The Bible vs The Book of Mormon

Started by Regret10 pages

Biblical historical accuracy


In the final analysis the most certain identifications [of biblical place names] are still those dependent upon preservation of the ancient name, albeit with careful examination of written sources and archaeological data. Out of the approximately 475 place names mentioned in the Bible only about 262 have been identified with any degree of certainty, i.e., 55 per cent. Of these 190 are based upon preservation of the name, viz. 40 per cent of the over-all total. . . . Only 72 places (15 per cent of the over-all total) have been identified in situations where the ancient name is not to be found somewhere in the vicinity, of which only about half carry a degree of certainty, the remainder being more or less conjectural.

William J. Hamblin (1993), “Basic Methodological Problems with the Anti-Mormon Approach to the Geography and Archaeology of the Book of Mormon,” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies v2:1 (Provo: FARMS).



...while archaeology has been able to document in general the pastoral nomadic lifestyle depicted in Genesis throughout the second millennium B.C. (and other periods), it has not brought to light any direct evidence to substantiate the story that Abraham lived, that he migrated from Mesopotamia to Canaan, or that there was a Joseph who found his way to Egypt and rose top power there. ...The tradition is made up of legends that still may be regarded as containing moral truths, but until now they have been of uncertain historical provenance. ...Absolutely no trace of Moses, or indeed of an Israelite presence in Egypt, has ever turned up. Of the exodus and wander in the wilderness-- events so crucial in the Biblical recitation of the “mighty acts of God"-- we have no evidence whatsoever; nor are we likely to have any, since slaves, serfs, and nomads leave few traces in the archaeological record. (Dever, 1990, 24.)

William G. Dever (1990), Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research (Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990).

And on the subject of American Indians being of Jewish decent.

“We must be careful in the conclusions that we reach. The Book of Mormon teaches the history of three distinct peoples, or two peoples and three different colonies of people, who came from the old world to this continent. It does not tell us that there was no one here before them. It does not tell us that people did not come after. And so if discoveries are made which suggest differences in race origins, it can very easily be accounted for, and reasonably, for we do believe that other people came to this continent.”

Anthony W. Ivins of the First Presidency,
speaking at the April 1929 General Conference
(Ivins, 1929, p. 15)

and in response to:

Originally posted by docb77
Hey guys, I found that book by Bickmore. It's called "Restoring the Ancient Church". Great book, it has tons of references to the earliest known Christians - from just after the time of the apostles. It shows how many of the doctrines that other churches reject now where actually around back then.

I did some research on this text. While there are probably accuracies in Bickmore's work, his work has been credibly criticized in a number of areas. I would not appeal to his work in this book as support in a debate with a non-LDS person. While there are undoubtedly accuracies, there are definitely some inaccuracies.

Originally posted by Regret
Interpretational differences will exist in most aspects of our discussions. They are at the core of the splintering that has occurred in Christianity since the time of Christ's death. Very few people agree as to the meaning and interpretation of much of the Bible. You used your interpretation of a Bible verse to attack the Book of Mormon, my response was a logical response to your attack, and was in defense of the Book of Mormon. It fit in the context of the debate. If you are leaving this debate due to this I will assume that you have conceded that there is an interpretational difference and that you were unable to rebut the statement that the Gospel described in the Bible could be different than the one you believe in. If this is the case then it is possible that the LDS (Mormon) Church is not teaching a different Gospel, and thus the verse you quoted does not conflict with the LDS view on the subject. And thus it does not conflict with the Book of Mormon.

I do not intend on leaving the debate. "Interpretational difference" creates an endless discussion with no concession or logical conclusions...literal or not. 🙄

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I do not intend on leaving the debate. "Interpretational difference" creates an endless discussion with no concession or logical conclusions...literal or not. 🙄

Agreed, but the fact that there can be interpretational differences is a integral part of our debate. You say that the Gospel you believe in is not the same as the one I do. You also state that the Bible supports your belief and not mine. If it can be interpreted to mean something different than what you believe it to mean, which interpretational differences means, then it means that my interpretation of the Gospel found in the Bible, which interpretation is not in conflict with the Book of Mormon, is not necessarily false based in only the Biblical text.

My argument was that there is the possibility of different interpretation of the Biblical text. If there is then I am not wrong according to the text, only according to your interpretation, which could possibly be in error.

You were stating that I could not interpret the text as I have.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I do not intend on leaving the debate. "Interpretational difference" creates an endless discussion with no concession or logical conclusions...literal or not. 🙄

This sounds like a common problem.

Originally posted by Regret
Agreed, but the fact that there can be interpretational differences is a integral part of our debate. You say that the Gospel you believe in is not the same as the one I do. You also state that the Bible supports your belief and not mine. If it can be interpreted to mean something different than what you believe it to mean, which interpretational differences means, then it means that my interpretation of the Gospel found in the Bible, which interpretation is not in conflict with the Book of Mormon, is not necessarily false based in only the Biblical text.

My argument was that there is the possibility of different interpretation of the Biblical text. If there is then I am not wrong according to the text, only according to your interpretation, which could possibly be in error.

You were stating that I could not interpret the text as I have.

Would you like me to post all the reasons why the Book of Mormon is a "Different Gospel"?

The Book of Mormon is a "Different Gospel" as the Apostle Paul warned about. This would not be an assult against you Regret by any means, but it will show side by side the Book of Mormon next to the Bible and show Joseph Smith to be who he is.

I think paul was simply warning against any other thing that might attempt to destroy his grip on Christianity.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
[B]The Book of Mormon is a "Different Gospel" as the Apostle Paul warned about. This would not be an assult against you Regret by any means, but it will show side by side the Book of Mormon next to the Bible and show Joseph Smith to be who he is. [/B]

And will they include a number of verses that contradict other Bible references? Or will they be verses that could be interpreted in ways that do not have the same meaning as you place in them? Or will you be taking verses out of context? I doubt you have any verses that won't fit into these categories. If you feel like doing this one at a time, giving me and others that may join in the ability to rebut your stance on each verse individually, then I would do so.

Will this be going on at the same time he is doing intellignet design with me?

Dunno, I'd hope so, I'm not on for long enough periods to respond adequately every day, some of my responses may take time if his attacks are of any merit.

i'm betting for every verse we get where the Bible contradicts the BOM I can find a verse in the Bible that contradicts the Bible

Sounds reasonable.

Originally posted by Regulus A Black
i'm betting for every verse we get where the Bible contradicts the BOM I can find a verse in the Bible that contradicts the Bible

I bet every Bible verse used can be interpretted 2-4 different ways, or is out of context.

Cant you do that with every line of almost anything?...especially in fiction?

yeah, everything can be interpreted in any number of ways, its just usually 2-4 reasonable ways

I think you can always get two.

Originally posted by Alliance
I think paul was simply warning against any other thing that might attempt to destroy his grip on Christianity.

Well, at least that's your opinion. Thank you for sharing Alliance.

Originally posted by Alliance
Will this be going on at the same time he is doing intellignet design with me?

No, I won't duel intelligent design. Simply look at DNA and call me in the morning. 🙄

Originally posted by Regulus A Black
i'm betting for every verse we get where the Bible contradicts the BOM I can find a verse in the Bible that contradicts the Bible

This isn't the Bible VS Book of Mormon ping-pong. This would be to dis-prove that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God according to the Biblical standards as set by Jeremiah. Interested anyone?

Go ahead, keep the arguments to one at a time. That way rebuttals will make more sense, and be concise.