Exar Kun and DN Luke Vs Rots Sidious and ROts Yoda

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Why on earth would the Sith Lord not be skilled in combat? Just because fighting isn't a man's main method doesn't mean he's incabable, because the same could apply to Yoda who doesn't particilarly like pulling up the saber...same could apply to Dooku.

Facts remain: Sidious is a good fighter, and it's that simple. He saw how the Sith failed in the past and tried the new, better way. He kepts his claws hidden, but they were always there

Sidious doesn't suck in combat. I suppose what Nai is trying to say is that: Sidious's most effective weapon is his mind. He didn't conquer the Jedi by fighting them, but by using them. Sidious's dueling skills can always be put into question - but his intellect can't. And that his fighting skills will always be second.

Sidious's philosophy is indeed based on manipulation, stealth, and deceit.

Kun also tried underhanded tactics, Ulic managed to foul that up. Palp launched into battle mainly to trick Anakin, he knew the Jedi were coming.

A genius could still be a master fighter. Mace was a brilliant master and he favored peaceful solutions far over combat, same with Yoda.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Kun also tried underhanded tactics, Ulic managed to foul that up. Palp launched into battle mainly to trick Anakin, he knew the Jedi were coming.

A genius could still be a master fighter. Mace was a brilliant master and he favored peaceful solutions far over combat, same with Yoda.

Okay, you're mis-understanding. Sidious was an incredible fighter. I'm not denying that. But I'm saying his dueling ability and even his Force powers play second fiddle to his intellect.

Originally posted by Escape81
Okay, you're mis-understanding. Sidious was an incredible fighter. I'm not denying that. But I'm saying his dueling ability and even his Force powers play second fiddle to his intellect.

I getcha, Escape. Yes, fully agreed

Originally posted by Escape81
You read it in the novelization.

The point is, the Jedi were prepared to face Sidious. They knew his identity, they outnumbered him, they knew he might attack, and he ignited his weapon and attacked several seconds later.

Not being able to predict his exact move isn't a show of being caught off guard. If that is the case, then 'all' duels have parts where one of the combatants is caught off guard. That means:

- Anakin caught Count Dooku off guard when he decapitated him.
- Obi-Wan caught Grievous off guard when he disarmed him.
- Yoda caught the stormtroopers off guard when he fought them.
- Obi-Wan caught Anakin off guard when he de-limbed him.

The point is - they knew that Sidious was going to attack them. The reason that Agen, Tinn, and Fisto were beaten is a simple one. Sidious was the better fighter.

Well, there must be a reason for the force scream. I doubt Sidious snarled just to show that he is badass.

- Dooku had no hands and was a defensless old man. Anakin had two lightsabers at his throat. Dooku predicting his next move would have made no difference.
-Yes, but you did of course see Obi Wan back up and plan his next move before he charged in and attacked. Despite the fact that Grevious ignited and attacked far slower than Palpatine. Palps pulled his saber and launched himself across the room.
-The stormtroopers dont use the force hence they cannot predict a jedi's/sith's next move. You cant apply that here.
-Not really..Obi Wan even told Anakin not to jump because he had the high ground. Its common sense Obi knew anakin was going to try something ridiculous.

Actually they were all close together in one closed space. No room too defend. And if you watched the movie which I suppose you have. You can see both Jedi delay. Actually come to think of it they dident even attack him. Only Kit and Mace did.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Well, there must be a reason for the force scream. I doubt Sidious snarled just to show that he is badass.
\

The scream was just a filming tactic, to further dramaticize the first unleashing we see of Sidious' power.

I was talking about melee combat skills. The point is to counter this argument you have to assume that Yoda is as powerful or more powerful than Vodo in terms of melee combat.

There is not much of a seperation between melee combat and force power really, they are strongly tied together. But that is beside the point...there is nothing to suggest Vodo has more power and/or is more skilled in melee combat. Yoda is widely recognized in many sources as a peak of jedi power and wisdom. Where is it ever stated that Vodo is anything special? Im not even certain he is the strongest of his *own* time period, as Odan-Urr was older and hyped to be a 'legendary' jedi.

Lmao. Lucas said it was a stalemate but considering the fact that Yoda always had the weaker position and still managed to overcome Sidious (in both lightsaber and force fights) it's pretty clear that he is superior to Sidious on equal ground.

Yes if you take the fight on a literal level, then it is a stalemate because both opponents survived. But Sidious won as far as objectives achieved were concerned. Who really wins: The guy who runs away to the swamps, and even admits that he has 'failed' or the guy who becomes supreme emperor of the galaxy?

And no, that whole crap about Yoda having a 'weaker position' is just bs that people thought up to justify Yoda losing because they couldnt accept that Sidious is simply more powerful. The fight *was* on equal ground, because both opponents were fully capable of using the enviroment to their advantage. The fact that Yoda was hopping around, constantly on the defensive, isnt an excuse for Yoda not winning sorry. Sidious was simply more powerful, and used that power to assert his control during the fight.

Let me think. Kun was a lightsaber prodigy and this is clearly not true for Sidious. He had his ass handed to Mace in a lightsaber duel, Yoda possibly disarmed him and Luke who didn't have that much saber combat training / experience by DE was able to outduel him.

So you really want to tell me that somebody who got his ass handed to a Luke by DE who nearly hadn't any training with that weapon at this point (except his combat action) would be able to outduel the guy who did destroy one of the best - if not the best - Jedi combatant of his era ?

Twisted logic, how do you know those people who managed to outduel Sidious wouldnt outduel Kun as well?

Oh DN Luke is just powerful enough to withstand a force attack powered by the combined force potential of the entire Killik hive which contained 375 worlds at this point. And remember that we are talking about ROTS Sidious here - not about DE Sidious. What exactly would ROTS Sidious do against DN Luke ? Try to force lightning him ? Try to throw pods at him ? He has no chance and his equal Yoda doesn't have either.

Yeah I suppose your right here, Luke has gotten so out of proportion that it is no use arguing against him anymore.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
The scream was just a filming tactic, to further dramaticize the first unleashing we see of Sidious' power.

That would be called an out-of-universe explanation. What is the in-universe explanation?

Since when has ROTS Sidious been able to defeat Exar Kun?

Sinec when has ROTS Yoda been able to hold off Kun?

Lightsnake you get bolder with every statement, and your fanboyism is becoming more and more evident, whilst most of us agree DE Sidious is the perfect match for Exar Kun, your pulling statements out of your ass.

Show that ROTS Sidious has enough force abilities to defeat Kun

Show that ROTS Yoda is strong enough to even compete with Kun.

You say Kun is the most overrated character, yet you fail to see just how much you overrate Luke, Sidious and Yoda.

This match isn't even a contest, Luke curbstomps them both without help, or Kun does it in 10 seconds.

Originally posted by Deception
Since when has ROTS Sidious been able to defeat Exar Kun?

Sinec when has ROTS Yoda been able to hold off Kun?

Lightsnake you get bolder with every statement, and your fanboyism is becoming more and more evident, whilst most of us agree DE Sidious is the perfect match for Exar Kun, your pulling statements out of your ass.

Show that ROTS Sidious has enough force abilities to defeat Kun

Show that ROTS Yoda is strong enough to even compete with Kun.

You say Kun is the most overrated character, yet you fail to see just how much you overrate Luke, Sidious and Yoda.

This match isn't even a contest, Luke curbstomps them both without help, or Kun does it in 10 seconds.

Since Yoda's the most powerful Jedi who ever lived

Unfortunately for you, Deception, I've been arguing on what the official material says, leaving you without an argument. You've ignored the argument completely, buddy boy, and you're just riding on Nai, who's a far superior debator. Learn to actually READ what the other guy writes. Kun'd be dead on his own, Let me simplify it for you: SW= fantasy, in fantasy the strongest good>The strongest evil, and Yoda is unquestionably the strongest Jedi master who ever lived up until the time Luke comes into his own. How'll Kun beat him, I'm curious? Especially Sidious who's already come into his own power and is able to compete with Yoda, who realizes he can't win the battle

Even as of DE, Sidious is leagues below the great powerful sith lords.

Except you've got nothing but your own opinions

And you don't. Until you have concrete facts, you also have nothing but your opinions.

everybody is under the impression that luke's a god why debate

Luke virtually is a god. The only people that I can think of in the EU who could beat him would be Revan and some others who don't really count as they are basically unknown in terms of the EU. Sion and Bane come close.

Originally posted by Count Kent
Luke virtually is a god. The only people that I can think of in the EU who could beat him would be Revan and some others who don't really count as they are basically unknown in terms of the EU. Sion and Bane come close.

Ragnos? lol he is not even in the top twenty imo. Plus he is an unknown in terms of the EU, so he doesn't really count.

Originally posted by Count Kent
Ragnos? lol he is not even in the top twenty imo. Plus he is an unknown in terms of the EU, so he doesn't really count.

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
RETARDED NOOB STFU DAMN NOOB