Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
you mean like this?YouTube video
video info :theres also this short one that did a pretty good amount of damage (requiring a wall obviously)
YouTube video
Thanks a million!
I shall now study these juggles religiously.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
you mean like this?YouTube video
video info :theres also this short one that did a pretty good amount of damage (requiring a wall obviously)
YouTube video
Thanks a million!
I shall now study these juggles religiously.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiNThe peeps I play wit, locally (PSN is just too far beyond me), are high level, I think, but not really tourney worthy, we can do juggles but we aint doin 60 and 70%ers.
who do you play against that doesn't do juggles? they are simply a part of high level playwhat I mean to say is that its going to be there regardless which stance you take on the issue.. I have fun with the game, naturally, or I probably wouldnt continue to talk about it.. but it does determine whether I wish to be super good or just good enough to be competent
I enjoy this game more than SFIV fo sho.. just because I cant do the important (whatever pop-up)xxFADC ultra.. in tekken i can at least sorta stay afloat with seemingly basic knowledge
I think T6 is hella fun, but I do prefer SFIV by far but it's really only a preference thing and not that one game is better than the other. SF is like Megaman and Tekken is Halo , Imma 2D kinda guy. Plus, even though we aint doin' or really CAN'T do monster juggles, the matches are still only like 10 to 15 secs. Just 2 decent juggles or 3 novice juggles and the match is over. The whole xxFADC ultra thing is just harder and more fun to me.
Originally posted by JustFrame
Believe me, juggling in Tekken 6 is a joke, it's even more newbie friendly then T5, at least in T5 as stupid as it was, you still had to dash, 1, dash, 1, which some newbies just couldn't get that right at all, even though it was insanely easy to do that.In T6, the bound helps out astronomically, because although the 1dash1dash is no longer in affect to the same magnitude, you can compensate this with bound.
It's not hard to land juggles in this game, because I can find myself randomly crushed for throwing out a + frame poke...even though I should have the frame advantage, which is complete garbage. <--- Probably one of the Biggest reasons why I despise T5 and T6...all these random stupid crushes that blow through your + frame jabs.
The Hop Kick is one of the most abusive moves in T6, which started it's trend from Tekken 5. Seriously...no way, should you lose 60%+ of your life, for throwing a Low Poke...gosh forbid, that's so dumb, it makes no sense.
How is that a good pay off for throwing out a low poke? If you land it, it's like what...8-10%? However if you get high crushed hopkick for that, you can lose 50-60%+ of your life, that pay off is downright stupid. You see the hopkick land very frequently even at high lvls, and the d/f+2 for some characters are laughable as well.
This to me, is why Tekken has died for me, gone are the character individualism, no more uniqueness anymore. All in part is because, with the universal options, it forces every single character to having to rely upon juggles. It was cooler when in older Tekken games, only a few characters could juggle and have it as a key gameplan, while other characters derived their damage elsewhere, this was what made Tekken interesting and fun. To me, Namco needs to drop all of this cookie cutter baby stuff and go back to the old roots and bring back depth to Tekken once more...a.k.a. stop emphasizing juggles as the main point to doing damage for everyone.
The removal of individualism is that characters are all forced into doing juggles for their main damage. If you noticed, the best characters with the best juggles happen to "coincidentally" be the best characters as well. Pre-T5/6 this wasn't the case....(T4 Jin (bulldog), Nina (Runaway), Steve (Turtling), Tag with Mishima's (Juggles, pokes, wding, launchers), Ogres (Oki's Galore), Chang's (CH Queens) etc, etc).
Take Tekken 4 for some crazy character individualism. Jin obviously being the most overpowered character in Tekken history had the best Mid-Hitting move, powerhouse bull dogging and the most dominant consistent juggle intact. You then go to Nina, her game revolved almost entirely upon her runaway form+Hiyashia, only once in a grand while would you see her juggle.
Steve in T4 relied on a super turtling defensive game, punishing you with his pokes on counterhits and destroying you in that nature. Lee was a rushdown bull dog monster, Ling with true AoP madness. Kazuya could no longer Ewgf launch 24/7 but could only launch upon CH, this made Kaz players utilize the counter-Ewgf hunting.
Okay, so Tekken 4 had a huge balance problem with T4 Jin being the most overpowered Legal Tekken tournament legal character of all time, however that doesn't devalue the fact that when you look at all of those characters, watch high level play, not one of them feels to play the same. This is what made Tekken interesting in fun in the older games, where as in Tekken 6, regardless of if I'm playing Jin, to Paul...everyone is looking for that juggle. I remember taking a trip down to Houston, playing against some solid, solid peeps...my goodness, everyone was fishing for launchers, it was ludicrious.
Even when seeing vast amounts of videos from the top dogs of Tekken around the world...it's such a joke to see everyone having to utilize this universal option. It's greatly devalued how you play and view Tekken, because now it's a priority for almost every character to have good juggles, where as in older ones, you could still play a Top-Tier to great, or solid w/o having to rely upon seeing your opponent in the air for 60% of their life.
There is no longer a large distinctive nature to player different character, sure, Ling may need to utilize a different move to launch, however the concept from her to Jin will be the same in this game. So although 5 "rounds" may make battles last longer, it doesn't take away from the fact that less strategy vs strategy is involved. Reasons why even the best Tekken players today say that a decent Tekken player can get lucky and get rounds, or even sets on them due to this fashion of play, however previous to this, you would only dream of it during your sleep.
However, Namco isn't just doing this...look to SF, look to KoF, look to many of them...they are all following these neutered water down trends...I swear, 10 yrs from now, you'll only need to push a button to do Ewgf, and twice to juggle if they continue onward with this kindergarten stuff.
Originally posted by JustFrame
The removal of individualism is that characters are all forced into doing juggles for their main damage. If you noticed, the best characters with the best juggles happen to "coincidentally" be the best characters as well. Pre-T5/6 this wasn't the case....(T4 Jin (bulldog), Nina (Runaway), Steve (Turtling), Tag with Mishima's (Juggles, pokes, wding, launchers), Ogres (Oki's Galore), Chang's (CH Queens) etc, etc).Take Tekken 4 for some crazy character individualism. Jin obviously being the most overpowered character in Tekken history had the best Mid-Hitting move, powerhouse bull dogging and the most dominant consistent juggle intact. You then go to Nina, her game revolved almost entirely upon her runaway form+Hiyashia, only once in a grand while would you see her juggle.
Steve in T4 relied on a super turtling defensive game, punishing you with his pokes on counterhits and destroying you in that nature. Lee was a rushdown bull dog monster, Ling with true AoP madness. Kazuya could no longer Ewgf launch 24/7 but could only launch upon CH, this made Kaz players utilize the counter-Ewgf hunting.
Okay, so Tekken 4 had a huge balance problem with T4 Jin being the most overpowered Legal Tekken tournament legal character of all time, however that doesn't devalue the fact that when you look at all of those characters, watch high level play, not one of them feels to play the same. This is what made Tekken interesting in fun in the older games, where as in Tekken 6, regardless of if I'm playing Jin, to Paul...everyone is looking for that juggle. I remember taking a trip down to Houston, playing against some solid, solid peeps...my goodness, everyone was fishing for launchers, it was ludicrious.
Even when seeing vast amounts of videos from the top dogs of Tekken around the world...it's such a joke to see everyone having to utilize this universal option. It's greatly devalued how you play and view Tekken, because now it's a priority for almost every character to have good juggles, where as in older ones, you could still play a Top-Tier to great, or solid w/o having to rely upon seeing your opponent in the air for 60% of their life.
There is no longer a large distinctive nature to player different character, sure, Ling may need to utilize a different move to launch, however the concept from her to Jin will be the same in this game. So although 5 "rounds" may make battles last longer, it doesn't take away from the fact that less strategy vs strategy is involved. Reasons why even the best Tekken players today say that a decent Tekken player can get lucky and get rounds, or even sets on them due to this fashion of play, however previous to this, you would only dream of it during your sleep.
However, Namco isn't just doing this...look to SF, look to KoF, look to many of them...they are all following these neutered water down trends...I swear, 10 yrs from now, you'll only need to push a button to do Ewgf, and twice to juggle if they continue onward with this kindergarten stuff.
I have to agree. I was one of the Kazuya players that had to fish for counter hits. I loved the thrill and it always struck me as boring how everyone just juggles nowadays. It doesn't invite to lose myself to know the characters since its basically just a jugglefest.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I have to agree. I was one of the Kazuya players that had to fish for counter hits. I loved the thrill and it always struck me as boring how everyone just juggles nowadays. It doesn't invite to lose myself to know the characters since its basically just a jugglefest.
Having said that the game Itself Is still brilliant. But obviously as you just stated on the technical level they're changing their tactics. I am enjoying the campaign mode, even though It's a tad broken. They are involving the story A LOT more which is brilliant. I love Lars character design and since I got the Limited Edition I have the hoodie, artbook and obviously the game. It was possibly one of the best next gen titles I waited for... So far.
Originally posted by JustFrame
(T4 Jin (bulldog), Nina (Runaway), Steve (Turtling), Tag with Mishima's (Juggles, pokes, wding, launchers), Ogres (Oki's Galore), Chang's (CH Queens) etc, etc).
heh, I never really got juggled by T5 Steve.. he always raped the living shit out of me while I was trying to get the hell up off the ground 😂
was either that damn jumping fist, or the spin around low hit
but in any case.. I tried to use paul at the 1 tekken tourney I ever went to (for 5).. and I got raped pretty badly 🙁
Originally posted by luffyjin
Having said that the game Itself Is still brilliant. But obviously as you just stated on the technical level they're changing their tactics. I am enjoying the campaign mode, even though It's a tad broken. They are involving the story A LOT more which is brilliant. I love Lars character design and since I got the Limited Edition I have the hoodie, artbook and obviously the game. It was possibly one of the best next gen titles I waited for... So far.
I like Lars's 2nd outfit. He looks silly with the cape. I also like his style, and eventhough he is a Mishima, which automatically makes him badass, I think Namco should stop depending on adding new Mishimas in every game just to spice things up.
Everything? Doubt it. We just saw him beat Azazel, not Lars, not Kazuya...
Well, if the campaign mode is canon and not Jin's arcade storyline. The way I see it Lars pwned everything...from Heihachi to Kazuya to Jin, except Jin brushed off the damage and went to beat Azazel. Besides what do you expect, he should be the strongest for halving the devil gene + what nullifies the devil gene (so then anyone who has the devil gene, which are the ONLY ones who can stand a chance to someone else who has it, will get countered by Jin's Kazama blood).
Originally posted by Shutter Control
Everything? Doubt it. We just saw him beat Azazel, not Lars, not Kazuya...Well, if the campaign mode is canon and not Jin's arcade storyline. The way I see it Lars pwned everything...from Heihachi to Kazuya to Jin, except Jin brushed off the damage and went to beat Azazel. Besides what do you expect, he should be the strongest for halving the devil gene + what nullifies the devil gene.
At this point I don't care about Jin being Tekken's god. Its just boring that in the end it is always Jin the one ending the conflict.
I don't mind Lars at all. He is actually quite cool, though having yet another Mishima is boring as ****.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
heh, I never really got juggled by T5 Steve.. he always raped the living shit out of me while I was trying to get the hell up off the ground 😂was either that damn jumping fist, or the spin around low hit
but in any case.. I tried to use paul at the 1 tekken tourney I ever went to (for 5).. and I got raped pretty badly 🙁
Steve was a monster in Tekken 5 (Some may "claim" he was the Best Tournament Character of all time, however do not listen to them, they are on drugs, many characters from T3, Tag, and T4 would make T5 Steve cower believe me).
He had good okis, great juggles, great CH's, a monster wall game. 121~Alb in T5 was stupid, great crush, stunned, advanced a juggle...wow. Then you add the fact that he also had an infinity...are you kidding me? I remember watching high level plays of how many times people got infinited, it was full of fail and laughter.
5.0 Steve hands down was the best overall character in that game. Nina gave Steve a super tough time in that game, as well as Devil Jin when played right, in fact during a long time in S. Korea (best overall Tekken players on the planet btw) Leedy's Devil Jin was a counter to Steve...that is until the Infinity was found, haha.
Hated fighting Steve in that game, but...not as much as fighting T4 Jin...omgosh...JFLS alone did 60% damage, and that was equivelant to a typical launcher+juggle from 5.0 Steve. If you add the juggle damage that came along with JFLS for T4 Jin, he did 94% minimum and could break the 100%+ damage. No joke, a consistent Juggle that I used to do with Jin did 120%+ damage...that's almost All of the 150% life bar that you are given.
It went something like this...
JFLS, Ewhf, Dash, 1, 123, D+4...I really can't remember anymore, been years since I last played Tekken 4. The hardest part of this is the dash after Ewhf into the 1 poke, then 123, other then that, once you get this juggle down, it's joke. Because if they lost 25% damage prior to this, it's game over.
Not to mention T4 Jin's Parry was super retarded and the best defensive move in any Tekken game ever, someone at Namco forget to realize that a 20-Frame window to Parry with a 2-frame window to punish only was what do you call it...virtually almost impossible.
Anyhow, I remember getting flamed back at Tekkenzaibatsu when Tekken 5 first came out, and I said it was a pile of crap because it went from character individualism to "Let's all play Juggle" galore. However less then 2-months after it's release, almost all the best players started to agree with my notion, and I'm glad they realized it.
However, on a storyline note...I swear, if Jin wins or dominates again, I'm going to drop a bomb on the Namco building. Jin ever since he's shown up in Tekken 3 has been absolutely unstoppable, given Devil would have played a huge part into him being so powerful as well, however it's just boring...Tekken 3 Jin wins...Tekken 4 Jin didn't win, but he owns Kazuya and Heihachi (with Devil's help but still!), in Tekken 5 he beats Jinpachi (Again, with Devil's help, however come now!).
I love Jin, he's my main, and I'll be a Purist to always play him, however even Street Fighter had a far more enjoyable storyline by allowing other characters other then their posterboy Ryu to win it all.
Jin w/ Devil is virtually unstoppable from a storyline standpoint in the Tekken World. Like I said, it's Tekken 2 storyline all over again, Jin is corrupt, just like Kazuya was in Tekken 2, and he owns the Mishima Zaibatsu just like Kazuya did in Tekken 2. Now Kazuya is confronting Jin to be #1...just like Heihachi did with Kazuya in Tekken 2.
It feels like dejavu all over, however I'm hoping that Jin is only making it look like this, and not entirely for his own being. Seriously, I don't know the whole storyline anymore, because I've stopped playing, or listening to Tekken 6 a long, long time ago.
Would be cool if he was the First Mishima to not be a "I'm a badass dude!" mentality.
Originally posted by Zack FairIt just wouldn't make sense any other way. Tekken 3 is excusable. It's his first appearance like Lars' and Lars did a good job. If Heihachi or Kazuya won T4 I don't see how there would be a Tekken 5 (the world would have ended if Kazuya became complete/Hachi would have done God knows what with the Devil Gene...probably fail like with Ogre's genes). Hachi could not beat Jinpachi. Had Kazuya won and took over, it would be like T1-T2 again (pretty dumb). Why not give Jin one chance to take over and mess shit up? Besides, technically neither Jin or Azazel won. They both got owned..Jin just not by Azazel but by his own action.
Tekken 3: Rapes True Ogre. Tekken 4: Parades all over the Kazuya/Devil & Heihachi gauntlet. Tekken 5: Pisses on Jinpachi. Tekken 6: OMGWTFLOLZ oneshots Azazel.Sigh. Just ****ing name it Mishima Royale 7: Jin's bitches
Originally posted by SaTsuJiNThat is pretty much the reason. There is no better explanation to be honest.
isnt that because jin is the product of the sortof.. light and dark?.. (jun / kaz) maybe they'll try something interesting with him later on
Originally posted by JustFrame
The removal of individualism is that characters are all forced into doing juggles for their main damage. If you noticed, the best characters with the best juggles happen to "coincidentally" be the best characters as well. Pre-T5/6 this wasn't the case....(T4 Jin (bulldog), Nina (Runaway), Steve (Turtling), Tag with Mishima's (Juggles, pokes, wding, launchers), Ogres (Oki's Galore), Chang's (CH Queens) etc, etc).Take Tekken 4 for some crazy character individualism. Jin obviously being the most overpowered character in Tekken history had the best Mid-Hitting move, powerhouse bull dogging and the most dominant consistent juggle intact. You then go to Nina, her game revolved almost entirely upon her runaway form+Hiyashia, only once in a grand while would you see her juggle.
Steve in T4 relied on a super turtling defensive game, punishing you with his pokes on counterhits and destroying you in that nature. Lee was a rushdown bull dog monster, Ling with true AoP madness. Kazuya could no longer Ewgf launch 24/7 but could only launch upon CH, this made Kaz players utilize the counter-Ewgf hunting.
Okay, so Tekken 4 had a huge balance problem with T4 Jin being the most overpowered Legal Tekken tournament legal character of all time, however that doesn't devalue the fact that when you look at all of those characters, watch high level play, not one of them feels to play the same. This is what made Tekken interesting in fun in the older games, where as in Tekken 6, regardless of if I'm playing Jin, to Paul...everyone is looking for that juggle. I remember taking a trip down to Houston, playing against some solid, solid peeps...my goodness, everyone was fishing for launchers, it was ludicrious.
Even when seeing vast amounts of videos from the top dogs of Tekken around the world...it's such a joke to see everyone having to utilize this universal option. It's greatly devalued how you play and view Tekken, because now it's a priority for almost every character to have good juggles, where as in older ones, you could still play a Top-Tier to great, or solid w/o having to rely upon seeing your opponent in the air for 60% of their life.
There is no longer a large distinctive nature to player different character, sure, Ling may need to utilize a different move to launch, however the concept from her to Jin will be the same in this game. So although 5 "rounds" may make battles last longer, it doesn't take away from the fact that less strategy vs strategy is involved. Reasons why even the best Tekken players today say that a decent Tekken player can get lucky and get rounds, or even sets on them due to this fashion of play, however previous to this, you would only dream of it during your sleep.
However, Namco isn't just doing this...look to SF, look to KoF, look to many of them...they are all following these neutered water down trends...I swear, 10 yrs from now, you'll only need to push a button to do Ewgf, and twice to juggle if they continue onward with this kindergarten stuff.
I see why everyone juggling seems to destroy individualism for you but it is actually not much different than Street Fighters having (insert percentage here like it matters considering Tekken's handicap) draining super combos that are unblockable the instant you start getting hit by them (should now be similar as first getting launched in Tekken, but if they can be stopped, then SFHD, DOA and Soul Calibur which I'll mention later in the post are enough sufficient examples). People looking for stuns in Soul Calibur does not destroy fighter individualism on a factual level. What destroys individualism is in the brain. I've witnessed jugglefests in Tekken since 4 (even in practice these same juggle combos are there for you to use) but that simply means characters are in the air longer. This destroys character individualism? Not sure if everyone (yes, experienced players, not fanboys) will agree with this notion.
Fact is I see less character individualism in previous Tekkens. A lot of or most characters often have the same moves, let alone the ability to launch people in the air and continuously hit them. In all fighting games, usually the fastest hitting and unpredictable character will win. He's getting you to guess what he's going to do next and you're barely even hitting him at all if you cannot keep up. Have played Tekken, DOA and Soul Calibur for years. More individual moves, grabs and stances for each character in 6. It comes down to what you think makes a character unique. Someone thinks everyone being able to juggle or juggling being their best bet to win makes them the same. Well that is your definition of "the same". They still fight differently, have their own unique fighting styles, and as mentioned earlier, now more unique moves, and (although this may not count as much since it's an H2H game) unique weapons as well. 😛
Sorry man, if you think juggling makes everyone in Tekken the same in the sense you mean, that will be yours and even the majority's if this is the case, but I think they mean it is just the best way to win in the game. What does this have to do with the uniqueness of characters? Beats me, but I guess you also mean it's just the best way to win rounds. To be honest, I've played Street Fighters, and the best way to win in the most recent one I've played and bought on Live (HD Remix) was to execute combos which are unblockable as soon as the first hit lands, and fighting/grabbing as fast as possible. Yes this is much different than Tekken. In Soul Calibur, executing combos which, if the first hit lands then you are free to hit the opponent an x number of times afterwards and pulling off the fastest moves the character has. This is a lot different as well. In DOA, fighting as fast as possible, and stunning/launching the opponent, just as in Tekken and Soul Calibur (oh, do I ever mean stunning and launching) is also your best bet.
Just how many other ways can you win realistically? These are humans and/or figures fighting, with limbs. There's gravity, there's a floor, some walls, and so forth. Juggling is probably one of the first things that will come to mind considering physics, wall thrashing, grabbing, and unavoidable combos. All of these should come to mind and none of them have anything to do with how unique a character is. They will all (the characters) be able to hit you, grab you, launch you, attack you while you're in the air, but they will have unique ways of doing these. I know King and Marduk's aren't the same as everyone elses. They can grab you while you're airborne, as can Lars and Armor King. There's probably more who can do this. Hwoarang has a move specifically made for catching people in the air (soccer anyone?). Even with the juggles, they are not the same. I find it not reasonable to discount the many character stances, grabs (sometimes chain grabs), tactics (Heihachi's running sidestep, Dragunov and Baek's fakes...), above human abilities (Raven and Yoshi's teleporting, Devil Jin's flight and laser) all which create at least a fair amount of individualism, simply because characters now stay a second or two longer in the air and juggling is your best bet to deal the most amount of damage. So, whatever floats your boat mane.
Will not quote all of your statements entirely...
Originally posted by Shutter Control
Quote#1
Juggles were in fact in previous Tekken games, however the important aspect is that juggles were not always the best form of damage for many characters. King had way more beastly grab options in previous Tekken games then he does now, due to the fact that Grabs came out far faster, and were much more difficult to get out of. For Tekken 5 onward, if you ain't teching out of throws 80%+ of the time, you aren't a very solid player yet. However, due to his character change up, in T6 he's actually good in BR.
Dragunov's gameplay is solid, but not good, and this is testament to where he sits on the Tier List in contrast to others who have vastly superior crushes, launchers, juggle capabilities over him. Lei was 50x more monstrous in previous Tekken games in terms of his "ground play", he's only okay again, and like I said. This doesn't change anything again from the fact, that due to the Universal Options of Crushes, Launchers, Juggles+Bound, the best characters are the ones who can utilize this to the fullest. Just look at the Tier Listing again...where's a Top-Tier character that relies upon CH's as their #1 main source of damage? Where's one who relies solely upon punishing pokes? None.
Yet you say Tekken 6 has more character individual diversity?
Originally posted by Shutter Control
Quote#2
Street Fighter's supers were dumb in the first place and have devalued the forms of zoning and footsies since it's debut in ST. However in contrast to what has taken place in Tekken 6, it's worse for Tekken in contrast, because alot of the offense revolves entirely and completely upon this option. At least even in a game such as SF:IV, someone like Gouki who has no super reliable way of landing a Super/Ultra can still completely dominate with just sheer zoning, and footsies.
Tekken 6's juggles have destroyed alot of the individualism that was previously seen, however if I'm wrong, then why is everyone so bent on juggles? Again, name me one really super good character in Tekken 6 who doesn't rely upon juggles? You won't be able to give me one proper answer for it, I guarantee you.
In fact, give me your reason as to how Juggles "improved" character individuality in contrast to previous Tekken games? Yes, I want a straight answer from you on this.
All you need to do, see, experience, play against and watch that even at the highest levels, everyone is fishing for juggles. So if the highest levels of play are doing this...how has this improved better form to play a character differently? Another large factor that I completely forgot about in Tekken 6 was giving everyone 10-Frame Jabs...this devalued alot of other aspects that again made previous Tekken games interesting.
Ask any Nina, Law, Steve, Ling player what boundaries can be broken if they were given back 8-Framers again. Again, doesn't make any sense here, and to dispute this is ridiculous. Character individualism has been shanked in Tekken 6.
Originally posted by Shutter Control
Quote#3
Wait what????
First off, Soul Calibur's systems are drastically different then Tekken's trying to compare the two is insane. One game has a full on 8-Way Run, while the other simply does not (T4 although did share something to this, but that was the only Tekken game to do so). One has AC, a block button, Veritcal, horizontal attack, GI, while the other plays in a completely different way...how do the two even compare?
Not only that, but if you remember correctly, not all characters whom are super fast is usually the "best". Nightmare was a super solid character in SC1/2 and he was not even anywhere near one of the fastest in the game, Ivy was very strong, and she didn't even rely upon speed, but her Summon Suffering grabs to get the job done.
Mitsu was a powerhouse due to his WakeUp Games, "not" his speed. Xianghua is one of the few who relied upon speed, however ask anyone and they'll tell you that it's her ridiculous + frame advantages that made her so good for many games.
Want SF? Depends upon which one, however the best characters, have not always had the "fastest" movesets or movespeed period. Look to Sagat...since when was he ever particularly fast at all? Yet, in many games, he's usually solid, to powerful, or downright very dominant.
However you are generalizing everything, and not giving out any factual facts to prove your case, all you do is say "I play DoA, I play Tekken, I play SC"....yeah, so what? Tell me something about the actual game engine system itself that lends to your credibility, not just a generalization that can literally fall into almost all fighting games here.
Case and point, where do you not see a match up in Tekken 6 where jugggles aren't a dominant form of damage source for the majority of the characters (Those who can't utilize the juggle+bound system effectively are at the bottom of the barrel sadly)? Compare that to Tekken 4, where if I'm playing Paul, his biggest damages comes off of his 12's, D+1 murder rampages, stagger overheads, or his infamous foot stomp. The two don't even compare, heck, in Tekken 6, you can juggle off of a stupid wake up 3?! Seriously...a wake up 3?!
Just watch this simple example I show in front of you....
Tekken 6 DJ vs Bryan (The Bryan player literally almost won a round off of a stupid wake up 3...into juggle)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZUtGFeEKOM
Now watch this video from a game like Tekken 4
Jin vs Nina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8euLi3nx9TM&NR=1
Just those two matches from high level tournaments, you'll notice something drastically different in both games. In one particular game...Tekken 6, both characters are heavily emphasized into crushes, launchers, juggles+bound. While in the other, Tekken 4, you see more reliance's upon pokes, especially in particular to Nina who's main source of damage did not derive off of juggles, and she was ranked #2 in this game, only under Jin. With the absence of stupid high priority crushes, no bound system, or heavy notion to juggles, you see characters having forced to do other things.
Heck, why was Bob so good? Great Launchers, great crushes, great juggles+Bound. In Tekken 4...why was Nina so good? Great Runaway game, great 12 pokes, Hiyashida allowed stagger and gave her frame advantage.
[i]Quote#4[/B]
Comparisons to Street Fighter now? Firstly...what "unblockables" are you speaking of? String combos? If so, you are out of your mind. Firstly, zoning and footsies dominate SF more so then anything else (besides crappy SFIII). However, combos "do" come into play, only in more recent SF games, due to the nature of it being watered down, just like about almost every other fighting game currently out there.
So comparing Tekken to Street Fighter isn't the same, considering in SF, you can't keep a character in the air for 50-60% of their life, nor can you bounce a character off a wall, wallbound, bound etc, etc. Two very different engines.
Recent DoA games have a larger dependency upon juggles, however prior to this, in older DoA games, throws dominated the circuit and the stupid counterfesting. I don't know what in the world your trying to get into with comparisons to these games saying that Juggles need to be emphasized, however we are not talking about SC, DoA, or Street Fighter, we are talking about Tekken here.
Within previous Tekken games, there was more character individuality, meaning, characters could be good, and utilized in more effective ways outside of a huge dependency upon juggles, proof in it's statement from what was seen in T3, Tag, and even in T4, but devalued in T5, and especially into T6. Again, if you disagree with this notion, than you obviously need to play previous Tekken games like T3, Tag, or T4 enough to fully appreciate and value this factor in.
I will say this much though, because I didn't do so in previous post, Tekken 6 : BR is less garbage then then the original Tekken 6, however it's still no less devalued in contrast to previous Tekken games in terms of creativity in the players gameplay of the characters. The problem with Tekken 6, and it's a problem with nearly all fighting games currently out there, and that is the more importance you emphasize upon Universal Options, the more players will be forced to relying upon them as in turn to simply trying to utilize only the tools which was given to that character which would bring out more character individuality.