Lucifer hits the Gauntlet !!!

Originally posted by kevdude
1. The point is that the Phoenix comes from The Source. It comes from The Crown which in religion/Christianity is Gods Will/His power. The Crown is right outside and sits on top of creation (this is The Crown aka The Source as shown in that crossover). It does not matter if this crossover is canon or not, simply stating it comes from the Crown when they do have it in continuity is prof enough. GS I do believe knows this deep down though GS is not always right LU. But really the Phoenix is not equal to The Source, it may come from it, but still needs its return to it from time to time. Its relationship kinda resembles Takion in DC.

1) How does religion and Christianity have a role in the comic books?

2) The Crossover is non-canon therefore its "truth" is invalid. The forum rules themselves already say that crossovers do not count.

3) I know Galactic Storm is not always right, you don't need to convince me of that 😉

4) You say that the Pheonix' existance comes from the source from the MARVEL continuity, independent from DC? (When DC is the only company that actually uses "the source)...okay prove it. Tell me what issues, what specific info backs this up. Thanks

Originally posted by kevdude
2. About Eternity and the IG and wanting prof? here you go, look in this thread Top Five Most Powerful Displays of Power EVER in Marvel or DC. Go to page 5 and look all the way down and see Mr. Masters post?? Read it correctly and you will notice what Eternity says and how he says it that hes > IG. 😮‍💨

Doesn't mean anything. IG has been retconned to such. I was talking about CLASSIC IG....

CLASSIC IG is beyond Eternity. CURRENT IG is below him.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

Doesn't mean anything. IG has been retconned to such. I was talking about CLASSIC IG....

CLASSIC IG is beyond Eternity. CURRENT IG is below him. [/B]

What is the back story of this retconning? Would you care to tell me more about this? What happened and when did this happen.

Thanks in advance LU.

i would still have preferred lucifer to be beyond the old IG not the new one ok how do they explain thanos feats with the IG if its not even as powerful as before?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
What is the back story of this retconning? Would you care to tell me more about this? What happened and when did this happen.

Thanks in advance LU.

1) Originally Infinity Gauntlet was a multiversal power, Mr.Master already proved this himself. Infinity Gauntlet derived from the being which was the embodyment of ALL EXISTANCE...there was nothing that existed before it, no universes, no eternities, no pheonixes, nothing....it was any and all realities.....it committed a cosmic suicide out of the intense loneliness it felt from the fact that no matter what it created, was only PART of itself...there was no OTHER...

After its "death", its power became manifested into the Six Infinity Gems.

2) According to debators like GalacticStorm, Infinity Gauntlet has been retconned to the point where it is NOW only an aspect of Eternity, and below the Pheonix Force. HE most likely made this up, as he has no scans to prove this point. However, if this NEW concept of IG is true.....then it most likely would have been to enable HOTU to be more impressive. 😉

Originally posted by Mider
i would still have preferred lucifer to be beyond the old IG not the new one ok how do they explain thanos feats with the IG if its not even as powerful as before?

But he's NOT....❌

And ofcourse you would have preferred this, you are a DC fanboy who disregards much of Marvel's Truth. You dislike Living Tribunal to such an extant to even exxagerate events that never happened the way you say they did, in order to make him look weaker than Spectre.

Mr. Master has already PROVEN that Classic IG is MULTIVERSAL in POWER, and TRULY INFINITE......

Lucifer doesn't even begin to COMPARE to the power of IG.

Lucifer created ONE universe on his own, and needs Micheal's help to create a multiverse...while classic Infinity Gauntlet is the manifestation of the POWER that belonged to the omniversal being which created the Marvel Multiverses, before GalacticStorm claims it was retconned. 😉

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

2) According to debators like GalacticStorm, Infinity Gauntlet has been retconned to the point where it is NOW only an aspect of Eternity, and below the Pheonix Force. HE most likely made this up, as he has no scans to prove this point. However, if this NEW concept of IG is true.....then it most likely would have been to enable HOTU to be more impressive. 😉

Just checking since this is the first time I've heard of a retcon. No other board is making this claim.

So there is no retcon is there. Some poster just claims that the Infinity Gauntlet was retcon WITHOUT PROOF of said retcon. It's good to know the Infinity Gauntlet is still multiversal.

And thanks for the telling me this Lord Urizen. Unless I see proof from somebody that the IG is part of Eternity, Infinity Gauntlet power is still above Eternity and the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Just checking since this is the first time I've heard of a retcon. No other board is making this claim.

So there is no retcon is there. Some poster just claims that the Infinity Gauntlet was retcon WITHOUT PROOF of said retcon. It's good to know the Infinity Gauntlet is still multiversal.

And thanks for the telling me this Lord Urizen. Unless I see proof from somebody that the IG is part of Eternity, Infinity Gauntlet power is still above Eternity and the Phoenix Force.

No Problem. Let is be known that the only reason I beleived IG was retconned was because GalacticStorm claimed it to be so. He said the Pheonix Force is above IG in our last argument...he never showed any proof, but i took his word for it.

Apparently he is the only person who claimed this....such a liar this dude is. 🙄

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
No Problem. Let is be known that the only reason I beleived IG was retconned was because GalacticStorm claimed it to be so. He said the Pheonix Force is above IG in our last argument...he never showed any proof, but i took his word for it.

Apparently he is the only person who claimed this....such a liar this dude is. 🙄

That guy seems notorious around here for lying. Just read some threads where GS claimed Phoenix was responsible for creating Eternity, Death, Infinity, and of course...LOL LOL the Living Tribunal himself.

The Phoenix Force is part of the cycle of the universe. I don't even get where that puts it above Chaos much less someone like Eternity.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
That guy seems notorious around here for lying. Just read some threads where GS claimed Phoenix was responsible for creating Eternity, Death, Infinity, and of course...LOL LOL the Living Tribunal himself.

The Phoenix Force is part of the cycle of the universe. I don't even get where that puts it above Chaos much less someone like Eternity.

And the scary thing is I actually took his word for it.

I trusted him wholeheartedly...to me he seemed like the EXPERT on Pheonix, yet he made all that crap up? Damn man....

I mean people trust me all the time when it comes to Spawn information, and I do my best to supply non bias factual information, free of religious, personal, or professional bias.

I also always welcome anyone with knowledge on Spawn to challenge and question my stances, and I always respond with some sort of proof.

GalacticStorm....so far I am seeing this as a serious dissapointment. I don't know whether to continue beleiving anything he says, or just take it into assumption that he makes up most of the "facts" he gives.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And the scary thing is I actually took his word for it.

I trusted him wholeheartedly...to me he seemed like the EXPERT on Pheonix, yet he made all that crap up? Damn man....

I mean people trust me all the time when it comes to [b]Spawn information, and I do my best to supply non bias factual information, free of religious, personal, or professional bias.

I also always welcome anyone with knowledge on Spawn to challenge and question my stances, and I always respond with some sort of proof.

GalacticStorm....so far I am seeing this as a serious dissapointment. I don't know whether to continue beleiving anything he says, or just take it into assumption that he makes up most of the "facts" he gives. [/B]

I thought this part was funny:

"GS:
Phoenix cyclically makes creation over and over again. It is the power of creation and was there from the beginning, even before this creation. Lucifer and Michael were around before the current Vertigo creation thats all. Plus on top of that before them God had made many practice attempts at creation and as God stated in Lucifer they had no integral part in the making of the current Vertigo creation."

How many time does the Multivere get remade? 😕 The Multiverse is created by THE ONE ABOVE ALL. This guy (GS) is claiming that the multiverse has a cycle and it goes round and round as direct by the PF. LOL

At most, a universe dies (Eternity) and a new beginning comes when a spark (Phoenix Force) causes another big bang and a new universe is formed (Entropy becoming the new Eternity). Phoenix ensures ressurection from death or "the ending of all, and the beginning of all."

Phoenix is a spark of creation for a universe, not the multiverse. She ensures that the cycle of a universe continues.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
At most, a universe dies (Eternity) and a new beginning comes when a spark (Phoenix Force) causes another big bang and a new universe is formed (Entropy becoming the new Eternity). Phoenix ensures ressurection from death or "the ending of all, and the beginning of all."

Phoenix is a spark of creation for a universe, not the multiverse. She ensures that the cycle of a universe continues.

So what now you said, than PF is trully responsibile for creating Eternity.

Originally posted by Xplosive
So what now you said, than PF is trully responsibile for creating Eternity.

You didn't even read what I wrote. Phoenix plays a role instance where the old universe dies and the new universe is born. She doesn't create anything. She just ensures the cycle continues.

Creating Eternity is something PF NEVER did.

Guys this thread is getting way off topic. Please stay on topic.

Whether you are talking about Pheonix, Eternity, IG, etc. please relate it to its chances against Lucifer.

Thank you 😉

yeah the experts have left the building 🙁

Lucifer loses at 2. woow some gauntlet...

they say that being an archangel in DC makes you the most powerful being and yet nobody thinks that lucifer could pull off things that they say spectre could instead im not of course refuring to full powered spectre since it minus will be the presence himself fighting.

Originally posted by General Kon-El
Lucifer loses at 2. woow some gauntlet...

The Order is of no imporance. How many contenders of the gauntlet could he beat, and why?

Originally posted by kevdude
Very true. For some reason GS is still thinking Phoenix > Lucifer. Not true when Lucifer was here before the Source. Maybe thats why your protecting The Source because if it goes that Lucifer > The Source then Lucifer > Phoenix. Also Eternity himself is above the IG, from what i've read in 1 of Mr. Masters posts (with a picture Eternity stating this also). Your losing GS and you know u are 😛 .

Im thinking it because Phoenix has greater feats than him. Lucifer is just a shaper. Phoenix is both a shaper and a creator.Lucifers best feat is shaping a universe gradually over days. Phoenix as per canon is not only the Big Bang which spawns universes but as we've seen she can and has shaped a universe in the palm of her hand in seconds.

The Uncanny/TT crossover never stated that Phoenix and the Source were the same thing. It merely implied they were equivalents in their respective creations. They are after all from two completely separate companies and comic book creations. Therefore treating that notion as fact and then going on to form an argument around that notion is not a smart move 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im thinking it because Phoenix has greater feats than him. Lucifer is just a shaper. Phoenix is both a shaper and a creator.Lucifers best feat is shaping a universe gradually over days. Phoenix as per canon is not only the Big Bang which spawns universes but as we've seen she can and has shaped a universe in the palm of her hand in seconds.

The Uncanny/TT crossover never stated that Phoenix and the Source were the same thing. It merely implied they were equivalents in their respective creations. They are after all from two completely separate companies and comic book creations. Therefore treating that notion as fact and then going on to form an argument around that notion is not a smart move 😉

Did Pheonix SHAPE a universe in her palm in seconds from absolutely nothing, or heal one that was already established? I recall Reed Richards shaping the Marvel 616 after Eternity sparked its creation. In a way... very similar to Lucifer and Micheal.

Originally posted by Juntai
Depends on what point of view, I guess. From outside The Plan, he could see creation as a whole come and go in an instant, from the time he shaped it for Yahweh, to when he rebelled, to its end.

Im not so sure about all of that Juntai. But regardless of all the hype surrounding the character he does not have the feats to say he is greater than many of the beings featured on this gauntlet.

Originally posted by Juntai
Did Pheonix SHAPE a universe in her palm in seconds from absolutely nothing, or heal one that was already established? I recall Reed Richards shaping the Marvel 616 after Eternity sparked its creation. In a way... very similar to Lucifer and Micheal.

The point is irrelevant as all Lucifer did was shape matter provided for him. As stated on panel and in their bios even cosmic cubes can at full potential shape matter on a universal scale. Phoenix fatally wounded 616 and then she telekinetically restructured it atom by atom in the palm of her hand on a whim. It wasnt even something she had to do, the other avatars said they wouldnt bother but she chose to rectify things out of sentimentality. Jean did after all used to exist in said reality.

Reed Richards was shown a visualisation of how Eternity came into being. Him and the Entity were exploring the origins of life. Eternity is the embodiment of all that lies along the temporal axis. The title made clear that all Reeds actions were as an extension of Eternity, because as the embodiment of all that is humans are as much a part of the Eternity as the stars. What the title revealed by the end is that when Eternity first gained sentience his questions on his own existence were a signal for the start of the cycle. It was basically an exploration of that thought equals existence theory. That writers interpretation however didnt make it into continuity and since its publication last year there have been titles released which ignore it and Eternitys bio makes no reference to it.