Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Michael and Lucifer both individually and combined have never ever created a multiverse, they have however (according to Lucifers title) been involved whilst God made his own universe and then the Brothers proceeded to create Lucifers universe:http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716032260.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716103930.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716153878.jpg&s=x11
As for the Uncanny x-men/Teen titans crossover, we've been through this before Kev 😉
Phoenix who herself is a physical manifestation of the Phoenix Force was in said crossover formed from the Source and at the end of the title returned to the Source. This title suggested an equivalency between the Phoenix Force of Marvel and the Source of DC. Them both being the energies of creation for their respective multiverses.
Yup we have been through this before and you are not being fair to Lucifer GS which surprises me you mostly seem to be fair. 😖hifty: You know as a matter of fact The Source (and we could say Phoenix Force as well since they are 1 in the same) the Creators power in creation. Lucifer went to the Source Wall and stood on the left shoulder of The Source itself and IGNORED IT! Lucifer stood next to Michael when he was killed and the Demiurgos (Gods power) was released and Lucifer was not harmed. True when Lucifer and Michael was fighting near the end of Michaels life Michael blasted him 2 times with this kinda power and Lucifer looked horrible. Still though it matters what being was able to direct this sort of power effectively and perfectly at 1 being and not at anything else, and it was Michael who did this and is Lucifers twin. They was both here before creation was here to begin with. I don't think there is anything else to say GS. 😛
Ps he gets stopped by The Great Evil Beast.
Originally posted by GalacticStormhes also got no penis.
Michael and Lucifer both individually and combined have never ever created a multiverse, they have however (according to Lucifers title) been involved whilst God made his own universe and then the Brothers proceeded to create Lucifers universe:http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716032260.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716103930.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716153878.jpg&s=x11
As for the Uncanny x-men/Teen titans crossover, we've been through this before Kev 😉
Phoenix who herself is a physical manifestation of the Phoenix Force was in said crossover formed from the Source and at the end of the title returned to the Source. This title suggested an equivalency between the Phoenix Force of Marvel and the Source of DC. Them both being the energies of creation for their respective multiverses.
Originally posted by kevdude
Yup we have been through this before and you are not being fair to Lucifer GS which surprises me you mostly seem to be fair. 😖hifty: You know as a matter of fact The Source (and we could say Phoenix Force as well since they are 1 in the same) the Creators power in creation. Lucifer went to the Source Wall and stood on the left shoulder of The Source itself and IGNORED IT!
Lucifer ignored it because he had no business with it. Youre reading far too much into that instance. Its not like the Source talked to Lucifer or attacked him and he ignored it, in which case you'd have justification in bringing it up. Where the Source resides is a perfect vantage point from which Lucifer could survey all that he needed to as stated and therefore he went there and they watched creation side by side thats all.
The Phoenix Force is more than just the power of creation that lies within creation, it is also a consciousness that lies beyond creation in the Crown where it surveys its work, deciding when to manifest as avatars to carry out maintenance work or to manifest as the Big Bang to spark off a new creation. 😉
Originally posted by kevdude
Lucifer stood next to Michael when he was killed and the Demiurgos (Gods power) was released and Lucifer was not harmed.
Therefore Lucifer survived a universal level explosion. Big deal. Most of the people in this gauntlet could do the same.
Originally posted by kevdude
True when Lucifer and Michael was fighting near the end of Michaels life Michael blasted him 2 times with this kinda power and Lucifer looked horrible. Still though it matters what being was able to direct this sort of power effectively and perfectly at 1 being and not at anything else, and it was Michael who did this and is Lucifers twin.
By the time this fight took place both Brothers powers had dwindled due to Yahwehs absence from creation so thats really not impressive
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/11511574894.jpg&s=x402
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/11512014295.jpg&s=x402
Originally posted by kevdude
They was both here before creation was here to begin with. I don't think there is anything else to say GS. 😛
As was Galactus and Phoenix certainly was so i fail to see your point. In fact as stated by Yahweh in issue 39 of Lucifer he had gone through many prototypes before he settled, he therefore knew how creation was going to turn out and as he stated he didnt need the brothers. Theyre not integral to creation and he was making practice creations before they were around.
Originally posted by kevdude
Ps he gets stopped by The Great Evil Beast.
Thats for sure but going by on panel performances thats not the only unsurpassable obstacle he'll come across here 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Lucifer ignored it because he had no business with it. Youre reading far too much into that instance. Its not like the Source talked to Lucifer or attacked him and he ignored it, in which case you'd have justification in bringing it up. Where the Source resides is a perfect vantage point from which Lucifer could survey all that he needed to as stated and therefore he went there and they watched creation side by side thats all.The Phoenix Force is more than just the power of creation that lies within creation, it is also a consciousness that lies beyond creation in the Crown where it surveys its work, deciding when to manifest as avatars to carry out maintenance work or to manifest as the Big Bang to spark off a new creation. 😉
Therefore Lucifer survived a universal level explosion. Big deal. Most of the people in this gauntlet could do the same.
By the time this fight took place both Brothers powers had dwindled due to Yahwehs absence from creation so thats really not impressive
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/11511574894.jpg&s=x402
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/11512014295.jpg&s=x402
As was Galactus and Phoenix certainly was so i fail to see your point. In fact as stated by Yahweh in issue 39 of Lucifer he had gone through many prototypes before he settled, he therefore knew how creation was going to turn out and as he stated he didnt need the brothers. Theyre not integral to creation and he was making practice creations before they were around.
Thats for sure but going by on panel performances thats not the only unsurpassable obstacle he'll come across here 😉
Yah he had no business with The Source but still he just ignored it. Notice right before Lucifer lands on its shoulder it looks as though it was something and its eyes was up in its head. Right after Lucifer lands on its shoulder The Source looks right at him and does nothing (Lucifer doesn't do anything either to it). They both did not get into a fight but it clearly shows who is paying MORE attention to 1 of them then the 1 who couldn't care less about the other.
The problem with this about Galactus and Phoenix is that they both was not here before Lucifer or Michael! At 1 point in time The Source came into existence and its power created Creation (Gods power/Gods Will). There is really no reason to say that Lucifer and Michael are not integral to creation. Of course God did not need them 😉 . But it is fact that 1 of them (with Elaine) was to take over his spot, and rule creation for him.
GS
"The Phoenix Force is more than just the power of creation that lies within creation, it is also a consciousness that lies beyond creation in the Crown where it surveys its work, deciding when to manifest as avatars to carry out maintenance work or to manifest as the Big Bang to spark off a new creation. 😉"
True but u do know that it still comes from The Source right? it lies beyond creation and is The Crown/The Source aka Gods will. Understand now why it seems to be TOAA? True it may not be TOAA but from what it looks like it IS.
About the brothers fighting, they was STILL the most powerful beings at this time period. Don't see whats not so impressive about that 🙄 . And pretty much everything and everyone was dwindling down in power because of Gods absence.
I don't think from what i've read that half of those beings can even take a blast like that when Michael was killed. Don't know about the other half.
Originally posted by kevdude
Yah he had no business with The Source but still he just ignored it. Notice right before Lucifer lands on its shoulder it looks as though it was something and its eyes was up in its head. Right after Lucifer lands on its shoulder The Source looks right at him and does nothing (Lucifer doesn't do anything either to it). They both did not get into a fight but it clearly shows who is paying MORE attention to 1 of them then the 1 who couldn't care less about the other.
Bottom line is youre reading too much into that instance. You are not justified in presenting it as evidence of Lucifers comparative greatness when, statement from either party, no display of power took place. Lets move on.
Originally posted by kevdude
The problem with this about Galactus and Phoenix is that they both was not here before Lucifer or Michael! At 1 point in time The Source came into existence and its power created Creation (Gods power/Gods Will). There is really no reason to say that Lucifer and Michael are not integral to creation. Of course God did not need them 😉 . But it is fact that 1 of them (with Elaine) was to take over his spot, and rule creation for him.
What do you mean that neither Galactus or Phoenix werent around before the brothers? Not that im saying they were but how do you know that? Theyre from two completely different comic book companies with totally seperate continuities. With that in mind not only have you no evidence whatsoever to support your claim, but on top of that as the two creations have nothing canon to do with each the point is irrelevant either way.
Phoenix cyclically makes creation over and over again. It is the power of creation and was there from the beginning, even before this creation. Lucifer and Michael were around before the current Vertigo creation thats all. Plus on top of that before them God had made many practice attempts at creation and as God stated in Lucifer they had no integral part in the making of the current Vertigo creation.
Originally posted by kevdude
GS
"The Phoenix Force is more than just the power of creation that lies within creation, it is also a consciousness that lies beyond creation in the Crown where it surveys its work, deciding when to manifest as avatars to carry out maintenance work or to manifest as the Big Bang to spark off a new creation. 😉"True but u do know that it still comes from The Source right? it lies beyond creation and is The Crown/The Source aka Gods will. Understand now why it seems to be TOAA? True it may not be TOAA but from what it looks like it IS.
We've been through this before however the lengthy timespan since we last had this discussion seems to have wiped all traces of said discussion from your memory.
DC creation and Marvel creation are TOTALLY separate. They have nothing to do with each other whatsoever. What we do know however is that they exist in the same omniverse. However Yahweh and his manifestations are strictly DC just as the Phoenix Force and TOAA (or whatever Marvels supreme being is) are strictly DC. What that could suggest is that there is one supreme being who manifests differently to each creation (Yahweh for DC, TOAA for Marvel) however what you ar ecompletely unjustified in doing is trying to present the non-canonical viewpoint that DC's god and manifestations are one and the same as Marvels. Please understand that. No more OPINION on how you think they are connected.
The X-men/Teen Titans crossover was just a one shot, completely non canonical crossover. A phoenix manifestation stemming from the Source is merely an attempt to highlight what Phoenixes role is. As the Source is the power of creation in DC so to is the Phoenix in Marvel, however they are not one and the same thing.
Originally posted by kevdude
About the brothers fighting, they was STILL the most powerful beings at this time period. Don't see whats not so impressive about that 🙄 . And pretty much everything and everyone was dwindling down in power because of Gods absence.
You first off made reference to Lucifer surviving the full unleashing of Michaels power (the demiurgic explosion) as an example of Lucifers durability you then tried to compare the power unleashed in the Brothers later battle with said explosion. I then highlighted how the Brothers powers had majorly dwindled by this point therefore your attempt to compare the two instances was illogical.
Originally posted by kevdude
I don't think from what i've read that half of those beings can even take a blast like that when Michael was killed. Don't know about the other half.
Lucifer survived a universal level explosion. Big wow. Even the abstracts can survive the destruction of a universe as stated on panel:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508393059.jpg&s=x11
That in and of itself really doesnt help your case in the slightest.
Lucifer has no on panel showing of power which is anywhere near the likes of even the IG let alone the Phoenix Force and thats non debatable.
Originally posted by eleveninches
The only ones there that would be really difficult for him to beat are Archangel Michael and TGEB, and he already kiled archangel michael.
Very true. For some reason GS is still thinking Phoenix > Lucifer. Not true when Lucifer was here before the Source. Maybe thats why your protecting The Source because if it goes that Lucifer > The Source then Lucifer > Phoenix. Also Eternity himself is above the IG, from what i've read in 1 of Mr. Masters posts (with a picture Eternity stating this also). Your losing GS and you know u are 😛 .
Originally posted by kevdude
Very true. For some reason GS is still thinking Phoenix > Lucifer. Not true when Lucifer was here before the Source. Maybe thats why your protecting The Source because if it goes that Lucifer > The Source then Lucifer > Phoenix. Also Eternity himself is above the IG, from what i've read in 1 of Mr. Masters posts (with a picture Eternity stating this also). Your losing GS and you know u are 😛 .
1) The Source and Pheonix are not equal, and that crossover suggesting so is non canon. GalacticStorm already proved so.
2) Eternity is NOT above Infinity Gauntlet, where the hell are you getting your information from? 🤨 (He's not above CLASSIC IG, maybe current IG, but not classic at all)
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) The Source and Pheonix are not equal, and that crossover suggesting so is non canon. GalacticStorm already proved so.2) Eternity is [b]NOT
above Infinity Gauntlet, where the hell are you getting your information from? 🤨 (He's not above CLASSIC IG, maybe current IG, but not classic at all) [/B]
1. The point is that the Phoenix comes from The Source. It comes from The Crown which in religion/Christianity is Gods Will/His power. The Crown is right outside and sits on top of creation (this is The Crown aka The Source as shown in that crossover). It does not matter if this crossover is canon or not, simply stating it comes from the Crown when they do have it in continuity is prof enough. GS I do believe knows this deep down though GS is not always right LU. But really the Phoenix is not equal to The Source, it may come from it, but still needs its return to it from time to time. Its relationship kinda resembles Takion in DC.
2. About Eternity and the IG and wanting prof? here you go, look in this thread Top Five Most Powerful Displays of Power EVER in Marvel or DC. Go to page 5 and look all the way down and see Mr. Masters post?? Read it correctly and you will notice what Eternity says and how he says it that hes > IG. 😮💨
Originally posted by Mider
current IG i havent heard of the IG being used in a while whats it up to now?
Infinity Gauntlet has been retconned.
Original Infinity Gauntlet was spawned from a being who sacraficed itself to form the Universe. Any and all realities was already part of this being. Out of loneliness this being ended itself, but the manifestation of its power resulted in the birth of those six gems.
Current Infinity Gauntlet is now only an aspect of Eternity and/or Pheonix Force. It is no longer the "infinitely" powerful icon it was years ago, now it's rewritten so that it's not truly infinite or that influential in power.
