Dooku's Skill

Started by Darth Vious28 pages

Originally posted by Escape81
Lucas:

"Dooku was under the impression that he was just supposed to fight Anakin."

Notice how it doesn't say "pretend to fight". He was simply under the impression that he was supposed to fight Anakin, to see if he can beat him. If he did, Palpatine would wait on attempting to bring Anakin to the Dark Side. However, if Dooku lost, Palpatine would see that Anakin was powerful enough to replace him.

It makes absolutely zero sense for Palpatine to engineer the duel so that Dooku would lose, especially when he is only after power. It would make more sense to simply pit them against each other, and make the decision based off of who would win.

Anakin won.

Anakin's potential to become more powerful than Dooku is simply unquestioned. His potential far exceeded Dooku, but - still - at the time of RotS, he was capable of defeating the Count in a lightsaber duel. To top it off, not only was Anakin a more powerful weapon, but was just as naive and just as suseptible to manipulation as Dooku was.

Palpatine is the only person, other than - perhaps - Yoda, who could be able to judge Count Dooku's abilities as well as Anakin's, and decide who is stronger. Palpatine only wants the stronger apprentice. Lucas said in the commentary that if Anakin lost, Palpatine would continue to use Dooku until Anakin was ready. So, Palpatine has absolutely NO reason to lie or to be biased.

Palpatine stated that Anakin was more powerful. Not that he had the potential to be more powerful, but that he is more powerful. And it would also make zero sense to base the argument off of potential, because as shown against Obi-Wan - potential is useless in a fight. Unfulfilled potential is useless.

The script states that Obi-Wan and Dooku got tired as Anakin got stronger as the duel progressed. So, as the duel progressed (even when Dooku taunted him), Anakin's power began to eclipse Dooku's, allowing him to overpower the Count.

Anakin is more powerful than Count Dooku as of RotS.


Re read that part where I explained that Dooku thought he was providing Anakin with a Trial. I re-watched the scene again just now, and Dooku actually gives a "what?!" gasp when Palpatine says "Kill him!" a more confused gasp at Palpatine's repetition of the order, and then gives Anakin a look that is pretty much silently begging not to be killed, and that he doesn't understand what is going on. Sidious lied to Dooku, because if he had actually told Dooku that if Anakin won he would be killed, Dooku would most likely not have gone along with the plan. Yes, Anakin is more powerfull than the Count, both in physical strength (due to their respective ages) and ability to use the Force, due to his midi-chlorian count being the highest seen, as Obi-Wan told Qui-Gon. However, Dooku was a more skilled swordsman. As I said above, even when Anakin totally lost his temper, Dooku was still able to block every blow (although they physically drove him back), and Anakin did not cut his hands off while they were still duelling, but after he had physically grabbed and immobilized Dooku's arms, like the chickenshit wifebeater he is.

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Re read that part where I explained that Dooku thought he was providing Anakin with a Trial. I re-watched the scene again just now, and Dooku actually gives a "what?!" gasp when Palpatine says "Kill him!" a more confused gasp at Palpatine's repetition of the order, and then gives Anakin a look that is pretty much silently begging not to be killed, and that he doesn't understand what is going on. Sidious lied to Dooku, because if he had actually told Dooku that if Anakin won he would be killed, Dooku would most likely not have gone along with the plan. Yes, Anakin is more powerfull than the Count, both in physical strength (due to their respective ages) and ability to use the Force, due to his midi-chlorian count being the highest seen, as Obi-Wan told Qui-Gon. However, Dooku was a more skilled swordsman. As I said above, even when Anakin totally lost his temper, Dooku was still able to block every blow (although they physically drove him back), and Anakin did not cut his hands off while they were still duelling, but after he had physically grabbed and immobilized Dooku's arms, like the chickenshit wifebeater he is.

Hahahaha. Good one. Although I know it is redundant but for those of you who don't get it. . .look at the expresions on both Palpatine and Dooku. Dooku has a "I'm f*cked for sure" look while Palpatine has the "Your f*cked dude" look. . .

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Hahahaha. Good one. Although I know it is redundant but for those of you who don't get it. . .look at the expresions on both Palpatine and Dooku. Dooku has a "I'm f*cked for sure" look while Palpatine has the "Your f*cked dude" look. . .

Exactly, it's all there in the gasps Dooku gives, the look in his eyes, and the infinitesimal shaking of his head (when viewed from the back and up towards Anakin) that he realizes that he was totally duped by Palpatine, and Anakin is going to kill him, which he had not thought was part of the plan.

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Hahahaha. Good one. Although I know it is redundant but for those of you who don't get it. . .look at the expresions on both Palpatine and Dooku. Dooku has a "I'm f*cked for sure" look while Palpatine has the "Your f*cked dude" look. . .

Hahaha. I agree.

"Dooku thought he was providing Anakin with a Trial" LOLOLOL!! Good one!

Originally posted by Escape81
Are you going to argue with me that Dooku is capable of beating the man who was both his master and the man he feared more than any other being in the galaxy?

That makes absolute sense.


Trust me, they will eventually go as far as that. This thread is fanboy galore!

Originally posted by overlord
"Dooku thought he was providing Anakin with a Trial" LOLOLOL!! Good one!

Trust me, they will eventually go as far as that. This thread is fanboy galore!

Your here for what now?

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Exactly, it's all there in the gasps Dooku gives, the look in his eyes, and the infinitesimal shaking of his head (when viewed from the back and up towards Anakin) that he realizes that he was totally duped by Palpatine, and Anakin is going to kill him, which he had not thought was part of the plan.

Or, maybe . . . maybe . . . maybe . . . he was shocked with the fact that Anakin just owned him, and that his master wasn't going to save his ass.

Yes. Perhaps that.

Originally posted by Escape81
Or, maybe . . . maybe . . . maybe . . . he was shocked with the fact that Anakin just owned him, and that his master wasn't going to save his ass.

Yes. Perhaps that.

Then why would Palpatine have given Dooku that devilish grin that says betrayal. . .

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Then why would Palpatine have given Dooku that devilish grin that says betrayal. . .

Re-read that.

It was betrayal when Sidious said that he would interfere if Dooku lost, and he didn't.

But that doesn't negate the fact that he lost. Dooku's "expression" is nothing.

He fought Anakin. He lost. He expected Palpatine to interfere in the case that he lost, but Palpatine didn't and - instead - encouraged Anakin to kill Dooku.

That's betrayal. But that doesn't mean "OH EM GEE he was going EASY on Anikn!"

Originally posted by Escape81
Re-read that.

It was betrayal when Sidious said that he would interfere if Dooku lost, and he didn't.

But that doesn't negate the fact that he lost. Dooku's "expression" is nothing.

He fought Anakin. He lost. He expected Palpatine to interfere in the case that he lost, but Palpatine didn't and - instead - encouraged Anakin to kill Dooku.

That's betrayal. But that doesn't mean "OH EM GEE he was going EASY on Anikn!"

Don't get your panties in a bunch. Dooku's expression has everything to do with the situation. . .

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Your here for what now?
Come again? what the hell..
Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Don't get your panties in a bunch. Dooku's expression has everything to do with the situation. . .
It's called surprise.
Like "huh, what the hell? My master wants me dead?", don't go make another bullshit story based on an expression you percieved wrong.

Yes Dooku was told to fight Anakin. But he was also told not to kill him. That means that Dooku was forced to hold back some so that he did not accidently kill him. Cause if he did accidently kill him Palpatine would be angry and might turn his anger towards Dooku. Something that I am sure Dooku did not want to happen. Not to mention that Palpatine had told him that if Anakin won, he would step in. So Dooku did not think he was in much danger. He did not feel a need to go all out because of that as well. He however did not expect Anakin to be as physicly strong as he was when he was angry. He was physicly wore down. Then remember Anakin had physically grabbed and immobilized Dooku's arms and then proceeded to cut off Dooku's hands very quickly. There is nothing there to prove that Anakin was a better duelest, nor does it prove he was more skilled at using the force. Anakin may have had more potential and raw power then anyone else but he had yet to even come close to mastering the force. He has to realy on cheap tricks to win. You call us Dooku fanboys. But most of us are just looking at the facts. I do not care for Dooku much myself but I can not ignore the facts. It is pretty obvious that you are an Anakin fanboy. Anakin Fanboys can not expect Anakin to not be the best. Which is worse then the Boba Fett Fanboys. The Anakin Fanboys remind me of the old Jar Jar Fanboys. Makes me wonder if you guys just converted over from Jar Jar to Anakin.

Originally posted by Escape81
Or, maybe . . . maybe . . . maybe . . . he was shocked with the fact that Anakin just owned him, and that his master wasn't going to save his ass.

Yes. Perhaps that.


Well yes, he was shocked about that, but, that does not change the fact that he did not think he was getting in a fight to the death, and had been assured by Palpatine that he (Palpatine) would stand in if Anakin won.
[Edit to add]
Don't forget, that Anakin did now 'own' him in a fair blade to blade duel, but resorted to physical means to overpower Dooku. The Count was a man who believed in nobility and Correct Behaviour, and expected others to live by similar standards (which Anakin the wifebeater does not)

Originally posted by overlord
"Dooku thought he was providing Anakin with a Trial" LOLOLOL!! Good one!

How else would you describe it? Lison pointed out quite clearly:

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Yes Dooku was told to fight Anakin. But he was also told not to kill him.

As I said before, when Dooku was fighting Assaj, he was testing her for Palpatine's benefit, not trying to kill her, and thought that he was doing the same thing with Anakin (although we know he was not) He didn't realize that until Palpatine said "Kill him!" Re-watch the scene. You can hear the gasps of surprize and confusion following each of Palpatine's orders, and see his silent plea for mercy to Anakin on his face.

Originally posted by Darth Vious
]
Don't forget, that Anakin did now 'own' him in a fair blade to blade duel, but resorted to physical means to overpower Dooku. The Count was a man who believed in nobility and Correct Behaviour, and expected others to live by similar standards (which Anakin the wifebeater does not)

Hahaha yes. Dooku thinks of himself as better than everyone else and beleives in everything being done with honor, pride and nobility. He fought fairly, however Anakin did not.

Dooku is so honorable he genocides worlds.
Dooku is so honorable he forges alliances with the very intention of breaking them later.
There's no such thing as a fair or honorable fight. Dooku is a hypocrite who believes himself above everyone else

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hahaha yes. Dooku thinks of himself as better than everyone else and beleives in everything being done with honor, pride and nobility. He fought fairly, however Anakin did not.

Precicely. Dooku may have been arrogant and something of a Class Elitist, but, he adhered strictly to 'the rules' associated with his status. As you say, Dooku fought fairly, but Anakin did not. (as Anakin did not fight fairly when he cut off Mace's sword-hand on the down swing)

an impulsive swing does not constitute a fight.

Originally posted by Lightsnake

There's no such thing as a fair or honorable fight.

Yes there is.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku is a hypocrite who believes himself above everyone else

As I said above, Dooku was arrogant and a Class Elitist, but, he stuck to 'the rules' of his status.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
an impulsive swing does not constitute a fight.

Indeed it does not constitute a fight, I was using a figure of speech. Here's another. Anakin was a wifebeating chickenshit who didn't fight fair. Good enough?