Lucifer hits the Gauntlet !!!

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Stuff like him meeting the source suggests a tie in to the DCU which throws me off on that. Michael may not have made the universe but he himself was able to maintainit after Yahweh left. Also didn't the Spectre meet this Lucifer? There are many ties that give the connection between that and the DC multiverse.

Youre assuming that the Source featured in the Vertigo title Lucifer is the same one featured in Dc comics. Michael never maintained the universe after Yahweh left, he failed in that task and it was Elaine who did so by becoming the new supreme being. Spectre may have met Lucifer in DC, but nowhere in the Vertigo title has this Lucifer been shown to have met the Spectre.

Also in an old Sandman book, Lucifer makes references to the devil that fought Etrigan. These give me the Impression that Yahweh is the presence of the DC multiverse.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Also in an old Sandman book, Lucifer makes references the devil that fought Etrigan. These give me the Impression that Yahweh is the presence of the DC multiverse.

Not conclusive evidence im afraid. Having the same characters isnt evidence of them being the same continuity. Look at 616 comics and What Ifs.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre assuming that the Source featured in the Vertigo title Lucifer is the same one featured in Dc comics. Michael never maintained the universe after Yahweh left, he failed in that task and it was Elaine who did so by becoming the new supreme being. Spectre may have met Lucifer in DC, but nowhere in the Vertigo title has this Lucifer been shown to have met the Spectre.

Originally posted by bbrem123
no because of what is stated in scans...which i guess u havnt looked at

Where does it state that the I Being or the I Gems are multiversal in power? Where is the IG shown applying its power across all realities of the multiverse?

Thats precisely my point. You and MrMaster think that the feats achieved by the IG shouldnt be possible by a universal power so youre treating that opinion as fact. Doesnt work like that im afraid.

My Wolverine example highlights that absurd approach.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not conclusive evidence im afraid. Having the same characters isnt evidence of them being the same continuity. Look at 616 comics and What Ifs.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Even swamp thing is another tie in to both the Vertigo and Dc Universe. I would say its a pretty safe bet that that Source is the same as the DC source

Its not a tie in. Its just the use of the same characters. Again look at mainstream comics and What Ifs, or the Ultimate Label.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where does it state that the I Being or the I Gems are multiversal in power? Where is the IG shown applying its power across all realities of the multiverse?

Thats precisely my point. You and MrMaster think that the feats achieved by the IG shouldnt be possible by a universal power so youre treating that opinion as fact. Doesnt work like that im afraid.

My Wolverine example highlights that absurd approach.

like i said look at the scans

Originally posted by Big Sexy
But there is nothing that definitely states that Lucifer comics and the DCU are out of different continuity. The preacher comics has been stated as fact of n ot being in continuity with DCU.

If thats the case you cant assume that they are within continuity. There is nothing in the Lucifer title which conclusively marks out the characters and the continuity itself as being the same.

Did we see any repercussions from the Infinite Crisis event in Lucifer. Did we see the fallout from Yahwehs departure in DC titles? See my point?

http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igcreatedmephisto8bo.jpg

all that was throughout infinity

Originally posted by bbrem123
like i said look at the scans

Ive already looked at the scans. None of those things are shown. Therefore my last post is still valid and requires addressing:

Where does it state that the I Being or the I Gems are multiversal in power? Where is the IG shown applying its power across all realities of the multiverse?

Thats precisely my point. You and MrMaster think that the feats achieved by the IG shouldnt be possible by a universal power so youre treating that opinion as fact. Doesnt work like that im afraid.

My Wolverine example highlights that absurd approach.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its not a tie in. Its just the use of the same characters. Again look at mainstream comics and What Ifs, or the Ultimate Label.

Originally posted by bbrem123
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igcreatedmephisto8bo.jpg

all that was throughout infinity

Thats funny because i could swear Infinity is a universal abstract 😂

I could swear the universal abstract Eternity is said to embody all that is and to be infinite despite only embodying a universe.

Again, it all goes back to the point about the naivete in taking terms of that nature literally at their every use. 😉

All the other universes of the marvel continuity are part of the marvel multiverse. Thats why the LT in them is the same from all universes. Even if it was in a different universe, its still part of the dc multiverse where the presence=Yahweh is the ruler of it all.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Yeah but what ifs and the ultimate universe are considered to be connections of the marvel multiverse. I still believe though that Yahweh=the Presence

Well its fine to believe that, youre entitled to that opinion. But just remember that its just that. It took me some time to realise that about the Phoenix/TOAA/Kaballah stuff.

But do you see my point about Crisis? It was a multiversal spanning event, if the Lucifer title was continuity it would have been affected. Similarly if you believe Yahweh is DC's Presence then Yahwehs departure would have been felt in DC. We wouldnt have had Gods intervention at the end of Days of Vengeance, in fact we wouldnt have had Spectre around at all. 😉

Originally posted by Big Sexy
All the other universes of the marvel continuity are part of the marvel multiverse. Thats why the LT in them is the same from all universes. Even if it was in a different universe, its still part of the dc multiverse where the presence=Yahweh is the ruler of it all.

A continuity would be Ultimate, Supremeverse, New Universe and of course 616. If Vertigo was in continuity then Vertigo would be DC. For example Wolverine of 616 would be running around in the Ultimate Universe. That clearly isnt the case.

I do have another question about the comic though. Remember Michaels plan would have succeeded, but didn't because of the whole deal with fenris and the world tree. My question is why was it so taxing on Michael to keep up Gods creation when elaine showed that with mIchaels power she could make her own creation.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I do have another question about the comic though. Remember Michaels plan would have succeeded, but didn't because of the whole deal with fenris and the world tree. My question is why was it so taxing on Michael to keep up Gods creation when elaine showed that with mIchaels power she could make her own creation.

I think because a supreme being was required to maintain what a supreme being had brought about. Remember as stated Michael and Lucifer only watched as Yahweh made his creation, he taught them their skills in that way. So with creation falling apart, Michael dead and Lucifer not willing to sit on the Primum Mobile and take up his birthright, it was up to Elaine.

Originally posted by bbrem123
no because of what is stated in scans...which i guess u havnt looked at

you're free to accept mm at his word, but i'm curious what makes you so convinced? you must be careful of ambiguous terminology. so when 'universes' are merged, that does NOT mean that the IG is multiversal. the multiverse consists of individual continuities, not universes. each individual eternity is comprised of countless dimensions/realities/actualities AND universes . . .

the in first scan, dormammu has defeated eternity and prepares to immerse himself in eternity's powers . . .

in the next one, pay close attention to what he says: "worlds within worlds! dimensions folding into themselves! entire UNIVERSES being born and collapsing into ruin!" and yet all this is the "merest FRACTION of what eternity is!"

and lastly, dormmy assumes the role of eternity and procedes to remake everything, creating new versions (later in the series) of strange and all the heroes, etc . . .

believe mm, agree with out side, take your own stance. just be aware that terminology is NOT consistent and just because someone is merging 2 universes, does NOT mean they are outside of marvel 616 continuity -- which is what it would take to be TRULY multiversal.

there is much more evidence then just that