Lucifer hits the Gauntlet !!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As previously stated the handbook writer highlighted first and foremost that there are different interpretations of the IG (as i said to much disbelief all along) he then highlights the only real difference between the two interpretations as being the current interpretation the I Being had no part in the creation of a universe. If thats the only difference then does that or does that not mark out the IG as universal in both interpretations? Please take note of what else was said elsewhere on that page. UNIVERSAL!!! 😂

i dont think he's going by handbooks i think he's just saying that even the handbook which is faulty to GS says the IG is not multiversal

lol a kid with a crucifix would nail his ass "by the power of christ I compel you"

Originally posted by Mider
cant lucifer rewrite the rules so the IG is a peace of junk, or he can exist outside of the multiverse doesnt that mean he can exist outside of time,space, and the IG's influence.

For current retconned IG, probably, since current IG is only universal and a result of the Big Bang, hence below eternity.

As for Classic IG, no way. Classic IG makes you God, there are no rules of the IG, they simply are. Not to mention classic IG has power beyond the power of a single universe, evidently even multiversal...

So for classic IG, no Lucifer cannot rewrite that.

However, there are other ways to gain a victory. I think the better question is could Lucifer trick Thanos into somehow defeating himself, even with IG, or would the Mind Gem and Soul Gem allow Thanos to decipher Lucifer's motives?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
For current retconned IG, probably, since current IG is only universal and a result of the Big Bang, hence below eternity.

As for Classic IG, no way. Classic IG makes you God, there are no rules of the IG, they simply are. Not to mention classic IG has power beyond the power of a single universe, evidently even multiversal...

So for classic IG, no Lucifer cannot rewrite that.

However, there are other ways to gain a victory. I think the better question is could Lucifer trick Thanos into somehow defeating himself, even with IG, or would the Mind Gem and Soul Gem allow Thanos to decipher Lucifer's motives?

when was it retconned?

i thought the ig came from the infinity being which made the multiverse.

god?

is ig or was ig more powerful than the old beyonder?

i bumped into his respect thread today, awesome.

pre-retcon Beyonder respect thread in here.

musicness http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t412978.html

Originally posted by unknowable
is ig or was ig more powerful than the old beyonder?

No chance.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Again that only serves to further show her limits. "I had to amputate the future" because of a rogue bacterial colony. Fear the rogue bacterial colony. A being that's being elevated to high cosmic level is unable to disperse with a bacterial colony without killing the future.
Still speculatory. Where does it say the universe was disconnected from the rest of the multiverse. Frankly killing the future of a universe through inability to do otherwise isn't that impressive either.

The act of cutting away the entire future is a very impressive feat and demonstrates Jeans power over the time/space axis. The disregard shown by Jean for the consequences brought about by the completion of her task (the fatal wounding of the universe) and the fact that one of the other avatars said that he wouldn’t bother fixing 616 tells you that ultimately the fate of any single reality is unimportant to the Phoenix Force. Its duties extend beyond any one reality.

Jean saying she had to amputate the future merely tells you she is not omnipotent in the literal sense of the word. Jean Grey is not the supreme being so of course she has limits. 😕 Just like the Living Tribunal had to seal away Korvac because his judgement had failed. Limits are only non-existent for one being. She does however still have the best feats in Marvel. 🙂

As for where it’s stated that the universe was separated from the rest of the multiverse, it is stated by the Consciousness during this repair process that this orphan universe had lost its parents, it had become separated from the megasystems. Ive posted the scans enough times for you to get hold of them. It’s about time you did some research anyway.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I've read through far too many of your inextricably and superfluously long essays to be considered lazy, I don't need to read another 10 pages of rehash.

Thats rich coming from the guy who has posted the exact same question in multiple threads despite the answer being posted repeatedly. Lazy? ✅

If you can’t be bothered to read the content of a thread then have a think about whether you should actually bother to post your stance in a thread.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's only your opinion that she didn't need to go through the process. Either incapable or inefficient.

Just like it’s only your opinion that she does have to go through the process which is odd considering her power level and:

Considering that her physical form has been fatally wounded and shes regenerated instantly,

that she can and has shrugged off far greater attacks from far more powerful beings without being harmed because it was her wish to do so,

that after she committed suicide on the moon as depicted in Excalibur 52 she lingered around watching events before going about her business

Jean manifests where and when she is needed.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Shattered into a billion pieces and forcibly reconstituted by the Shi'ar. Pick and choose, doesn't seem so.

The universal manifestation of the Phoenix Force which the bio refers to was shattered and reconstituted, there was no mention or depiction of the Consciousness as a whole being involved therefore your point ultimately is irrelevant. Big Deal. None of that changes the fact that Phoenix has the best feats in Marvel or takes away from the Forces role and status in comics. Just like how Spectre being manipulated by Alex Luthor or LT having his manifestation destroyed by Reed Richards (Last Planet Standing) or consumed in Marvel The End doesn’t take away from theirs. 🙁

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are we going by handbooks now? Because the handbook entry on the Phoenix Force calls it a manifestation of the universal life force, and says that it was born from the Big Bang.

The Handbook doesn’t say that Phoenix was born of the Big Bang. It says it was reborn. The writers stating that it was of the Big Bang well that is discounted by a variety of on panel accounts which state that the Phoenix IS the Big Bang while at the same time it is the brains behind the cycle. It sparks it off which is in line with their being a Phoenix manifestation at a universal level and simultaneously a Phoenix in the White Hot Room. The difference here is that I can discount the handbook writers’ words with many contrary on panel accounts, the I Being being multiversal is discounted many a time both on panel and the handbook entry just adds further weight to the notion. See the difference? Cool. 😱

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
For current retconned IG, probably, since current IG is only universal and a result of the Big Bang, hence below eternity.

As for Classic IG, no way. Classic IG makes you God, there are no rules of the IG, they simply are. Not to mention classic IG has power beyond the power of a single universe, evidently even multiversal...

The Classic IG makes you A God. It didnt turn you into the supreme being. LTs confrontation with the IG proved that. In accordance with TOAA's will LT stood up against the IG. The IG just made you very powerful.

Having the ability to affect another reality other than your own, other than that which your power is derived from does NOT equate to being multiversal. Multiversal is the ability to affect every reality of the multiverse simultaneously. Being able to affect another reality doesnt dispute a universal status.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The act of cutting away the entire future is a very impressive feat and demonstrates Jeans power over the time/space axis. The disregard shown by Jean for the consequences brought about by the completion of her task (the fatal wounding of the universe) and the fact that one of the other avatars said that he wouldn’t bother fixing 616 tells you that ultimately the fate of any single reality is unimportant to the Phoenix Force. Its duties extend beyond any one reality.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean saying she had to amputate the future merely tells you she is not omnipotent in the literal sense of the word. Jean Grey is not the supreme being so of course she has limits. 😕 Just like the Living Tribunal had to seal away Korvac because his judgement had failed. Limits are only non-existent for one being. She does however still have the best feats in Marvel. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As for where it’s stated that the universe was separated from the rest of the multiverse, it is stated by the Consciousness during this repair process that this orphan universe had lost its parents, it had become separated from the megasystems. Ive posted the scans enough times for you to get hold of them. It’s about time you did some research anyway.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats rich coming from the guy who has posted the exact same question in multiple threads despite the answer being posted repeatedly. Lazy? ✅

If you can’t be bothered to read the content of a thread then have a think about whether you should actually bother to post your stance in a thread.

The only difference now is that someone is doing the exact same thing but against the Phoenix.

Why post? Because you keep trying to present things as if you're the voice of Marvel.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Just like it’s only your opinion that she does have to go through the process which is odd considering her power level and:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Considering that her physical form has been fatally wounded and shes regenerated instantly,

that she can and has shrugged off far greater attacks from far more powerful beings without being harmed because it was her wish to do so,

that after she committed suicide on the moon as depicted in Excalibur 52 she lingered around watching events before going about her business

Jean manifests where and when she is needed.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The universal manifestation of the Phoenix Force which the bio refers to was shattered and reconstituted, there was no mention or depiction of the Consciousness as a whole being involved therefore your point ultimately is irrelevant. Big Deal. None of that changes the fact that Phoenix has the best feats in Marvel or takes away from the Forces role and status in comics. Just like how Spectre being manipulated by Alex Luthor or LT having his manifestation destroyed by Reed Richards (Last Planet Standing) or consumed in Marvel The End doesn’t take away from theirs. 🙁

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Handbook doesn’t say that Phoenix was born of the Big Bang. It says it was reborn. The writers stating that it was of the Big Bang well that is discounted by a variety of on panel accounts which state that the Phoenix IS the Big Bang while at the same time it is the brains behind the cycle.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It sparks it off which is in line with their being a Phoenix manifestation at a universal level and simultaneously a Phoenix in the White Hot Room.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The difference here is that I can discount the handbook writers’ words with many contrary on panel accounts, the I Being being multiversal is discounted many a time both on panel and the handbook entry just adds further weight to the notion. See the difference? Cool. 😱

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The act of cutting away the entire future is a very impressive feat and demonstrates Jeans power over the time/space axis. The disregard shown by Jean for the consequences brought about by the completion of her task (the fatal wounding of the universe) and the fact that one of the other avatars said that he wouldn’t bother fixing 616 tells you that ultimately the fate of any single reality is unimportant to the Phoenix Force. Its duties extend beyond any one reality.

Jean saying she had to amputate the future merely tells you she is not omnipotent in the literal sense of the word. Jean Grey is not the supreme being so of course she has limits. 😕 Just like the Living Tribunal had to seal away Korvac because his judgement had failed. Limits are only non-existent for one being. She does however still have the best feats in Marvel. 🙂

As for where it’s stated that the universe was separated from the rest of the multiverse, it is stated by the Consciousness during this repair process that this orphan universe had lost its parents, it had become separated from the megasystems. Ive posted the scans enough times for you to get hold of them. It’s about time you did some research anyway.

So it seems that Marvel's creation is so convoluted and retconned so many times people can basically take whichever and run with it however they want. That's what I get out of this.

Originally posted by Juntai
So it seems that Marvel's creation is so convoluted and retconned so many times people can basically take whichever and run with it however they want. That's what I get out of this.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Classic IG makes you A God. It didnt turn you into the supreme being. LTs confrontation with the IG proved that. In accordance with TOAA's will LT stood up against the IG. The IG just made you very powerful.

It turned you into the Supreme Being of the reality on which you choose, and gave you access to other realities. It does make you God..God of your universe and as many universes as you aim to claim, as Thanos stated himself.

Living Tribunal is beyond God. He is beyond any God that exists, other than TOAA. I think your problem is that you equate God with Supreme Being, and Supreme Being with being multiversal.

Obviously TOAA is the top power at Marvel, and so far no one is above that being, other than possibly Classic Beyonder, otherwise no one. True...not even IG or LT.

However, just because TOAA is the top power of Marvel's Existance does not make him "God". TOAA is not worshipped by anyone, he does not directly dominate any reality, nor are that many beings even aware of existance. He/She just has the most authority so far....there are many definitions of "God", FYI, and IG fits more of those definitions than does TOAA.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Having the ability to affect another reality other than your own, other than that which your power is derived from does NOT equate to being multiversal. Multiversal is the ability to affect every reality of the multiverse simultaneously. Being able to affect another reality doesnt dispute a universal status.

Being able to affect another reality DOES dispute universal. If you have a universal power, than your power only extends to ONE Universe. If it extends to MORE than one universe, than you are more than just a universal force.

Your definition of multiversal is the first definition like that, that I have heard. Many on these forums define Multiversal as being able to affect several universes.

Living Tribunal is no doubt multiversal, yet he hasn't manipulated every universe in existance at the same time, as to my knowledge.

Lucifer and Micheal are multiversal, yet they have not affected every single universe in existance.

Asteroth from Stormbreaker is multiversal, yet she only affected one universe at that time. However, she claimed to have been able to consume multiversal, megaverses, and even the omniversal.

galactic storm didnt you say that the LT thought he wouldnt be able to defeat the IG?

Originally posted by Mider
galactic storm didnt you say that the LT thought he wouldnt be able to defeat the IG?

When it's convenient the IG is below LT, but when the thread involves LT and his Feats you get this, "as aformationed LT did not conclusively show superiority to the IG the depiction of blahblah

This is called selective interpretations.

stops at 2

Originally posted by hulkrulz
stops at 2

I say that Lucifer could take Spectre since in sandman, spectre stated lucifer is above him. That and that Lucifer is most favored by God, so spectre getting approval isn't happening. Lucifer is known for outsmarting his foes, He'll get pretty far on the list.

oh come on mr masters you interpret stuff in your own way as well such as multi death no proof that she even exists or solid proof that she was the reason korvac didnt die cause of the LT you say she was but it never was solidly stated she was, but i wanna see the scans galactis storm had where LT said with his mouth i might not take the IG

Originally posted by Mider
oh come on mr masters you interpret stuff in your own way as well such as multi death no proof that she even exists

Atleast I make an interpretation and stick by it.
Not change my opinion on an issue when it suits my arguement at the moment.
Then contradict myself on the next arguement by changing my opinion again.

I have no proof there's a Multi-Death?

meh, an oldi but goodi.



So much for no proof.

Originally posted by Mider
or solid proof that she was the reason korvac didnt die cause of the LT you say she was but it never was solidly stated she was,

It was Death that protected Korvac from LT, from annihilation, how? Death simply didn't permit Korvac to die. How? It's Death, just like Thanos isn't fazed by mortality because of Death, so she did the same for Korvac.

Death was Korvac's unbidden ally-Death was Korvac's unwanted master.

Death manipulated all this, no wonder Korvac survived LT's punishment,

Death who is the master of mortality and immortality, she did not allow Korvac to die along with the earth, because Death wanted to kill Eternity

and Death knew it could get Korvac to retrieve the Ultimate Nullifier to destroy Eternity, this was Death's plan all along.

Apparently even Death was unable to help Korvac withstand the UN though.
The UN doesn't just kill, it nullifies.

Originally posted by Mider
but i wanna see the scans galactis storm had where LT said with his mouth i might not take the IG

Yea me too...though I know that doesn't exist.