Marka Ragnos+Shimmra+Hanharr vs NJO Luke Skywalker+Emperor Palpatine+Exar Kun

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
I assume you watched AOTC. Yoda was winded and exhasted. But that did not affect how he fought. Same with Luke.

I don't see where Yoda is so tired that everyone says he is. I just looked at AOTC, he does not sound very tired, he sounds like someone who talks with someone else while running a distance.. And breathing hard does not equal tired, and we did not see Yoda fight anymore, so you cannot say it didn't effect his performance, even if he was tired... Luke had been fighting off mabey thousands of Vong, and swinging your saber that much makes you tired, moving your arms over a thousand times makes you tired in your arms. This specifically effected Luke's performance because he came in a battle where his arms were needed with the Vong overlord.

Lol..arms tired?? When I get back home I'm gonna post more..

Of course, if you swing around alot you get tired in your arms, especially if you fight over a thousand lightsaber resistant (except at a few places) people at the same time, and have to kill all of them pretty quickly, your gonna have to swing as hell.
Let's take one of Muhammad Ali's boxing matches. He let his opponent strike him many many times until he at last fought back and knocked him out in 3 punches. Why? Cause the other was tired as hell after doing so...

Ok, lightsabers are wieghtless. Its like swinging a rather large feather around. I could do that for hours, not to mention a jedi who could strengthen himself through the force. Who said Luke fought the whole army at the same time.

Ah, there is a difference bewteen throwing tons of punches and missing your target and actaully landing them. Luke landed his hits.
Muhammed wasnt absorbing the hits, his strategy was to parry and dodge.

It's going to put serious exertion on your arms

So did he, he landed almost every hit...

And Luke had to cut through Vong armour, it's not just striking anywhere, that would be pretty intense. Also, moving your lightsaber so fast it looks like 20 would be pretty tiering.
And it's not just to move your hands fast, he actually has to concentrate and use real saber moves, and remember, Dooku and Kenobi got tired after about 1 minute of fighting, and when Dooku got tired he lost against Anakin. And yes, lightsabers are weightless, but actually moving your arms, dodging enemy attacks, running around trying to kill everything, blocking, and also moving your hands so fast that they are barley visible should be very, very tiering...

Lol actually, I don't remember why I'm debating this, it was the Yoda thing wasen't it? Is this off-topic?

Originally posted by kamikz
So did he, he landed almost every hit...

And Luke had to cut through Vong armour, it's not just striking anywhere, that would be pretty intense. Also, moving your lightsaber so fast it looks like 20 would be pretty tiering.
And it's not just to move your hands fast, he actually has to concentrate and use real saber moves, and remember, Dooku and Kenobi got tired after about 1 minute of fighting, and when Dooku got tired he lost against Anakin. And yes, lightsabers are weightless, but actually moving your arms, dodging enemy attacks, running around trying to kill everything, blocking, and also moving your hands so fast that they are barley visible should be very, very tiering...

Lol actually, I don't remember why I'm debating this, it was the Yoda thing wasen't it? Is this off-topic?

Luke, found weak spots, actually he hit the weak spots of the Vong. he dident drill the lightsaber into the armour until it penetrated, so that lessens the effort to kill the vong. What? Dooku lost because he was tired? Link..proof please. Luke was powered by the force, he wasnt doing all of this with extreme physical effort. Yoda gets pretty fatigued after flipping around for about 2 minutes or so, but that doesnt effect how he fights.

Dooku uses the force when he fights (powers his old body), still he got tired. (In novelization). Dooku got outmanuvered, much because it got to much and he started to get tired.

And because Luke knows weak spots means he is going to hit them every single time, when he throws around 20 hits in a second?

I don't see how it's possible that Yoda in less than 2 minutes Yoda gets tired (while using the force in his body more than Luke), while Luke when facing thousands of awesome combatents isen't going to be a bit tired at all?

He uses the force to enchance his physical strength. Even so Luke is not 90 years old. Dooku was an old ass man. Luke at best is maybe half if not less that age.

If he kills the vong in one spot, figures out its where they are weak after testing it on a few subjects you better damn believe he's going to continue doing it. If he hits 20 hits a second he should kill the vong warriors in about 10 seconds. Anyway..the warrior vong are weak according to jedi standards, the only challenging vong are the slayers. Luke did not fight a whole army of slayers.

Yoda is old, centuries older than Luke. He uses more force to compensate for his poor physical strength. Luke however is fresh and still young. So he uses less of the force to power his body.

Luke is over 50 years old, and I said he knew the weak points, but when hitting at such speed he is bound to miss sometime, especially when he has to dodge other attacks and stuff. And how much does age really matter? Doing something like this demands alot of physical strenght, you can't blame it all on the force saying "it will regain his strenght in one second", then age would not matter...

And Luke fought Slayers right after that, 4 could take out the second best jedi. And you know what? Kyp got tired as hell after fighting a SMALLER army than Luke, and he could not even take one slayer out of 4, he is younger than Luke, you said yourself that it mattered... No matter if the enemy you're fighting is not the strongest possible, fighting thousands is not an easy task, especially if they have lightsaber resistant armour...

Wait, are you actually saying he is going to defeat thousands of Vong in 10 seconds? 10 x 20 is 200, not 2000..

Dooku is older, but he also has a style that is made to keep his stamina better than other styles, and he is infusing his body with at least as much force as Luke... And Dooku is little over 80...

I said defeat one vong, if he is attacking at 20 hits per second. Try reading correctly.

The only challenge were the slayers, I'm not going to argue against that, but regaulr vong warriors are bantha fodder at the level of Luke Skywalker. Kyp might be younger than Luke, but Luke is >>>>than Kyp. In both the force and Dueling. Again lightsaber resistant armour wont help the weak spots of the vong. You assume he is infusing his body with at least as much force as luke. They have complete different saber styles.

Point is If Luke has the ability to spin his lightsaber faster than the eye can see and can hit someone 20 times before they reazlize it, and could create his own EL, which requires massive amounts of energy, then a see no reason he should have been tired after fighting the vong. Beating the army of vong is one of his less impressive feat compared to what he is shown he's capable of doing.

Because hitting 20 times in a second for god knows how long is going to be tough, very tough, not to talk about tiering for your arms. And again, how come he would always get a perfect hit at the weak spot, and you said he would kill one before it realized it, yes, that's true. But he is also going to waste about 10 hits on their armour, if he does that on every Vong it is going to be a lot of resistance. It's not like he can strike anywhere.

And yes, Luke's skill is above Kyp's, but what says his stamina is so much better? After all, he is fighting the bigger army, and faster, + 7 slayers, and he is older. Mabey he is not getting very, very tired, but it is going to be frustrating for his body, which will make him perform worse against Shimrra...

You should have clearified it a little more, you said, "if he hits 20 hits a second he should kill the vong warriors in about 10 seconds". You could have said "a" Vong warrior instead of "the" Vong warriorS.

I have to go to bed now, I will probably show up sometime tomorrow, hopefully... Bye.

I still don't think Shimmra could take DE Palpatine. ROTS Palpatine? Yup. But not DE.

That's just me.

Originally posted by kamikz
Because hitting 20 times in a second for god knows how long is going to be tough, very tough, not to talk about tiering for your arms. And again, how come he would always get a perfect hit at the weak spot, and you said he would kill one before it realized it, yes, that's true. But he is also going to waste about 10 hits on their armour, if he does that on every Vong it is going to be a lot of resistance. It's not like he can strike anywhere.

And yes, Luke's skill is above Kyp's, but what says his stamina is so much better? After all, he is fighting the bigger army, and faster, + 7 slayers, and he is older. Mabey he is not getting very, very tired, but it is going to be frustrating for his body, which will make him perform worse against Shimrra...

You should have clearified it a little more, you said, "if he hits 20 hits a second he should kill the vong warriors in about 10 seconds". You could have said "a" Vong warrior instead of "the" Vong warriorS.

I have to go to bed now, I will probably show up sometime tomorrow, hopefully... Bye.

He has a chance to kill the warrior in his first 20 hits. There is a good chance he could kill it. As I said before the vong warriors are not as strong as you make them out to be. Slayers I agree are very difficult they are the strongest of the warrior caste and have far better weaponry then regular vong. I dont think there will be any resistance, the armour does not deflect, it absorbs the damage, and then regenerates.

Ah, well we see mace punching faster than the eye can see. Mace punched Vastor 6 times in random areas before he could blink. Mace dismantled thousands of droids with his bare fists. Opposed to a lightsaber which can just cut through things easily. Punching requires great physical strength, especially when punching through durasteel. Is mace more powerful than DN luke? nop, dont think so. Was mace tired after fighting a whole army of battle droids? no...the clone wars cartoon shows it clearly.

Sorry, Dident mean to snap at you like that.

Originally posted by Escape81
I still don't think Shimmra could take DE Palpatine. ROTS Palpatine? Yup. But not DE.

That's just me.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think DN luke would beat Shimrra, I think Kun would too, but DE palps is not as powerful as those two, and Luke had some difficulty with Shimrra. Possibly tired or not, the overlord still proved to be a challenge. DE palps got owned by Luke the second time.

That Palpatine's not as powerful at Kun? Especially by DE?

Nop, I think Kun is better than Palpatine. If Luke is on par with Kun then DE palps is worse.

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
are too

Don't Get Banned Young One

Luke's not on par with Kun, Luke's leaps and bounds above Kun

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think DN luke would beat Shimrra, I think Kun would too, but DE palps is not as powerful as those two, and Luke had some difficulty with Shimrra. Possibly tired or not, the overlord still proved to be a challenge. DE palps got owned by Luke the second time.

Define 'owned'. Does 'owned' imply an easy fight?

Once more, the first time Luke and Palpatine fought in DE, Palpatine crushed him. I strongly believe that Leia had something to do with that fight, unless Luke's abilities jumped levels in a year. Touche?

Secondly, Palpatine is on par with both Kun and Luke in terms of the Force.