DOA vs Tekken

Originally posted by Sam Z
Sometimes I honostly don't understand your points Blue Nocturne, You say that I'm now must prove that he can't because you countered my "original" english mistake? But I corrected myself long ago but you still pretend you haven't noticed. So my question is clear. I ask you to prove that Ryu can dodge this attack, and when you say that "looking" has nothing to do with that attack you don't prove anything. So i want you to prove that Ryu can.

I know you corrected what you said, so therefore your original argument is not valid. what I'm trying to tell you is that since you corrected it your argument has changed. It's no longer the same so I'm asking you what your new argument is. I'm gonna take aguess and say it's generally the same, basically your saying kazuya can focus to fast for ryu? the problem is ryu is in motion therefore he's harder to hit and plus kazuya has only used it once against someone who you can't even compare in terms of speed with ryu. So how are you sure it will hit him?

Originally posted by Sam Z

Not true. It wasn't that way. I said Ryu would have to fight all at the same time, and when he is hit by people with distance attacks it leaves him open to be attacked by other fighters. And since this is forum we assume all characters would fight as a good team so some of them wont stand on the way of others with distance attacks, and it leaves Ryu open. Or they may just wait untill Ryu gets hit by people with distance attacks, as i said there are many ways.

Your misinformed again, ryu is only open if he's hit while his gaurd is up. If it's broken then he can roll out of that a stun state. the only attacks that can hit ryu if he uses art of the firewheels are projectiles. if he flies using a piece of the earth as a medium it makes it even harder. jinpaichi can't fly and his stun attack has never been proven to work on airborne opponents. he could fly around using ninpo like art of the inferno to hit his grounded opponents. if kazuya, jin and ogre attack him he could hold his own.

Originally posted by Sam Z

We both agreed that to hit someone Kazuya has to focus on opponents so if he focuses on Ryu only the result would be the same, and even easier it would be if there wont be anyone on his way and since they fight as the team they wont distruct each other.

The circummstances kazuya used his tk was against a motionless heiachi, whose spees is not comparable with heiachi. and how would kazuya hit ryu if he catches those ten tekken fighters you said would jump him at once in the art of the ice storm?

Originally posted by Sam Z

Clear shot of what? Of paralization? It would work even if there are someone except Ryu, and using them all as shield is also would only work if we assume thjat Ryu fights idiots, but they are not, if they see they can't attack him they would leave it to guys that can and only then when Ryu is distructed or hurt they can finish the job.

1) when has jinpachi locked on a target with his stun move during a meele

2.you Said ten tekken fighters would jump ryu at the same time so explain how they would escape an attack that comes out instantly and is perfect for a counter attack?

Originally posted by Sam Z
Pfft, i forgot one post i said 10 pages and one month ago and you can't remember your posts that you said 2 or 3 pages ago like couple days ago, if you have something to be proud about it is definitely not your memory. And I usually bring videos to back up my words about this thread and I brought many of them, are you going to argue that too? 🙄

What does that have to do with a claim you never provided an argument for, You said jin could beat ryu just like you said paul could beat a majority of doa fighter 1 on 1, just like you said hworang could do the same as paul, so back up your argument?

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Originally posted by Sam Z

😂 Man and you say I'm desperate. If you had nothing else to put on your list of "things that i haven't proved" you should've just leaved Paul argument. Because you asked about feats and you got them, and now you say I haven't proved something you never asked me to prove.

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Originally posted by Sam Z
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👆 first you say that I use this logic, then you call it stupid, and then you admitt you use it more often than me. And please post some links where Ryu shows speed greater than Yoshi or Raven, not that i don't trust you, i just wanna see..

I did iberian warrior.com

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Originally posted by Sam Z
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I don't care what you think about my explanation because I did what i wanted. I asked you to give me list of things I haven't proved and you said that i didn't proved that Jin would defeat Ryu even though you never asked me to prove that, you asked me to prove that Hwoarang can beat 1 on 1, even though you BEFORE never asked me to prove that, and you asked me to prove that Yoshi is faster than Ryu even though i never said he is fastER. So your list leaves only Paul 1 on 1, and my list of things you haven't proved remains as it was except for the KOed T-rex that i was asking you to prove for many pages(btw in the video there was only him kicking t-rex and it didn't showed him uncouncious). So yes, i did what i wanted.

No it does not leave us at paul vs doa 1 on 1, you made claims about jin and hworang hell you made claims about jin blast so back it up. And I knew you would complain about the video, So show me jinpachi destroying the world because the video I saw just said the world would never be the same.

Originally posted by Sam Z
😆 Says the guy who saw Jun's head in tekken 3 INTRO. 😂

And you still have yet to successfully dispute it, or have you conceded this point?

[QUOTE=6940881]Originally posted by Sam Z
[B]That's lies DZ. In his prologue it's nothing said that he "unlearned" it and this is also a BS because, you can't unlearn the whole fighting style you've been learning for years. If you don't trust me ask anybody else who've been training martial arts. I'm not even talking about your hillarious point that it is not canon because Jin fights in Mishima style even though he clearly uses traditianal karate. Since you have tekken 5 pick Roger Jr. and you'll see him doing absolutly simillar upercought, by your own damn logic it means he fights in Mishima fighting style.

Yeah right🙄

Tekken 4 opening dialogue for Jin says otherwise. "Thanks to the Dojo Masters Training, Jin was able to Unlearn the Mishima Ryu Fighting Style"

Originally posted by Sam Z
You calleed it proof and it is as worthless as all your other "proofs". He wears same clothes as Devil Jin during story mode, so this is another failed try.

Ok, I forgot I mentioned that, so let me reiterate, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NORMAL JIN HERE, NOT DEVIL JIN! How many times must I say this before it penetrates... 😠

Originally posted by Sam Z
I knew you'll say this and this is cheap excuse. Why then it is said ONLY in Jin's prologue? What an interesting coincidence! Why then in Paul's prologue it's nothing said about Journey or in Kazuya's?

Tell me, what does this prove one way or the other? your excuse is even more cheap than mine is, simply because it's his story mode prologue and nothing to do with Devil Within... Thta alone is proof enouh that they are talking about the actual tekken tournament and not Devil Within.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Point 1: Both Jin and Roger Jr. fight in Mishima fighting style because they have simillar uppercought. 🙄

Bullcrap because [B]Jin fights in traditianal karate and the more you'll gonna argue that the more you are getting embarrassed/

Point 2: You started this "facianation" and then forgot about it, and that is your problem. I'm not even talking that this is hillarious "proof".

Jin has same clothes as in story mode

Point 3: No proofs of Ogre's death - he just dissapeared after being defeated by Jin. No proof of Jun's dead - except for the black big thing in ARCADE MODE video and that is pffffft.

So what points I have. 1) Right fighting style. 2) Right clothes 3) Story mode that confirms that Jin went to a Journey. 4) Same reasons as in stroy mode, he tries to get rid of gevil gene because he hates it as said in his tekken 4 prologue. So if you are done whining... [/B]

Point #1: Roger does not have a similar upercut for starters... try the f, n, d, df + RP to see the actual move i'm talking about in game with any Mishima including Devil Jin, Then tell me why Normal Jin does not posess this technique outside of Devil Within after Tekken 3.

Point #2: No, because for some strange reason he's wearing Devil Jins clothes as Normal Jin...But you brought it back up so now the onus of proof lies with you to explain why, which you didn't do back then and still not doing now.

Point #3: Ogre was dead at the time he vanished, this was stated in Heihachi's Tekken 4 intro, Jun's death has been confirmed since tekken 3 when Jin went to Heihachi, And it had been stated that Ogre had killed Jun, Thats one of the things Namco won't retroactively change, Same with Ogre.

How the tell do you beat tekken 5.0 steve fox ?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
It was actually 2 more scenario's, where did you get attacks from?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

He's faster than a bird and can fly 200 feet in seconds based on what?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

And jinpachi's stun move can't hit you everywhere only from a certain distance and on the ground,hell if your flying with devil jin for example he can't hit you. Oh and I forgot to mention ryu can fly.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

and jinpachi's speed isn't a threat really compared to a guy who defeated 2 exact copies of himself and 2 ancient greater feinds with that have speed comparable with him at once.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

I gave you 2 arguments a several pages ago that had to do with teleportation and a object in motion.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

This is an attack that kazuya used only against heiachi and K.O.ed him that tells us so much. It was SOOO fast soemone like heiachi (whose sped isn't comparable to ryu and barely anybody in tekken for that matter) Could not dodge it 😆

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

A little furious? does jin normally destroy forest for fun?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

How does that explain how he's gonna get a clear shot of ryu when his teammates are caught in aartic vortex with huge shards and foggy winds?
Again sam-z how would kazuya's tk avoid hitting everyone else if they are all caught in ryu's ninpo?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

...Sam-z he simply says he will destroy the world and it says the world won't be the same how does that validate he destroyed the world?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

And the time freezing is from the previously retconned ninja gaiden series.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
I know you corrected what you said, so therefore your original argument is not valid. what I'm trying to tell you is that since you corrected it your argument has changed. It's no longer the same so I'm asking you what your new argument is. I'm gonna take aguess and say it's generally the same, basically your saying kazuya can focus to fast for ryu? the problem is ryu is in motion therefore he's harder to hit and plus kazuya has only used it once against someone who you can't even compare in terms of speed with ryu. So how are you sure it will hit him?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Your misinformed again, ryu is only open if he's hit while his gaurd is up. If it's broken then he can roll out of that a stun state. the only attacks that can hit ryu if he uses art of the firewheels are projectiles. if he flies using a piece of the earth as a medium it makes it even harder. jinpaichi can't fly and his stun attack has never been proven to work on airborne opponents. he could fly around using ninpo like art of the inferno to hit his grounded opponents. if kazuya, jin and ogre attack him he could hold his own.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

The circummstances kazuya used his tk was against a motionless heiachi, whose spees is not comparable with heiachi. and how would kazuya hit ryu if he catches those ten tekken fighters you said would jump him at once in the art of the ice storm?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

1) when has jinpachi locked on a target with his stun move during a meele

2.you Said ten tekken fighters would jump ryu at the same time so explain how they would escape an attack that comes out instantly and is perfect for a counter attack?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
What does that have to do with a claim you never provided an argument for, You said jin could beat ryu just like you said paul could beat a majority of doa fighter 1 on 1, just like you said hworang could do the same as paul, so back up your argument?

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Originally posted by Blue nocturne

I did iberian warrior.com

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Originally posted by Blue nocturne

No it does not leave us at paul vs doa 1 on 1, you made claims about jin and hworang hell you made claims about jin blast so back it up. And I knew you would complain about the video, So show me jinpachi destroying the world because the video I saw just said the world would never be the same.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
How can I answer if you don't provide an argument? So again I'll ask you what is your argument to replace: "Kazuya can look faster than ryu moves" claim.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Better ki manipulation means he can utilize ki more effective than ayane. ayane just blew up a building after straining. hayabusa can manipulate the atmosphere around him, produce fire, amp up his bio electricity, and levitate objects and use them to fly. yes his ninpo is more poweful because he can do more with it than ayane.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

You forgot 2nd zen,metal max, oh and why do you think superboy prime says ryu will tip the scale. And WTF does shin remy arguing sf more have to do with this argument, he agree's with me. but in the end numbers don't matter it's a strong argument which you don't have.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
...Without him DOA won't stand a chance though. The Ninjas might be able to tango for a while; but the might of Kazuya, Heihachi and Jin alone will just be too much.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

And again jinpaichi's stun move is not a long distance attack, you can claim it all you want it's not. I never said Icestrom or firewheels make him invincible, I said no fight can physically touch him and in a game like tekken were people barely have projectiles that's a problem

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Hayabusa has a faster recovery than anyone in tekken if his gaurd is broken he can just roll to evade anyone who's played ninja gaiden would know that. and since when can raven flicker through people?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

So your arguing that there is no regular kazuya and it was devil despite the fact I was trying to tell you that 😆

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

<Sigh>, I said generally there exsist no set time to focus, you can argue instant all you want if you don't know the speed you can't prove hayabusa can't dodge it, You don't even have a new argument as to why hayabusa can't dodge it. "the tk hit heiachi" is all you have, big deal heiachi's speed is definetly not comparable to ryu. so your only example is heiachi (Who has never demonstrated speed anywhere near hayabusa's) was hit by a tk and was knocked out and somehow ryu can't dodge it 😆 maybe if it hit raven or yoshi I would be worried but heiachi..OK sam-z

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Point #1: Roger does not have a similar upercut for starters... try the f, n, d, df + RP to see the actual move i'm talking about in game with any Mishima including Devil Jin, Then tell me why Normal Jin does not posess this technique outside of Devil Within after Tekken 3.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Point #2: No, because for some strange reason he's wearing Devil Jins clothes as Normal Jin...But you brought it back up so now the onus of proof lies with you to explain why, which you didn't do back then and still not doing now.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Point #3: Ogre was dead at the time he vanished, this was stated in Heihachi's Tekken 4 intro, Jun's death has been confirmed since tekken 3 when Jin went to Heihachi, And it had been stated that Ogre had killed Jun, Thats one of the things Namco won't retroactively change, Same with Ogre.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You used that art of ice storm in the scenario where Ryu teleports far away, so yes. I can't call art of ice storm itself a new scenario. Just a part of your old one and as I already said before your old one is ridiculous.

I don't really care if you don't wanna call it a scenerio, you responded to it and I told you it's a seperate scenerio. and I aslo gave you an "Art of the fire wheeels one.

Originally posted by Sam Z

😆 Man you are killing me. Any sportsman can run 200 feet within a minute with ease. So unless Devil gene make Jin a handycap - yes in seconds.

Why are you comparing running speed with flight, how fast can devil jin fky?

Originally posted by Sam Z

This attack works at a distance and also works while you in the air, I recently checked on purpose for this thread. Plus his distance attacks.

Unless it beats teleportation and flight it won't be a threat.

Originally posted by Sam Z

It is a threat. And you calling him slow wont change that fact. When you was telling about Ryu's speed you said he leaves images, well Jinpachi also leaves images so he is damn fast, he can paralize Ryu at a distance and can blast him with multiple fireballs within second. All this combined with speed makes it not a big deal for him to hit Ryu. And that's only Jinpachi, but according to you Ryu can beat all of them with ease 🙄 Ok Blue Nocturne, ok....

Jinpaichi just leaves an image and he's faster than ryu 😆 ryu can run on water, on walls, and on ceilings with his speed. If you claim he's just as fast show me jinpaichi doing speed feats like that. those fireballs a slow as HELL hayabusa will easily dodge them, and again his stun move doesn't work in the air or at certain range.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Give me proofs that he can. And for God's sake this time don't bring that link you gave last time.

Too bad, If you don't wanna navigate it that's your problem. that site has proof.

Originally posted by Sam Z

It is not Heihachi's speed that really matters, it is speed of this attack matters and it is very fast. So you yet have to prove that Ryu can dodge it.

It's very fast because heiachi could not dodge it, OKAY. agin heiachi was standing stiill and does not have speed comparable with ryu so how does that prove it's fast? you claim everything is fast, jinpaichi's fireballs, jins flight, and now this.

Originally posted by Sam Z

For fun? You think he destroyed it for fun? 🤨
And yes - Jin isn't a "good guy". And he does remembers when he turns devil.

Show me where it say's he remembers.

Originally posted by Sam Z

They wont be cought and it still depends on if you still go by your "scenario" of teleporting far away. If not then Ryu would first be blasted from the distance by Kazuya and then more blasted by other people with distance attack and then it leaves him open to other fighters. Simple and plain.

Nice try sam-z, art of the Ice strom was a coounter for when you said ten tekken fighters would jump ryu. so it is a different argument, now explain how he's gonna get a clear shot.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Yeah, he says he'll destroy all existance and then we see world will never be the same. That means he is going to become a green peace member lol.

It's a vague quote which could be interperted as anything, agin where does it show the world being destroyed?

Originally posted by Sam Z

Ok lol. Then Xciao Yu uses time machine to travel back in time to kill Ryu as a little kid. Let's get pass this ok?

Right, she'll get past all those hayabusa ninja's and ryu's father that have the Dark dragon blade, Dragon blade and the dragons eye. nice try.

Originally posted by Sam Z
My argument all along was simply Kazuya's attack and it never changed, changed only way of me telling you this because I made a mistake. Ryu fast and can teleport but there is no point to think that even with such abilities this attack won't work because it really takes him minimum efforts to use it as we saw in the video.

If it never changed you should have said that in the first place, I asked you several times. and again just saying the attack is to fast for ryu to dodge doesn't make sense,when I told you his speed feats and gave you a link with "Fast" attacks from ninja gaiden. Claiming an attack is fast is a vague claim considering he's doodge attacks that are "Fast". also heiachi getting hitwhile standing still doesn't merit it's speed.

Originally posted by Sam Z

I'm not misinformed, you misunderstood me. That's what i was telling you. They ARE gonna use distance attack to hit him through the shields. So i don't see how is he gonna hold his own against Kazuya's attack, Jin's laser, Ogre's firebreath and Jinpachi's blasts or paralization that does work from a distance and while opponent in the air and all together.❌

So if projectile attacks are the nly offense you have, then you are at a disadvantage since hayabusa has dodge several projectiles, hell the sheer numbers of the tekken cast give him an advantage because he can always use them as sheilds with art of the icestorm.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Man, even in one of my first scenarioes I told you that they ain't gonna jump him all at the same time, i said he'll first gonna be hit from the distance and when he's hurt then they can attack him. So most likely they'd hit him before he sucks in ground fighters who are pretty fast as well. And even if he did that still wont stop majority blasts from hitting him unless he'll be teleporting with all those fighters he cought and that would even look funny.

.....Sam-z You said ten tekken fighters jump him at the same time, I can easily quote you on that. but even if they don't jump him he can doge all their long range attacks and use art of the firewhhels for their close range and fly on a rock to shoot distance attacks while dodging.

Originally posted by Sam Z

I said they'd jump him after he is being hit by projectiles so he wont be able to catch them. And what's that about Jinpachi? I didn't get it 😕

No, you said jinpaichi can use his stun move while his allies are caught in art of the ice strom. Again how?

Originally posted by Sam Z
Never provided argument? I gave you feats you asked for, so yes. It leaves only Paul 1 on 1. And it has somethingf to do with my "detective skills" that i actually don't need to simply quote your own posts.

And hworang what feats did you give for him, and that does not leave us at one.

1. Devil jin can fly 200 feet in a minute
2.kazuya's tk can home in on ryu
3. jinpaichi can hit an opponent in the air with his stun.
4..hworang can beat a majority of doa fighters 1 on 1.
5.Ogre' can beat art of the ice storm.
6. jins blast has a long range.

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Originally posted by Sam Z

Give me certain link please, so i could watch.

Sam-z the sight showcases all of hayabusa's moves, this is what you get for debating a character you don't know much about. 2nd zen told you also.

Originally posted by Sam Z

But can't destroy bulding like Ayane? Makes a lot of sense.

It's never been shown I told you that so why ask, it doesn't change the fact Ryu>ayane. Can you show me a character in tekken that has a ki blast capable of destroying a skyscrapper?

Originally posted by Sam Z

And where are they now? You just named everyone who ever supported DOA. I can name you many names that supported tekken but you are right, number doesn't matter. Really matters common sense and strong argument and unlike me, you don't have neither. And as for Superboy Prime - he says that without Ryu DOA doesn't stands a chance.

So that means he supports ryu, thanks for proving me right.

Originally posted by Sam Z

So basicly he say Kazuya, Jin and Heihachi alone would beat all of them except Ryu.

Does it really matter now, we've been debating ryu vs tekken only so it doesn't really matter now.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Jinpachi's attack does work at a distance and even while you in the air + his speed makes it for him no problem to attack Ryu. But Blue Nocturne for some reson says that he is slow and says that to paralize it takes him more than second 🙄 And you base your argument on that, way to go. And as for physically touch, they don't have to because there are enough distance attacks to get him.

Sam-z you claim everything is fast, including jinpaichi's fireballs 😆 What so descriptive about the word fast, it foesnt tell us if it's faster than sound or what. ryu can dodge a bullet, run on water, run on wall, and leave after images all with speed alone. He's fought 60-100 opponents that all have "Fast" projectiles and has dodge them. so please explain to me why he can't dodge a couple of people of projectiles?

Originally posted by Sam Z

Since tekken 5. And now that's funny. "After guard is broken he can roll to evade". First of all it depends on the attack and nomatter how good his recovery is many attacks are enough to slow him down enough for others to finish or to blast again, so your point is lame.

Good point their are unblockable projectiles, now tell me how they will hit someone with speed like ryu's?

Originally posted by Sam Z

Quote me please where I asked you to tell me that.
😆 Explaining to me that Kazuya was devil is as useless as if I was telling you that Ryu is ninja. Wow! Big news! 😂

So it's obvious I was talking about devil, thanks for agreeing with me 😆

Originally posted by Sam Z

Ok Blue Nocturne, I gave you argument that you couldn't counter and now you pretend it is me who haven't proved something. I gave you many links, scenarios and many times explained how are they gonna kill him. Not only that, you build your arguments on that Ryu will RUN AWAY from the fight and on that he can beat Jinpachi because you for some reson assume that he is slow, you also assume that he can dodge ONE certain attack i showed you in the video and you never dared to prove that, and you also base yourself on that tekken characters just for some reasons are weak (like in case when you said about Asuka) and you base yourself on nothing. You mentioned "strong argument" before Blue Nocturne. The problem is that you don't have one.

That's a lie because I gave you 3 sperate scenerio's

1. ryu runs away

2. ryu counters the ten tekken fighters you said would jump ryu with art of the icestorm. he uses them as sheilds against distance attacks that the other fighters use against him.

3. Ryu uses art of the firewheels, he can't be touched and projectiles are the only way to attack him. he uses his flying technique and flie around dodging their blast and fire's his own projectiles.

Second I said jinpaichi is slow compared to ryu, if you say he's faster than expalin he's feats, besides after image. since doku (Who is slower than ryu) can do that. and you haven't explained why any of the tekken cast projectiles would hit ryu. other than the fact their fast. which is a vague statement.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Roger Jr. does have exactly the same uppercought and even performed this attack simillar way. But this is just an uppercought, it is not a trade mark or anything like that and it DOESN'T mean Roger or Jin uses Mishima fighting style, it is just an attack exists in any martial art. So ALL other attacks Jin uses are absolutly the same as in story mode.

No... it's not the same... and it's not just any other uppercut... since when does traditional Karate use Jumping Uppercuts? Hell man, even Kazuya's and Devil Jin's unblockables are based on the same technique.

Either way, everyone who is reading this knows what i'm getting at, everyone exept you... and that says more about you than it does about my analysis...

Originally posted by Sam Z
You want me to explain why Jin wears same clothes as devil in story mode? Don't you think that if he weared clothes that wears ordinary Jin it wont change anything? When he becomes devil he'd have clothes of ordinary Jin and you would've called that another proof too 🙄 So unless you assume his clothes changes as he transforms into devil - all makes sense. Despite what you say it is the same clothes as during story mode.

It's happened before, case in point when Kazuya transforms into Devil, your proof is still inconsistent here.

Originally posted by Sam Z
In tekken 4 Heihachi's intro it's said that he failed to capture Ogre. That's all. After the tournament he simply dissapeared. His blood was left after the fight with Jin. Jun's body was NOT found, nor burried. And Jin's intro clearly speaks about some Journey and it is obviously not tournament. And storymode also says that Jin wants to get rid of devil gene, and it is one of his reasons in devil within.

Where's the proof that she or Ogre are still alive? and no, "Ogres a god and therefore can't die" isn't cutting it since every boss before and since then other than Heihachi, even the immortal ones like Devil and Jinpachi have died. Ogre's not a divine omnipotent like an actual god is supposed to be, but is infact a creature/monster of great fighting ability and is capable of absorbing souls (This is how Jun died).

Now, your journey theory, yes, he wants to get rid of the Devil gene, this is clearly established in both tekken 4 and 5, with no reference to Devil Within whatsoever. There is no evidence linking DW to the mainstream tekken story, Especially since your socalled proof is the STORYMODE INTRO TEXT

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
If it never changed you should have said that in the first place, I asked you several times. and again just saying the attack is to fast for ryu to dodge doesn't make sense,when I told you his speed feats and gave you a link with "Fast" attacks from ninja gaiden. Claiming an attack is fast is a vague claim considering he's doodge attacks that are "Fast". also heiachi getting hitwhile standing still doesn't merit it's speed.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

So if projectile attacks are the nly offense you have, then you are at a disadvantage since hayabusa has dodge several projectiles, hell the sheer numbers of the tekken cast give him an advantage because he can always use them as sheilds with art of the icestorm.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

.....Sam-z You said ten tekken fighters jump him at the same time, I can easily quote you on that. but even if they don't jump him he can doge all their long range attacks and use art of the firewhhels for their close range and fly on a rock to shoot distance attacks while dodging.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

No, you said jinpaichi can use his stun move while his allies are caught in art of the ice strom. Again how?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
And hworang what feats did you give for him, and that does not leave us at one.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

1. Devil jin can fly 200 feet in a minute

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

2.kazuya's tk can home in on ryu

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

3. jinpaichi can hit an opponent in the air with his stun.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

4..hworang can beat a majority of doa fighters 1 on 1.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

5.Ogre' can beat art of the ice storm.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

6. jins blast has a long range.

So Blue Nocturne, only one. Now list about you again.
1) You didn't proved Ryu is > all tekken
2) You didn't proved Ryu can dodge Kazuya's attack.
3) That his ki is stronger than Ayane's
4) Head in tekken 3 intro (but you already admitted that there isn't so pass)
Since you also use everything I ever said so I'll continue with this
5) That Asuka is "weak"
6) That Jinpachi is slow.
7) That Ryu can dodge his paralization attack
8) That Ryu is that faster than Yoshi (You said he can leave images but then you said it doesn't mean anything, you said he can run on water but Yoshi never had to Run on water, it would be concidered a proof when i see video with Ryu moving faster than Yoshi during tekken gameplay.)

So here you go. I can even continue, but some of these things I didn't asked you to prove but still mentioned them like you did. So lets only leave # 1)2)3)7)8), I wont count even # 4.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

It's never been shown I told you that so why ask, it doesn't change the fact Ryu>ayane. Can you show me a character in tekken that has a ki blast capable of destroying a skyscrapper?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

So that means he supports ryu, thanks for proving me right.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Does it really matter now, we've been debating ryu vs tekken only so it doesn't really matter now.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Good point their are unblockable projectiles, now tell me how they will hit someone with speed like ryu's?

Sam-z you claim everything is fast, including jinpaichi's fireballs 😆 What so descriptive about the word fast, it foesnt tell us if it's faster than sound or what. ryu can dodge a bullet, run on water, run on wall, and leave after images all with speed alone. He's fought 60-100 opponents that all have "Fast" projectiles and has dodge them. so please explain to me why he can't dodge a couple of people of projectiles?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

So it's obvious I was talking about devil, thanks for agreeing with me 😆

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

That's a lie because I gave you 3 sperate scenerio's

1. ryu runs away

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

2. ryu counters the ten tekken fighters you said would jump ryu with art of the icestorm. he uses them as sheilds against distance attacks that the other fighters use against him.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

3. Ryu uses art of the firewheels, he can't be touched and projectiles are the only way to attack him. he uses his flying technique and flie around dodging their blast and fire's his own projectiles.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Second I said jinpaichi is slow compared to ryu, if you say he's faster than expalin he's feats, besides after image. since doku (Who is slower than ryu) can do that. and you haven't explained why any of the tekken cast projectiles would hit ryu. other than the fact their fast. which is a vague statement.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
I don't really care if you don't wanna call it a scenerio, you responded to it and I told you it's a seperate scenerio. and I aslo gave you an "Art of the fire wheeels one.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Why are you comparing running speed with flight, how fast can devil jin fky?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Unless it beats teleportation and flight it won't be a threat.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Jinpaichi just leaves an image and he's faster than ryu 😆 ryu can run on water, on walls, and on ceilings with his speed. If you claim he's just as fast show me jinpaichi doing speed feats like that. those fireballs a slow as HELL hayabusa will easily dodge them, and again his stun move doesn't work in the air or at certain range.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Too bad, If you don't wanna navigate it that's your problem. that site has proof.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

It's very fast because heiachi could not dodge it, OKAY. agin heiachi was standing stiill and does not have speed comparable with ryu so how does that prove it's fast? you claim everything is fast, jinpaichi's fireballs, jins flight, and now this.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Show me where it say's he remembers.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

It's a vague quote which could be interperted as anything, agin where does it show the world being destroyed?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Right, she'll get past all those hayabusa ninja's and ryu's father that have the Dark dragon blade, Dragon blade and the dragons eye. nice try.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne

Nice try sam-z, art of the Ice strom was a coounter for when you said ten tekken fighters would jump ryu. so it is a different argument, now explain how he's gonna get a clear shot.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No... it's not the same... and it's not just any other uppercut... since when does traditional Karate use Jumping Uppercuts? Hell man, even Kazuya's and Devil Jin's unblockables are based on the same technique.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Either way, everyone who is reading this knows what i'm getting at, everyone exept you... and that says more about you than it does about my analysis...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

It's happened before, case in point when Kazuya transforms into Devil, your proof is still inconsistent here.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Where's the proof that she or Ogre are still alive? and no, "Ogres a god and therefore can't die" isn't cutting it since every boss before and since then other than Heihachi, even the immortal ones like Devil and Jinpachi have died. Ogre's not a divine omnipotent like an actual god is supposed to be, but is infact a creature/monster of great fighting ability and is capable of absorbing souls (This is how Jun died).

You didn't get me. I;m not trying to prove that Jun is alive, I'm trying to prove that there was NO body found, nor burried, that's why it is not certain what happened to her. Ogre is not actual God, but not any game character is an actual God because God can't be defeated at all. But Ogre easilly could survive the fight, first of all he just disappeared and second it was just a h2h fight.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Now, your journey theory, yes, he wants to get rid of the Devil gene, this is clearly established in both tekken 4 and 5, with no reference to Devil Within whatsoever. There is no evidence linking DW to the mainstream tekken story, Especially since your socalled proof is the STORYMODE INTRO TEXT

Originally posted by Sam Z
doh Jumping uppercought is just a simple attack and it is not a trade mark, their unblockables have nothing to do with this, Roger also uses jumping uppercought and by your logic he fights in mishima fighting style becasue of one this attack.

No, thats not it at all, considering both Roger and the Jacks use different versions... and by all accounts, he shouldn' have that attack after Tekken 3 since neither of his Arcade or Storymode counterparts have the move. You still have no proof to the contrary

Originally posted by Sam Z
And you interviewed everyone who's reading this? Your point is lame because you think that using ONE attack that looks simillar means fighting in this fighting style. But Jin clearly uses traditional karate, and everyone but you know that.

And you've interviewed everyone as well? nice attempt at humor Samo, but the technique is clearly misplaced, and you still havn't explained why or offered any proof to support your claim, and your credibility went down the toilet the moment you used Wiki as a source.

Originally posted by Sam Z
😂 Inconsistent.
You point me at Jin clothes and say it is the same as in tekken 3 even though it is not and even though it is actually the same as during story mode. And now your new point says that his clothes are supposed to change when he turns into devil, way to go.

I used the costume difference as an example of inconsistencies brought on by your theory, of which you still havn't answered for, mostly the time and cosmetic inconsistencies, not to mention the in-story condradictions, the costume is of course the Tekken 3 variety with boots instead of foot padding. If this is set bitween tekkens 4 and 5, then he's already wearing a different costume, case in point, it's not the correct costume for the time period this was set in. Not, prove my analysis wrong Sam.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You didn't get me. I;m not trying to prove that Jun is alive, I'm trying to prove that there was NO body found, nor burried, that's why it is not certain what happened to her. Ogre is not actual God, but not any game character is an actual God because God can't be defeated at all. But Ogre easilly could survive the fight, first of all he just disappeared and second it was just a h2h fight.

If your not trying to prove that Jun is alive, then why argue that point? As for Ogre surviving, you have to prove it, he looked dead when he vanished and there's been no evidence to suggest that he's still alive (And no, until DW is proven to be canon, it is not)

Originally posted by Sam Z
Why your arcademode video is better? 🙄 They clearly talk of a Journey that is not an iron fist tournament, it is not even mentioned anything about it and he wants to get rid of devil gene and participating in the tournament is not a way to do this.

The tournament is the Only way to find Jinpachi... the source of the Devil gene... Research your materials again before you make such outrageous claims.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, thats not it at all, considering both Roger and the Jacks use different versions... and by all accounts, he shouldn' have that attack after Tekken 3 since neither of his Arcade or Storymode counterparts have the move. You still have no proof to the contrary

And you've interviewed everyone as well? nice attempt at humor Samo, but the technique is clearly misplaced, and you still havn't explained why or offered any proof to support your claim, and your credibility went down the toilet the moment you used Wiki as a source.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

I used the costume difference as an example of inconsistencies brought on by your theory, of which you still havn't answered for, mostly the time and cosmetic inconsistencies, not to mention the in-story condradictions, the costume is of course the Tekken 3 variety with boots instead of foot padding. If this is set bitween tekkens 4 and 5, then he's already wearing a different costume, case in point, it's not the correct costume for the time period this was set in. Not, prove my analysis wrong Sam.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

If your not trying to prove that Jun is alive, then why argue that point? As for Ogre surviving, you have to prove it, he looked dead when he vanished and there's been no evidence to suggest that he's still alive (And no, until DW is proven to be canon, it is not)

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

The tournament is the Only way to find Jinpachi... the source of the Devil gene... Research your materials again before you make such outrageous claims.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Your entire technique point leads to - one simillar punch means using entire fighting style. But ALL other Jin's moves are from traditianal karate and I hope you wont argue that. And he also has one uppercought that is a simple attack that is used almost in every martial art. And it surely doesn't mean he fights in mishima style. I don't have to interview anyone to know that people who know what traditianal karate is would agree that he uses it's technique. Roger when attacks moves forward and makes a jumping uppercough, no differance between his and Kazuya's attack but Roger has shorter hands, and this uppercought doesn't make him a mishima style fighter. So again, [B]in DW Jin fights in traditianal art of karate and it makes sense because he fights in this art during storymode as well.[/B]

He shouldn't be using ANY technique relating to what he learned from the Mishima Ryu, he abandoned the Mishima Ryu fighting style in it's entirety and focused on traditional karate and the Kazama Ryu, Neither of which use a jumping uppercut even remotely like that... and you still havn't offered any proof to the contrary... Come on Samo, you made these claims, you have to provide proof to back them.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You used costume difference because you didn't knew he wears it during tournament as well, and you thought of it as of proof. And now you are just making excuses. Do you know why during DW they gave him clothes of devil and not of ordinary Jin? Because they had to choose one and since during DW he fights not only as Jin but also as devil they chose one because his clothes can't change with his transformation. So again, [B]clothes as during storymode and it makes sense too. [/B]

He only wore it during Tekken 3... Yes, I knew this, but why go back to the costume after Tekken 4? he has no reason to since he abbandoned everything else relating to the Mishima's... your theroy is making less and less sense than it did to begin with...

Originally posted by Sam Z
I'm not arguing that Jun is alive, I'm arguing that she dissapeared and there is no proof of her being dead, so i argue that you can't be 100% be sure that she is dead, same with Jin. He may still have doubts about her being dead because he never saw her dead body, and that leads us back to my old point of why he searches for her after that vision. Ogre looked uncouncious, not dead. Then he just disappeared. You call that solid proof? He may staied alive as well, especially since he is not human. He may not be "real" god but he is still not a human, so he leaving is very possible and his another appearance isn't something strange.

After the video evidence suggested otherwise... geeze you are as stubborn as a zit... Why would Jun still be alive if they brought in Asuka... that should be enough of a hint right there...

Ogre is gone, accept this, his bloody body disintegrated and those lights all went in separate directions, namely the souls of those he had killed... and Michelle's amulet has been lost, so there's no real chance of him ressurecting...

Originally posted by Sam Z
Jinpachi source of devil gene? Where did you get that from? When Heihachi impreasined him under the tample he was an ordinary human. And say anything you like but tournament is not the "journey".

during kazuya's early childhood, Heihachi buried him under Honmaru... Before that, it was already stated that the Curse of the Mishima bloodline waswell and truly underway, Jinpachi had mentioned it to Wang hile Heihachi was a kid...