Originally posted by IKC
Well, it appears you haven't found a thought yet.I suppose I'll just recap everything so even vacant skulls can see it:
As we see in the previous three scans from narration and dialogue, Odan-Urr is teaching Nomi Sunrider how to block people from the Force - a technique she'll eventually use on Ulic Qel-Droma in permanent form.
We also see that such an attack, even though it apparently was effective against the Ancient Sith, did precisely zilch to Kun other than push him back, to which Kun responds by killing Odan.
As we see in this scan, Vodo knows the very technique in question.
Because correlation is not causation
and
because Nomi could perform it by herself
and
Odan could perform it by himself
and
Vodo is stated by the omniscient narrator to know how to use said technique,
then
Vodo can use said technique by himself.
Your subjective observations as to the appearance and apparent effects of said attacks are irrelevant and do not override this narrative evidence.
Your objections that Vodo happened to perform the technique on Ulic with the help of other Jedi are based on a logical fallacy because you can only show correlation and not causation.
Your assertion that Vodo cannot perform the technique by himself is unfounded: Nomi, a subordinate of his in rank and power, was able to do so just fine.
Conclusion: Vodo can and will use this technique to strip the Force from Darth Vader and will win this fight.
QED.
Because 'telling her about it once' equals studious lessons, right?
Once more: Proof it was the blocking technique, because the blocking has ever been shown to be unblockable, worked on people stronger than Kun apparently, and, oh yeah: Odan'd been teaching Nomi for a while. Not to mention the attack doesn't force push the victim.
Yeah, Vodo knows it. Why didn't he try it on his ex-student and pwn him in the battle? Could it be because Vodo is an ineffective master and fails to do practically anything right in the whole debacle? Why don't you prove Vodo could have bested Ulic on his own? I never said he needed the other JEdi, I said Ulic was overwhelmed by six Jedi temporarily imprisoning him...and I noticed you're not going on about how Kun 'restored' Ulic's powers. Prove that Kun even knew about that technique, which apparently defeated his betters in the past. And once more, Vodo'll pause in a fire and prepare an attack on Vader? Moment Vodo lowers his weapon, he loses his head. Oh, yeah, and considering Vodo's shown a lack of that technique when it actually mattered...
It appears you've yet to approach anything remotely resembling a coherent thought. As that is the case, my points stand, and I'll simply amuse myself in pointing out your logical fallacies.
Because 'telling her about it once' equals studious lessons, right?
Disputing the authority (the narrator being the final authority).
Once more: Proof it was the blocking technique
Disputing the authority.
because the blocking has ever been shown to be unblockable
Incoherency (irrelevant misdirection, really), logical fallacy. What the hell does this even mean? Even if I change "ever" to "never" it still doesn't make any sense in the context of this argument and its unsupported by the material itself.
worked on people stronger than Kun apparently
Begging the question, logical fallacy. Did you perhaps consider that Kun was stronger than the ancient Sith Odan used it on or perhaps he discovered a method to block the attack?
Odan'd been teaching Nomi for a while.
I'm very much tempted to call this begging the question, given that I've only seen her taught by Arca, Thon, and briefly by Vodo other than in the scene I've posted numerous times.
Not to mention the attack doesn't force push the victim.
Begging the question, disputing the authority, logical fallacies. Odan's use of it pushed Kun back, QED.
Why didn't he try it on his ex-student and pwn him in the battle? Could it be because Vodo is an ineffective master and fails to do practically anything right in the whole debacle?
Appeal to ridicule, logical fallacy. Begging the question, logical fallacy. Red herring, logical fallacy.
Why don't you prove Vodo could have bested Ulic on his own?
Burden of proof, logical fallacy. Red herring, logical fallacy.
It's already been proven that the technique can be used by only one practitioner. Whether or not Vodo can do it against Qel-Droma is irrelevant, Vader is not Qel-Droma.
Prove that Kun even knew about that technique, which apparently defeated his betters in the past.
Begging the question, logical fallacy. Disputing the authority.
I see logical extrapolations are beyond you:
"Did you perhaps consider that Kun was stronger than the ancient Sith Odan used it on or perhaps he discovered a method to block the attack?"
And once more, Vodo'll pause in a fire and prepare an attack on Vader? Moment Vodo lowers his weapon, he loses his head.
False premise, the attack was shown to work almost instantly, with zero preparation time necessary when it was both attempted and used successfully.
Oh, yeah, and considering Vodo's shown a lack of that technique when it actually mattered...
Red herring, logical fallacy. I like how you assume it would have worked on Kun despite the fact that it failed when Odan tried it. Of course, you could pull your head out of your ass and reason that Vodo knew Kun to be too powerful/knowledgeable for the attack to work, but that'd be asking too much of you.
Still wandering around in vain search of a thought, Lightsnake. Rather sad, actually.
Originally posted by kingkman
IKC, using your logic Vrook or the other jedi that try to strip zayne from the force in KOTOR2 would WTFpwn Vader.
Oh I get it... your one of those people who think Zayne is the Exile. 🙄
Dude... Zayne is an upstart padawan who refused to join the wars... the Exile was a Jedi General. They are radically different.
Originally posted by IKC
It appears you've yet to approach anything remotely resembling a coherent thought. As that is the case, my points stand, and I'll simply amuse myself in pointing out your logical fallacies.Disputing the authority (the narrator being the final authority).
Disputing the authority.
Incoherency (irrelevant misdirection, really), logical fallacy. What the hell does this even mean? Even if I change "ever" to "never" it still doesn't make any sense in the context of this argument and its unsupported by the material itself.
Begging the question, logical fallacy. Did you perhaps consider that Kun was stronger than the ancient Sith Odan used it on or perhaps he discovered a method to block the attack?
I'm very much tempted to call this begging the question, given that I've only seen her taught by Arca, Thon, and briefly by Vodo other than in the scene I've posted numerous times.
Begging the question, disputing the authority, logical fallacies. Odan's use of it pushed Kun back, QED.
Appeal to ridicule, logical fallacy. Begging the question, logical fallacy. Red herring, logical fallacy.
Burden of proof, logical fallacy. Red herring, logical fallacy.
It's already been proven that the technique can be used by only one practitioner. Whether or not Vodo can do it against Qel-Droma is irrelevant, Vader is not Qel-Droma.
Begging the question, logical fallacy. Disputing the authority.
I see logical extrapolations are beyond you:
"Did you perhaps consider that Kun was stronger than the ancient Sith Odan used it on or perhaps he discovered a method to block the attack?"
False premise, the attack was shown to work almost instantly, with zero preparation time necessary when it was both attempted and used successfully.
Red herring, logical fallacy. I like how you assume it would have worked on Kun despite the fact that it failed when Odan tried it. Of course, you could pull your head out of your ass and reason that Vodo knew Kun to be too powerful/knowledgeable for the attack to work, but that'd be asking too much of you.
Still wandering around in vain search of a thought, Lightsnake. Rather sad, actually.
Great, where does the narrarator ever say 'this is the blocking technique he taught Nomi Sunrider?' Until you prove that...was that the only thing he taught her when the effect is totally different?
Kun stronger than the ancient Sith? These are the guys worth 'billions' of Vong now? Though, I change some of the argument a bit: It's possible Sadow's amulet was the counter if that was indeed the blocking Odan used.
And what the hell, 'instantly? We see Odan prepare it, Nomi as well...in no instance of the permanent blocking is it instant.
And perhaps it could have worked on Kun as
A. Vodo had no clue Odan had tried it on Kun
B. Vodo is with...three other Jedi and considering they joined their powers with him before to temporary imprison Ulic..
C. Vodo was also 'too knowledgable' to share the knowledge Exar Kun was responsible for what'd happened-and he knew, thus saving countless lives? That he said 'I must do this alone', without a way to defeat Exar minus possibly cripple him in a major longshot when there are...three other Jedi around, one skilled in battle meditation? And Vodo's brilliant reasoning: "I must do it myself." This is the same guy who just let the dark hearted Exar run off, did as bad a job as Arca in curbing his curiosity and gave the worst attempt to turn someone to the light Star Wars has ever seen, I'd call Vodo's intelligence into question
And 'almost' instantly? The time it takes for Vodo to lower his staff is the time Vader veheads him. We've seen Vader take on...how many masters at once in Purge? We've seen him toy with the top royal guard candidate as if he were a child? We've seen him fighting Maul in unfamiliar ground, we've seen him defeat the Dark Woman, who wasn't a slouch in speed
Originally posted by Traya
The fight between him and Maul, and him an the Dark Women are both non-canon...And in Purge? He hardly pwns them. He kills most of them because he has a cortosis blade, in fact, he walks out of there almost dead!
He would've been killed if the 501st hadn't made a timely arrival.
Great, where does the narrarator ever say 'this is the blocking technique he taught Nomi Sunrider?' Until you prove that...was that the only thing he taught her when the effect is totally different?
Disputing the authority.
Kun stronger than the ancient Sith? These are the guys worth 'billions' of Vong now? Though, I change some of the argument a bit: It's possible Sadow's amulet was the counter if that was indeed the blocking Odan used.
Disputing the source material. Begging the question.
And what the hell, 'instantly? We see Odan prepare it, Nomi as well...in no instance of the permanent blocking is it instant.
Disputing the source material. It takes all of one panel for Odan to launch the attack. That's as close to instant as can be conveyed. It can and will be used in this fight.
And perhaps it could have worked on Kun as
A. Vodo had no clue Odan had tried it on Kun
B. Vodo is with...three other Jedi and considering they joined their powers with him before to temporary imprison Ulic..
C. Vodo was also 'too knowledgable' to share the knowledge Exar Kun was responsible for what'd happened-and he knew, thus saving countless lives? That he said 'I must do this alone', without a way to defeat Exar minus possibly cripple him in a major longshot when there are...three other Jedi around, one skilled in battle meditation? And Vodo's brilliant reasoning: "I must do it myself." This is the same guy who just let the dark hearted Exar run off, did as bad a job as Arca in curbing his curiosity and gave the worst attempt to turn someone to the light Star Wars has ever seen, I'd call Vodo's intelligence into question
Appeal to ridicule, red herring, begging the question.
I'd call what you laughingly call "debate" into question.
And 'almost' instantly? The time it takes for Vodo to lower his staff is the time Vader veheads him. We've seen Vader take on...how many masters at once in Purge? We've seen him toy with the top royal guard candidate as if he were a child? We've seen him fighting Maul in unfamiliar ground, we've seen him defeat the Dark Woman, who wasn't a slouch in speed
Begging the question, faulty use of authority (non-canon stories), flat-out bias.
Come back when you have a thought. My points stand. Vader is certainly not at ROTS Yoda's level. We've established that Vodo defeats ROTS Yoda here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t392447.html
Vader cannot and will not beat Vodo. He'll be blocked from the Force and destroyed.
