Dooku's Skill

Started by kamikz28 pages
kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Geroge Lucas words is the highest form of canon. He could say that the movies really didn't have any meaning on the Star Wars universe, and suddenly the movies are not canon.
Because people never have heard him say something about the movie doesn't mean he is not the highest canon. People just have their own opinion, but when Lucas talks and says that it is the complete opposite of what the other people think, Lucas is right, they are wrong. People have their own perspective of thinking when watching a movie, and the real deal doesn't always show, but if Lucas say that it is indeed "that" and "that" which happens, then it is that way....

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
Geroge Lucas words is the highest form of canon. He could say that the movies really didn't have any meaning on the Star Wars universe, and suddenly the movies are not canon.
Because people never have heard him say something about the movie doesn't mean he is not the highest canon. People just have their own opinion, but when Lucas talks and says that it is the complete opposite of what the other people think, Lucas is right, they are wrong. People have their own perspective of thinking when watching a movie, and the real deal doesn't always show, but if Lucas say that it is indeed "that" and "that" which happens, then it is that way....

If it is a case of a scene having a hidden meaning, then yes, a comment from Lucas would reveal that hidden meaning, but ultimately, if it doesn't, then if he intended for something to happen in a scene, then he should havedirected the actors to do so and filmed it. The commentary does not say anything about how Anakin beat Dooku (and I haven't read that part of the novelization) the actual movie however, as I showed above, makes it explicitely clear that Anakin had to grab Dooku in order to overpower him, and could not do so through saber skill alone (or he a) would have done so sooner and b) would not have had to grab the Count in the first place.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

So you agree that Lucas word does have a highest meaning? Good....

As I said, I won't take part in this debate cause I am not really sure where I stand, but one thing I want you to consider. Did you see Dooku get a single hit on Anakin when he went rats-ass on him? Did you read the part in the novelization where it says that Dooku went in for the kill? Did you hear that Lucas said that Dooku did not know anything except that he would be fighting Anakin?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
So you agree that Lucas word does have a highest meaning? Good....

Only when revealing hidden meaning, other than that, as I said, it is just an opinion, and if it was what Lucas really wanted in a scene, then he would have filmed it thus.

Originally posted by kamikz
As I said, I won't take part in this debate cause I am not really sure where I stand, but one thing I want you to consider. Did you see Dooku get a single hit on Anakin when he went rats-ass on him?

He didn't. But, he thought he was testing Anakin, so he was not trying to kill him.

Originally posted by kamikz
Did you read the part in the novelization where it says that Dooku went in for the kill?

I haven't read the entire novelization, I literally picked it up in a store, and leafed the pages through. Some parts I saw and remembered, others just flipped past.

Originally posted by kamikz
Did you hear that Lucas said that Dooku did not know anything except that he would be fighting Anakin?

Yes, that's on the commentary of my DVD. Lucas said that Palpatine was testing Anakin, and that was why Dooku was fighting Anakin (that Dooku thought it was part of a test)

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

He said that Dooku just though he would fight Anakin.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
He said that Dooku just though he would fight Anakin.

Yes, but the fact he had mentioned that Palpatine was testing Anakin, means that Dooku would have thought that was the reason for the duel.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

No, GL said, "Dooku does not know of Palpatine's plan, he just knows he is supposed to fight Anakin". Palpatine's plan was to test Anakin, Dooku apparently did not know this. GL doesn't say that he is supposed to fake, not give it all or test him or whatever, he says that Dooku is supposed to FIGHT him. Where does it say that Dooku knew this was a test to Anakin's power?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
No, GL said, "Dooku does not know of Palpatine's plan, he just knows he is supposed to fight Anakin". Palpatine's plan was to test Anakin, Dooku apparently did not know this. GL doesn't say that he is supposed to fake, not give it all or test him or whatever, he says that Dooku is supposed to FIGHT him. Where does it say that Dooku knew this was a test to Anakin's power?

Okay, it does not make direct reference to that, but, given that the entire kidnap of Palpatine was a sith plot, what else would Dooku think they were hoping to achieve other than maybe 'get in a fight' with Anakin and Obi-Wan? (which they could do at any time) The fact he'd already tested Assaj for Palpatine's benefit would most likely have lead him to believe that was also the reason for him having to fight Anakin, perhaps the novelization sheds more light on that. Just because Lucas didn't specifically say that was or wasn't the reason that Dooku had to fight Anakin, that doesn't mean that it wasn't. To be honest, the RotS commentary is disjointed and edited, not a continual discussion, so it might well be that he did record such a comment, but it for timing reasons, it was never included in the commentary, as space had to be made for other comments (note how McCallum's comment about the censors totally jars with what Lucas had said previously)

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Directly after they had trained Assaj (which was Dooku's own search for a replacement of Jango, not Palpatine if I remember right) then Palpatine requested her to find and kill Anakin Skywalker. She failed, now he tells Dooku to fight Anakin..... See that could be the case to, and the fact that in this comic they clearly see that Dooku won't be letting them get away alive. And this still doesn't describe why Dooku in the book is thinking "it is time to kill".

http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=19&f=30&name=Obsession_3_of_5

Lol I got dragged into the debate anyway....

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
Directly after they had trained Assaj (which was Dooku's own search for a replacement of Jango, not Palpatine if I remember right)

I don't know, from Palpatine's comments, I think it's more a case of Dooku finding and testing her as a 'deciple' (for the Sith) not just a personal enforcer like Jango.

Originally posted by kamikz
She failed, now he tells Dooku to fight Anakin..... See that could be the case to, and the fact that in this comic they clearly see that Dooku won't be letting them get away alive. And this still doesn't describe why Dooku in the book is thinking "it is time to kill".

http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=19&f=30&name=Obsession_3_of_5

Lol I got dragged into the debate anyway....


As I said, I haven't read the entire novelization, so I can't really comment with any certainty, but if he was thinking "it is time to kill", it could be a case of he did not like the way the duel was going and decided to end it, but, that's not with any real certainty. As for the comic, they're written by fanboys and like creating the most spectacular scenarios for their hero to overcome, knowing that plot necessity means they must survive 😉

Escape81 Restricted

Rofl. Vious was arguing that Lucas's words aren't canon? Lololol.

Sorry Vious. You've lost the debate. Why? You're arguing against canon.

Pyro Tyrannus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

I just saw the ROTS fight and I must say Dooku was grinning the whole time. He is better. Anakin reached out and grabbed his hands, he din't actually run through him with the saber. . .

Escape81 Restricted
Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
I just saw the ROTS fight and I must say Dooku was grinning the whole time. He is better. Anakin reached out and grabbed his hands, he din't actually rune through him with the saber. . .

This comment above isn't going to be enough to secure a victory. Especially when your contemporary likes to argue against canon statements made by George Lucas. I've provided bounds of evidence. You've provided an opinion, and Vious wants to argue a duel. '

I couldn't care less if you like Dooku, or even if you worship him. But Lucas said that Anakin proved his power by killing Count Dooku. If you'd like, go read my word-for-word transcript of the commentary - and where I combine it with all the other evidence.

Count Dooku was beaten. You'll just have to accept it.

Pyro Tyrannus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Originally posted by Escape81
This comment above isn't going to be enough to secure a victory. Especially when your contemporary likes to argue against canon statements made by George Lucas. I've provided bounds of evidence. You've provided an opinion, and Vious wants to argue a duel. '

I couldn't care less if you like Dooku, or even if you worship him. But Lucas said that Anakin proved his power by killing Count Dooku. If you'd like, go read my word-for-word transcript of the commentary - and where I combine it with all the other evidence.

Count Dooku was beaten. You'll just have to accept it.

I do accept it, you f*cking doofus. When Lucas said Anakin was powerful enough, he meant powerful enough to be the next Sith apprentice as Sidious had hoped. . .

Escape81 Restricted
Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
I do accept it, you f*cking doofus. When Lucas said Anakin was powerful enough, he meant powerful enough to be the next Sith apprentice as Sidious had hoped. . .

Firstly, I don't think you have the warrant to refer to anyone as a f*cking doofus - considering your arguments are perhaps the poorest here. Furthermore, I have fact. You have opinion. You're entitled to it, but yours bears nothing on the argument.

Secondly, yes. You're right. And how did he do that? By beating Count Dooku. He proved his power by killing Count Dooku. Use common sense. Why the hell would Sidious want Anakin if he is weaker than Dooku?

Especially when Lucas said that if Dooku won, he'd wait to make Anakin his apprentice?

Knowing all that - knowing that Sidious would wait for Anakin to become more powerful, even if he lost - why would he engineer the fight to be one sided?

It makes NO sense.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Escape81
Rofl. Vious was arguing that Lucas's words aren't canon? Lololol.

Sorry Vious. You've lost the debate. Why? You're arguing against canon.


How's this for a nice dose of 'canon', for you. In ANH, Luke was attracted to Leia, and clearly didn't like the idea of Han pursuing her. In ESB, when she kissed him (admitedly, it was to piss off Han), Luke was totally smug. If anything Lucas says or does is canon (including the movies) then that can only mean that Lucas intended for Luke to be attracted to Leia, something we in the Real World, like to call incest. If Lucas was to say something along the lines of "I'd've liked this to've gone on longer, but had to cut it for time." That does not mean that the existing movie is necessarily missing anything. It would only be ammended if a future version of the movie was released with additional scenes actually added into the original cut.
As for the debate, I have not lost it, because Dooku did not beat Anakin in a duel. I explained the basics of a duel before, did you not understand that? Was it too complicated for you to understand? Anakin was not a good enough swordsman to hit Dooku, he had to resort to physical methods, which meant they were no longer duelling.

Originally posted by Escape81
This comment above isn't going to be enough to secure a victory. Especially when your contemporary likes to argue against canon statements made by George Lucas. I've provided bounds of evidence. You've provided an opinion, and Vious wants to argue a duel. '

I couldn't care less if you like Dooku, or even if you worship him. But Lucas said that Anakin proved his power by killing Count Dooku. If you'd like, go read my word-for-word transcript of the commentary - and where I combine it with all the other evidence.

Count Dooku was beaten. You'll just have to accept it.


I fully accept that Dooku was beaten. You'll just have to accept that he was not beaten in a duel.

Pyro Tyrannus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Originally posted by Escape81
Firstly, I don't think you have the warrant to refer to anyone as a f*cking doofus - considering your arguments are perhaps the poorest here. Furthermore, I have fact. You have opinion. You're entitled to it, but yours bears nothing on the argument.

Secondly, yes. You're right. And how did he do that? By beating Count Dooku. He proved his power by killing Count Dooku. Use common sense. Why the hell would Sidious want Anakin if he is weaker than Dooku?

Especially when Lucas said that if Dooku won, he'd wait to make Anakin his apprentice?

Knowing all that - knowing that Sidious would wait for Anakin to become more powerful, even if he lost - why would he engineer the fight to be one sided?

It makes NO sense.

Your still not listening. Anakin is more powerful as potential goes. In a fight though. . .he would get schooled. Your really irretable. Why do you come here? All you do is spam your angry "DOOKU SUKCKS" posts. . .tell you what sit down and shut up. . .

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

How's this for a nice dose of 'canon', for you. In ANH, Luke was attracted to Leia, and clearly didn't like the idea of Han pursuing her. In ESB, when she kissed him (admitedly, it was to piss off Han), Luke was totally smug. If anything Lucas says or does is canon (including the movies) then that can only mean that Lucas intended for Luke to be attracted to Leia, something we in the Real World, like to call incest. If Lucas was to say something along the lines of "I'd've liked this to've gone on longer, but had to cut it for time." That does not mean that the existing movie is necessarily missing anything. It would only be ammended if a future version of the movie was released with additional scenes actually added into the original cut.
As for the debate, I have not lost it, because Dooku did not beat Anakin in a duel. I explained the basics of a duel before, did you not understand that? Was it too complicated for you to understand?

What does that have to do with anything? Luke didn't know Leia was his sister and in ESB she and Han were getting it on.

Oh and Dooku was beaten by Anakin. Dooku lost, Anakin won. So step down from your cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Originally posted by Darth Vious
I don't know, from Palpatine's comments, I think it's more a case of Dooku finding and testing her as a 'deciple' (for the Sith) not just a personal enforcer like Jango.

As I said, I haven't read the entire novelization, so I can't really comment with any certainty, but if he was thinking "it is time to kill", it could be a case of he did not like the way the duel was going and decided to end it, but, that's not with any real certainty. As for the comic, they're written by fanboys and like creating the most spectacular scenarios for their hero to overcome, knowing that plot necessity means they must survive 😉

Dooku went there to find a new follower, someone worthy Jango's potential. He was not there to find a force user, but he did. Later, he tested her and she was good enough to become his apprentice. Sidious orderd her to kill Anakin. So if it was Dooku or Sidious is really unclear....

Ok I'm pretty tired of you saying that it is the plot line. It doesn't matter, it happened the way it did, you can't blame anything on it. If it weren't for the plot line,anything could have happened, who knows. Plot line doesn't mean shit, and these comics are canon and it did indeed happend so you can't blame anything on that either, just because you rate that as fanboyism.....

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
What does that have to do with anything? Luke didn't know Leia was his sister

No, but Lucas did, yet he intentionally wrote scenes that had Luke attracted to Leia. The point I'm illustrating is that Lucas' intentions and opinions can still be overruled by the actual content of the movies, rather than what he had intended to do.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Oh and Dooku was beaten by Anakin. Dooku lost, Anakin won.

As I just said:
Originally posted by Darth Vious
I fully accept that Dooku was beaten. You'll just have to accept that he was not beaten in a duel.