeks by ESB. it says so in the ROTJ Luke vs Qui Gon thread

im pretty sure a master could stand up to a "half trained" jedi.
and GL stated that he was half trained by the time of ROTJ, so im giving him the benefit of the doubt here.

Luke had some weeks of training, but even if that was under Yoda and Obi-Wan, he's not going against a fully trained master of the Council and coming out alive.

WTF!? Dude Luke at ESB is hardly trained. Colem Trebor while far from anything exemplary is certianly better than a farmboy who's greatest feat was using the Force to grab his lightsaber or lift rocks while upsidedown.

oh no, i'm not geeky enough to argue Star Wars with a guy whose never gonna get laid in his mom's basement *cries*

Oh, here we go. The same ol Bullshit.

"Look at me as I assume other peoples life while being a complete hypocrite! lol!"

^ You.

I saw no such item, provide a screenshot.

Go read the script, son.

Prove he would be did? Prove you passed a high school grammer class. Prove he was going all out. The script, not the movie imply he was going all out either.

Grammer? More Hypocrisy! It's Grammar

And you forgot a period in between "movie" and "imply", hypocrite.

[quote]wow dumbass, I was referring to his natural instinct, not the fact of his anger. So yes, if you were hit by a bat by a little kid, you would make him get rid of it as well. Does that mean he would beat you?

Too bad Luke was no little kid and too bad Luke was younger and faster than Vader. TOO BAD he had the potential to be the greatest Jedi ever... And ended up proving it.

We aren't talking about Baseball bats or kids.

We are talking about a Young, fast boy and a Cybernetically enhanced man playing with Lightsabers, which are obviously physically different than Baseball bats.

no, but he did choke OB1, Maul was too stupid and arrogant, Sidious prefers lightning...

All excuses.

He choked Kenobi to get him out of the way. Maul also killed the Order's best master at the time and Sidious can still Force choke.

why? what stops him from taking another swing at his head? I dont mean motive, I mean physics.

The fact that he couldn't slice off Luke's head.

Luke was blocking his shots and before Vader tried to get him, he was missing. Hell, the reason Luke got his hand cut off is because Luke was glaring at a piece of Metal that Vader hit because he MISSED.

Well his job to to eradicate ALL remaining Jedi, he addressed him as "Son" (term of endearment) and the most ruthless killer in the Galaxy did NOT kill his enemy.

Vader was proclaiming excuses? Prove it.

"He's just a boy, OB1 can no longer help him"...."If he could be turned, he would be a powerful allie."

The sole reason he addressed him as "Son" was another persuasion maneuver to get him to turn. He wanted to look like he was acting as a father figure for plus points to turn Luke. That's just obvious. He wasn't being dear in ESB. That's ridiculous. He's a damn Sith Lord.

Exactly! Of course Vader wanted to turn him! But he would not hold back on him. He was testing his strength. If he couldn't compare to Vader, why would Vader want a useless Sith on their side? It's do or die with the Sith. Vader EXPLAINED that.

actually Vader was the one to suggest turning him rather than killing him. watch it.

Sidious also mentioned that he could destroy him and Vader. That's why Vader suggested it. If one young man is powerful enough to destroy two experience Sith, are you going to turn him? Or kill him?

Common sense, buddy.

So he was powerful and yet he did not view him as a threat? And I'M the moron? wow...

Yes, Yes you are. Vader viewed him as an asset. Not a threat.

because as far as movies go, he was the only one left.

What the hell? There were plenty of Jedi with more Experience and more opportunities to grow powerful but Luke did it with two dead Jedi Ghosts and himself. He created the most powerful Jedi Order ever.

It wasn't because he was alone. Damn, that's a horrid excuse. Actually, if he had more experienced Jedi around him, he'd probably have an even better chance!

And he wasn't the only one left. There were O66 survivors, such as Quinlan.

Yea, in ROTJ...where he was still going easy on him...due to caring for him.

Wow. Wrong yet again.

"Luke's hatred forces Vader
to retreat out of the low area and across a bridge overlooking a
vast elevator shaft. Each stroke of Luke's sword drives his
father further toward defeat.

The Dark Lord is knocked to his knees, and as he raises his sword
to block another onslaught, Luke slashes Vader's right hand off
at the wrist, causing metal and electronic parts to fly from the
mechanical stump. Vader's sword clatters uselessly away, over the
edge of the platform and into the bottomless shaft below. Luke
moves over Vader and holds the blade of his sword to the Dark
Lord's throat. The Emperor watches with uncontrollable, pleased
agitation."

Luke forced his Father into defeat and submission. Once again, nothing indicates Vader was holding back. GL Said nothing. Movie said nothing. Script said nothing. He trying to get Luke by throwing his Lightsaber at him and then he cut the support line to have him collapse in the small Bridge.

That's the way it rolled.

Yup. And it must be said, the better swordsman does not always win.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Yup. And it must be said, the better swordsman does not always win.

This is true and has been seen before throughout the movies.

Most notably, ROTJ Luke vs. Vader, and ROTS Anakin vs. Dooku.

Han Solo vs the Taun Taun being the most notable example of course.

Ok, if there were more jedi left from surviving order 66, then why would Yoda say, "when gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be." ?

That doesn't sound like there's more Jedi remaining. That just goes back to books vs. movies.

So you're going to sit there and tell me that Vader wasn't acting soft in the hallway of the ATAT, when he was talking to Luke?

"OB1 once thought as you do (with a hint of sadness in his voice)."
"it is too late for me, son."
THEN when the stormtroopers came in he was acting hard, until they left, and he sat there looking out the window in thought.
I never said that Luke didn't earn his victory, but i don't think that Vader/Anakin was going all out.

Sorgo, that's shameful.

Luke gets his ass curbstomped at this point. Coleman's not going to hold back as Vader did.

Originally posted by IKC
Sorgo, that's shameful.

Luke gets his ass curbstomped at this point. Coleman's not going to hold back as Vader did.

Shameful my ass.

Unfortunately, Vader wasn't holding back.

No one wants to provide any evidence that Coleman has the ability to defeat Luke except for "He's a Jedi Master!"

Coleman was not much of a fighter, as you can see he gets owned by Jango Fett (even if Jango did caught him by surprise). Jedi are not made Masters just because they are wise and all that crap. He must have had at least a few accomplishments. He has also completed his Jedi training, and was on the Council (another testimony to his skills, although I'm sure they still suck pretty bad)

Luke, however, has a deeper connection to the Force, and could rely on his instincts to help him. Sorgo, can you please tell me where it says Vader was not holding back because I honestly dont want to read everything everyone has posted 😬. This might sound a bit confusing, but between ESB and ROTJ has not that much time, so Luke was probably already pretty advanced with his lightsaber.

Coleman Trebor was a Jedi Master, and therefore had at least some proficincy with the blade. He has completed his Jedi Training fully, and undoubtedly put up a good fight against Jango Fett (of course he would have been killed in the end). Sorgo, you have said at the beginning of the post, that Luke deflected bolts by men who were possibly clones of Jango. Possibly clones of Jango, not Jango himself or even trained by Jango (those clones died LONG ago of old age). Imperial Stormtroopers are without a doubt fine marksmen, but unfortuneately, unless you can prove me wrong, that piece of evidence counts for nothing.

Coleman Trebor, fully fledged Jedi Master, member of the Jedi Council, will win with more or less quite a bit of difficulty

Originally posted by Council#13
Coleman was not much of a fighter, as you can see he gets owned by Jango Fett (even if Jango did caught him by surprise). Jedi are not made Masters just because they are wise and all that crap. He must have had at least a few accomplishments. He has also completed his Jedi training, and was on the Council (another testimony to his skills, although I'm sure they still suck pretty bad)

Luke, however, has a deeper connection to the Force, and could rely on his instincts to help him. Sorgo, can you please tell me where it says Vader was not holding back because I honestly dont want to read everything everyone has posted 😬. This might sound a bit confusing, but between ESB and ROTJ has not that much time, so Luke was probably already pretty advanced with his lightsaber.

Coleman Trebor was a Jedi Master, and therefore had at least some proficincy with the blade. He has completed his Jedi Training fully, and undoubtedly put up a good fight against Jango Fett (of course he would have been killed in the end). Sorgo, you have said at the beginning of the post, that Luke deflected bolts by men who were possibly clones of Jango. Possibly clones of Jango, not Jango himself or even trained by Jango (those clones died LONG ago of old age). Imperial Stormtroopers are without a doubt fine marksmen, but unfortuneately, unless you can prove me wrong, that piece of evidence counts for nothing.

Coleman Trebor, fully fledged Jedi Master, member of the Jedi Council, will win with more or less quite a bit of difficulty

Actually, you should ask yourself where it says Vader WAS Holding back, Council #13.

It's an outright silly assumption. No proof for it at all.

Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
Actually, you should ask yourself where it says Vader WAS Holding back, Council #13.

It's an outright silly assumption. No proof for it at all.

Among other things, some of the stronger evidence for Vader holding back is the speed with which he pwned Luke after Luke got a lucky hit on his shoulder.

Originally posted by Fox5
I can say the same about where it says Vader WASN"T holding back.There's no proof to that either. 😉

Good point!

why would vader be going all out?

Luke just pulls out his blaster and shoots Trebor's ass. 😛