Originally posted by Justbyfaith
[B]The Book of Mormon is a "Different Gospel" as the Apostle Paul warned about. This would not be an assult against you Regret by any means, but it will show side by side the Book of Mormon next to the Bible and show Joseph Smith to be who he is. [/B]
You are 110% correct Justbyfaith!
The Bom can be disproven with the bible as well as the non-existent archaeology the mormons claim to have as well as the dna proof that shows the native americans came across the ladnbridge form alaska. Theres a thing in the old testament abotu false prophets (its in deuteronomy but i forget the exact number ill post it later). It basically says that if a person claimign to eb a prohpet prophesizes false only once, hes not a prophet. Even an angel messenger can be false as well so even if j smith saw moroni, he coudl have been a demon or soemthign pretednignt o be an angel. Anyways there were multiple occasions when j smith prophesized wrong. Ill name a few: God told him that he would ahve success selling the bom in canada that failed. Independence, Missorui was supposed to be new jerusalem and ahve a temple there during j smiths generation. Has not even happened to this day. He predicted that jesus woudl coem with in 56 years at a church sermon, didnt happen. he tried translating the kinderhook plates which was a hoax made by guys tryign to show he wasnt a prophet and they successfully fooled him. He tried translating the book of abraham that was shown later to be nothign more thna hieroglyphics and had a tranlation not even close to what it was supposed to be. Thats only a few, theres hundreds of other thigns that ur avergae mormon doesnt know even thoguh its true.
To any mormons who read this dont tell me what that these facts are nto true until uve done the research and dont tell me that uve had the feelign and u no that j smith was a prophet because logic always prevails before belief
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
The Bom can be disproven with the bible as well as the non-existent archaeology the mormons claim to have as well as the dna proof that shows the native americans came across the ladnbridge form alaska. Theres a thing in the old testament abotu false prophets (its in deuteronomy but i forget the exact number ill post it later). It basically says that if a person claimign to eb a prohpet prophesizes false only once, hes not a prophet. Even an angel messenger can be false as well so even if j smith saw moroni, he coudl have been a demon or soemthign pretednignt o be an angel. Anyways there were multiple occasions when j smith prophesized wrong. Ill name a few: God told him that he would ahve success selling the bom in canada that failed. Independence, Missorui was supposed to be new jerusalem and ahve a temple there during j smiths generation. Has not even happened to this day. He predicted that jesus woudl coem with in 56 years at a church sermon, didnt happen. he tried translating the kinderhook plates which was a hoax made by guys tryign to show he wasnt a prophet and they successfully fooled him. He tried translating the book of abraham that was shown later to be nothign more thna hieroglyphics and had a tranlation not even close to what it was supposed to be. Thats only a few, theres hundreds of other thigns that ur avergae mormon doesnt know even thoguh its true.To any mormons who read this dont tell me what that these facts are nto true until uve done the research and dont tell me that uve had the feelign and u no that j smith was a prophet because logic always prevails before belief
It would be nice if a detractor of the BoM and Joseph Smith would do research before making their claims. There are apologetics available on issues such as these. I am not going to try to respond to all of your statements as it would take longer than I am willing to devote to the task.
I responded to the 56 year prophecy in the Mormons thread, if you would like to check that out. That "prophecy" does not state what you are suggesting.
Now, if you are incapable of researching your own attack thoroughly then you should avoid making the attack. I would suggest that you read up on the subjects you have quoted, and I would suggest reading Mormon defense for each subject and not just the anti-Mormon literature, prior to making claims.
Anti-Mormon literature, by its nature, is suspect. I believe you are a liar, my evidence is that one of your statements was false. Are you a liar then? Or am I merely stating this because I oppose your view? If you are not a liar, then I merely stated it because I oppose your view. Anti-Mormon literature is the same, it may not be a liar, but it is probable that the statements are inaccurate and stated only due to an opposing view.
Actually Regret Gordo isn't wrong if you have studied the Church as thorough as you claim you have, then you would know that what Gordo says is true. But, I honestly don't think you want an answer that contradicts your beliefs. You are just merely trying to cover for a possible false prophecy. I'm more concerned that you believe the Bible to not be trustworthy, yet yourself feel that a Book that has 36,000 documented changes is worthy to be called scripture.
I suggest you get a copy of the 1830 version of the BOM and compare it to todays (you can find a photocopy of it in Joseph Smith Begins His Work Vol. 1). You will actually find out that more than grammatical changes were made and that whole passages and meanings also were changed.
Originally posted by Joseph_Kerr
Actually Regret Gordo isn't wrong if you have studied the Church as thorough as you claim you have, then you would know that what Gordo says is true. But, I honestly don't think you want an answer that contradicts your beliefs. You are just merely trying to cover for a possible false prophecy. I'm more concerned that you believe the Bible to not be trustworthy, yet yourself feel that a Book that has 36,000 documented changes is worthy to be called scripture.I suggest you get a copy of the 1830 version of the BOM and compare it to todays (you can find a photocopy of it in Joseph Smith Begins His Work Vol. 1). You will actually find out that more than grammatical changes were made and that whole passages and meanings also were changed.
Never claimed the BoM was perfect, you need to pay attention to the qualifiers in the claims. And you still need to research out more than just the anti-Mormon views, your claims are only perpetuated by them. Find me a source for your claims that is not an anti-Mormon site with some religious motivation.
Originally posted by Joseph_Kerr
If you are debating doctrinal differnces between the Bible and the BOM, you can not.. they agree doctrinal. Now, the Bible/BOM vs Mormon Doctrine is a vialbe debate since the two contradict. 😉
Actually, if you read the posts from the Mormons on these threads you would discover little agreement. You see, it appears that the book of mormon supercedes the bible according to the Mormons I see here.. So, when this happens... there is no unity of faith.
I have done this myself Regret... when I was 14.... half way done I found a copy with them already done, and bought it (saved a lot of time). And just for the record, I'm not anti Mormon.. I am pro Biblical Christianity. I was the 5th generation born LDS. I am the first generation since 1833 to be Born in Covenant but not baptized. So, I am not ignorant of the things pertaining to the LDS faith.
regret go look it up urself, obviously ur gonna look at ur churhcs information as beign the most credible, but that doesnt necessarily mean it is. I dotn no if uve heard of the tanners but they ahve doen many works on the issues and they dotn spew otu lies because thats pointless and it loses them credibility. Ive seen many mormon responses especailly FARMS based out fo BYU and they have horrible responses to many of these claims, many of which basically say "well you can't totally prove that j smith did this". Look up the facts urself and at the bom and bible. The bibel has more proof archaeologically, the bom lacks any of this and the onyl thign that can hodl the mormon faith together is the idea that j smith told the truth. Read the book biographical sketches because his mother has soem testimony that he even talked about the inhabitants of america pre A.D. before he was supposedly visited by moroni. Plus his family was not well respected in the community and thye were alwasy seeking for money by digging in peoples yards. Im not lyign about this.
Here is 2 contradicting things the mormon church teaches
1. D&C 130:22 "god is flesh and bone" 1 Nephi 11:13 "god is a great spirit"
explain to me how that can be possible
2. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p.370 - speaks of the plurality of gods
Bible - Isaiah 43:10, 44: 6-8, 1 Corinthians 8:4 all state that there is one god,
christianity preaches monotheism not polytheism like lds
i jsut want to let every1 no that i dotn hate mromon ppl, in fatc my best friend is mormon, and i dotn dislike regret im just tryign to throw soem of this out there so that its taken into consideration. I dotn care if ppl dont get out of the church because of the facts, i just want mormons to be more aware because many are not openminded ppl inclduign some of my mormon friends. Its not really their fault, but their whoel life has become part of the church and theres an imbalance there. I'm a catholic and i believe that my church has a lot to offer but there has to be a balance between my churchs teachings and my opinions through knowledge. My expereince with lds ppl has showed me that they cant coem to their own opinions on a lot of thigns because they ahve to follow their lds teachings
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Here is 2 contradicting things the mormon church teaches
1. D&C 130:22 "god is flesh and bone" 1 Nephi 11:13 "god is a great spirit"
explain to me how that can be possible2. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p.370 - speaks of the plurality of gods
Bible - Isaiah 43:10, 44: 6-8, 1 Corinthians 8:4 all state that there is one god,christianity preaches monotheism not polytheism like lds
alright I've just proved your discredibility already you can't even get your facts straight dude, 1 Nephi 11:13 says
13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.
so I've already disproved you as wrong, make sure when quoting from the scripture you get everything right, word for word as it says. because D&C 130:22 says
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
it says has not is
oh and also, no where in the book of mormon does it teach that God is a Great Spirit, he has a Great Spirit is true, but nowhere does it teach that God is a great spirit, in fact the only time it mentions it is when the Nephites are teaching the Lamanites who do not know what God is but believe in a Great Spirit, so the Nephites teach that the Great Spirit that the Lamanites belive in is the same as God
most people believe the meaning of Polytheism is worshipping more then one God, which the LDS church does NOT do
Gen. 3: 22
22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Meaning that man has become as God, which can be interpreted as Man can become a God, but not OUR God that we worship, I for one believe that Adam and many other prophets from the Bible have been ressurrected and become Gods of their own worlds
regulus ur totally right my apoliges for that reference i just checked it and ur right, ive been writign dwon a lot fo the numbers lately so forgive me i gotta look back and see where i found it, but for future reference i will check before i state those quoets
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
im nto sure hwo that says the father is not flesh and boens cuz it defienitly does, i never said anythyign abotu the holy spirit or the son just the fact that god is flesh and bone
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
regulus ur totally right my apoliges for that reference i just checked it and ur right, ive been writign dwon a lot fo the numbers lately so forgive me i gotta look back and see where i found it, but for future reference i will check before i state those quoets"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
im nto sure hwo that says the father is not flesh and boens cuz it defienitly does, i never said anythyign abotu the holy spirit or the son just the fact that god is flesh and bone
are you flesh and bone, or do you have flesh and bone?
oh and here is the reference I think you are talking about, but if you read the entire story instead of just the one verse you see, that they are teaching others about God and how he is the same as the Great Spirit they believe in
Alma 18:28
28:nd Ammon said: this is God and ammon said unto him again: Belevest thou that this Great Spirit, who is God, created all things which are in heaven and in the earth
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
i no the connotation for polytheism is that u worship more than one god but look up the definition and it states that u recognize more than one god not necessarily worship, and it defienitly says in those bible references that there is only oen god that exists
yeah, but look at the timing of the verse, at that time there was only one God, because in order to become as God, you must prove yourself on this earth and then be ressurected, which didn't start until after Christ was ressurected, plus theres the fact that we only have one God, as OUR God, but I believe that many of the Prophets that have now been ressurected have gone on and become Gods over their own worlds, but they are not OUR God, so we have one God, but there are many Gods