Originally posted by Lightsnake
How the hell is Anakin grabbing Dooku more cowardly than Dooku frying Sora Bulq with lightning or burying Tholme under rocks?
Thats irrelevant. I was referring to the movies - and to Anakins duel in particular. Grabbing someones arms in the middle of a duel is a cowardly thing to do. Meaning that Anakin did NOT beat Dooku fairly. End of discussion.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, it's Dooku's fault for letting himself be grabbed, there's no such thing as fair in duels to the death
Actually there is. Dooku had a sort of code of honor that he lived by. he didnt cheat in his fight, he duelled fairly. He was arrogant and thought he was better than everyone. However Anakin did not duel by this 'code'. Meaning Dooku fought fairly and Ankin did not.
Look how old Dooku is. First he had to fight both obi-wan and anakin. That right there had to have wore him down some. Force pushing Obi-Wan and dropping him on the balcony might have wore him down a little. Then he faught Anakin one on one. Even then Dooku blocked every one of Anakin's blows. It took anakin grabbing hold of Dooku's arm and overpowering in physicly, something that just about anyone Anakin's age can do, and then slicing his hands off while preventing Dooku from being able to even move his hands to defend himself. That does not prove that Anakin is better. It just proves he is physicaly stronger. You can only say someone is better with a lightsaber when they win in just a lightsaber on lightsaber fight. No physical touching at all. It is called a lightsaber duel for a reason. There is nothing in that entire fight that proves that Anakin is more skilled in the use of the force either. Powerful he may be. He does not know how to control that power. Had the fight been one on one to begin with Dooku would have won. If Dooku had been ordered to kill Anakin he would have done so early on in the duel when he had the chance. And if Palpatine had not assured Dooku that he would step in. Dooku would have faught harder. No one fights there best when a safety net is in place. Also for those that say Dooku was not fighting by a code of honor. If he had not been fighting my a code of honor he would have used more then just a lightsaber. Even in AOTC he could have killed Obi-Wan and Anakin with ease. But instead he did not. Once they actualy went after him in a lightsaber he did not use force powers again until after the duel was over. After cutting off Anakin's hand he could have simply chopped him in two but instead he sent him flying backwards. The reason. There is no honor in killing an unarmed person. His reason for not using he force in any actualy lightsaber duels. It would give him an unfair advantage over both Obi-Wan and Anakin. The only reason he did it to Obi-Wan in ROTS is cause he could not take on both young men at once. And since his goal was to test Anakin. Obi-Wan was the ideal choice to take out of the fight.
Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Look how old Dooku is. First he had to fight both obi-wan and anakin. That right there had to have wore him down some. Force pushing Obi-Wan and dropping him on the balcony might have wore him down a little. Then he faught Anakin one on one. Even then Dooku blocked every one of Anakin's blows. It took anakin grabbing hold of Dooku's arm and overpowering in physicly, something that just about anyone Anakin's age can do, and then slicing his hands off while preventing Dooku from being able to even move his hands to defend himself. That does not prove that Anakin is better. It just proves he is physicaly stronger. You can only say someone is better with a lightsaber when they win in just a lightsaber on lightsaber fight. No physical touching at all. It is called a lightsaber duel for a reason. There is nothing in that entire fight that proves that Anakin is more skilled in the use of the force either. Powerful he may be. He does not know how to control that power. Had the fight been one on one to begin with Dooku would have won. If Dooku had been ordered to kill Anakin he would have done so early on in the duel when he had the chance. And if Palpatine had not assured Dooku that he would step in. Dooku would have faught harder. No one fights there best when a safety net is in place. Also for those that say Dooku was not fighting by a code of honor. If he had not been fighting my a code of honor he would have used more then just a lightsaber. Even in AOTC he could have killed Obi-Wan and Anakin with ease. But instead he did not. Once they actualy went after him in a lightsaber he did not use force powers again until after the duel was over. After cutting off Anakin's hand he could have simply chopped him in two but instead he sent him flying backwards. The reason. There is no honor in killing an unarmed person. His reason for not using he force in any actualy lightsaber duels. It would give him an unfair advantage over both Obi-Wan and Anakin. The only reason he did it to Obi-Wan in ROTS is cause he could not take on both young men at once. And since his goal was to test Anakin. Obi-Wan was the ideal choice to take out of the fight.
Exactly. Well written. 🙂
Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Look how old Dooku is. First he had to fight both obi-wan and anakin. That right there had to have wore him down some. Force pushing Obi-Wan and dropping him on the balcony might have wore him down a little. Then he faught Anakin one on one. Even then Dooku blocked every one of Anakin's blows. It took anakin grabbing hold of Dooku's arm and overpowering in physicly, something that just about anyone Anakin's age can do, and then slicing his hands off while preventing Dooku from being able to even move his hands to defend himself. That does not prove that Anakin is better. It just proves he is physicaly stronger. You can only say someone is better with a lightsaber when they win in just a lightsaber on lightsaber fight. No physical touching at all. It is called a lightsaber duel for a reason. There is nothing in that entire fight that proves that Anakin is more skilled in the use of the force either. Powerful he may be. He does not know how to control that power. Had the fight been one on one to begin with Dooku would have won. If Dooku had been ordered to kill Anakin he would have done so early on in the duel when he had the chance. And if Palpatine had not assured Dooku that he would step in. Dooku would have faught harder. No one fights there best when a safety net is in place. Also for those that say Dooku was not fighting by a code of honor. If he had not been fighting my a code of honor he would have used more then just a lightsaber. Even in AOTC he could have killed Obi-Wan and Anakin with ease. But instead he did not. Once they actualy went after him in a lightsaber he did not use force powers again until after the duel was over. After cutting off Anakin's hand he could have simply chopped him in two but instead he sent him flying backwards. The reason. There is no honor in killing an unarmed person. His reason for not using he force in any actualy lightsaber duels. It would give him an unfair advantage over both Obi-Wan and Anakin. The only reason he did it to Obi-Wan in ROTS is cause he could not take on both young men at once. And since his goal was to test Anakin. Obi-Wan was the ideal choice to take out of the fight.
Yeah I mean look how tired Palpatine was when he blasted Mace out of the window or threw senate pods at Yoda left and right.
Anakin grabbing Dooku's arms that is called outmanueving because Anakin had to get close enough to do it. And if this was a lightsaber to lightsaber duel then Dooku wouldn't have used the Force on Obi-Wan nor would have Mace kicked Palpatine's lightsaber out of his hands.
Yeah Palpatine who was strapped to a chair via energy cufflinks would magically get up and blast Anakin away.
Dooku has honor? He doesn't try to kill unarmed people? That's why he tore down that pillar on a wounded and unarmed Anakin and Obi-Wan while fighting Master Yoda? I guess running away from battle must be honorable now a days. You keep saying Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin but where if your proof? Show me proof. Give me a link.
Yep, Dooku doesn't like to use the Force in battle. Oh wait what do you call those bright lights coming from Dooku's hand? It couldn't be Force Lighting.
Look at Dooku making a terrible mistake in his fighting. Revealing both of his arms, open to attack. Great swordsman alright.
And the outcome of Dooku being stupid. Anakin is superior because he outmanueved Dooku and overpowered him. Two things that make a swordsmaster.
And so Dooku got:
Anakin and Dooku continue their fight. It is intense! Finally, in one last energized charge, ANAKIN cuts off COUNT DOOKU's hands. The Jedi catches the lightsaber as it drops from the severed Sith Lord's hand. COUNT DOOKU stumbles to the floor as ANAKIN puts the two lightsabers to his neck. PALPATINE is grinning as he watches COUNT DOOKU's defeat.
Count Dooku's defeat, not Anakin passes the test so Palpatine decides to step in and save the Count.
Yeah I mean look how tired Palpatine was when he blasted Mace out of the window or threw senate pods at Yoda left and right.
Whats your point? That has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Anakin grabbing Dooku's arms that is called outmanueving because Anakin had to get close enough to do it.
No. They were fairly close to each other the whole duel. For example when Dooku was taunting Anakin in the saber lock. Dooku allowed them to get close because he didnt expect Anakin to perform a dishonarable move like grabbing the opponents arm. However he underestimated just how cowardly Skywalker was.
And if this was a lightsaber to lightsaber duel then Dooku wouldn't have used the Force on Obi-Wan
He was outnumbered. Him using the force there was to even the odds. And anyway Obi-Wan was not important to Dooku. Anakin was what was important to Dooku.
Nor would have Mace kicked Palpatine's lightsaber out of his hands.
Irrelevant
Yeah Palpatine who was strapped to a chair via energy cufflinks would magically get up and blast Anakin away.
Dooku has honor? He doesn't try to kill unarmed people? That's why he tore down that pillar on a wounded and unarmed Anakin and Obi-Wan while fighting Master Yoda?
He was trying to escape. He knew that Yoda would stop the pillar. So it wasnt a matter of him trying to kill the duo, but him trying to distract Yoda.
I guess running away from battle must be honorable now a days.
Strategic retreat. He knew there was a possiblilty that he would lose and he didnt want to take that risk. Sith are afraid of death.
You keep saying Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin but where if your proof? Show me proof. Give me a link.
Dont have one. I think it is in the ROTS novel. But you can take my word that Dooku was there to turn Anakin to the darkside. He was supposed to be the general for the new army. He wouldnt be a very good general if he was dead now would he.
Yep, Dooku doesn't like to use the Force in battle. Oh wait what do you call those bright lights coming from Dooku's hand? It couldn't be Force Lighting.
Irrelevant. Anyway the movie is higher canon. In the movie he doesnt use force powers pon Anakin.
Look at Dooku making a terrible mistake in his fighting. Revealing both of his arms, open to attack. Great swordsman alright.
Dooku was blocking an attack. How would Anakin be able to strike his arms if his sword was being blocked by the Counts?
And the outcome of Dooku being stupid. Anakin is superior because he outmanueved Dooku and overpowered him. Two things that make a swordsmaster.
Dookus only mistakes were taunting Anakin and underestimating how cowardly he was. If Dook hadnt taunted Anakin he wouldnt have become enraged. The Count physically isnt strong enough to stand up to Anakin. And then Anakin did something that the Count didnt think he would do (because it is cheating an unhonarable) - he grabbed his arms and then cut them. Once again Dooku isnt physically strong enough to get free of the grip. So all the battle shows me is Anakin is physically stronger, whick isnt hard to work out looking at their age differences.
Count Dooku's defeat, not Anakin passes the test so Palpatine decides to step in and save the Count.
Yes the Count was defeated. However he wouldnt have been if A) Anakin had not cheated, B) Sids had stepped in like he was meant to and C)he did not have to fight Obi-Wan as well.
Dooku was blocking an attack. How would Anakin be able to strike his arms if his sword was being blocked by the Counts?
Why don't you watch that part again. Dooku was attacking Anakin and Anakin was blocking his attack.
Whats your point? That has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
The point is Jam-Jul_Lison said using the Force on Obi-Wan in ROTS made him tired. Palpatine showed greatest Force powers and he was even blasted back with a Force push and after his entire conflict with Mace Sidious wasn't tired.
Yes the Count was defeated. However he wouldnt have been if A) Anakin had not cheated, B) Sids had stepped in like he was meant to and C)he did not have to fight Obi-Wan as well.
A) You cannot cheat in a fight. All fair in love and war.
B) Palpatine was strapped to a chair. He wasn't stepping anywhere.
C) Anakin pwned Dooku.
Dookus only mistakes were taunting Anakin and underestimating how cowardly he was. If Dook hadnt taunted Anakin he wouldnt have become enraged. The Count physically isnt strong enough to stand up to Anakin. And then Anakin did something that the Count didnt think he would do (because it is cheating an unhonarable) - he grabbed his arms and then cut them. Once again Dooku isnt physically strong enough to get free of the grip. So all the battle shows me is Anakin is physically stronger, whick isnt hard to work out looking at their age differences.
You keep calling what Anakin did cheating. Show me a rule book on fighting.
No. They were fairly close to each other the whole duel. For example when Dooku was taunting Anakin in the saber lock. Dooku allowed them to get close because he didnt expect Anakin to perform a dishonarable move like grabbing the opponents arm. However he underestimated just how cowardly Skywalker was.
You keep saying it's dishonorable but here is the thing: SITH HAVE NO HONOR, they care only about themselves. And what Anakin did was called smart not cheating. Because to win a fight you need to be able to outmanueve your opponent.
I guess kicking Palpatine makes Mace a cheater. I guess punching Maul makes Qui-Gon a cheater. I guess knocking Qui-Gon in the face makes Maul a cheater.
Dont have one. I think it is in the ROTS novel. But you can take my word that Dooku was there to turn Anakin to the darkside. He was supposed to be the general for the new army. He wouldnt be a very good general if he was dead now would he.
Well like you said: Irrelevant. Anyway the movie is higher canon. In the movie he doesnt use force powers pon Anakin. So I can say Irrelevant. Anyway the movie is higher canon. In the movie you don't see Palpatine telling Dooku to go easy on Anakin.
The fact is Anakin overpowered and outmanueved Count Dooku to win. Dooku went on the offensive at the end and Anakin used that to gain the upper hand.
Anakin > Dooku
You have no proof that Dooku was going easy on Anakin nor any about Dooku turning Anakin to the dark side.