Originally posted by olympian
He never held A black hole in the palm of his hand. Thats an internet myth. Post the scans for all to see. Especially since he did it with the point of not letting it release outside.
"All you're trying to do is disprove how they would defeat the Marvel line-up."
Anyone can see im disaproving your "logic" that they take this with ease.
- - -
"How would Namor or any of the uni-dimensional guys cope with Superman's speed? They don't have the reflexes to"
Of course. After all they NEVER tagged way faster opponents than themselves, right? Its totally impossible and never happened.
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"Like you've stated before, Namor is a non-factor here so that just leaves Ironman, Wonder Man, and Hercules to dish some out. Ironman would hold off CM for awhile"
Wrong. I stated hes the most vulnerable to the HV. Not that hes innefective.
- - -
"How would Hercules and Wonder Man take down what they couldn't see?"
Teaming together. WMan does have superspeed and so does IM currently. Granted if Superman pulls i - am - invisible trick, IM is on the job.
Be clear that im not saying they will surely take it. Im saying its possible, and not a catewalk, wich seems the stance of some posts. Not when we see what the Avengers have taken in the past as well.
- - -
"I'M losing ground huh? You haven't onced explained to me how in the hell this team would defeat Superman and Captain Marvel. Ironman aside, having three brutes against a couple of the most versatile characters around is a joke. Durability and strength I would even give to Superman vs. Hercules or Wonder Man."
Using examples like DD clones that Batman could take, WW being frozen when we know she continued the fight and a black hole feat that always comes exagerated to what exactly happened, gives that impression yes.
How to explain? They have durability, strength, speed, versability and most important the team work. The only real brute here its Herc and even he has more than just raw strenght.
And the fact they are phsyically around the same level than the DC duo, some less and others the same, makes it already not easy for any to go down. Freezing wont work. Hurricane move wont work, unless every single one forgets what they can do. HV wont work the same in everyone.
This is no: lets speedblitz, punch and thats it. Not when at least three have a good time reaction set and at least two now, have actual superspeed.
- - -
"Yeah, and? Cross overs have never been observed as being cannonical, let alone being used as evidence. Besides, if you want to use cross-overs, in a fight Superman smacked Thor through a wall and knocked him out. Regardless of being non-cannonical, they are also riddled with PIS."
There was no wall.
Second, there is evidence of being cannonical, but its for someone to either accept it or not, i think.
Ive seen so many say it like you and then when it was convinient for them using that "evidence" on another debate. You arent probably one, and will accept then that for you, that figth never happened.
That still leaves guys like Herc taking attacks probably worse than the HV. High end feat for sure, but since we are using Superman at his very best, its not to expect less from the others.
- - -
"Fair enough. I thought you ment someone like Hulk would take the majority of the wins on Superman."
Only in pure slugfests or normal powerset like in DOS. Otherwise Hulk loses, not because hes less physically capable but because hes less versatible.
I just dont think this as the same thing when you have four on his range more or less. Its tought.
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And I'm not ignoring WM, Hercules, and Namor's low showings"
High showings you mean.
- - -
"It's just that they don't have the powerset to compete against somebody like Superman"
And thats where all your logic simply crumbles. The way the characters fight its not exclusive to their powersets. If that was the case, Hulk and Hercules wouldnt be able to have the high end showings they have. Its the -use- they make of the powerset. Its how efficient they make it to be. Are we ignoring now, what they have all accomplished in the comics and only looking at this as trading cards stats? Of course not.
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"Cap Marvel and Superman win 8-9/10. Why don't you tell me who would win next time and how?"
I already gave my opinion.
All of them at theyr best doesnt reach the 8-9 out of 10 range.
"http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/...khole0015ak.jpg"
*Aham*
Where its saying it was fully released?
Can someone explain the -wonder- of holding something thats -not yet- released. I didnt get this one.
Internet myth.
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"That how Olympian works. He has too much pride in Marvel to say that they can loose."
Hearing that from someone who brings entries of characters to have evidence for debates hypocrite
Originally posted by olympianThese four avengers greatest feats still do not stack up the Supes and CMs low showings. 😆
"http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/...khole0015ak.jpg"*Aham*
Where its saying it was fully released?
Can someone explain the -wonder- of holding something thats -not yet- released. I didnt get this one.
Internet myth.
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"That how Olympian works. He has too much pride in Marvel to say that they can loose."
Hearing that from someone who brings entries of characters to have evidence for debates hypocrite
"These four avengers greatest feats still do not stack up the Supes and CMs low showings"
Oh yes. Post crisis Superman has sure punched dimensional gateways and time storms. So has Captain Marvel.
How silly of me.
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"Are you being serious? It's not released yet cause SUPERMAN IS HOLDING IT FROM RELEASING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I didnt knew you couldnt read Snoop. Here let me help.
Superman who btw did the feat says:
"Got it, BEFORE it was fully released"
The question mantains. HOW did he held a black hole that wasent released yet from its magnetic field when he got the hand of it.
Im sure you will answer to this, wont you.
Originally posted by olympian. Well atleast you admitt it.How silly of me
Originally posted by olympianIt's not that I can't read. I just can't understand your poor English skills.I didnt knew you couldnt read Snoop. Here let me help.
Maybe if you understood English better you would understand the comics better.
"It's not that I can't read. I just can't understand your poor English skills.
Maybe if you understood English better you would understand the comics better."
😂
What a lame way of not conceading you just got owned.
The writer probably doesnt know how to write. After all he wrote that the mini black hole wasent out of the field yet when Superman got a hand of it.
That Superman struggled with the pressure in order to stop the BH from being released from the magnetic field its accurate.
That he held a BH in his hand its not, considering it didnt happened.
Was it in good enought English for you now, Snoop?
Originally posted by olympianYou like thinking you own people. That's fine.
"It's not that I can't read. I just can't understand your poor English skills.Maybe if you understood English better you would understand the comics better."
😂
What a lame way of not conceading you just got owned.
The writer probably doesnt know how to write. After all he wrote that the mini black hole wasent out of the field yet when Superman got a hand of it.
That Superman struggled with the pressure in order to stop the BH from being released from the magnetic field its accurate.
That he held a BH in his hand its not, considering it didnt happened.
Was it in good enought English for you now, Snoop?
And yea your English was a little better.
And oh yea Don't try and apply real science into comics. You should know this.
"You like thinking you own people. That's fine.
And yea your English was a little better.
And oh yea Don't try and apply real science into comics. You should know this."
hypocrite
It has nothing to do with application of real science or not. The point of this comic book feat was that either a BH was released and he held it or it wasent and he didnt.
The story showed cleary that he didnt. You dont need to make a save of it. The feat was something else. Not what you claimed.
Originally posted by olympianIn your own intelligent words what exactly happened in that pic?This is not an application of real science or not. Either it was released and he held it or it wasent and he didnt.
The story showed cleary that he didnt. You dont need to make a save of it. The feat was something else. Not what you claimed.
BTW it wasn't my claim in the first place. Somebody else brought it up. 💃
Originally posted by olympian
"All you're trying to do is disprove how they would defeat the Marvel line-up."Anyone can see im disaproving your "logic" that they take this with ease.
- - -
"How would Namor or any of the uni-dimensional guys cope with Superman's speed? They don't have the reflexes to"
Of course. After all they NEVER tagged way faster opponents than themselves, right? Its totally impossible and never happened.
- - -
"Like you've stated before, Namor is a non-factor here so that just leaves Ironman, Wonder Man, and Hercules to dish some out. Ironman would hold off CM for awhile"
Wrong. I stated hes the most vulnerable to the HV. Not that hes innefective.
- - -
"How would Hercules and Wonder Man take down what they couldn't see?"
Teaming together. WMan does have superspeed and so does IM currently. Granted if Superman pulls i - am - invisible trick, IM is on the job.
Be clear that im not saying they will surely take it. Im saying its possible, and not a catewalk, wich seems the stance of some posts. Not when we see what the Avengers have taken in the past as well.
- - -
"I'M losing ground huh? You haven't onced explained to me how in the hell this team would defeat Superman and Captain Marvel. Ironman aside, having three brutes against a couple of the most versatile characters around is a joke. Durability and strength I would even give to Superman vs. Hercules or Wonder Man."
Using examples like DD clones that Batman could take, WW being frozen when we know she continued the fight and a black hole feat that always comes exagerated to what exactly happened, gives that impression yes.
How to explain? They have durability, strength, speed, versability and most important the team work. The only real brute here its Herc and even he has more than just raw strenght.
Thing, would fit more in that category.
And the fact they are phsyically around the same level than the DC duo, some less and others the same, makes it already not easy for any to go down. Freezing wont work. Hurricane move wont work, unless every single one forgets what they can do. HV wont work the same in everyone.
This is no: lets speedblitz, punch and thats it. Not when at least three have a good time reaction set and at least two now, have actual superspeed.
- - -
"Yeah, and? Cross overs have never been observed as being cannonical, let alone being used as evidence. Besides, if you want to use cross-overs, in a fight Superman smacked Thor through a wall and knocked him out. Regardless of being non-cannonical, they are also riddled with PIS."
There was no wall.
Second, there is evidence of being cannonical, but its for someone to either accept it or not, i think.
Ive seen so many say it like you and then when it was convinient for them using that "evidence" on another debate. You arent probably one, and will accept then that for you, that figth never happened.
That still leaves guys like Herc taking attacks probably worse than the HV. High end feat for sure, but since we are using Superman at his very best, its not to expect less from the others.
- - -
"Fair enough. I thought you ment someone like Hulk would take the majority of the wins on Superman."
Only in pure slugfests or normal powerset like in DOS. Otherwise Hulk loses, not because hes less physically capable but because hes less versatible.
I just dont think this as the same thing when you have four on his range more or less. Its tought.
- - -
And I'm not ignoring WM, Hercules, and Namor's low showings"
High showings you mean.
- - -
"It's just that they don't have the powerset to compete against somebody like Superman"
And thats where all your logic simply crumbles. The way the characters figth its not exclusive to their powersets. If that was the case, Hulk and Hercules wouldnt be able to have the high end showings they have. Its the -use- they make of the powerset. Its how efficient they make it to be. Are we ignoring now, what they have all accomplished in the comics and only looking at this as trading cards stats? Of course not.
- - -
"Cap Marvel and Superman win 8-9/10. Why don't you tell me who would win next time and how?"
I already gave my opinion.
All of them at theyr best doesnt reach the 8-9 out of 10 range.
"Of course. After all they NEVER tagged way faster opponents than themselves, right? It's totally impossible and never happened."
Have they demonstrated (Herc, Wonder Man, Namor) the ability to have reflexes fast enough to hit opponents at or faster than light? If they have, I would like to see the scans. The only way I see them tagging Superman who is using his speed advantage to the fullest, is if he let's them tag him. His super speed, his super senses, his superior thinking speed, and his invisibility trick combined with his ability to vibrate his molecules in order to PHASE through objects (is that a better word to use?) would make it nearly impossible for them to hit him without him going hand to hand against them.
"Wrong. I stated he's the most vulnerable to the HV. Not that hes inneffective."
He might as well not even be in this fight. He can fly, yes, he has a degree of super speed, yes, but he's no where near the level of Supes or CM.
"Teaming together. WMan does have superspeed and so does IM currently. Granted if Superman pulls i - am - invisible trick, IM is on the job."
Yeah, and how fast does WM go? Last I checked he can't go near the speed of light so his super speed means nothing here. If IM takes his eye off of CM for one second, it's "SHAZAM" time and he gets fried with CM's magical lightning. You're still thinking that CM would just wait in the stands for IM to detect Superman when he's invisible when that wouldn't be the case at all.
"How to explain? The have durability, strength, versatility and most important team work."
Alright I'll give you that they have strength and durability, but aside from Ironman, their versatility and speed is zilch in comparison to Superman and CM.
"This is no: let's speedblitz, punch and that's it. Not when at least three have a good time reaction set and at least two now, have actual superspeed."
They're reaction time means crap because Superman would be moving around them faster than they could possibly think.
"High showings you mean."
Yes, I did mean high showings. 😮
"And thats where all your logic simply crumbles. The way the characters figth its not exclusive to their powersets. If that was the case, Hulk and Hercules wouldnt be able to have the high end showings they have. Its the -use- they make of the powerset. Its how efficient they make it to be. Are we ignoring now, what they have all accomplished in the comics and only looking at this as trading cards stats? Of course not."
What I ment to say, was that these guys don't have the powerset to take the majority against somebody like Superman. Anyways, yes, granted Hercules and these guys have done a lot with their power set, but it is still very very limited compared to the likes of Superman. Granted, their versatility with their power sets are impressive, but Superman has accomplished things that these guys could only dream about.
"I already gave my opinion.
All of them at theyr best doesnt reach the 8-9 out of 10 range."
Alright, fine... Cap Marvel and Superman win 6-7/10. Make you feel better? 😐
