Cloud vs Squall

Squall maybe master a gunblade which is the most difficult weapon to master. IMO the real message is "the most difficult weapon in his own universe". But Cloud too is not someone who mastered a simple weapon. His sword is made of 7 sword combined together and he knows perfectly how and when to use two swords at once just like when he fought Loz and Yazoo, and later fought Sephiroth.

Maybe? He has mastered the Gunblade. Indeed, I never said in a different universe, I said that in Final Fantasy VIII is stated, also the Gunblade takes ages of training. But that's not really what I meant, I meant that Squall had very strict training since he was in a military academy, so it's obvious and that Cloud on the other hand had no special training and real experiences with swords until Zack's death. Cloud wielding the First Tsurugi in Advent Children doesn't mean in any way he's more capable than other swordsman, a good example is Sephiroth who owns him in many aspect just using a Katana, plus he has gained all the sword's experience through Final Fantasy VII, I'm just stating the difference between them in the beginning. Squall trained for years in a military academy and Cloud was experimented in a laboratory with no real experience with swords, end of the story.

which is also what was stated about quistis' whips and rinoah's blaster edge erm

What? Where in the game is stated that Quistis whip is a difficult weapon to master? Where in the game says that Rinoa's Blaster Edge is a difficult weapon to master...? The Gunblade is a difficult weapon to master, the only stated by the game itself, meaning the most difficult.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Maybe? He has mastered the Gunblade. Indeed, I never said in a different universe, I said that in Final Fantasy VIII is stated, also the Gunblade takes ages of training. But that's not really what I meant, I meant that Squall had very strict training since he was in a military academy, so it's obvious and that Cloud on the other hand had no special training and real experiences with swords until Zack's death. Cloud wielding the First Tsurugi in Advent Children doesn't mean in any way he's more capable than other swordsman, a good example is Sephiroth who owns him in many aspect just using a Katana, plus he has gained all the sword's experience through Final Fantasy VII, I'm just stating the difference between them in the beginning. Squall trained for years in a military academy and Cloud was experimented in a laboratory with no real experience with swords, end of the story

Clearly, you underestimate Cloud. Cloud might be a low class soldier but later in Advent children he defeat Rude and Reno with no problem before meet Rufus even though Cloud has no special training. Sephiroth also owned him with a very long katana and Sephiroth is a powerful creature to begin with. While Cloud is a normal soldier, Sephiroth is a high class soldier. And early in the game, he killed a giant snake and I'm not talking about AC Sephiroth. And mastering a giant sword consist of other 7 giant sword >>> mastering a gunblade.

Clearly, you underestimate Cloud.

No. In my first post in this forum I clearly stated that I think both characters are equal in terms of power, but that Squall can put more numbers than Cloud.

Cloud might be a low class soldier but later in Advent children he defeat Rude and Reno with no problem before meet Rufus even though Cloud has no special training.

Uh... In Advent Children Cloud fought against them? So you consider Cloud shutting a door in Reno's nose and then putting his sword in front of Rude's face a fight and a defeat for them? If you are taking the movie into consideration (as many fans does) You should know that Cloud already have real experiences with swords in that point, since he went through a lot in Final Fantasy VII and defeated Sephiroth. But, Cloud defeating Reno does mean he can defeat Squall? I think the answer is no.

While Cloud is a normal soldier, Sephiroth is a high class soldier. And early in the game, he killed a giant snake and I'm not talking about AC Sephiroth.

Cloud is a super-human. What if Sephiroth killed a giant snake? What all of that have to do between Cloud and Squall? Seifer mutilated Odin with a single slash, so...?

And mastering a giant sword consist of other 7 giant sword >>> mastering a gunblade.

However it is not stated that the First Tsurugi is a difficult weapon to master. That sword is like the Buster Sword in size, the difference is that contains different type of swords in its interior. If Cloud can wield the Buster Sword so it's obvious he would be able to wield those little swords. Nothing impressive. But Cloud can master the Masamune? Cloud can master the Gunblade? I doubt it. He received strict and special training since his childhood? He began training at the age of 13 when Squall at the age of 6. Cloud at the age of 16 the only thing he was wielding was a rifle. I do really think Squall is a more experienced swordsman than Cloud.

If FF8 had a movie like AC, I'm sure we'd see Squall do crazy stuff. After all, Ultimecia was compressing time & space, smashing planets at the party, and was able to absorb a character. She's the top FF villain before Dissidia's Chaos.

I would say Squall is equiv to Cloud as can be seen in the Squall vs Sephiroth in the opening of Dissidia.

This fight would end in some wierd PIS where they both win.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
If FF8 had a movie like AC, I'm sure we'd see Squall do crazy stuff. After all, Ultimecia was compressing time & space, smashing planets at the party, and was able to absorb a character. She's the top FF villain before Dissidia's Chaos.

Indeed, very good reasoning.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What? Where in the game is stated that Quistis whip is a difficult weapon to master? Where in the game says that Rinoa's Blaster Edge is a difficult weapon to master...? The Gunblade is a difficult weapon to master, the only stated by the game itself, meaning the most difficult.

now that i think about it the quote was actually along the lines of 'difficult for rinoah to master because of the massive knockback the edge has'

but apart from that im pretty sure it was mentioned in the game 😬

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
1. No. In my first post in this forum I clearly stated that I think both characters are equal in terms of power, but that Squall can put more numbers than Cloud.

2. Uh... In Advent Children Cloud fought against them? So you consider Cloud shutting a door in Reno's nose and then putting his sword in front of Rude's face a fight and a defeat for them? If you are taking the movie into consideration (as many fans does) You should know that Cloud already have real experiences with swords in that point, since he went through a lot in Final Fantasy VII and defeated Sephiroth. But, Cloud defeating Reno does mean he can defeat Squall? I think the answer is no.

3. Cloud is a super-human. What if Sephiroth killed a giant snake? What all of that have to do between Cloud and Squall? Seifer mutilated Odin with a single slash, so...?

4. However it is not stated that the First Tsurugi is a difficult weapon to master. That sword is like the Buster Sword in size, the difference is that contains different type of swords in its interior. If Cloud can wield the Buster Sword so it's obvious he would be able to wield those little swords. Nothing impressive. But Cloud can master the Masamune? Cloud can master the Gunblade? I doubt it. He received strict and special training since his childhood? He began training at the age of 13 when Squall at the age of 6. Cloud at the age of 16 the only thing he was wielding was a rifle. I do really think Squall is a more experienced swordsman than Cloud.

1. OK

2. He react on Rude's action right before Rude attack him. Besides, even if you don't count that, Cloud is much stronger than Rude and Reno (IMO) combined together. He managed to fight on par with Loz and Yazoo together while Rude and Reno toyed by Loz and Yazoo. And when did I said Rude and Reno > Squall? I agreed that Cloud can use his sword because of experience.

3. I'm talking about earlier Sephiroth. In AC, Sephiroth is far more powerful. It's stated in the official book "Reunion Files" the Sephiroth seen in Advent Children has "ascended to a new level of existence" and is much stronger than before. Advent Children producer Yoshinori Kitase has said "Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him."

4. If you said so, then please explain to me what makes Gunblade really difficult to master. Like FWahMan said, Cloud swung FT as fast as Squall and swing first tsurugi so fast that it can parry a bullet. Remember, first tsurugi itself is a sword consist of 7 giant swords.

He react on Rude's action right before Rude attack him. Besides, even if you don't count that, Cloud is much stronger than Rude and Reno (IMO) combined together. He managed to fight on par with Loz and Yazoo together while Rude and Reno toyed by Loz and Yazoo. And when did I said Rude and Reno > Squall? I agreed that Cloud can use his sword because of experience.

So for you that was a fight? That's what I'm asking. You are misunderstanding, I didn't said Reno, I said Cloud. Just because Cloud defeated Reno or Rude does that mean he can defeat Squall...? Because you are putting Reno and Rude as an example of Cloud's capabilities. And What's "IMO" ?

I'm talking about earlier Sephiroth. In AC, Sephiroth is far more powerful. It's stated in the official book "Reunion Files" the Sephiroth seen in Advent Children has "ascended to a new level of existence" and is much stronger than before. Advent Children producer Yoshinori Kitase has said "Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him."

I know you're talking about Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII. I don't think Sephiroth from Advent Children is more powerful than Safer Sephiroth since Cloud needed his entire party to defeat him. Then Yoshinori Kitase contradict himself, because Sephiroth is dead now. I do believe Sephiroth is a better swordsman and warrior than Cloud and that in a fight he would win, but his arrogance is the key to his own demise. By the way, what Squall have to do with this? What is the meaning of bringing Sephiroth? You said he killed a giant snake, SO?

If you said so, then please explain to me what makes Gunblade really difficult to master. Like FWahMan said, Cloud swung FT as fast as Squall and swing first tsurugi so fast that it can parry a bullet. Remember, first tsurugi itself is a sword consist of 7 giant swords.

Your question is: "what makes Gunblade really difficult to master" ? Are you serious...? How the hell I should know? Why don't you ask the producers and creators of why they stated it in the game? Then I could ask to you, why Sephiroth's hair is long? Why he never cut it? That's irrelevant, if you want me to ask to that question it would be assumptions from my part which is useless. It is stated in Final Fantasy VIII that the Gunblade is a difficult weapon to master, end of the story. If they didn't stated that the Buster Sword or the First Tsurugi are difficult weapons to master, I'm not to blame. What if it's composed by 20 swords? That makes Cloud a better swordsman? I already gave the example of Sephiroth, a weapon isn't important, the warrior is. Cloud blocking bullets means nothing, you should know that he isn't the only Final Fantasy character that fought enemies with guns, like all of the fan-boys, they always argue using Advent Children's feats and technology as defense, do you really think that the other Final Fantasy characters (including Squall of course) Wouldn't do what Cloud does in Advent Children?

The new argument seems interesting but there are too many paragraphs for me to even bother reading.

I'm still sticking iwth squall although I think my initial vote was Cloud

Good lord people, pay attention to the story of Dissidia, it's quite apparent that it's canon. Even without the Ultimania treating it as canon, telling us how it ties into the stories of the original games, the fact that it is a prequel to FF 1 and is used to expand on that games story make it official.

-Then there's the fact that the Dissidia Ultimania explains that Sephiroth wants the heroes to succed in defeating Chaos so everything will go back to normal so he could get back to his Geostigma plan.

-Squall directly mentions his promise to Rinoa, a promise which
happens in FF VIII, meaning he is the real Squall from that universe.

-In KH the FF characters are from Hollow Bastion or other locations in the KH universe, in Dissidia they are all from their own separate universes and return there upon defeating Chaos.

-Takeshi Arakawa, director of Dissidia said, "As a rule we were extremely careful to treat DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY as a genuine entry in the FINAL FANTASY series."

I could keep going on but this is enough information to lay it to rest. Dissidia is canon, that's a simple fact.

If Dissidia it's canon or not, this is off topic, this is Cloud Vs. Squall, we should create a new topic. Well, whatever...

If Dissidia is canon, then there are obviously a lot of inexplicable things. The game basically represents each characters and obviously their original stories like Squall talking about his promise or seeing how each one's ending is related to their original stories, but this doesn't mean is a solid continuity of each universe. What about Cloud's appearance in Final Fantasy Tactics? That's also considered canon? I'll keep asking the same question over again, in which part of each character's story-line they were introduced into Dissidia? If this IS canon, there must be an explanation for it. The only logical answer I find, is that never happened. This is just a game for the Final Fantasy series 20th anniversary, that's a fact. And where I can find the Dissidia Ultimania? I saw many people talks about it but no one has provided proof.

What about the Ivalice Alliance? All of those games could be considered canon to each one? I think no. Don't misunderstand, I REALLY want Dissidia to be canon, but nothing of what have been said seems to be convincing enough.

The time the characters were taken from their universes is of literally no consequence. Chaos destroyed the universes of the series, saving only the villains that he pulled from their universes and the stages representing each universe. Cosmos pulled the heroes from the shattered remnants of these universes to help her out. When Chaos was defeated and everything was returned to how it was before the cycle the heroes reappeared in their universes as if nothing happened, just like how the universes themselves reappeared as if they were never destroyed.

Dissidia is canon, get over it.

This is Cloud Vs. Squall, I'll respond to your argument in the other topic.

I don't know if one can be put over the other. Cloud might be the founding father for all over the top sword attacks in the Final Fantasys after it but Squall is just awesome. One was actually trained to battle and mastered a very difficult weapon while the other pretty much had his power given to him. I don't think Cloud's supersoldier status gives him a solid advantage over Squall however Squall would find it pretty difficult to fight Cloud.

So I don't know;it a draw until one is proven superior over the other.

Squall would find it pretty difficult to fight Cloud.

As Cloud would find it pretty difficult to fight Squall.
Like I said, for me both are equal in terms of power, if we're talking about physical strength I'll give it to Cloud since it's obvious, he seems to have more of it and probably more endurance I don't know. But Squall is also capable of demolishing giant monsters with his Gunblade.

The argument that Cloud can wield more type of swords means nothing since Sephiroth wields just one and owns Cloud.

Cloud has got Mako and Jenova Cell enhancements.
Squall has got training for almost all of his life and GF's enhancements.

I think Squall is a better swordsman. This could be a draw, but Squall can put more victories than Cloud, hands down.

I wonder if the gunblade is capable of firing off shots without contacting a person? hmm

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Why? Cloud is the real push over here. The guy couldn't even make it to SOLDIER. Squall became the commanding officer of SeeD at 17 years of age etc. Cloud simply has one fancy movie which lets him perform like a maniac. All we have to compare fight-wise are Squall's FFVIII intro which is way, way, way dated when compared to Advent Children.

Cloud has been genetically enhanced, though. Squall has not. Plus, Cloud beat Sephiroth by himself.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
I wonder if the gunblade is capable of firing off shots without contacting a person? hmm

It is. I believe he does it during Ran... whatever his special was called.

I think he does it a few times in Dissidia to.

The gunblade doesn't fire off shots, pulling it's trigger sets off a blank round that sends a shockwave down the blade, making the slash more powerful, but it fires no projectiles.