Coleman trebor vs. ESB Luke

Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
Yeah, that's true.

Too bad he only kills one Jedi, a Monster and then gets his head chopped off.

Damn . . . DEADLY!

Irrelevant. Has nothing to do with ESB.

Irrelevant. Doesn't prove Vader held back.

Funny . . . Vader didn't want to damage the "Emperor's Prize" but he cut his hand right off?

Weird . . .

Vader was testing Luke. He wasn't holding back. Vader was pushing him to see if he could surpass him. The Sith way is to fully expand your available horizon.

"If you are not strong enough, you do not deserve to live, let alone walk among the Sith."

^ [b] S I T H

If Luke wasn't strong enough to at least be somewhat parallel to him, he did not deserve life. That's all.

Exactly!

You honestly can't prove shit!

That's just the way it is. You have all these ridiculous theories and no back up.

"Maul wasn't powerful enough."

PROVE IT! How the hell do you know he couldn't use Force Choke? Hell, He's a Sith so it's safe to assume he can choke someone.

Now Sidious did that to sway Anakin? Actually, since the Script apparently sucks and Lucas is the center of knowledge:

Lucas said in the Commentary that Sidious was overpowered and defeated by Mace, only to begin faking when Anakin entered to spare his own life.

Yoda and Sidious are equal but Mace isn't equal to Sidious?

So . . . It says Mace was on par with Yoda and Mace managed to defeat Sidious and Yoda didn't . . . And you're going to try to tell me Sidious couldn't use a "Quick Kill Tactic" on Yoda but he could with Mace? I call Logical Fallacy.

Where's your god now? [/B]

So you're saying that Jango only killed 3 things in his ENTIRE life? Right...

I notice that you say something is irrelevant when you cant refute intelligently.

He didn't want to damage Luke, HE SAID SO!!! And yes he cut his hand off after Luke got in a lucky hit that pissed him off. Vader was obviously in control of his emotions until that point.
And again if Vader was going all out to test Luke, then Dooki was going all out to test Anakin and Anakin still beat your precious Dooku.

I can't prove shit? And you can? PROVE that Maul WAS strong enough. All you have are the same ridiculous theories with no concrete back up, just opinions you have based on your likings of certain characters...do I smell a bit of a fanboy?

And I didn't say that MAce didn't earn his victory, but when Sidious lost, instead of immediately trying to kill Mace, he waited til Anakin got there to play the sympothy role.

And you purposely misquoting what i said and twisting it around to fit your needs of the debate. Yoda and Mace are equal, but overall, not in the same exact fields. Just like Anakin said, "As wise as master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu."
Mace has more physical power and skill with a lightsaber, but Yoda has a greater knowledge of the force.
Thats why Dooku said after failng with lightning, "Obviously this contest cannot be decided with our knowledge of the force...but with our skills with a lightsaber."
There IS a difference. Thats why Mace had to block Sid's lightning with a lightsaber and Yoda blocked with his hands.

SO show proof for your theories...you cant can you?

Dooku used one hand to cut off Anakin's arm and to cut up Kenobi in two seperate places. Dooku used one hand to choke Kenobi and then to crush him under a large platform. One hand means nothing. Using one hand was obviously a part of Vader's fighting form, since someone mentioned earlier, Sith like to customize their technique.

He was trying to turn Luke but he was still going all out on him. He was testing to see how good he was. He's not going to back down on someone he is testing. That is NOT THE SITH WAY.

Why the hell would he capture someone he was testing? Holy shit.

In ANH, Kenobi was a significant challenge to Vader. And in ROTJ, Luke ruined Vader. In ESB, Vader had significant trouble but still overpowered his son in the end.

He also blocked more shots than Coleman did before Jango ripped him apart.

Kenobi trained Luke between ANH and ESB.

If Vader could have just Force choked Luke in the battle and killed him, why didn't Sidious do it just to end Mace and not risk his life?

Why not do it with Yoda? Why didn't Maul do it with Jinn and Kenobi? Were they all holding back? Please!

I'm Sorry, last time I checked, Jango killed ONE Jedi in that Arena, pwned a Monster and ATTEMPTED to pwn Mace.

Since when did that rule apply? Most Kills = Most Deadliest? They're two different things.

Too bad he only kills one Jedi, a Monster and then gets his head chopped off.

Damn . . . DEADLY!

Funny . . . Vader didn't want to damage the "Emperor's Prize" but he cut his hand right off?

"If you are not strong enough, you do not deserve to live, let alone walk among the Sith."

^ S I T H

Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
Yeah, that's true.

Too bad he only kills one Jedi, a Monster and then gets his head chopped off.

Damn . . . DEADLY!

"His blaster skills killed several Jedi, but Jango was not quite prepared to face off against Jedi Master Mace Windu.''

We never do see what happens between Coleman's death and Jango's descent to the arena. Deadly is right, especially when you're considered so by Mace Windu.

Irrelevant. Has nothing to do with ESB.

Irrelevant. Doesn't prove Vader held back.

Funny . . . Vader didn't want to damage the "Emperor's Prize" but he cut his hand right off?

Weird . . .

Vader was testing Luke. He wasn't holding back. Vader was pushing him to see if he could surpass him. The Sith way is to fully expand your available horizon.

"If you are not strong enough, you do not deserve to live, let alone walk among the Sith."

If Luke wasn't strong enough to at least be somewhat parallel to him, he did not deserve life. That's all.

How the hell would Vader discover the extent of Luke's potential if he killed him? He slaughters Jedi easily in RoDV and Purge, and as we see him in the movies, Luke certainly isn't on the level of Master Shryne. You can test someone without slaughtering them, as was evidenced by Vader's carefree, one-handed parrying of Luke's blows in the duel's beginning.

What has that got to do with ANYTHING?

Obviously you haven't read all the posts. It has got to do with what me and Subjekt where talking about previously.

Read next time.

And is it the Sith way to return to the lightside? Luke was his son, Sorgo. He was toying with him the entire duel. He isn't going to kill his own son. So he was going all out on Lukle but at the same time not trying to kill him? That's impossible.

By ESB, Vader didn't care. He wanted Luke on the Dark side. Vader was acting in Arrogance and he wanted Luke on his side to benefit the Empire because he knew his son was powerful. He wouldn't just go there to toy with him, he was testing him. His skills and his power.

Of course he was testing him! He wanted to see if he was powerful enough to hold against Vader.

He wasn't testing Luke, Sorgo. He was trying to capture him. Remember the Carbon freezing Chamber? That's called trying to capture someone.

No, he failed that. He was testing Luke from there. He was throwing large projectiles at him and went as far as cutting his hand off. I'm guessing Luke's Saber going through Vaders shoulder was all part of his plan? Please.

So much trouble that he wasn't even breathing hard. So much trouble that he wasn't even trying to kill Luke. So much trouble that Luke was being drivewn back the entire time and Vader had Luke at his mercy but let him live and continue to fight.

Luke was also getting shit thrown at him. Vader also failed to capture Luke. Luke also slashed Vaders shoulder. Vader also cut off Luke's hand when he wasn't looking.

So now your comparing a remote droid to Jango Fett?

Why not? Isn't Coleman a Jedi Master? One who is supposed to whoop Luke's ass?

How could he have when he didn't appear to Luke until ESB?

Actually, there is book on when Luke meets Kenobi's Ghost between ANH and ESB.

Sidious was faking during the Force part of their battle.

No, I'm talking about the entire fight. Why not quickly force choke him and get rid of him? I mean, apparently Vader could have just done that, right? Why didn't Maul? Dooku? Sidious? C'mon, man!

By the way, when Sidious unleashed a flurry of Lightning when Mace blocked it, he wasn't faking that. He wanted Mace gone at that point but failed.

quote:
Why not do it with Yoda? Why didn't Maul do it with Jinn and Kenobi? Were they all holding back? Please!

Yoda would have killed him while he was being choked. Seriously, would Sidious really use a Dark Side power like that on Yoda when there's a good chance Yoda'd just block it? Maul didn't do it to Qui-Gon cause Qui-Gon was probably stronger with the Force than he was and when did he have the chance to use it on Obi-Wan?

Wait a minute . . . Block a Force Choke? Prove to me how the HELL Yoda is going to block a Force Choke.

What makes you think Qui Gon is stronger in the Force? Probably? Maul beat him in Lightsaber combat. What makes you think he couldn't choke him to death just as easily?

So because he killed one Jedi on screen you assume that he killed only one Jedi? No, he killed more than one, as you would know if you had read The Fight to Survive.

According to the Movie, which is overall Canon, we saw him jump down after killing Coleman, pwned a monster and then tried to dodge Mace's shit but got his head lopped off.

Deadliest, Sorgo.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=deadliest

Indeed.

But . . . Not deadly enough.

Yeah, cause he didn't kill anybody before AOTC, Sorgo.

I didn't know we were talking about things outside of AotC. Were we? I don't recall!

What was the alternative? Chopping off his head?

If he was toying with him, he could easily find another way of disarming him without cutting a hand off, right?

Yeah, but Vader wasn't exactly the model Sith.

Now Vader isn't a Model Sith? Oh my F*CKING God, dude.

So you're saying that Jango only killed 3 things in his ENTIRE life? Right...

Who said that?

Who twisting words to fit for their argument now? Hypocrite.

I notice that you say something is irrelevant when you cant refute intelligently.

Could that be because the shit you said was irrelevant! *GASP*

He didn't want to damage Luke, HE SAID SO!!! And yes he cut his hand off after Luke got in a lucky hit that pissed him off. Vader was obviously in control of his emotions until that point.
And again if Vader was going all out to test Luke, then Dooki was going all out to test Anakin and Anakin still beat your precious Dooku.

A Lucky hit? If Vader was good enough, he would have parried your so called Lucky hit.

Hahaha! Like I mentioned before, you're spewing irrelevant bullshit AGAIN! RotS and ESB are two seperate movies. Sorry to let you know.

I can't prove shit? And you can? PROVE that Maul WAS strong enough. All you have are the same ridiculous theories with no concrete back up, just opinions you have based on your likings of certain characters...do I smell a bit of a fanboy?

You're asking me to prove a direct negative theory. That's Logical Fallacy. And No, It's not a theory seeing as they fought and nothing indicates he faked it. Isn't that funny? Hell, maybe you're just a Vader fanboy and can't handle the fact that Vader had troubles.

And I didn't say that MAce didn't earn his victory, but when Sidious lost, instead of immediately trying to kill Mace, he waited til Anakin got there to play the sympothy role.

He could have never immediately killed Mace! He tried that, remember? And Mace blocked it! Anakin had to assist Sidious so that Sids could finish the job.

And you purposely misquoting what i said and twisting it around to fit your needs of the debate.

I haven't done that yet.

You did that earlier, by the way.

I call Hypocrisy.

Yoda and Mace are equal, but overall, not in the same exact fields. Just like Anakin said, "As wise as master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu."
Mace has more physical power and skill with a lightsaber, but Yoda has a greater knowledge of the force.

Whoa . . . Mace isn't better than Yoda in Lightsaber. They're virtually on par. And what makes you think Mace doesn't have a better knowledge of the Force? His Lightsaber style consists of using the Force and his Shatterpoint technique hella utilizes the Force. Oh, that's the Form he created, by the way.

Thats why Dooku said after failng with lightning, "Obviously this contest cannot be decided with our knowledge of the force...but with our skills with a lightsaber."
There IS a difference. Thats why Mace had to block Sid's lightning with a lightsaber and Yoda blocked with his hands.

Yoda blocked it with his hands because he didn't have a Lightsaber! Jesus!

SO show proof for your theories...you cant can you? [/B]

"A quick sword
exchange and Luke forces Vader back. Another exchange and
Vader retreats. Luke presses forward."

"Luke aggressively drives Vader back, forcing Vader to
use defensive tactics."

"Vader retreats before Luke's skillful sword. Vader blocks
the sword, but looses his balance and falls into the outer rim
of pipes."

"uke answers by rolling sideways and thrusting his sword at
Vader so viciously that he nicks Vader on the shoulder. The
black armor sparks and smokes and Vader seems to be hurt."

It seems Vader didn't just have one trouble with Luke.

I'm sure Vader was just toying. Yeah, that's what happened.

All you do is dodge points made and cry out hypocrite and logical fallacy without actually answering anything. Nowhere in the movie did it EVER seem that Vader had trouble with Luke, It seems as though he may have underestimated him, but underestimating someone isn't "having trouble" with them, you just step your game up to its usual level.

And you say that ESB and ROTS are two different movies when i mention that your dear Dooku gets legitimately gets pwned, but then you to Mace and Sids when we're talking about Luke and Vader...hmmm, now THATS funny isn't it?

And yes, you said, "Ok he killed one jedi, a monster and tried to kill mace but got killed, and he's supposed to be deadly?" So you were basing him not being deadly on that one moment, so me asking if he had never killed anyone else is not twisting your words at all, its making an observation.

Ive noticed you debate or argue less like someone who wants to PROVE his ideas, but more like a 15 year old whose not getting what he wants. And can only say the say bullshit everytime...try proof. You cant cry that the movies are the highest canon one minute and then pull a script or book out of you ass the next. Doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
All you do is dodge points made and cry out hypocrite and logical fallacy without actually answering anything. Nowhere in the movie did it EVER seem that Vader had trouble with Luke, It seems as though he may have underestimated him, but underestimating someone isn't "having trouble" with them, you just step your game up to its usual level.

Dodge points? I've virtually crushed most of your theories, not points. And there were points where Vader was pushed back, if you've actually watched the damn movie.

Vader underestimated Luke? He's the one who wanted to capture him because he was powerful! Hell, he went on about his power after he gashed his hand off!

Man oh man....

And you say that ESB and ROTS are two different movies when i mention that your dear Dooku gets legitimately gets pwned, but then you to Mace and Sids when we're talking about Luke and Vader...hmmm, now THATS funny isn't it?

My dear Dooku? Wow . . . You're ridiculous.

You're COMPARING Vader to Dooku. I was using Sidious and Mace as an EXAMPLE, not a COMPARISON.

And yes, you said, "Ok he killed one jedi, a monster and tried to kill mace but got killed, and he's supposed to be deadly?" So you were basing him not being deadly on that one moment, so me asking if he had never killed anyone else is not twisting your words at all, its making an observation.

You did twist my words. You said I referred to the entirety of the Movie when I was talking about the Arena. Now you're going to bare face lie? He was at an Arena with a shitload of Jedi and CIS Droids on his team and he managed to kill one Jedi. I bet there were Droids that killed more Jedi than him.

Ive noticed you debate or argue less like someone who wants to PROVE his ideas, but more like a 15 year old whose not getting what he wants. And can only say the say bullshit everytime...try proof. You cant cry that the movies are the highest canon one minute and then pull a script or book out of you ass the next. Doesn't work that way.

You're lying again and basing your petty grade one analysis on your own opinions instead of what I'm actually doing.

Why don't you try to stick to debating with me instead of trying to judge me? It's ridiculously embarrassing on your part and it looks pathetic. We're here to debate, not play semantics.

Try staying on topic.

Once again, you're talking about Irrelevant bullshit.

The movies are the HIGHEST of canons,Sorgo.Books,comics,video games and everything else are organized into canon catagories,movies being in the HIGHEST of canon catagorie.In other words,the script doesn't matter in this case.Like for example,in the ESB novel and the script it says General Veers was killed when a snowspeeder crashed into his AT-AT,yet,when we see the movie,it's not there.Thats the same for the script and novel,you can have one written down,then have it completely changed into another.Hopefully this post explains what I mean. 😉

I honestly think Vader was testing him,then when the duel got going,he realized that he had underestimated his son.The only part that I think,Vader went all out was near the huge ventilation shaft,when Luke was walking through the control room and Vader seemingly comes out of nowhere.That is the part that I think ,is the only time he goes 'all out'.

Originally posted by Fox5
The movies are the HIGHEST of canons,Sorgo.Books,comics,video games and everything else are organized into canon catagories,movies being in the HIGHEST of canon catagorie.In other words,the script doesn't matter in this case.Like for example,in the ESB novel and the script it says General Veers was killed when a snowspeeder crashed into his AT-AT,yet,when we see the movie,it's not there.Thats the same for the script and novel,you can have one written down,then have it completely changed into another.Hopefully this post explains what I mean. 😉

I honestly think Vader was testing him,then when the duel got going,he realized that he had underestimated his son.The only part that I think,Vader went all out was near the huge ventilation shaft,when Luke was walking through the control room and Vader seemingly comes out of nowhere.That is the part that I think ,is the only time he goes 'all out'.

Unfortunately, The Scripts explain almost every word spoken and every movement. Hell, it directs the Actors on what to do and say and where to move.

Movies are not the Highest Source. Lucas is. You're wrong again.

Scripts are subject to last minute revision. And where's your source for this script? Where are you pulling it from? Anyone can write things in italics, Sorgo. I'm not saying you would do a thing like that, but I'd really like for you to provide us with access to the script for revision.

Originally posted by Wesker
Scripts are subject to last minute revision. And where's your source for this script? Where are you pulling it from? Anyone can write things in italics, Sorgo. I'm not saying you would do a thing like that, but I'd really like for you to provide us with access to the script for revision.

Google "ESB Script".

It's truly that simple.

There are several different Scripts that are all the same, except if you find the WAY BACK original Script, which has a character called "Anikan" in it. Ignore that one and ignore the SS Script, even though the SS Script is perfectly conditioned, he may have made some changes.

how am I lying? I'm stating the obvious. As far as Jango goes, the minute that someone mentioned that he was the deadliest man alive and it was from a book, that ruled out "just the arena scene". Based off his LIFE, he was the deadliest man alive", and you tried to argue that. And you didn't mention you were limiting your opinion solely on the arena scene...that came later.
And when I say you argue like a kid rather than someone trying to prove a point, that's not lying either...that's making yet another OBSERVATION.

Obviously I'm not the only one who notices it. No one here shares your "opinions". You have no concrete proof and keep spouting "hypocrite"...."logic fallacy"...."word up son"...."thats how it rolled"...and calling other people names, and not listening to what EVERYONE else is saying.

And yes, GL is the highest form of canon, and who is it that dictates what makes it from script to film? I'll give you a hint, he has a beard and wears flannel a lot. But I'll go one step further, who also decides what scenes get deleted, therefore no longer becoming canon? GL.

You say that we cant prove our points, yet you cant either. You just keep giving us excerpts from this "script" that doesn't necessarily reflect those words in the movie. And yes he was toying with him...one of the biggest tip offs of that was that he hadn't touched Luke until luke tagged him...then 2 seconds later, off goes his hand. If Luke was that strong and EARNED that hit, then why didn't the blade go all the way through, killing Vader? CAUSE IT WAS A LUCKY HIT. He didn't know he could get it.

I'm not judging you in the least. I'm telling you the way YOU look on these forums, which is argumentative and irrational. I'm not embarrassed by anything I say, because I stand behind everything I say. And me pointing out the obvious truths doesn't make me look pathetic either. But thanks for judging ME. 👆

and by the way, it's bold face lie, not bare face. 😉

Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
Unfortunately, The Scripts explain almost every word spoken and every movement. Hell, it directs the Actors on what to do and say and where to move.

Movies are not the Highest Source. Lucas is. You're wrong again.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
how am I lying? I'm stating the obvious. As far as Jango goes, the minute that someone mentioned that he was the deadliest man alive and it was from a book, that ruled out "just the arena scene". Based off his LIFE, he was the deadliest man alive", and you tried to argue that. And you didn't mention you were limiting your opinion solely on the arena scene...that came later.
And when I say you argue like a kid rather than someone trying to prove a point, that's not lying either...that's making yet another OBSERVATION.

No, it didn't rule out the Arena scene. He was quoting something from a book.

And notice how I said "He only killed one Jedi, A Monster and then got killed". Funny, that all happened in the ARENA. I had to tell you later because your awareness is shit and you couldn't get it on your own so you assumed I was talking about something else. You basically got lost in your own stupidity and you have the nerve to judge me?

It is lying. Your making shoddy Analysises based on your half ass assumptions and you virtually trying to judge everything I'm typing based on your flumsy opinion. I could do the same thing, but I'd rather stay on topic instead of talking about IRRELEVANT BULLSHIT. I want to see how many more times I have to repeat that shit to you.

Obviously I'm not the only one who notices it. No one here shares your "opinions". You have no concrete proof and keep spouting "hypocrite"...."logic fallacy"...."word up son"...."thats how it rolled"...and calling other people names, and not listening to what EVERYONE else is saying.

I'm listening, I'm just rebutting it. Now, you're trying to pull off more analysis shit instead of staying on topic.

Holy shit. You're not a psychiatriast. Get over that and stay on topic and stop talking about . . . *GASP* . . .

IRRELEVANT BULLSHIT!

And yes, GL is the highest form of canon, and who is it that dictates what makes it from script to film? I'll give you a hint, he has a beard and wears flannel a lot. But I'll go one step further, who also decides what scenes get deleted, therefore no longer becoming canon? GL.

Everything I quoted in the Script provided what happened in the movie. It's DIRECT PROOF of what went down in the Movie. It wasn't changed, seeing as it's an updated Script from the current movie of The Empire Strikes back. You think the Script stays the same from all the changes they made before they released the movie? No. After around . . . What now? Twenty Three years? . . . The script has been updated. Accept that and move on.

You say that we cant prove our points, yet you cant either. You just keep giving us excerpts from this "script" that doesn't necessarily reflect those words in the movie. And yes he was toying with him...one of the biggest tip offs of that was that he hadn't touched Luke until luke tagged him...then 2 seconds later, off goes his hand. If Luke was that strong and EARNED that hit, then why didn't the blade go all the way through, killing Vader? CAUSE IT WAS A LUCKY HIT. He didn't know he could get it.

Two seconds later? You mean after he missed APPROXAMETLY six times before cutting off his Sons hand after his son looked away?

It wasn't a Lucky Hit. Luke slashed his arm. So, because it doesn't go "all the way through" It's automatically a lucky hit? You're silly.

It reflects WORD BY WORD of the words they spoke and the movements they made. Go watch the movie. You'll see the same thing I read to you in the script. It sucks being in denial, eh?

I'm not judging you in the least. I'm telling you the way YOU look on these forums, which is argumentative and irrational. I'm not embarrassed by anything I say, because I stand behind everything I say. And me pointing out the obvious truths doesn't make me look pathetic either. But thanks for judging ME. 👆

You're not pointing out obvious truths, you're avoiding 90% of the primary argument by subliminally insulted me and trying to put your little insulting sharade off as an "Obvious Truth", which is more senseless and IRRELEVANT BULLSHIT semantics. You said I was insulting everyone? You're doing the very same thing by trying to degrade my debating skills and my intelligence. Who's insulting who now? Now, let me point out the obvious: YOU'RE BEING A HYPOCRITE AGAIN!

Stick to the argument instead of purposely avoiding it with your dumb opinions of me.

e way, it's bold face lie, not bare face. 😉 [/B]

http://www.babylon.com/definition/a%20bare-faced%20lie/English

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bare-faced_lie

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bare-faced+lie

http://www.answers.com/topic/barefaced-lie

Do you want more?

By ESB, Vader didn't care. He wanted Luke on the Dark side. Vader was acting in Arrogance and he wanted Luke on his side to benefit the Empire because he knew his son was powerful. He wouldn't just go there to toy with him, he was testing him. His skills and his power.

Of course he was testing him! He wanted to see if he was powerful enough to hold against Vader.

No, he failed that. He was testing Luke from there. He was throwing large projectiles at him and went as far as cutting his hand off. I'm guessing Luke's Saber going through Vaders shoulder was all part of his plan? Please.

Luke was also getting shit thrown at him. Vader also failed to capture Luke. Luke also slashed Vaders shoulder. Vader also cut off Luke's hand when he wasn't looking.

Why not? Isn't Coleman a Jedi Master? One who is supposed to whoop Luke's ass?

Actually, there is book on when Luke meets Kenobi's Ghost between ANH and ESB.

Why not quickly force choke him and get rid of him? I mean, apparently Vader could have just done that, right? Why didn't Maul? Dooku? Sidious? C'mon, man!

By the way, when Sidious unleashed a flurry of Lightning when Mace blocked it, he wasn't faking that. He wanted Mace gone at that point but failed.

Wait a minute . . . Block a Force Choke? Prove to me how the HELL Yoda is going to block a Force Choke.

What makes you think Qui Gon is stronger in the Force? Probably? Maul beat him in Lightsaber combat. What makes you think he couldn't choke him to death just as easily?

According to the Movie, which is overall Canon, we saw him jump down after killing Coleman, pwned a monster and then tried to dodge Mace's shit but got his head lopped off.

I didn't know we were talking about things outside of AotC. Were we? I don't recall!

If he was toying with him, he could easily find another way of disarming him without cutting a hand off, right?

Now Vader isn't a Model Sith? Oh my F*CKING God, dude.

Who said that?

Who twisting words to fit for their argument now? Hypocrite.

If Luke was being tested then why did Vader still want Luke to join him after Luke failed the "test"?

Because his potential was unlimited and Vader still acknowledged this.

Vader made one mistake and got a small arm injury because of it. His goal was to turn Luke to the Dark Side. As shown after the duel when he tries to turn Luke tot he Dark Side.

Actually, according to the Movie and the UPDATED Script, Vader was pushed back by Luke several times during their battle and you can see it during the Fight. Of course he was trying to turn Luke! But he was not holding back.

Wow, Luke escaped with help from lando, Leia and Chewie and he got one small hit on Vader when Vader made a mistake. Vader beat the shit outta Luke, cut fof his hand, Luke was barely conscious when Lando took him from the rod thingy aftetr the duel.

He still escaped . . . Twice. And Vader didn't beat the shit out of him, he launched projectiles at him. A bunch of them, which made him bruised and bloody. Then later on he got the chance to cut off Luke's hand when Luke wasn't even looking. Holding back? That's no indication Vader was holding back at all. Vader made no mistake. Luke got through Vader's Defence.

Sorry Sorgo, Jango Fett is vastly superior to a Remote Droid.

Sorry DS19, but if Coleman was so vastly superior, he would have survived Jango's array of bolts with his crappy Lightsaber style.

Yeah, the same book that has the Kaaibur Crystal and Obi-Wan take possession of Luke's body. SOTME is not canon.

The the RotS Novel and LOE are both non Canon, because they have things that contradict the Prequel Movies.

See? I can do that too.

I've already explained why Maul didn't. Vader didn't want to kill Luke. Mace was to big of a threat to Sidious, Sidious never had the opportunuity to use it on Mace cause Mace would have just stabbed him.

Are you kidding? The second Mace walked into that office and began talking, he had the opportunity. He had the opportunity when his arm was fully extended at Mace's chest. And Maul could have as well . . . Easily . . . You think just because Sith don't try to instakill everyone that they're holding back? That's shitty on your part.

He was faking that part. Lucas says so so sorry Sorgo, he was faking it.

No, Lucas doesn't. Either does the Databank. Sidious was faking his pleas for help and quickly tried to kill Mace to persuade Anakin so the Jedi Master would not goad Anakin to join the Dark side. Why do you think Sidious eliminated the Jedi? He wanted no opposition. And yeah: He's going to fake Lightning, burn his own face and make himself look like a raging Sith in front of Anakin all for show. Sidious didn't fake that part. Sorry.

With the Force (duh).

No. Force Chokes CANNOT be blocked.

Qui-Gon learned how to come back from death using the Force. Maul never showed any Force ability as great as coming back from the dead.

Jinn learned immorality and that has nothing to do with In-Battle Force powers. That's like me saying Jinn has better Force powers than Dooku because Dooku didn't learn how to become a Ghost, which is ridiculous.

But we don't see what happened off screen, between and before that stuff, do we.

He kills Coleman and then it goes off. Then it centers on him jumping down and killing the Monster. Then it leaves. After he finishes with the Monster, he tries to off Mace. He fails from there.

Jango was the deadliest man in the galaxy. This includes all his kills, not just the ones in the arena.

You're missing the point. He did shitty in the Arena.

Cutting off his hand is not damaging him, hands can be replaced. No harm done. Plus at the end Vader got pissed off and lost a little bit of control.

No, Luke has a disadvantage without a Hand. He can't use two handed Lightning and he doesn't have the same flex or control he would have with a Natural hand.

So you think Vader is a model Sith? LOL. Vader has never been a model Sith.

Vader is the posterboy for the Sith, dude.

You said that. I said Jango was the deadliest man in the galaxy, you said "He killed a Jedi and a beats. Really deadly."

Yeah, before his Death. That's all he killed. I don't find that impressive.

If Luke was at a disadvantage because of ONE unnatural hand, than Vader HAD to be at an even bigger disadvantage, right? Seeing as how he doesn't have the same flex or control...jesus man.

And YOU YOURSELF said somewhere, "if you're not trying to kill someone, you're holding back!" Period...there's NO room for interpretation here. You cant bend rules as you see fit, hypocrite.

You know what man, I'm done with you. You just don't get it and everyone here is in agreeance except you. You physically drain my energies and just make no sense. So you can come back with some clever quip which includes the words you found in the dictionary today, so have fun.

Look,guys,it's obvious that Vader went all out when they were in the Cloud City Control Room before they fight in the big ventilation shaft,Vader came out of nowhere and was definately fighting at his best right there,Luke only nicked Vader because he so deep in hate that he wasn't concentrating.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
If Luke was at a disadvantage because of ONE unnatural hand, than Vader HAD to be at an even bigger disadvantage, right? Seeing as how he doesn't have the same flex or control...jesus man.

The difference is that Vader had years of Experience, was utilizing the Dark side and had the strength of ten men. Look at the way he uses his Lightsaber because of his synthetic body, man.

He's powerful, but he just isn't the same. And if you're trying to pass off that a Synthetic Hand is just as effective as a natural hand then you truly have an IQ of a Child's Shoe size.

And YOU YOURSELF said somewhere, "if you're not trying to kill someone, you're holding back!" Period...there's NO room for interpretation here. You cant bend rules as you see fit, hypocrite.

When the hell did I say that?

If you're trying to unarm someone, you don't have to hold back to do so.

You know what man, I'm done with you. You just don't get it and everyone here is in agreeance except you. You physically drain my energies and just make no sense. So you can come back with some clever quip which includes the words you found in the dictionary today, so have fun. [/B]

I'll pass that off as some meager attempt to escape my previous post and this current debate, since you seem to be making assumptions, I'll do so as well.

Wow . . . You get physically drained from a Forum Debate?

I just broke a new decibal record laughing.

You're not fit here, son. Go home now.

Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
[B]The difference is that Vader had years of Experience, was utilizing the Dark side and had the strength of ten men. Look at the way he uses his Lightsaber because of his synthetic body, man.

He's powerful, but he just isn't the same. And if you're trying to pass off that a Synthetic Hand is just as effective as a natural hand then you truly have an IQ of a Child's Shoe size.

Did you not see the end of ESB when testing out his new hand? It looked and worked just as well...it even felt pain. And what the hell does that have to do with their fight? He didn't have a synthetic hand yet. IRRELEVANT BULLSHIT!! see how stupid that looks?

When the hell did I say that?

If you're trying to unarm someone, you don't have to hold back to do so.

Believe me Ill find it. If you're going all out, its too kill someone, not just unarm them.

I'll pass that off as some meager attempt to escape my previous post and this current debate, since you seem to be making assumptions, I'll do so as well.

Wow . . . You get physically drained from a Forum Debate?

I just broke a new decibal record laughing.

You're not fit here, son. Go home now.

Word up son? I'm not fit here, dog? Word playa? STFU. I could give two shits about you and your last post. You make no sense and your arguments are biased and too heavily opinionated rather than fundamentally proven with facts. And no, I don't get physically drained from a forum debate, its your consistent childish attitude and substandard debating skills (yes YOU), when all you do is repeat yourself while bringing no new evidence, or any at all, yet YOU claim that all of US, that can actually see that duel for how it was meant to be seen, are stupid.

And how am I making assumptions? What am I making assumptions about?