Solid Snake VS Nightwing

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No, but he sure as hell could dodge everything Fox dodged in those videos...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Snake was able to dodge it, and like I have already showed, Nightwing's dodging feats >>> Snake's dodging feats.

Look, that Snake never jumps like an acrobat doesn't mean he is slower, it is just not his style coz he'd look embarrassing. Still the fact is that even without using funnylooking acrobatic tricks he manage not to get injured in so many danger situations.

Originally posted by Sam Z
He could dodge Rex for sometime but he'll get tired soon and Rex's guns will follow him whenever he goes, so he'll get killed pretty fast.

He could dodge Rex as long as Fox did there. Hell, it was only like one minute.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Let's see. There were atleast 30 of them, even if to assume one fired only one bullet that'd be a lot. Why, there are a lot of ways of dodging bullets if there is no cover nearby?

Well, who knows that Snake just didn't open fire at them right away. That would sure mess up the shooting of other people. Or maybe Snake waited for some time before opening fire. We don't have a way of knowing. But I am pretty sure that he didn't drop the gun and started dodging there...

Again, most dodging feats of Snake I have actually seen are him running in some point and shooting back at the opponent...

Originally posted by Sam Z
And Liquid Snake wasn't knocked out even when he was blown by stinger inside of the helicopter, and inside of the tank.

During the course of Snake's mission, he is confronted by Liquid on several occasions. Initially, Liquid attacks Snake from a Hind D attack helicopter, but retreats when his helicopter is crippled by Snake's missile fire from his Stinger. He survives (his parachute is visible on a tree in the Snowfield of the base)

I'm sure that Nightwing could survive too if you gave him a parachute...

Originally posted by Sam Z
Stop looking at Snake and BB as just of trained Soldiers because they are not. I doubt NW could take The Boss h2h. If you remeber her then you know why. Actually nothing NW did compete with the Boss. And I'm not only talking about her fighting technique.

I remember her. I've played the game through many times.

Tell me, what makes her better then Nightwing?

And Big Boss is a trained soldier. HIGHLY trained, but still a normal human.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You think that "knowing" more martial arts means you are a better combatant? The Boss would pwn Batman with all his over 100 martial arts like there is no tommorow.

Did I say anything about knowing? 🤨

No. Batman's martial art FEATS, people he has beaten, things he has accomplished etc. simply pwn them both. Especially if we bring out ALL his feats, even the PIS ones.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Look, that Snake never jumps like an acrobat doesn't mean he is slower, it is just not his style coz he'd look embarrassing. Still the fact is that even without using funnylooking acrobatic tricks he manage not to get injured in so many shotouts.

Like I said before, the game only featured few shootouts. Nightwing has still had more of them, and more impressive ones.

Originally posted by Sam Z

But first sword of superstrong and superfast cyberninja.

Not faster then things he has dodged in the past. Like I said, its only one fast moving object. Nightwing has dodged hundreds in the same time in past.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No, but he sure as hell could dodge everything Fox dodged in those videos...

No, but we don't know how much bullets were shoot at him, what angle, how he dodged them etc.

He is lying unconscious because a bomb exploded in his face, not a punch. And it's not the only beating he took and got out with no harm:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5043/takingabeat6yy.gif
And he took that beating voluntarily.

Those million volts were not apparently enough to take out a highly trained soldier, so I doubt that they have anything against Nightwing. Maybe if he used the electricity with a bit more thinking. But Nightwing can do anything Big Boss can do, he can do some stuff even better. Volgin will lose.

Nothing that I have seen from the Boss implys that she could defeat Nightwing either.

The Boss wasn't THE best martial artist in the world. Big Boss and The Boss are absolutely nothing compared to martial art knowledge of Batman. And you do NOT want me to compare their martial art feats with Batman. Because they would be curbstomped in such a many ways that we would need to invent a new number for it.

But nothing that I have seen from the sword implies that Nightwing could not dodge it. It wouldn't be the first sword he has dodged/catched in his hands...

Snake was able to dodge it, and like I have already showed, Nightwing's dodging feats >>> Snake's dodging feats.

👆 exactly, Batman will serve Big Boss and Boss at the same time, Nightwing martial art feats are up their with Batman, only people that are better than nightwing is lady Shiva, Batgirl, David Cane, Deathstroke, Batman. Nightwing is too much for snake, Nightwing has fought the best super soldier in Deathstroke and he will beat snake within inch of his life.

Let me put in a way that some of you hard core MGS can understand here is Deathstroke
http://img203.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teentitans5pyratep02034iv.jpg
He is capable of seeing and fighting Flashes and on more than one occasion made them look like complete idiots.
http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sladeflash3ea.jpg
Here is slade owning Batman who is one the best MA in the world
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/5300/batmanvsdeathstroke37gx.gif
http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/4384/batmanvsdeathstroke44hz.gif
And now see how Nightwing does against him
http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page000116pu.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page000129pt.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page000139mg.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page000144ae.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page000153lz.jpg
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page000165tz.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page000175sa.jpg
That's why Nightwing would completely destroy Snake.

http://media.psp.ign.com/media/821/821970/vid_1496181.html Ninja speed at the end.

Wait... How is a peak human faster than an enhanced human?

Did you notice Cyber Ninja parrying the machine gun fire? Not just dodgeing the ****ing aim of the gun like most "dodge bullets" feats go, but he's parrying it, meaning he's deflecting it with his sword... that's right a sword not just a spinning staff. But a katana.

Now tell me how is Nightwing faster than an enhanced human?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Wait... How is a peak human faster than an enhanced human?

Did you notice Cyber Ninja parrying the machine gun fire? Not just dodgeing the ****ing aim of the gun like most "dodge bullets" feats go, but he's parrying it, meaning he's deflecting it with his sword... that's right a sword not just a spinning staff. But a katana.

Now tell me how is Nightwing faster than an enhanced human?

I know that Ninja's hands move faster. But dodging? No, Nightwing would be able to duplicate every dodging feat he has done there. Ninja hasn't dodged anything that Nightwing wouldn't be able to dodge.

And peak human in comics isn't the same that peak human in real world, isn't it?

snake

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He could dodge Rex as long as Fox did there. Hell, it was only like one minute.

Deardevil possibly could too, but comparing their speed is still not right.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, who knows that Snake just didn't open fire at them right away. That would sure mess up the shooting of other people. Or maybe Snake waited for some time before opening fire. We don't have a way of knowing. But I am pretty sure that he didn't drop the gun and started dodging there...[/B]

I never said he droped the gun, that's not his style. But I highly doubt he shot ALL of them before they opned fire.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Again, most dodging feats of Snake I have actually seen are him running in some point and shooting back at the opponent... [/B]

Actually whenever he dodges bullets in cutsences it's usually just dodging without running like in fight with Olga for example.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I'm sure that Nightwing could survive too if you gave him a parachute...
.[/B]

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I remember her. I've played the game through many times.

Tell me, what makes her better then Nightwing?

And Big Boss is a trained soldier. HIGHLY trained, but still a normal human.[/B]

Even Big Boss hardly could be called a NORMAL human.
You thing that is what just higly trained soldier could do?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4qgdXLf6p1I&search=The%20Boss

Ocelot killed 5 soldiers with the gun within the second. Solid Snake is as good as Ocelot when it comes to shooting. Big Boss was a Snake's prototype. Now think how much time it would take Big Boss to pull the trigger. She've been standing like 10 feet away from him, ran directly at him and unarmed him before he fired and look at his face, he knew she was going to attack. And this is what highly trained soldier could do? I'm sure NW would be able to run DIRECTLY at pointed at him gun and unarm enemy but not when his enemy is someone like Big Boss who is as good at shooting as Ocelot.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Did I say anything about knowing? 🤨

No. Batman's martial art FEATS, people he has beaten, things he has accomplished etc. simply pwn them both. Especially if we bring out ALL his feats, even the PIS ones.[/B]

Bringing PIS isn't really the best idea coz it would only disrespect Batman. If not PIS all his techique seems not at all more EFFECTIVE than CQC.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

Like I said before, the game only featured few shootouts. Nightwing has still had more of them, and more impressive ones. [/B]

No wonder he had more, how many years DC has been publishing his books? And as for more impressive during the two games Snake went through situations that could be compared to the most impressive NW's issues. I'm not talking about PIS though.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Not faster then things he has dodged in the past. Like I said, its only one fast moving object. Nightwing has dodged hundreds in the same time in past.

Venom's fist is also a one object only, still Spider-man couldn't dodge it but he also dodged bullets at the same time.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I know that Ninja's hands move faster. But dodging? No, Nightwing would be able to duplicate every dodging feat he has done there. Ninja hasn't dodged anything that Nightwing wouldn't be able to dodge.

And peak human in comics isn't the same that peak human in real world, isn't it?

NW could NOT move as fast as Fox. Making simmilar feats and moving with the same speed are different things.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I know that Ninja's hands move faster. But dodging? No, Nightwing would be able to duplicate every dodging feat he has done there. Ninja hasn't dodged anything that Nightwing wouldn't be able to dodge.

And peak human in comics isn't the same that peak human in real world, isn't it?

I don't think you understand.

Ninja was the equivilent of peak human via martial arts like Nightwing, BEFORE he is enhanced further.

Cyber Ninja is like enhanced peak human.

Now are we going to have to draw a comparison to peak human Wolverine and not peak but enhanced human Spiderman speeds?

Cause I'm sure you know that an enhanced human speed is faster than peak human speed, and a enhanced peak human would be even faster... right?

Spiderman (enhanced human) is faster than Wolverine (Peak Human)
Cyber Ninja (Enhanced Peak Human) is faster than Nightwing (Peak human)

You get it? Or are we really going to have to resort to pointing out that you are having fanboy arguments about how your character can do whatever my character can without any explination?

Think about it even with the little bit you confessed about his hands being faster, you don't think that would help him?

Do you think Nightwing is as fast as Spiderman? I mean After all Nightwing is a peak human and Spiderman is an enhanced human... right?

And peak human in comics isn't the same that peak human in real world, isn't it?

I understand that you guys like Gray Fox and why not, he is a cool character. But you have absolutly no grounds to stand on when saying that he is faster then Nightwing. Frank's one impressive speed feat has been matched and even surpassed by Dick on several occasions. So what makes him faster? Even if Frank was peak human (which he wasn't) before he was bonded with the exoskeleton and doesn't equate to him being the equal to a peak human from DC comics now does it?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I understand that you guys like Gray Fox and why not, he is a cool character. But you have absolutly no grounds to stand on when saying that he is faster then Nightwing. Frank's one impressive speed feat has been matched and even surpassed by Dick on several occasions. So what makes him faster? Even if Frank was peak human (which he wasn't) before he was bonded with the exoskeleton and doesn't equate to him being the equal to a peak human from DC comics now does it?

But Fox really was moving almost as fast as the bullets he was dodging.
I don't think NW moves THAT fast coz it would make him as fast as Spider-man. 😕

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I understand that you guys like Gray Fox and why not, he is a cool character. But you have absolutly no grounds to stand on when saying that he is faster then Nightwing.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B] Even if Frank was peak human (which he wasn't) before he was bonded with the exoskeleton and doesn't equate to him being the equal to a peak human from DC comics now does it?

I'm sorry why is DC's peak humans automatically GREATER than the MGS peak humans? HMMMMMM?

No seriously...

Iknow DC comics are cool and all but just because they're cool does not automatically make them better.

I'm on the verge of calling you a fanboy just for that spout of "coolness" argument.

Because obviously DC peak humans are stronger than MGS peak humans just because it's DC...

yeah that doesn't sound objectively non-biased does it?

Originally posted by Creshosk
You mean aside from the fact that he's enhanced peak human? You know peak human like nightwing via the martial arts then further enhanced by the suit and such?

No no. YOU have no grounds for saying that Nightwing is faster or even as fast as Fox.

None.

What possible reasoning could you possible have?

"They both dodge machine gun fire."

And?

Flash and Wolverine both dodge machine gun fire.
Spiderman and Nightwing both dodge machine gun fire.

Guess what though? That doesn't make the lot of the just as fast as one another.

This is what I'm talking about.

"They both dodge machine gun fire the must be the same speed!"

Enhanced peak human versus peak human

Or would a regular human be as fast as an enhanced human?

Oh yes obviously because all mediums are weighted based on how cool they are and not logic.

I'm sorry why is DC's peak humans automatically GREATER than the MGS peak humans? HMMMMMM?

No seriously...

Iknow DC comics are cool and all but just because they're cool does not automatically make them better.

I'm on the verge of calling you a fanboy just for that spout of "coolness" argument.

Because obviously DC peak humans are stronger than MGS peak humans just because it's DC...

yeah that doesn't sound objectively non-biased does it?

Sure is alot of words to write and still end up saying nothing...

And this "coolness" arguement is the entire foundation of the Gray Fox is faster then Nightwing arguement. Simple minded people see bullet dodging rendered in 3d animation and they wet themselves. I know it looks cooler then the single freeze frame that you get in a comic panel but it doesn't change the fact that the feats are equally impressive.

The basis of your argument requires one to assume that MGS Peakhuman = DC/Marvel Peak human but that just isn't the case.

"Because Frank is an enhanced peak human (which he isn't by the way) he must be faster then Nightwing who is only peak human."

You use these labels that are placed on characters like they somehow mean something. Feats speak louder then words and the feats say that Nightwing is at least as fast as Gray Fox... if you are going to continue to try an argue this you need something better then "Nuh-uh 'cause Gray Fox is Enhanced-Peak Human!" because it means nothing.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...Nightwing is at least as fast as Gray Fox...

Still ❌

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Sure is alot of words to write and still end up saying nothing...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And this "coolness" arguement is the entire foundation of the Gray Fox is faster then Nightwing arguement.

but you know had you read what I typed rather than just saying I said nothing... you might have had a valid point... but you know strawman arguments of making a straw man as an opponent and having him say the things you either wanted me to say, or think that I was saying... in this case I imagine it was something like

"OMG GEY FX IZ T3H KOL!"

Is really rather invalid considering I never said anything about which I thought was "OMG t3h KOL".

Cause personally, I think that Night wing's character design is much cooler. But you know, this ain't a coolness contest, so sorry DC doesn't auto-win like you implied. 🙂

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Simple minded people see bullet dodging rendered in 3d animation and they wet themselves.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I know it looks cooler then the single freeze frame that you get in a comic panel but it doesn't change the fact that the feats are equally impressive.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The basis of your argument requires one to assume that MGS Peakhuman = DC/Marvel Peak human

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
but that just isn't the case.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
"Because Frank is an enhanced peak human

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
(which he isn't by the way)

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
he must be faster then Nightwing who is only peak human."

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You use these labels that are placed on characters like they somehow mean something.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Feats speak louder then words and the feats say that Nightwing is at least as fast as Gray Fox...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
if you are going to continue to try an argue this you need something better then "Nuh-uh 'cause Gray Fox is Enhanced-Peak Human!" because it means nothing.

"Marvel/DC are automatically better than MGS"

I'm not the one that's arguing from Coolness. cause I didn't say that one companies peak humans were better than another.. without explanation... So before you lecture me on arguing styles. I suggest you look to yourself and fix your own flawed fanboyish arguing.

And next time? Try actually reading whats written. IT works wonders for your credibility. 🙂

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The basis of your argument requires one to assume that MGS Peakhuman = DC/Marvel Peak human but that just isn't the case.

I challenge ANYBODY to tell me how that statement isn't biased to all hell.

Can anyone tell me why MGS peak humans are less than Marvel or DC peak humans?

Anyone? Can anyone tell me how that's not biased honestly?